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Dallfield Walk drowning

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  • Peter Marshall
    In 1923, a child of 11 months who lived at 4 Dallfield Walk died of `asphyxia at number 3. Family lore says he `fell in the cludgie and drowned . I am trying
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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      In 1923, a child of 11 months who lived at 4 Dallfield Walk died
      of `asphyxia' at number 3. Family lore says he `fell in the cludgie
      and drowned'.
      I am trying to find out a bit about Dallfield Walk.
      Is there anyone who can tell what it was like there? I guess that it
      was the kind of place where there would be a close community formed?

      I have looked at the one dundeecity `photopolis' picture at
      http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/photopolis/Archives7.htm
      but cannot be sure where this was taken from. Is it from near the top,
      looking downhill at the backs of the side nearer Hilltown [east side]?
      I am especially interested in the low numbers around 3 and 4. Were
      they at the bottom end? And were they next to one another or on
      opposite sides in the 1920s?

      If anyone has memories or pictures of life in Dallfield Walk, I would
      be delighted to hear.
      Thanks
      Peter Marshall
    • Michael Bolik
      Dear Peter This is an interesting question. Dallfield Walk no longer exists. Apparently it was off Dudhope Street - so probably it was destroyed when the
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Peter

        This is an interesting question. Dallfield Walk no longer exists. Apparently it was off Dudhope Street - so probably it was destroyed when the multi-storey blocks at the bottom of the Hilltown were built.

        I had a look at some Dundee Directories from that period. Although we have the one for 1923-24 there are no names given for the lower numbers. Nor in other directories from that period - though in 1926-27 the occupant of no. 3 was one Henry Bruce, a broker.

        All we have in our own collection that refers to Dallfield is:

        "Miscellaneous writs mainly relating to lands of Dallfield and lands in Hilltown, Dundee belonging to the Stirling family. 1760-1820."

        Probably best if you contact the Dundee City Archives and the Local History Centre - their web addresses:

        http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/archive/

        http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/loc_stud.htm

        Michael




        Michael Bolik
        Assistant Archivist
        Archive Services
        University of Dundee
        Dundee DD1 4HN
        tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
        fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
        www.dundee.ac.uk/archives

        >>> "Peter Marshall" <tis_peter@...> 02/06/2008 12:42 >>>
        In 1923, a child of 11 months who lived at 4 Dallfield Walk died
        of `asphyxia' at number 3. Family lore says he `fell in the cludgie
        and drowned'.
        I am trying to find out a bit about Dallfield Walk.
        Is there anyone who can tell what it was like there? I guess that it
        was the kind of place where there would be a close community formed?

        I have looked at the one dundeecity `photopolis' picture at
        http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/photopolis/Archives7.htm
        but cannot be sure where this was taken from. Is it from near the top,
        looking downhill at the backs of the side nearer Hilltown [east side]?
        I am especially interested in the low numbers around 3 and 4. Were
        they at the bottom end? And were they next to one another or on
        opposite sides in the 1920s?

        If anyone has memories or pictures of life in Dallfield Walk, I would
        be delighted to hear.
        Thanks
        Peter Marshall



        ------------------------------------

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        The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No: SC015096
      • David Perks
        From: Michael Bolik Reply-To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com To: Subject: Re: [dundee-history]
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          From: "Michael Bolik" <m.d.bolik@...>
          Reply-To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
          To: <dundee-history@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [dundee-history] Dallfield Walk drowning
          Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:30:58 +0100

          Dear Peter

          This is an interesting question. Dallfield Walk no longer exists. Apparently
          it was off Dudhope Street - so probably it was destroyed when the
          multi-storey blocks at the bottom of the Hilltown were built.

          I had a look at some Dundee Directories from that period. Although we have
          the one for 1923-24 there are no names given for the lower numbers. Nor in
          other directories from that period - though in 1926-27 the occupant of no. 3
          was one Henry Bruce, a broker.

          All we have in our own collection that refers to Dallfield is:

          "Miscellaneous writs mainly relating to lands of Dallfield and lands in
          Hilltown, Dundee belonging to the Stirling family. 1760-1820."

          Probably best if you contact the Dundee City Archives and the Local History
          Centre - their web addresses:

          http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/archive/

          http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/loc_stud.htm

          Michael




          Michael Bolik
          Assistant Archivist
          Archive Services
          University of Dundee
          Dundee DD1 4HN
          tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
          fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
          www.dundee.ac.uk/archives

          >>> "Peter Marshall" <tis_peter@...> 02/06/2008 12:42 >>>
          In 1923, a child of 11 months who lived at 4 Dallfield Walk died
          of `asphyxia' at number 3. Family lore says he `fell in the cludgie
          and drowned'.
          I am trying to find out a bit about Dallfield Walk.
          Is there anyone who can tell what it was like there? I guess that it
          was the kind of place where there would be a close community formed?

          I have looked at the one dundeecity `photopolis' picture at
          http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/photopolis/Archives7.htm
          but cannot be sure where this was taken from. Is it from near the top,
          looking downhill at the backs of the side nearer Hilltown [east side]?
          I am especially interested in the low numbers around 3 and 4. Were
          they at the bottom end? And were they next to one another or on
          opposite sides in the 1920s?

          If anyone has memories or pictures of life in Dallfield Walk, I would
          be delighted to hear.
          Thanks
          Peter Marshall



          ------------------------------------

          Please remember to bookmark our Home Page. Those with Yahoo IDs will be able
          to view our Archives of Messages,Files, and Bookmarks. Go to:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dundee-history


          Yahoo! Groups Links




          The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No: SC015096
        • Peter Marshall
          Michael Thanks for all the checking you have done. I am fascinated that you find Henry Bruce of 3 Dallfield Walk listed as a Broker in 1926-7. He was
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
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            Michael
            Thanks for all the checking you have done.
            I am fascinated that you find Henry Bruce of 3 Dallfield Walk listed
            as a 'Broker' in 1926-7. He was grandfather to the unfortunate
            toddler and had been living there from before 1914 to his death in
            1945. Henry was variously shown in documents as a Jute Batcher
            [1903, 1945] or a Dock Labourer [1914, 1937], so I am surprised at
            this 'Broker' occupation. It seems odd. I wonder what he was
            brokering?
            Or perhaps that is a question best not asked!

