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Researching 1879 collapse of Tay Bridge for Novel

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  • noraweinberger
    Hello to you all… My name is Nora, an American, one quarter your Scots Kin! I wonder if I might enlist the help of the group? I am writing a Historic
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 5, 2006
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      Hello to you all…

      My name is Nora, an American, one quarter your Scots Kin! I wonder
      if I might enlist the help of the group? I am writing a Historic
      Romance novel loosely based on the extraordinary women of my Scots
      heritage. My Grandmother, Ann Maize, was born in 1879 in Milton,
      Lanark (or is it `Lanarkshire'?). My research on my Grandmother's
      actual birthplace, I will admit, was limited. But, little Milton
      seemed to lack the pizzazz needed as a `backdrop' for the story.
      However, Dundee kept leaping up everywhere on the internet, 1879
      being the year the original Tay Railroad Bridge collapsed. This
      seemed a fitting place to set the story, my Grandmother Ann having
      her own railroading history as an early pioneer of the Alaska
      Territory - my Grandfather a steamfitter who worked to build the
      Great Alaska Railroad.

      It is a year since I began this project, and I have surrounded
      myself with books, maps and photos of Dundee - your own
      dundeecity.gov.uk web site being an invaluable resource. I have
      come to love your fair city, as if Dundee were truly the city of my
      own heritage. It becomes ever more important to me that I represent
      this event in your city's history with as much accuracy as
      possible. So… this is where your help comes in. I was fortunate to
      discover Professor Swinfen's book `The Fall of the Tay Bridge', but
      I'm hoping there is one among you (or one of you who knows someone)
      who is a sage on the subject and is willing to correspond on
      occasion by e-mail.

      BUT, I have so many more questions!
      *I would assume the coal burning of the city's dense population and
      Jute Mills would have made for extremely polluted skies over 19th
      Century Dundee, would this be a correct assumption?
      *Does anyone know of a facility where one might hold a Ball/Assembly
      during that time period?
      *Can someone give me a general overview of the seasonal weather in
      Dundee?
      *Just how long are the evenings in Winter? And how long are the
      days in Summer?
      *And you Astrologers: What is the best season for clear skies and
      star gazing? What constellations are in the skies over Scotland…
      and is
      there any Scots Folklore to these constellations?
      *And a little bit about the flora of the area – I've learned a lot
      about the Oslin, or Arbroath, Pippin Apple - cultivated in the early
      1800's by the monks of the Abbey! What else blooms and grows? What
      are those beautiful trees that bloom along Victoria Road?

      I welcome any and all input! I thank you all for taking the time to
      read this… and thank you in advance for any help you can lend.

      Regards,

      Nora Weinberger
      nora@...
    • Charlotte Juarez
      Dear Nora - my name is Charlotte bleh - born and raised in Dundee 1947 - 1965 when I left for America. You may want to check out my stories at
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 6, 2006
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        Dear Nora - my name is Charlotte bleh - born and raised in Dundee 1947 -
        1965 when I left for America. You may want to check out my stories at
        www.electricscotland.com under "Stories and Stovies" for dundee lore. Also
        if you are interested in establishing a corresponding friendship with me,
        I'd be glad to collaborate with you and provide you with background on my
        own granny in Dundee who raised me on stories about her own granny and
        highland background of weavers who came to Dundee from Stanley about the
        time you're contemplating as the period of your semi biographical novel. My
        educational background is, obviously, literature/poetry/storytelling and I'd
        be glad to share. I'm currently trying to complete a 31 chapter collection
        of stories about growing up in Dundee which may provide colour and
        imagination of life in the tenements - which were, as a matter of fact,
        built by the jute barons as homes for their workers - again, many of whom
        came in from the country as home industry weavers as a result of the
        industrial revolution when steam demolished the home weaver industry. My
        mother was a "dundee weaver" and my great grandfather drove clydesdales for
        the mills from the dundee docks where the raw jute landed from india.
        Titillating, but true, my granny was widowed in the great war 1918 and in
        1930 or so had an affair with the married son of a jute mill family and sued
        him in court for the rights to give his name to their son whose legal
        surname was Neish or Thomas (neish for the man, thomas my grandmothers
        married name). Adding to that story, Eric later died and was buried on his
        15th birthday. I grew up in a wally close tenement and there was an old
        maid in her eighties named Miss Laurie who used to tell me stories about her
        childhood - and I remember her telling me "o' the nicht the brig went doon"
        - so I got the story first hand. I live in Phoenix, cell phoen 602
        .418.7689 if you want to call me. Best, Charlotte (PS my children say I'm a
        "fount of useless information" but also say the stories will "mean a lot
        more to us when you're gone." Nice Kids! :)



