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RE: [dundee-history] Cludgie

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  • Charlotte Juarez
    Michael and all, this is Charlotte from Phoenix, originally from the top of the hill. I have a tone of family clippings and stories that I ve written for my so
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
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      Michael and all, this is Charlotte from Phoenix, originally from the top of the hill. I have a tone of family clippings and stories that I've written for my so sadly "Americanized" children so they know they're "from Dundee and proud of it."  These little stories are about growing up from about the time I was born (1947) until I left Dundee in 1965 when I married a lad from Edzell.  My granny's granny used to own the fish shop and the china shop at the top of the hill and owned a little white horse that was well known.  Lots of memories and pictures of going to Hill Street School and then Butterburn and spending my childhood days hanging out at the Palace (where my granny worked in the box office) with the chorus girls, the cleaning ladies, and the comedians.  If you'd like to know more about these, please feel free to email me at jeatsax1@...
      best, Charl



      To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
      From: m.d.bolik@...
      Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 16:37:20 +0100
      Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Cludgie

      Well, though being brought up in Dundee I can't comment on "cludgie" v "lavy" - my father was Polish and my mother English.

      But I remember using the word "cundie" for a drain - no doubt a result of the "Auld Alliance" between Scotland and France - i.e. "conduit." It is like the expresion "dinna fash", which is French in origin and which means "Don't fret!"

      I am not ancient (well, some would say that I am!) but I remember in the 1960s when I was a young boy the rag and bone man would come around with his horse and cart and we'd take stuff to him and get transfers and scraps. I also remember the man coming around to light the gas street lamps outside. This was at my aunt and uncle's flat in Marryat Terrace. With my parents I lived in a tenement in Fintry - then Fingarth Street - now called Grampian Gardens. It's strange how you remember the past - for me everything was wonderful and happy, even though it turned out my parents were anxious to leave Fintry because it was turning into the worst part of Dundee (though soon to be superseded by the newly built Whitfield estate).

      Wow - those were the early days of tv, with Z Cars, the first Dr Who series, the Beatles, Crackerjack, Tales from Europe...

      It has struck me over this discussion about cludgies etc that there is a lot or history out there in our minds and memories. It is a shame it isn't written down or recorded somewhere. I work in an archive where we save the "memory" of Dundee. I would be happy to receive any memories people have and keep them for the future in our archive.

      On a different theme I went to the new Morrison's store on Saturday. They are using three photographs from the University archives, which I remember giving to the media company looking for images of Dundee for the new store. There are also current images and some from the Central Library. Ours are of the Law, looking very bare, a factory worker at Dens Works in the 1950s, and the first Tay Bridge, looking from Wormit.

      Ok. Enough of me - hope I didn't bore you too much. But I mean it about collecting anecdotes, such as the one about the conditions post war veterans faced re housing etc.

      Please let me know what you think...

      Michael

      The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No: SC015096



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    • Charlotte Juarez
      Now here I am after reading these enlightening emails trying to recall all the names I ve heard that place of great relief called -- how about the bog ? In
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
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        Now here I am after reading these enlightening emails trying to recall all the names I've heard that place of great relief called -- how about the "bog"?  In the trains (remember the joy of riding in one with a corridor) that had a W.C. -- (my Granny told me stories all my life and when I first saw this I knew my letters and how to spell, and wondered what Winston Churchill had to do with it).  And can "cludge" be any worse that here in America where grown and men and women talk about "little girls/boys room" - makes you wonder what they do in there. Best to all/Charlotte


        To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
        From: banjo046@...
        Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:03:00 +0000
        Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Cludgie

        The word cludgie is not used in Dundee, but is used in Glasgow and it is a
        drain in the street. In Dundee this is called a Cundy. The name for the
        toilet inside or outside is the Lavy. Pronounced Lah vy.
        Dave

        From: "parkneuk1940" <genehunter@hotmail. co.uk>
        Reply-To: dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com
        To: dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [dundee-history] Cludgie
        Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:21:49 -0000

        A cludgie is a toilet, outside in days gone by, with neatly cut
        newspaper on a string, if you were lucky.