            Thanks again
            Peter
            .........................
            "Michael Bolik" <m.d.bolik@...> wrote:
            Dear Peter
            > This is an interesting question. Dallfield Walk no longer exists.
            Apparently it was off Dudhope Street - so probably it was destroyed
            when the multi-storey blocks at the bottom of the Hilltown were built.
            >
            > I had a look at some Dundee Directories from that period. Although
            we have the one for 1923-24 there are no names given for the lower
            numbers. Nor in other directories from that period - though in 1926-
            27 the occupant of no. 3 was one Henry Bruce, a broker.
            >
            > All we have in our own collection that refers to Dallfield is:
            > "Miscellaneous writs mainly relating to lands of Dallfield and
            lands in Hilltown, Dundee belonging to the Stirling family. 1760-
            1820."
            > Probably best if you contact the Dundee City Archives and the Local
            History Centre - their web addresses:
            > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/archive/
            > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/loc_stud.htm
            >
            > Michael Bolik
            > Assistant Archivist
            > Archive Services
            > University of Dundee
            > Dundee DD1 4HN
            > tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
            > fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
            > www.dundee.ac.uk/archives
            The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No:
            SC015096
            ......................................
            >"Peter Marshall" <tis_peter@...> 02/06/2008 12:42
            In 1923, a child of 11 months who lived at 4 Dallfield Walk died of
            `asphyxia' at number 3. Family lore says he `fell in the cludgie and
            drowned'.
            > I am trying to find out a bit about Dallfield Walk.
            > Is there anyone who can tell what it was like there? I guess that
            it was the kind of place where there would be a close community
            formed?
            > > I have looked at the one dundeecity `photopolis' picture at
            http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/photopolis/Archives7.htm but
            cannot be sure where this was taken from. Is it from near the top,
            looking downhill at the backs of the side nearer Hilltown [east
            side]?
            > I am especially interested in the low numbers around 3 and 4. Were
            > they at the bottom end? And were they next to one another or on
            > opposite sides in the 1920s?
            >
            > If anyone has memories or pictures of life in Dallfield Walk, I
            would be delighted to hear.
            > Thanks
            > Peter Marshall
          • David Perks
            Anyone selling second hand goods was called a broker. In 1945 the store was used for selling second hand goods. In fact I can remember buying an oil lamp
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
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              Anyone selling second hand goods was called a broker. In 1945 the store was
              used for selling second hand goods. In fact I can remember buying an oil
              lamp there. Unfortunately I can not remember who actually sold to me.
              Dave

              Michael
              Thanks for all the checking you have done.
              I am fascinated that you find Henry Bruce of 3 Dallfield Walk listed
              as a 'Broker' in 1926-7. He was grandfather to the unfortunate
              toddler and had been living there from before 1914 to his death in
              1945. Henry was variously shown in documents as a Jute Batcher
              [1903, 1945] or a Dock Labourer [1914, 1937], so I am surprised at
              this 'Broker' occupation. It seems odd. I wonder what he was
              brokering?
              Or perhaps that is a question best not asked!

              Thanks again
              Peter
              .........................
              "Michael Bolik" <m.d.bolik@...> wrote:
              Dear Peter
              > This is an interesting question. Dallfield Walk no longer exists.
              Apparently it was off Dudhope Street - so probably it was destroyed
              when the multi-storey blocks at the bottom of the Hilltown were built.
              >
              > I had a look at some Dundee Directories from that period. Although
              we have the one for 1923-24 there are no names given for the lower
              numbers. Nor in other directories from that period - though in 1926-
              27 the occupant of no. 3 was one Henry Bruce, a broker.
              >
              > All we have in our own collection that refers to Dallfield is:
              > "Miscellaneous writs mainly relating to lands of Dallfield and
              lands in Hilltown, Dundee belonging to the Stirling family. 1760-
              1820."
              > Probably best if you contact the Dundee City Archives and the Local
              History Centre - their web addresses:
              > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/archive/
              > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/loc_stud.htm
              >
              > Michael Bolik
              > Assistant Archivist
              > Archive Services
              > University of Dundee
              > Dundee DD1 4HN
              > tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
              > fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
              > www.dundee.ac.uk/archives
              The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No:
              SC015096
              ......................................
              >"Peter Marshall" <tis_peter@...> 02/06/2008 12:42
              In 1923, a child of 11 months who lived at 4 Dallfield Walk died of
              `asphyxia' at number 3. Family lore says he `fell in the cludgie and
              drowned'.
              > I am trying to find out a bit about Dallfield Walk.
              > Is there anyone who can tell what it was like there? I guess that
              it was the kind of place where there would be a close community
              formed?
              > > I have looked at the one dundeecity `photopolis' picture at
              http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/photopolis/Archives7.htm but
              cannot be sure where this was taken from. Is it from near the top,
              looking downhill at the backs of the side nearer Hilltown [east
              side]?
              > I am especially interested in the low numbers around 3 and 4. Were
              > they at the bottom end? And were they next to one another or on
              > opposite sides in the 1920s?
              >
              > If anyone has memories or pictures of life in Dallfield Walk, I
              would be delighted to hear.
              > Thanks
              > Peter Marshall
            • David Perks
              Peter, I should have mentioned that number 3 dallfied Walk was demolished in the late 1960s. Dave
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
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                Peter, I should have mentioned that number 3 dallfied Walk was demolished in
                the late 1960s.
                Dave
              • Peter Marshall
                Dave Was it just the one shop there? A full depth shop, or just a converted front room ? Was it right at the bottom of Dallfield Walk where it met Dudhope
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
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                  Dave
                  Was it just the one shop there?
                  A full depth shop, or just a converted 'front room'?
                  Was it right at the bottom of Dallfield Walk where it met Dudhope
                  Street?
                  Any memories of the general area would be greatly appreciated too.
                  Thanks
                  Peter