        >From: "noraweinberger" <nora@...>
        >Reply-To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
        >To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [dundee-history] Researching 1879 collapse of Tay Bridge for Novel
        >Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 04:29:16 -0000
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Hello to you all�
        >
        >
        >
        >My name is Nora, an American, one quarter your Scots Kin!� I wonder
        >
        >if I might enlist the help of the group?� I am writing a Historic
        >
        >Romance novel loosely based on the extraordinary women of my Scots
        >
        >heritage.� My Grandmother, Ann Maize, was born in 1879 in Milton,
        >
        >Lanark (or is it `Lanarkshire'?).� My research on my Grandmother's
        >
        >actual birthplace, I will admit, was limited.� But, little Milton
        >
        >seemed to lack the pizzazz needed as a `backdrop' for the story.�
        >
        >However, Dundee kept leaping up everywhere on the internet, 1879
        >
        >being the year the original Tay Railroad Bridge collapsed.� This
        >
        >seemed a fitting place to set the story, my Grandmother Ann having
        >
        >her own railroading history as an early pioneer of the Alaska
        >
        >Territory - my Grandfather a steamfitter who worked to build the
        >
        >Great Alaska Railroad.
        >
        >
        >
        >It is a year since I began this project, and I have surrounded
        >
        >myself with books, maps and photos of Dundee - your own
        >
        >dundeecity.gov.uk web site being an invaluable resource.� I have
        >
        >come to love your fair city, as if Dundee were truly the city of my
        >
        >own heritage. It becomes ever more important to me that I represent
        >
        >this event in your city's history with as much accuracy as
        >
        >possible.� So� this is where your help comes in.� I was fortunate to
        >
        >discover Professor Swinfen's book `The Fall of the Tay Bridge', but
        >
        >I'm hoping there is one among you (or one of you who knows someone)
        >
        >who is a sage on the subject and is willing to correspond on
        >
        >occasion by e-mail.
        >
        >
        >
        >BUT, I have so many more questions!
        >
        >*I would assume the coal burning of the city's dense population and
        >
        >Jute Mills would have made for extremely polluted skies over 19th
        >
        >Century Dundee, would this be a correct assumption?
        >
        >*Does anyone know of a facility where one might hold a Ball/Assembly
        >
        >during that time period?
        >
        >*Can someone give me a general overview of the seasonal weather in
        >
        >Dundee?
        >
        >*Just how long are the evenings in Winter?� And how long are the
        >
        >days in Summer?
        >
        >*And you Astrologers: What is the best season for clear skies and
        >
        >star gazing?� What constellations are in the skies over Scotland�
        >
        >and is
        >
        >there any Scots Folklore to these constellations?
        >
        >*And a little bit about the flora of the area � I've learned a lot
        >
        >about the Oslin, or Arbroath, Pippin Apple - cultivated in the early
        >
        >1800's by the monks of the Abbey!� What else blooms and grows?� What
        >
        >are those beautiful trees that bloom along Victoria Road?
        >
        >
        >
        >I welcome any and all input!� I thank you all for taking the time to
        >
        >read this� and thank you in advance for any help you can lend.
        >
        >
        >
        >Regards,
        >
        >
        >
        >Nora Weinberger
        >
        >nora@...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Please remember to bookmark our Home Page. Those with Yahoo IDs will be
        >able to view our Archives of Messages,Files, and Bookmarks. Go to:
        >
        >
        >
        >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dundee-history
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Rex H. McTyeire
        Fascinated, Charlotte. ( Hello Nora too ! ) I just lurk about here to pick up lil tidbits of info, been here a while. My interest is generically historic Scot,
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 6, 2006
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          Fascinated, Charlotte. ( Hello Nora too ! ) I just lurk about here to pick
          up lil tidbits of info, been here a while. My interest is generically
          historic Scot, all periods, all regions, as well as promoting understanding
          between Scottish residents and Diaspora descended, sprinkled with a large
          dose of current Scottish politics.