        Kathleen.

        --- In dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com, "knowlesdavina"
        <knowlesdavina@ ...> wrote:
        > . Anybody know what a cludgie is? I get a mental picture of an open
        > drain or sewer?
        > Ina




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      • Lair Behr
        OK, so how did the term cludgie derive?
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
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          OK, so how did the term "cludgie" derive?
        • Peter Marshall
          ... , Lair Behr wrote: ... Having started this strand, I guess I had better finish it. DSL - SNDS
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
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            --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com, Lair Behr <danifax@...> wrote:>

            > OK, so how did the term "cludgie" derive?
            >
            Having started this strand, I guess I had better finish it. 


             DSL - SNDS      CLUDGIE , n. A slang term for a water-closet (Fif., Edb., wm.Sc. 1975).
                 [Deformation of closet, poss. conflated with lodge.]         given in       The Dictionary of the Scots Language [DSL] and Scottish National Dictionary Supplement [SNDS] which were recently electronically linked through Dundee University and can be found at
            http://www.dsl.ac.uk/


            This indicates Fife, Edinburgh and West Central Scotland sources.  However, it is not surprising that Dundee is not mentioned for the following reason.   Frustratingly, it was only in the 2005 supplement that the DSL organisers started to note Dundee as an independent geographical location!   As they put it :"have added Dundee to the list of geographical labels, in view of the distinctive character of the Scots of that city"  - better late than never, I suppose.     Even so, I think that calling it slang is probably a bit rich, since it was obviously mainstream language for some. 

            My source was my father-in-law, who was sibling to the unfortunate child whom he was told had 'drowned in the cludgie' where he was born in Dallfield Walk.  He spent his youth in Westhall Place in Craigie, then his married life in Menzieshill. 

            Peter

             

             

             

             


             

          • Robin Fosdal
            I remember, at school, offering the word cludge as an example of onomatopoeia. Needless to say, I got the strap. ... Edb., ... given in
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
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              I remember, at school, offering the word "cludge" as an example of
              onomatopoeia. Needless to say, I got the strap.



              --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Marshall"
              <tis_peter@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:dundee-history@yahoogroups.com> , Lair Behr <danifax@>
              > wrote:>
              > > OK, so how did the term "cludgie" derive?
              > >
              > Having started this strand, I guess I had better finish it.
              >
              >
              > DSL - SNDS CLUDGIE, n. A slang term for a water-closet (Fif.,
              Edb.,
              > wm.Sc. 1975).
              > [Deformation of closet, poss. conflated with lodge.]
              given in
              > The Dictionary of the Scots Language [DSL] and Scottish National
              > Dictionary Supplement [SNDS] which were recently electronically linked
              > through Dundee University and can be found at
              > http://www.dsl.ac.uk/ <http://www.dsl.ac.uk/>
              >
              >
              > This indicates Fife, Edinburgh and West Central Scotland sources.
              > However, it is not surprising that Dundee is not mentioned for the
              > following reason. Frustratingly, it was only in the 2005 supplement
              > that the DSL organisers started to note Dundee as an independent
              > geographical location! As they put it :"have added Dundee to the list
              > of geographical labels, in view of the distinctive character of the
              > Scots of that city" - better late than never, I suppose. Even so, I
              > think that calling it slang is probably a bit rich, since it was
              > obviously mainstream language for some.
              >
              > My source was my father-in-law, who was sibling to the unfortunate child
              > whom he was told had 'drowned in the cludgie' where he was born in
              > Dallfield Walk. He spent his youth in Westhall Place in Craigie, then
              > his married life in Menzieshill.
              >
              > Peter
              >
            • Michael Bolik
              Hi Group members might be interested in our new blog entry about G L Wilson s store The Corner : http://www.archives-records-artefacts.com/ At the bottom of
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 15, 2011
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                Hi

                Group members might be interested in our new blog entry about G L Wilson's store "The Corner":

                http://www.archives-records-artefacts.com/

                At the bottom of the article is a link to some pages from G L Wilson Christmas catalogues. Just in case you miss it, here is the link:

                http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives/glwilsonchristmascatalogues.htm

                One catalogue page is devoted to toy guns, soldiers etc - "Let your children fight their country's battles over again" and rather ominously it was from December 1914. We were wondering if any of the children found themselves, four years later, stuck in the middle of a real battle...