                  ...........................................
                  "David Perks" <banjo046@...> wrote:
                  > Anyone selling second hand goods was called a broker. In 1945 the
                  store was used for selling second hand goods. In fact I can remember
                  buying an oil lamp there. Unfortunately I can not remember who
                  actually sold to me.
                  > Dave
                  ...................................
                  > Michael
                  > Thanks for all the checking you have done.
                  > I am fascinated that you find Henry Bruce of 3 Dallfield Walk listed
                  > as a 'Broker' in 1926-7. He was grandfather to the unfortunate
                  > toddler and had been living there from before 1914 to his death in
                  > 1945. Henry was variously shown in documents as a Jute Batcher
                  > [1903, 1945] or a Dock Labourer [1914, 1937], so I am surprised at
                  > this 'Broker' occupation. It seems odd. I wonder what he was
                  > brokering?
                  > Or perhaps that is a question best not asked!
                  >
                  > Thanks again
                  > Peter
                  > .........................
                  > "Michael Bolik" <m.d.bolik@> wrote:
                  > Dear Peter
                  > > This is an interesting question. Dallfield Walk no longer exists.
                  > Apparently it was off Dudhope Street - so probably it was destroyed
                  > when the multi-storey blocks at the bottom of the Hilltown were
                  built.
                  I had a look at some Dundee Directories from that period. Although
                  we have the one for 1923-24 there are no names given for the lower
                  numbers. Nor in other directories from that period - though in 1926-
                  > 27 the occupant of no. 3 was one Henry Bruce, a broker.
                  > >
                  > > All we have in our own collection that refers to Dallfield is:
                  > > "Miscellaneous writs mainly relating to lands of Dallfield and
                  > lands in Hilltown, Dundee belonging to the Stirling family. 1760-
                  > 1820."
                  > > Probably best if you contact the Dundee City Archives and the
                  Local
                  > History Centre - their web addresses:
                  > > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/archive/
                  > > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/loc_stud.htm
                  > > Michael Bolik
                  > > Assistant Archivist
                  > > Archive Services
                  > > University of Dundee
                  > > Dundee DD1 4HN
                  > > tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
                  > > fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
                  > > www.dundee.ac.uk/archives
                  > The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No:
                  > SC015096
                  > ......................................
                  > >"Peter Marshall" <tis_peter@> 02/06/2008 12:42
                  > In 1923, a child of 11 months who lived at 4 Dallfield Walk died of
                  `asphyxia' at number 3. Family lore says he `fell in the cludgie and
                  drowned'.
                  > > I am trying to find out a bit about Dallfield Walk.
                  Is there anyone who can tell what it was like there? I guess that
                  it was the kind of place where there would be a close community
                  formed?
                  > > > I have looked at the one dundeecity `photopolis' picture at
                  > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/photopolis/Archives7.htm but
                  > cannot be sure where this was taken from. Is it from near the top,
                  > looking downhill at the backs of the side nearer Hilltown [east
                  > side]?
                  >I am especially interested in the low numbers around 3 and 4. Were
                  >they at the bottom end? And were they next to one another or on
                  opposite sides in the 1920s?
                  > >
                  > > If anyone has memories or pictures of life in Dallfield Walk, I
                  > would be delighted to hear.
                  > > Thanks
                  > > Peter Marshall
                  >
                • David Perks
                  Peter there was just the one shop. Number one had been demolished long before my time. Number 3 was a full sized shop which was part of the two story tenement
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
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                    Peter there was just the one shop. Number one had been demolished long
                    before my time. Number 3 was a full sized shop which was part of the two
                    story tenement building. Up until the late 1940s very few people moved house
                    because there were very few houses other than condemed properties to move
                    to. The service men coming home from the war had no houses to go to so they
                    Squated in the old condemed properties. These condemed houses had no water,
                    no electric or gas therfor no toilet facilities. Primus stoves were used for
                    cooking and candles and oil lamps for ilumination. When one partner left the
                    house the other had to stay home for fear that if the house was unoccupied
                    another family would move in and there was no way to reclaim the house. The
                    house factors were making a killing at this time by charging new tenants who
                    were lucky enough to find an uncondemed house to rent. Bribery was rife at
                    this time. I could go on and tell you lots of stories about the life of the
                    people living in Dundee, but I would probably be censured. If you want more
                    info. you may contact me at banjo046@...
                    Cheers Dave


                    Dave
                    Was it just the one shop there?
                    A full depth shop, or just a converted 'front room'?
                    Was it right at the bottom of Dallfield Walk where it met Dudhope
                    Street?
                    Any memories of the general area would be greatly appreciated too.
                    Thanks
                    Peter