          PLEASE Charlotte :-) ... your insight would be most valuable to my efforts.
          If you can stand political argument ... and wish to promote and reference
          your on line articles, collect more, as well as contribute to political
          discussions for Scotland's future ...( and defend truth in history on all
          Scot subjects) ... I would like to invite you over to my list. ( Begging
          actually that you at least visit :-) ) We have had a few expat Scot females
          on the list, ( and a few American females marrying into Scotland residence)
          ... but most with a more recent perspective on the issues.



          Nora and everybody else is also welcome; But Charlotte, please consider
          spending some time with my folks at FreeScots. If too much for you ... you
          can promote input to your collections, advertise the collection a bit ...
          then go to no mail or move on. ( I have access to a first person in Scotland
          written clearance experience that may be custom made for your article
          collection if you are interested.)



          I think a few perspectives from you might turn a few of the lad's arguments
          on their heads. We've done over 22,000 messages in five years. We have
          active expats, Diasporans ( US, AU, CN and elsewhere) as well as residents
          all over Scotland and the South Isle ( and the political spectrum too) ( We
          make them behave ... but argument, emotion and vitriol is there.) Its also
          a great place to pose a question and get several slants in answer.



          I am Rex H. McTyeire, US ( Exile descended ... Mother's maiden: McCranie)
          The first Jacobite refugee ... out of Tain, the second forcibly cleared.



          A blank email to

          < FreeScots-subscribe@yahoogroups.com >



          ... .gets you in too look about.

          Or see the list site here:

          < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreeScots/ >



          Thanks for considering us, Charlotte, and please remember that we are here,
          and help spread the word.

          Rex H. McTyeire











          -----Original Message-----
          From: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dundee-history@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of Charlotte Juarez
          Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:19 PM
          To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Researching 1879 collapse of Tay Bridge for
          Novel



          Dear Nora - my name is Charlotte bleh - born and raised in Dundee 1947 -

          1965 when I left for America. You may want to check out my stories at

          www.electricscotland.com under "Stories and Stovies" for dundee lore. Also

          if you are interested in establishing a corresponding friendship with me,

          I'd be glad to collaborate with you and provide you with background on my

          own granny in Dundee who raised me on stories about her own granny and

          highland background of weavers who came to Dundee from Stanley about the

          time you're contemplating as the period of your semi biographical novel. My


          educational background is, obviously, literature/poetry/storytelling and I'd


          be glad to share. I'm currently trying to complete a 31 chapter collection

          of stories about growing up in Dundee which may provide colour and

          imagination of life in the tenements - which were, as a matter of fact,

          built by the jute barons as homes for their workers - again, many of whom

          came in from the country as home industry weavers as a result of the

          industrial revolution when steam demolished the home weaver industry. My

          mother was a "dundee weaver" and my great grandfather drove clydesdales for

          the mills from the dundee docks where the raw jute landed from india.

          Titillating, but true, my granny was widowed in the great war 1918 and in

          1930 or so had an affair with the married son of a jute mill family and sued


          him in court for the rights to give his name to their son whose legal

          surname was Neish or Thomas (neish for the man, thomas my grandmothers

          married name). Adding to that story, Eric later died and was buried on his

          15th birthday. I grew up in a wally close tenement and there was an old

          maid in her eighties named Miss Laurie who used to tell me stories about her


          childhood - and I remember her telling me "o' the nicht the brig went doon"

          - so I got the story first hand. I live in Phoenix, cell phoen 602

          .418.7689 if you want to call me. Best, Charlotte (PS my children say I'm a


          "fount of useless information" but also say the stories will "mean a lot

          more to us when you're gone." Nice Kids! :)







          >From: "noraweinberger" <nora@...>

          >Reply-To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com

          >To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com

          >Subject: [dundee-history] Researching 1879 collapse of Tay Bridge for Novel

          >Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 04:29:16 -0000

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >Hello to you all.