                Michael


                Michael Bolik
                Senior Assistant Archivist
                Archive Services
                University of Dundee
                Dundee DD1 4HN
                United Kingdom
                tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
                fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
                http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives



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                The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No: SC015096
              • Anne Ide
                My late aunt had a friend who worked in the gents department of GL Wilson s.   One market day, an elderly farmer came into the shop, looked at her
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 23, 2011
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                  My late aunt had a friend who worked in the gents' department of GL Wilson's.
                   
                  One market day, an elderly farmer came into the shop, looked at her doubtfully, then said gruffly,
                   
                  "See's a sicht o' yer drahers, lassie"
                   
                  It took a panic-stricken moment for the aforesaid assistant to realise she was being asked, not to display her lingerie, but to produce examples from the store's stock of long gents' underpants! 
                   
                  From: Michael Bolik <m.d.bolik@...>
                  To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2011, 23:21
                  Subject: [dundee-history] G L Wilson store

                   
                  Hi

                  Group members might be interested in our new blog entry about G L Wilson's store "The Corner":

                  http://www.archives-records-artefacts.com/

                  At the bottom of the article is a link to some pages from G L Wilson Christmas catalogues. Just in case you miss it, here is the link:

                  http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives/glwilsonchristmascatalogues.htm

                  One catalogue page is devoted to toy guns, soldiers etc - "Let your children fight their country's battles over again" and rather ominously it was from December 1914. We were wondering if any of the children found themselves, four years later, stuck in the middle of a real battle...

                  Michael

                  Michael Bolik
                  Senior Assistant Archivist
                  Archive Services
                  University of Dundee
                  Dundee DD1 4HN
                  United Kingdom
                  tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
                  fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
                  http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives

                  ************************************************************
                  Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email?

                  The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No: SC015096


                • David Perks
                  That must have been on Tuesday To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com From: anne_ide2003@yahoo.co.uk Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 19:17:45 +0000 Subject: Re:
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 23, 2011
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                    That must have been on Tuesday
                     

                    To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                    From: anne_ide2003@...
                    Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 19:17:45 +0000
                    Subject: Re: [dundee-history] G L Wilson store

                     
                    My late aunt had a friend who worked in the gents' department of GL Wilson's.
                     
                    One market day, an elderly farmer came into the shop, looked at her doubtfully, then said gruffly,
                     
                    "See's a sicht o' yer drahers, lassie"
                     
                    It took a panic-stricken moment for the aforesaid assistant to realise she was being asked, not to display her lingerie, but to produce examples from the store's stock of long gents' underpants! 
                     
                    From: Michael Bolik <m.d.bolik@...>
                    To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2011, 23:21
                    Subject: [dundee-history] G L Wilson store

                     
                    Hi

                    Group members might be interested in our new blog entry about G L Wilson's store "The Corner":

                    http://www.archives-records-artefacts.com/

                    At the bottom of the article is a link to some pages from G L Wilson Christmas catalogues. Just in case you miss it, here is the link:

                    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives/glwilsonchristmascatalogues.htm

                    One catalogue page is devoted to toy guns, soldiers etc - "Let your children fight their country's battles over again" and rather ominously it was from December 1914. We were wondering if any of the children found themselves, four years later, stuck in the middle of a real battle...

                    Michael

                    Michael Bolik
                    Senior Assistant Archivist
                    Archive Services
                    University of Dundee
                    Dundee DD1 4HN
                    United Kingdom
                    tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
                    fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
                    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives

                    ************************************************************
                    Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email?

                    The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No: SC015096



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