                    ...........................................
                    "David Perks" <banjo046@...> wrote:
                    > Anyone selling second hand goods was called a broker. In 1945 the
                    store was used for selling second hand goods. In fact I can remember
                    buying an oil lamp there. Unfortunately I can not remember who
                    actually sold to me.
                    > Dave
                    ...................................
                    > Michael
                    > Thanks for all the checking you have done.
                    > I am fascinated that you find Henry Bruce of 3 Dallfield Walk listed
                    > as a 'Broker' in 1926-7. He was grandfather to the unfortunate
                    > toddler and had been living there from before 1914 to his death in
                    > 1945. Henry was variously shown in documents as a Jute Batcher
                    > [1903, 1945] or a Dock Labourer [1914, 1937], so I am surprised at
                    > this 'Broker' occupation. It seems odd. I wonder what he was
                    > brokering?
                    > Or perhaps that is a question best not asked!
                    >
                    > Thanks again
                    > Peter
                    > .........................
                    > "Michael Bolik" <m.d.bolik@> wrote:
                    > Dear Peter
                    > > This is an interesting question. Dallfield Walk no longer exists.
                    > Apparently it was off Dudhope Street - so probably it was destroyed
                    > when the multi-storey blocks at the bottom of the Hilltown were
                    built.
                    I had a look at some Dundee Directories from that period. Although
                    we have the one for 1923-24 there are no names given for the lower
                    numbers. Nor in other directories from that period - though in 1926-
                    > 27 the occupant of no. 3 was one Henry Bruce, a broker.
                    > >
                    > > All we have in our own collection that refers to Dallfield is:
                    > > "Miscellaneous writs mainly relating to lands of Dallfield and
                    > lands in Hilltown, Dundee belonging to the Stirling family. 1760-
                    > 1820."
                    > > Probably best if you contact the Dundee City Archives and the
                    Local
                    > History Centre - their web addresses:
                    > > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/archive/
                    > > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/loc_stud.htm
                    > > Michael Bolik
                    > > Assistant Archivist
                    > > Archive Services
                    > > University of Dundee
                    > > Dundee DD1 4HN
                    > > tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
                    > > fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
                    > > www.dundee.ac.uk/archives
                    > The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No:
                    > SC015096
                    > ......................................
                    > >"Peter Marshall" <tis_peter@> 02/06/2008 12:42
                    > In 1923, a child of 11 months who lived at 4 Dallfield Walk died of
                    `asphyxia' at number 3. Family lore says he `fell in the cludgie and
                    drowned'.
                    > > I am trying to find out a bit about Dallfield Walk.
                    Is there anyone who can tell what it was like there? I guess that
                    it was the kind of place where there would be a close community
                    formed?
                    > > > I have looked at the one dundeecity `photopolis' picture at
                    > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/photopolis/Archives7.htm but
                    > cannot be sure where this was taken from. Is it from near the top,
                    > looking downhill at the backs of the side nearer Hilltown [east
                    > side]?
                    >I am especially interested in the low numbers around 3 and 4. Were
                    >they at the bottom end? And were they next to one another or on
                    opposite sides in the 1920s?
                    > >
                    > > If anyone has memories or pictures of life in Dallfield Walk, I
                    > would be delighted to hear.
                    > > Thanks
                    > > Peter Marshall
                    >
                  • knowlesdavina
                    ... long ... the two ... moved house ... to move ... to so they ... no water, ... were used for ... partner left the ... unoccupied ... house. The ... tenants
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 6, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com, "David Perks" <banjo046@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Peter there was just the one shop. Number one had been demolished
                      long
                      > before my time. Number 3 was a full sized shop which was part of
                      the two
                      > story tenement building. Up until the late 1940s very few people
                      moved house
                      > because there were very few houses other than condemed properties
                      to move
                      > to. The service men coming home from the war had no houses to go
                      to so they
                      > Squated in the old condemed properties. These condemed houses had
                      no water,
                      > no electric or gas therfor no toilet facilities. Primus stoves
                      were used for
                      > cooking and candles and oil lamps for ilumination. When one
                      partner left the
                      > house the other had to stay home for fear that if the house was
                      unoccupied
                      > another family would move in and there was no way to reclaim the
                      house. The
                      > house factors were making a killing at this time by charging new
                      tenants who
                      > were lucky enough to find an uncondemed house to rent. Bribery was
                      rife at
                      > this time. I could go on and tell you lots of stories about the
                      life of the
                      > people living in Dundee, but I would probably be censured. If you
                      want more
                      > info. you may contact me at banjo046@...
                      > Cheers Dave
                      >
                      >
                      > Dave
                      > Was it just the one shop there?
                      > A full depth shop, or just a converted 'front room'?
                      > Was it right at the bottom of Dallfield Walk where it met Dudhope
                      > Street?
                      > Any memories of the general area would be greatly appreciated too.
                      > Thanks
                      > Peter
                      >
                      > ...........................................
                      > "David Perks" <banjo046@> wrote:
                      > > Anyone selling second hand goods was called a broker. In 1945
                      the
                      > store was used for selling second hand goods. In fact I can
                      remember
                      > buying an oil lamp there. Unfortunately I can not remember who
                      > actually sold to me.
                      > > Dave
                      > ...................................
                      > > Michael
                      > > Thanks for all the checking you have done.
                      > > I am fascinated that you find Henry Bruce of 3 Dallfield Walk
                      listed
                      > > as a 'Broker' in 1926-7. He was grandfather to the unfortunate
                      > > toddler and had been living there from before 1914 to his death
                      in
                      > > 1945. Henry was variously shown in documents as a Jute Batcher
                      > > [1903, 1945] or a Dock Labourer [1914, 1937], so I am surprised
                      at
                      > > this 'Broker' occupation. It seems odd. I wonder what he was
                      > > brokering?
                      > > Or perhaps that is a question best not asked!
                      > >
                      > > Thanks again
                      > > Peter
                      > > .........................
                      > > "Michael Bolik" <m.d.bolik@> wrote:
                      > > Dear Peter
                      > > > This is an interesting question. Dallfield Walk no longer
                      exists.
                      > > Apparently it was off Dudhope Street - so probably it was
                      destroyed
                      > > when the multi-storey blocks at the bottom of the Hilltown were
                      > built.
                      > I had a look at some Dundee Directories from that period. Although
                      > we have the one for 1923-24 there are no names given for the lower
                      > numbers. Nor in other directories from that period - though in
                      1926-
                      > > 27 the occupant of no. 3 was one Henry Bruce, a broker.
                      > > >
                      > > > All we have in our own collection that refers to Dallfield
                      is:
                      > > > "Miscellaneous writs mainly relating to lands of Dallfield
                      and
                      > > lands in Hilltown, Dundee belonging to the Stirling family.
                      1760-
                      > > 1820."
                      > > > Probably best if you contact the Dundee City Archives and the
                      > Local
                      > > History Centre - their web addresses:
                      > > > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/archive/
                      > > > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/loc_stud.htm
                      > > > Michael Bolik
                      > > > Assistant Archivist
                      > > > Archive Services
                      > > > University of Dundee
                      > > > Dundee DD1 4HN
                      > > > tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
                      > > > fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
                      > > > www.dundee.ac.uk/archives
                      > > The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No:
                      > > SC015096
                      > > ......................................
                      > > >"Peter Marshall" <tis_peter@> 02/06/2008 12:42
                      > > In 1923, a child of 11 months who lived at 4 Dallfield Walk
                      died of
                      > `asphyxia' at number 3. Family lore says he `fell in the cludgie
                      and
                      > drowned'.
                      > > > I am trying to find out a bit about Dallfield Walk.
                      > Is there anyone who can tell what it was like there? I guess
                      that
                      > it was the kind of place where there would be a close community
                      > formed?
                      > > > > I have looked at the one dundeecity `photopolis' picture at
                      > > http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/centlib/photopolis/Archives7.htm
                      but
                      > > cannot be sure where this was taken from. Is it from near the
                      top,
                      > > looking downhill at the backs of the side nearer Hilltown [east
                      > > side]?
                      > >I am especially interested in the low numbers around 3 and 4.
                      Were
                      > >they at the bottom end? And were they next to one another or on
                      > opposite sides in the 1920s?
                      > > >
                      > > > If anyone has memories or picture of life in Dallfield Walk,
                      I
                      > > would be delighted to hear.
                      > > > Thanks
                      > > > Peter Marshall
                      > >
                      truth should never be censured Dave print and be -----
                      . Anybody know what a cludgie is? I get a mental picture of an open
                      drain or sewer?
                      Ina
                      ?
                      >
                    • parkneuk1940
                      A cludgie is a toilet, outside in days gone by, with neatly cut newspaper on a string, if you were lucky. Kathleen.
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 6, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        A cludgie is a toilet, outside in days gone by, with neatly cut
                        newspaper on a string, if you were lucky.

                        Kathleen.