          >

          >

          >

          >My name is Nora, an American, one quarter your Scots Kin! I wonder

          >

          >if I might enlist the help of the group? I am writing a Historic

          >

          >Romance novel loosely based on the extraordinary women of my Scots

          >

          >heritage. My Grandmother, Ann Maize, was born in 1879 in Milton,

          >

          >Lanark (or is it `Lanarkshire'?). My research on my Grandmother's

          >

          >actual birthplace, I will admit, was limited. But, little Milton

          >

          >seemed to lack the pizzazz needed as a `backdrop' for the story.

          >

          >However, Dundee kept leaping up everywhere on the internet, 1879

          >

          >being the year the original Tay Railroad Bridge collapsed. This

          >

          >seemed a fitting place to set the story, my Grandmother Ann having

          >

          >her own railroading history as an early pioneer of the Alaska

          >

          >Territory - my Grandfather a steamfitter who worked to build the

          >

          >Great Alaska Railroad.

          >

          >

          >

          >It is a year since I began this project, and I have surrounded

          >

          >myself with books, maps and photos of Dundee - your own

          >

          >dundeecity.gov.uk web site being an invaluable resource. I have

          >

          >come to love your fair city, as if Dundee were truly the city of my

          >

          >own heritage. It becomes ever more important to me that I represent

          >

          >this event in your city's history with as much accuracy as

          >

          >possible. So. this is where your help comes in. I was fortunate to

          >

          >discover Professor Swinfen's book `The Fall of the Tay Bridge', but

          >

          >I'm hoping there is one among you (or one of you who knows someone)

          >

          >who is a sage on the subject and is willing to correspond on

          >

          >occasion by e-mail.

          >

          >

          >

          >BUT, I have so many more questions!

          >

          >*I would assume the coal burning of the city's dense population and

          >

          >Jute Mills would have made for extremely polluted skies over 19th

          >

          >Century Dundee, would this be a correct assumption?

          >

          >*Does anyone know of a facility where one might hold a Ball/Assembly

          >

          >during that time period?

          >

          >*Can someone give me a general overview of the seasonal weather in

          >

          >Dundee?

          >

          >*Just how long are the evenings in Winter? And how long are the

          >

          >days in Summer?

          >

          >*And you Astrologers: What is the best season for clear skies and

          >

          >star gazing? What constellations are in the skies over Scotland.

          >

          >and is

          >

          >there any Scots Folklore to these constellations?

          >

          >*And a little bit about the flora of the area - I've learned a lot

          >

          >about the Oslin, or Arbroath, Pippin Apple - cultivated in the early

          >

          >1800's by the monks of the Abbey! What else blooms and grows? What

          >

          >are those beautiful trees that bloom along Victoria Road?

          >

          >

          >

          >I welcome any and all input! I thank you all for taking the time to

          >

          >read this. and thank you in advance for any help you can lend.

          >

          >

          >

          >Regards,

          >

          >

          >

          >Nora Weinberger

          >

          >nora@...

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >Please remember to bookmark our Home Page. Those with Yahoo IDs will be

          >able to view our Archives of Messages,Files, and Bookmarks. Go to:

          >

          >

          >

          >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dundee-history

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

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          >

          >

          >

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          >









          Please remember to bookmark our Home Page. Those with Yahoo IDs will be able
          to view our Archives of Messages,Files, and Bookmarks. Go to:



          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dundee-history







          Yahoo! Groups Links



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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nora Weinberger
          Charlotte... Thank you so much for your sweet reply and the path to your wonderful contribution to electricscotland.com... your gift of love to family and
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 6, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Charlotte...