                        --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com, "knowlesdavina"
                        <knowlesdavina@...> wrote:
                        > . Anybody know what a cludgie is? I get a mental picture of an open
                        > drain or sewer?
                        > Ina
                      • Charlotte Juarez
                        Story about newspapers in cludges -- we were toffs in the little tenement at the foot of Hill Street (#7), right next to Hill Street School and above the
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 6, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Story about newspapers in "cludges" -- we were "toffs" in the little tenement at the foot of Hill Street (#7), right next to Hill Street School and above the sweetie shop because we had an indoor toilet and used both kinds of "toilet paper".  We were moved out to Symers Street, St Mary's, during the era of building the multi stories.  In 1965 I met (and married) a lad from the US Navy at Edzell.  The first night he stayed with us in courting days he came to me and asked, very shyly, about the squares of newspaper in the toilet (my Granny laid ours out without a string).  "Charlotte," he asked me, "I just have to ask a question.  How come your Granny saves big newspaper clippings in the toilet?  I tried reading them.  Some had interesting stories, most didn't.  But what was really strange, the interesting stories seemed to be torn out too.  These clippings ended real abruptly, and I can't find the rest of the story."  That was a laugh for all of us!  Hope you enjoy/Charlotte in Glendale, Arizona.


                          To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                          From: genehunter@...
                          Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 13:21:49 +0000
                          Subject: [dundee-history] Cludgie

                          A cludgie is a toilet, outside in days gone by, with neatly cut
                          newspaper on a string, if you were lucky.

                          Kathleen.

                          --- In dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com, "knowlesdavina"
                          <knowlesdavina@ ...> wrote:
                          > . Anybody know what a cludgie is? I get a mental picture of an open
                          > drain or sewer?
                          > Ina




                          Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Invite friends now!
                        • anne_ide2003
                          Have a memory from twenty-six years ago of my then three year old daughter at the Dundee Rep pantomime, demanding in a piercing voice, Gran, what s a
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 6, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Have a memory from twenty-six years ago of my then three year old
                            daughter at the Dundee Rep pantomime, demanding in a piercing
                            voice, "Gran, what's a cludgie?" in response to hearing the word spoken
                            on stage.
                            She doesn't much like being reminded of that one now!
                          • David Perks
                            The word cludgie is not used in Dundee, but is used in Glasgow and it is a drain in the street. In Dundee this is called a Cundy. The name for the toilet
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              The word cludgie is not used in Dundee, but is used in Glasgow and it is a
                              drain in the street. In Dundee this is called a Cundy. The name for the
                              toilet inside or outside is the Lavy. Pronounced Lah vy.
                              Dave


                              From: "parkneuk1940" <genehunter@...>
                              Reply-To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                              To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [dundee-history] Cludgie
                              Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:21:49 -0000

                              A cludgie is a toilet, outside in days gone by, with neatly cut
                              newspaper on a string, if you were lucky.

                              Kathleen.

                              --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com, "knowlesdavina"
                              <knowlesdavina@...> wrote:
                              > . Anybody know what a cludgie is? I get a mental picture of an open
                              > drain or sewer?
                              > Ina
                            • chris wright
                              Sorry, Dave My entire family are from Dundee, and have been for generations - every one of us uses the word cludgie . ... To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Sorry, Dave

                                My entire family are from Dundee, and have been for generations - every one of us uses the word 'cludgie'.

                                :oP


                                To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                From: banjo046@...
                                Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:03:00 +0000
                                Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Cludgie

                                The word cludgie is not used in Dundee, but is used in Glasgow and it is a
                                drain in the street. In Dundee this is called a Cundy. The name for the
                                toilet inside or outside is the Lavy. Pronounced Lah vy.
                                Dave

                                From: "parkneuk1940" <genehunter@hotmail. co.uk>
                                Reply-To: dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com
                                To: dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: [dundee-history] Cludgie
                                Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:21:49 -0000

                                A cludgie is a toilet, outside in days gone by, with neatly cut
                                newspaper on a string, if you were lucky.

                                Kathleen.

                                --- In dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com, "knowlesdavina"
                                <knowlesdavina@ ...> wrote:
                                > . Anybody know what a cludgie is? I get a mental picture of an open
                                > drain or sewer?
                                > Ina




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                              • Robin Fosdal
                                Cludgie or, more often, Cludge was certainly in use alongside Lavy in Dundee when I grew up there in the 1950s. It may be that the word had fallen out of
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  "Cludgie" or, more often, "Cludge" was certainly in use alongside
                                  "Lavy" in Dundee when I grew up there in the 1950s. It may be that the
                                  word had fallen out of general use but still existed in children's
                                  street language.

                                  I must admit that I still use this word, but only to shock my effete
                                  neighbours here in south-east England.

                                  Robin.


                                  --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com, "David Perks" <banjo046@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > The word cludgie is not used in Dundee, but is used in Glasgow and
                                  it is a
                                  > drain in the street. In Dundee this is called a Cundy. The name for the
                                  > toilet inside or outside is the Lavy. Pronounced Lah vy.
                                  > Dave
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: "parkneuk1940" <genehunter@...>
                                  > Reply-To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                  > To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [dundee-history] Cludgie
                                  > Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:21:49 -0000
                                  >
                                  > A cludgie is a toilet, outside in days gone by, with neatly cut
                                  > newspaper on a string, if you were lucky.
                                  >
                                  > Kathleen.
                                  >
                                  > --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com, "knowlesdavina"
                                  > <knowlesdavina@> wrote:
                                  > > . Anybody know what a cludgie is? I get a mental picture of an open
                                  > > drain or sewer?
                                  > > Ina
                                  >
                                • David Perks
                                  I was born and bred in Dundee as were most of my relatives and I have never heard the word used. Perhaps you are confusing Dundee with Lochee where I have
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I was born and bred in Dundee as were most of my relatives and I have never
                                    heard the word used.
                                    Perhaps you are confusing Dundee with Lochee where I have heard it used.
                                    Dave


                                    From: chris wright <aye-wright@...>
                                    Reply-To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                    To: <dundee-history@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Cludgie
                                    Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:05:47 +0000


                                    Sorry, Dave

                                    My entire family are from Dundee, and have been for generations - every one
                                    of us uses the word 'cludgie'.

                                    :oP

                                    To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: banjo046@...
                                    Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:03:00 +0000
                                    Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Cludgie




















                                    The word cludgie is not used in Dundee, but is used in Glasgow
                                    and it is a

                                    drain in the street. In Dundee this is called a Cundy. The name for the

                                    toilet inside or outside is the Lavy. Pronounced Lah vy.

                                    Dave



                                    From: "parkneuk1940" <genehunter@...>

                                    Reply-To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com

                                    To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com

                                    Subject: [dundee-history] Cludgie

                                    Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:21:49 -0000



                                    A cludgie is a toilet, outside in days gone by, with neatly cut

                                    newspaper on a string, if you were lucky.



                                    Kathleen.



                                    --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com, "knowlesdavina"

                                    <knowlesdavina@...> wrote:

                                    > . Anybody know what a cludgie is? I get a mental picture of an open

                                    > drain or sewer?

                                    > Ina
























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                                  • chris wright
                                    Dave, I was also born and bred in Dundee (and no, not in Lochee), have used the word cludgie for toilet all my days, and have heard it from my own family
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Dave,

                                      I was also born and bred in Dundee (and no, not in Lochee), have used the word 'cludgie' for 'toilet' all my days, and have heard it from my own family and others since I was old enough to remember.

                                      Why is it so difficult to accept you may be wrong on this one?

                                      Chris


                                      To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: banjo046@...
                                      Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:27:24 +0000
                                      Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Cludgie

                                      I was born and bred in Dundee as were most of my relatives and I have never
                                      heard the word used.
                                      Perhaps you are confusing Dundee with Lochee where I have heard it used.
                                      Dave

                                      From: chris wright <aye-wright@hotmail. com>
                                      Reply-To: dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com
                                      To: <dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com>
                                      Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Cludgie
                                      Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:05:47 +0000

                                      Sorry, Dave

                                      My entire family are from Dundee, and have been for generations - every one
                                      of us uses the word 'cludgie'.

                                      :oP

                                      To: dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com
                                      From: banjo046@sympatico. ca
                                      Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:03:00 +0000
                                      Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Cludgie

                                      The word cludgie is not used in Dundee, but is used in Glasgow
                                      and it is a

                                      drain in the street. In Dundee this is called a Cundy. The name for the

                                      toilet inside or outside is the Lavy. Pronounced Lah vy.

                                      Dave

                                      From: "parkneuk1940" <genehunter@hotmail. co.uk>

                                      Reply-To: dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com

                                      To: dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com

                                      Subject: [dundee-history] Cludgie

                                      Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:21:49 -0000

                                      A cludgie is a toilet, outside in days gone by, with neatly cut

                                      newspaper on a string, if you were lucky.

                                      Kathleen.

                                      --- In dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com, "knowlesdavina"

                                      <knowlesdavina@ ...> wrote:

                                      > . Anybody know what a cludgie is? I get a mental picture of an open

                                      > drain or sewer?

                                      > Ina

                                      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                      Great deals on almost anything at eBay.co.uk. Search, bid, find and win on
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                                      Get Started!
                                    • Michael Bolik
                                      Well, though being brought up in Dundee I can t comment on cludgie v lavy - my father was Polish and my mother English. But I remember using the word
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Well, though being brought up in Dundee I can't comment on "cludgie" v "lavy" - my father was Polish and my mother English.

                                        But I remember using the word "cundie" for a drain - no doubt a result of the "Auld Alliance" between Scotland and France - i.e. "conduit." It is like the expresion "dinna fash", which is French in origin and which means "Don't fret!"

                                        I am not ancient (well, some would say that I am!) but I remember in the 1960s when I was a young boy the rag and bone man would come around with his horse and cart and we'd take stuff to him and get transfers and scraps. I also remember the man coming around to light the gas street lamps outside. This was at my aunt and uncle's flat in Marryat Terrace. With my parents I lived in a tenement in Fintry - then Fingarth Street - now called Grampian Gardens. It's strange how you remember the past - for me everything was wonderful and happy, even though it turned out my parents were anxious to leave Fintry because it was turning into the worst part of Dundee (though soon to be superseded by the newly built Whitfield estate).

                                        Wow - those were the early days of tv, with Z Cars, the first Dr Who series, the Beatles, Crackerjack, Tales from Europe...

                                        It has struck me over this discussion about cludgies etc that there is a lot or history out there in our minds and memories. It is a shame it isn't written down or recorded somewhere. I work in an archive where we save the "memory" of Dundee. I would be happy to receive any memories people have and keep them for the future in our archive.

                                        On a different theme I went to the new Morrison's store on Saturday. They are using three photographs from the University archives, which I remember giving to the media company looking for images of Dundee for the new store. There are also current images and some from the Central Library. Ours are of the Law, looking very bare, a factory worker at Dens Works in the 1950s, and the first Tay Bridge, looking from Wormit.

                                        Ok. Enough of me - hope I didn't bore you too much. But I mean it about collecting anecdotes, such as the one about the conditions post war veterans faced re housing etc.

                                        Please let me know what you think...

                                        Michael

                                        The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No: SC015096
                                      • noraweinberger
                                        ... and to add to the banter, I just broke out my newly acquired Dundonian for Beginners , by Mick McCluskey. Under the heading: Wurdz and Meeninz, the
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          ... and to add to the banter, I just broke out my newly acquired
                                          "Dundonian for Beginners", by Mick McCluskey. Under the heading: Wurdz
                                          and Meeninz, the translation for outhouse and/or toilet is 'Cluhjee'.
                                          This is no doubt the phonetic spelling for us Yankees who would
                                          otherwise butcher the dialect. I don't know where Charlotte Schulz is
                                          today, but no doubt she'll chime-in at some point with a vote for
                                          cludgie, as I've heard her use the word.

                                          I suppose if you were to use any of the suggested terminology when
                                          asking for the location of the "rest room", someone would gladly point
                                          the way... and isn't that really what's important here? Amen! ;-)

                                          Cheers,

                                          Nora
                                        • Charlotte Juarez
                                          This is Charlotte from Phoenix -- although my granny used the newspaper, we never did use the term cludgie when I was growing up -- it was always the
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            This is Charlotte from Phoenix -- although my granny used the newspaper, we never did use the term "cludgie" when I was growing up -- it was always the "lavvie" in my granny's house.  First time I ever heard the word was in one of my first years at the Harris (around 1961) and it was just the "cludge."/Charlotte


                                            To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                            From: nora@...
                                            Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 16:37:00 +0000
                                            Subject: [dundee-history] Cludgie

                                            ... and to add to the banter, I just broke out my newly acquired
                                            "Dundonian for Beginners", by Mick McCluskey. Under the heading: Wurdz
                                            and Meeninz, the translation for outhouse and/or toilet is 'Cluhjee'.
                                            This is no doubt the phonetic spelling for us Yankees who would
                                            otherwise butcher the dialect. I don't know where Charlotte Schulz is
                                            today, but no doubt she'll chime-in at some point with a vote for
                                            cludgie, as I've heard her use the word.