            Thank you so much for your sweet reply and the path to your wonderful
            contribution to electricscotland.com... your gift of love to family and
            friends, 'Stories and Stovies'. I have only just briefly reviewed it, since
            I must run out the door any moment. But, I read enough to laugh out loud
            several times - oh, how I love a good sense of humor! You and I will get
            along famously... and we don't need to be 'cyber' acquaintances, for if you
            appreciate serendipity as much as I do, get this - I live in Mesa! I could
            go on and on... but a 'gowf' tee-time awaits me! If you don't mind, I'll
            call you tomorrow morning sometime. Are you a working gal... (check that -
            we are ALL working gals. I refer to outside the home.) or, are you
            available for lunch a lunch date sometime during the week?

            I look forward to meeting you, sharing stories... helping one another in our
            creative endeavors and our homage to our wonderful ancestry!

            Nora

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Charlotte Juarez" <jeatsax1@...>
            To: <dundee-history@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:18 AM
            Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Researching 1879 collapse of Tay Bridge for
            Novel


            > Dear Nora - my name is Charlotte bleh - born and raised in Dundee 1947 -
            > 1965 when I left for America. You may want to check out my stories at
            > www.electricscotland.com under "Stories and Stovies" for dundee lore.
            > Also
            > if you are interested in establishing a corresponding friendship with me,
            > I'd be glad to collaborate with you and provide you with background on my
            > own granny in Dundee who raised me on stories about her own granny and
            > highland background of weavers who came to Dundee from Stanley about the
            > time you're contemplating as the period of your semi biographical novel.
            > My
            > educational background is, obviously, literature/poetry/storytelling and
            > I'd
            > be glad to share. I'm currently trying to complete a 31 chapter
            > collection
            > of stories about growing up in Dundee which may provide colour and
            > imagination of life in the tenements - which were, as a matter of fact,
            > built by the jute barons as homes for their workers - again, many of whom
            > came in from the country as home industry weavers as a result of the
            > industrial revolution when steam demolished the home weaver industry. My
            > mother was a "dundee weaver" and my great grandfather drove clydesdales
            > for
            > the mills from the dundee docks where the raw jute landed from india.
            > Titillating, but true, my granny was widowed in the great war 1918 and in
            > 1930 or so had an affair with the married son of a jute mill family and
            > sued
            > him in court for the rights to give his name to their son whose legal
            > surname was Neish or Thomas (neish for the man, thomas my grandmothers
            > married name). Adding to that story, Eric later died and was buried on
            > his
            > 15th birthday. I grew up in a wally close tenement and there was an old
            > maid in her eighties named Miss Laurie who used to tell me stories about
            > her
            > childhood - and I remember her telling me "o' the nicht the brig went
            > doon"
            > - so I got the story first hand. I live in Phoenix, cell phoen 602
            > .418.7689 if you want to call me. Best, Charlotte (PS my children say I'm
            > a
            > "fount of useless information" but also say the stories will "mean a lot
            > more to us when you're gone." Nice Kids! :)
            >
            >
            >
            >>From: "noraweinberger" <nora@...>
            >>Reply-To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
            >>To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
            >>Subject: [dundee-history] Researching 1879 collapse of Tay Bridge for
            >>Novel
            >>Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 04:29:16 -0000
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>Hello to you all…
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>My name is Nora, an American, one quarter your Scots Kin! I wonder
            >>
            >>if I might enlist the help of the group? I am writing a Historic
            >>
            >>Romance novel loosely based on the extraordinary women of my Scots
            >>
            >>heritage. My Grandmother, Ann Maize, was born in 1879 in Milton,
            >>
            >>Lanark (or is it `Lanarkshire'?). My research on my Grandmother's
            >>
            >>actual birthplace, I will admit, was limited. But, little Milton
            >>
            >>seemed to lack the pizzazz needed as a `backdrop' for the story.
            >>
            >>However, Dundee kept leaping up everywhere on the internet, 1879
            >>
            >>being the year the original Tay Railroad Bridge collapsed. This
            >>
            >>seemed a fitting place to set the story, my Grandmother Ann having
            >>
            >>her own railroading history as an early pioneer of the Alaska
            >>
            >>Territory - my Grandfather a steamfitter who worked to build the
            >>
            >>Great Alaska Railroad.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>It is a year since I began this project, and I have surrounded
            >>
            >>myself with books, maps and photos of Dundee - your own
            >>
            >>dundeecity.gov.uk web site being an invaluable resource. I have
            >>
            >>come to love your fair city, as if Dundee were truly the city of my
            >>
            >>own heritage. It becomes ever more important to me that I represent
            >>
            >>this event in your city's history with as much accuracy as
            >>
            >>possible. So… this is where your help comes in. I was fortunate to
            >>
            >>discover Professor Swinfen's book `The Fall of the Tay Bridge', but
            >>
            >>I'm hoping there is one among you (or one of you who knows someone)
            >>
            >>who is a sage on the subject and is willing to correspond on
            >>
            >>occasion by e-mail.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>BUT, I have so many more questions!
            >>
            >>*I would assume the coal burning of the city's dense population and
            >>
            >>Jute Mills would have made for extremely polluted skies over 19th
            >>
            >>Century Dundee, would this be a correct assumption?
            >>
            >>*Does anyone know of a facility where one might hold a Ball/Assembly
            >>
            >>during that time period?
            >>
            >>*Can someone give me a general overview of the seasonal weather in
            >>
            >>Dundee?
            >>
            >>*Just how long are the evenings in Winter? And how long are the
            >>
            >>days in Summer?
            >>
            >>*And you Astrologers: What is the best season for clear skies and
            >>
            >>star gazing? What constellations are in the skies over Scotland…
            >>
            >>and is
            >>
            >>there any Scots Folklore to these constellations?
            >>
            >>*And a little bit about the flora of the area – I've learned a lot
            >>
            >>about the Oslin, or Arbroath, Pippin Apple - cultivated in the early
            >>
            >>1800's by the monks of the Abbey! What else blooms and grows? What
            >>
            >>are those beautiful trees that bloom along Victoria Road?
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>I welcome any and all input! I thank you all for taking the time to
            >>
            >>read this… and thank you in advance for any help you can lend.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>Regards,
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>Nora Weinberger
            >>
            >>nora@...
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>Please remember to bookmark our Home Page. Those with Yahoo IDs will be
            >>able to view our Archives of Messages,Files, and Bookmarks. Go to:
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dundee-history
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
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            >>
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          • Nora Weinberger
            Hello Rex, You may be just the man I need to talk to. or maybe someone in the group can point me in the right direction. I am very interested in the
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 7, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Rex,