                                            I suppose if you were to use any of the suggested terminology when
                                            asking for the location of the "rest room", someone would gladly point
                                            the way... and isn't that really what's important here? Amen! ;-)

                                            Cheers,

                                            Nora




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                                          • Charlotte Juarez
                                            Michael and all, this is Charlotte from Phoenix, originally from the top of the hill. I have a tone of family clippings and stories that I ve written for my so
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Michael and all, this is Charlotte from Phoenix, originally from the top of the hill. I have a tone of family clippings and stories that I've written for my so sadly "Americanized" children so they know they're "from Dundee and proud of it."  These little stories are about growing up from about the time I was born (1947) until I left Dundee in 1965 when I married a lad from Edzell.  My granny's granny used to own the fish shop and the china shop at the top of the hill and owned a little white horse that was well known.  Lots of memories and pictures of going to Hill Street School and then Butterburn and spending my childhood days hanging out at the Palace (where my granny worked in the box office) with the chorus girls, the cleaning ladies, and the comedians.  If you'd like to know more about these, please feel free to email me at jeatsax1@...
                                              best, Charl



                                              To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                              From: m.d.bolik@...
                                              Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 16:37:20 +0100
                                              Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Cludgie

                                              Well, though being brought up in Dundee I can't comment on "cludgie" v "lavy" - my father was Polish and my mother English.

                                              But I remember using the word "cundie" for a drain - no doubt a result of the "Auld Alliance" between Scotland and France - i.e. "conduit." It is like the expresion "dinna fash", which is French in origin and which means "Don't fret!"

                                              I am not ancient (well, some would say that I am!) but I remember in the 1960s when I was a young boy the rag and bone man would come around with his horse and cart and we'd take stuff to him and get transfers and scraps. I also remember the man coming around to light the gas street lamps outside. This was at my aunt and uncle's flat in Marryat Terrace. With my parents I lived in a tenement in Fintry - then Fingarth Street - now called Grampian Gardens. It's strange how you remember the past - for me everything was wonderful and happy, even though it turned out my parents were anxious to leave Fintry because it was turning into the worst part of Dundee (though soon to be superseded by the newly built Whitfield estate).

                                              Wow - those were the early days of tv, with Z Cars, the first Dr Who series, the Beatles, Crackerjack, Tales from Europe...

                                              It has struck me over this discussion about cludgies etc that there is a lot or history out there in our minds and memories. It is a shame it isn't written down or recorded somewhere. I work in an archive where we save the "memory" of Dundee. I would be happy to receive any memories people have and keep them for the future in our archive.

                                              On a different theme I went to the new Morrison's store on Saturday. They are using three photographs from the University archives, which I remember giving to the media company looking for images of Dundee for the new store. There are also current images and some from the Central Library. Ours are of the Law, looking very bare, a factory worker at Dens Works in the 1950s, and the first Tay Bridge, looking from Wormit.

                                              Ok. Enough of me - hope I didn't bore you too much. But I mean it about collecting anecdotes, such as the one about the conditions post war veterans faced re housing etc.

                                              Please let me know what you think...

                                              Michael

                                              The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No: SC015096



                                              Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Add them now!
                                            • Charlotte Juarez
                                              Now here I am after reading these enlightening emails trying to recall all the names I ve heard that place of great relief called -- how about the bog ? In
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Now here I am after reading these enlightening emails trying to recall all the names I've heard that place of great relief called -- how about the "bog"?  In the trains (remember the joy of riding in one with a corridor) that had a W.C. -- (my Granny told me stories all my life and when I first saw this I knew my letters and how to spell, and wondered what Winston Churchill had to do with it).  And can "cludge" be any worse that here in America where grown and men and women talk about "little girls/boys room" - makes you wonder what they do in there. Best to all/Charlotte


                                                To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                                From: banjo046@...
                                                Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:03:00 +0000
                                                Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Cludgie

                                                The word cludgie is not used in Dundee, but is used in Glasgow and it is a
                                                drain in the street. In Dundee this is called a Cundy. The name for the
                                                toilet inside or outside is the Lavy. Pronounced Lah vy.
                                                Dave

                                                From: "parkneuk1940" <genehunter@hotmail. co.uk>
                                                Reply-To: dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com
                                                To: dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com
                                                Subject: [dundee-history] Cludgie
                                                Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:21:49 -0000

                                                A cludgie is a toilet, outside in days gone by, with neatly cut
                                                newspaper on a string, if you were lucky.

                                                Kathleen.

                                                --- In dundee-history@ yahoogroups. com, "knowlesdavina"
                                                <knowlesdavina@ ...> wrote:
                                                > . Anybody know what a cludgie is? I get a mental picture of an open
                                                > drain or sewer?
                                                > Ina




                                                Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Add them now!
                                              • Lair Behr
                                                OK, so how did the term cludgie derive?
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  OK, so how did the term "cludgie" derive?
                                                • Peter Marshall
                                                  ... , Lair Behr wrote: ... Having started this strand, I guess I had better finish it. DSL - SNDS
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment


                                                    --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com, Lair Behr <danifax@...> wrote:>

                                                    > OK, so how did the term "cludgie" derive?
                                                    >
                                                    Having started this strand, I guess I had better finish it. 


                                                     DSL - SNDS      CLUDGIE , n. A slang term for a water-closet (Fif., Edb., wm.Sc. 1975).
                                                         [Deformation of closet, poss. conflated with lodge.]         given in       The Dictionary of the Scots Language [DSL] and Scottish National Dictionary Supplement [SNDS] which were recently electronically linked through Dundee University and can be found at
                                                    http://www.dsl.ac.uk/


                                                    This indicates Fife, Edinburgh and West Central Scotland sources.  However, it is not surprising that Dundee is not mentioned for the following reason.   Frustratingly, it was only in the 2005 supplement that the DSL organisers started to note Dundee as an independent geographical location!   As they put it :"have added Dundee to the list of geographical labels, in view of the distinctive character of the Scots of that city"  - better late than never, I suppose.     Even so, I think that calling it slang is probably a bit rich, since it was obviously mainstream language for some. 

                                                    My source was my father-in-law, who was sibling to the unfortunate child whom he was told had 'drowned in the cludgie' where he was born in Dallfield Walk.  He spent his youth in Westhall Place in Craigie, then his married life in Menzieshill. 

                                                    Peter

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     


                                                     

                                                  • Robin Fosdal
                                                    I remember, at school, offering the word cludge as an example of onomatopoeia. Needless to say, I got the strap. ... Edb., ... given in
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      I remember, at school, offering the word "cludge" as an example of
                                                      onomatopoeia. Needless to say, I got the strap.



                                                      --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Marshall"
                                                      <tis_peter@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > <mailto:dundee-history@yahoogroups.com> , Lair Behr <danifax@>
                                                      > wrote:>
                                                      > > OK, so how did the term "cludgie" derive?
                                                      > >
                                                      > Having started this strand, I guess I had better finish it.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > DSL - SNDS CLUDGIE, n. A slang term for a water-closet (Fif.,
                                                      Edb.,
                                                      > wm.Sc. 1975).
                                                      > [Deformation of closet, poss. conflated with lodge.]
                                                      given in
                                                      > The Dictionary of the Scots Language [DSL] and Scottish National
                                                      > Dictionary Supplement [SNDS] which were recently electronically linked
                                                      > through Dundee University and can be found at
                                                      > http://www.dsl.ac.uk/ <http://www.dsl.ac.uk/>
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > This indicates Fife, Edinburgh and West Central Scotland sources.
                                                      > However, it is not surprising that Dundee is not mentioned for the
                                                      > following reason. Frustratingly, it was only in the 2005 supplement
                                                      > that the DSL organisers started to note Dundee as an independent
                                                      > geographical location! As they put it :"have added Dundee to the list
                                                      > of geographical labels, in view of the distinctive character of the
                                                      > Scots of that city" - better late than never, I suppose. Even so, I
                                                      > think that calling it slang is probably a bit rich, since it was
                                                      > obviously mainstream language for some.
                                                      >
                                                      > My source was my father-in-law, who was sibling to the unfortunate child
                                                      > whom he was told had 'drowned in the cludgie' where he was born in
                                                      > Dallfield Walk. He spent his youth in Westhall Place in Craigie, then
                                                      > his married life in Menzieshill.
                                                      >
                                                      > Peter
                                                      >
                                                    • Michael Bolik
                                                      Hi Group members might be interested in our new blog entry about G L Wilson s store The Corner : http://www.archives-records-artefacts.com/ At the bottom of
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Dec 15, 2011
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                                                        Hi

                                                        Group members might be interested in our new blog entry about G L Wilson's store "The Corner":

                                                        http://www.archives-records-artefacts.com/

                                                        At the bottom of the article is a link to some pages from G L Wilson Christmas catalogues. Just in case you miss it, here is the link:

                                                        http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives/glwilsonchristmascatalogues.htm

                                                        One catalogue page is devoted to toy guns, soldiers etc - "Let your children fight their country's battles over again" and rather ominously it was from December 1914. We were wondering if any of the children found themselves, four years later, stuck in the middle of a real battle...

                                                        Michael


                                                        Michael Bolik
                                                        Senior Assistant Archivist
                                                        Archive Services
                                                        University of Dundee
                                                        Dundee DD1 4HN
                                                        United Kingdom
                                                        tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
                                                        fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
                                                        http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives



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                                                        The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No: SC015096
                                                      • Anne Ide
                                                        My late aunt had a friend who worked in the gents department of GL Wilson s.   One market day, an elderly farmer came into the shop, looked at her
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Dec 23, 2011
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                                                          My late aunt had a friend who worked in the gents' department of GL Wilson's.
                                                           
                                                          One market day, an elderly farmer came into the shop, looked at her doubtfully, then said gruffly,
                                                           
                                                          "See's a sicht o' yer drahers, lassie"
                                                           
                                                          It took a panic-stricken moment for the aforesaid assistant to realise she was being asked, not to display her lingerie, but to produce examples from the store's stock of long gents' underpants! 
                                                           
                                                          From: Michael Bolik <m.d.bolik@...>
                                                          To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2011, 23:21
                                                          Subject: [dundee-history] G L Wilson store

                                                           
                                                          Hi

                                                          Group members might be interested in our new blog entry about G L Wilson's store "The Corner":

                                                          http://www.archives-records-artefacts.com/

                                                          At the bottom of the article is a link to some pages from G L Wilson Christmas catalogues. Just in case you miss it, here is the link:

                                                          http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives/glwilsonchristmascatalogues.htm

                                                          One catalogue page is devoted to toy guns, soldiers etc - "Let your children fight their country's battles over again" and rather ominously it was from December 1914. We were wondering if any of the children found themselves, four years later, stuck in the middle of a real battle...

                                                          Michael

                                                          Michael Bolik
                                                          Senior Assistant Archivist
                                                          Archive Services
                                                          University of Dundee
                                                          Dundee DD1 4HN
                                                          United Kingdom
                                                          tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
                                                          fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
                                                          http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives

                                                          ************************************************************
                                                          Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email?

                                                          The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No: SC015096


                                                        • David Perks
                                                          That must have been on Tuesday To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com From: anne_ide2003@yahoo.co.uk Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 19:17:45 +0000 Subject: Re:
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Dec 23, 2011
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            That must have been on Tuesday
                                                             

                                                            To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                                            From: anne_ide2003@...
                                                            Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 19:17:45 +0000
                                                            Subject: Re: [dundee-history] G L Wilson store

                                                             
                                                            My late aunt had a friend who worked in the gents' department of GL Wilson's.
                                                             
                                                            One market day, an elderly farmer came into the shop, looked at her doubtfully, then said gruffly,
                                                             
                                                            "See's a sicht o' yer drahers, lassie"
                                                             
                                                            It took a panic-stricken moment for the aforesaid assistant to realise she was being asked, not to display her lingerie, but to produce examples from the store's stock of long gents' underpants! 
                                                             
                                                            From: Michael Bolik <m.d.bolik@...>
                                                            To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2011, 23:21
                                                            Subject: [dundee-history] G L Wilson store

                                                             
                                                            Hi

                                                            Group members might be interested in our new blog entry about G L Wilson's store "The Corner":

                                                            http://www.archives-records-artefacts.com/

                                                            At the bottom of the article is a link to some pages from G L Wilson Christmas catalogues. Just in case you miss it, here is the link:

                                                            http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives/glwilsonchristmascatalogues.htm

                                                            One catalogue page is devoted to toy guns, soldiers etc - "Let your children fight their country's battles over again" and rather ominously it was from December 1914. We were wondering if any of the children found themselves, four years later, stuck in the middle of a real battle...

                                                            Michael

                                                            Michael Bolik
                                                            Senior Assistant Archivist
                                                            Archive Services
                                                            University of Dundee
                                                            Dundee DD1 4HN
                                                            United Kingdom
                                                            tel. +44 (0)1382 384095
                                                            fax. +44 (0)1382 385523
                                                            http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives

                                                            ************************************************************
                                                            Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email?

                                                            The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish charity, No: SC015096



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