              You may be just the man I need to talk to. or maybe someone in the group can
              point me in the right direction. I am very interested in the sociopolitical
              impact of the entire circumstance that leads up to the building the Tay
              Bridge, its collapse and the aftermath.



              First, let me share. I do not consider myself a political animal. I sit in
              the middle somewhere, entertain and consider both sides of most arguments,
              and tend to form opinions on each issue separately - independent of an
              entire party line and/or rhetoric. In short, I frustrate the heck out of
              people with political passion. It is not my intent to make a political
              statement with this book, far from it. But, as I research and learn more
              about the Victorian Era, its morals and mores, the general hubris of the
              Industrial Revolution and in particular, what appears to be negligence by
              those involved in building the Tay Bridge. I get a bit riled.



              If I am not mistaken, the collapse of the Tay Bridge was the first 'disaster'
              of its kind. Never before had such a great loss of life been directly
              attributed to the failure of a man-made structure and/or machinery - not a
              war, famine, flood or earthquake - but as a result of man's own invention
              and ambition, unchecked and unquestioned during the Industrial Revolution.
              This was a wake-up call. The political and social ramifications of such an
              event must have been far reaching. and I am extremely interested in knowing
              what the public opinion was in its aftermath.



              Additionally, I wonder how the citizens of Dundee viewed the overcrowding of
              their city, the resulting sanitary issues and what I would assume to be very
              polluted skies. brought about by the advent of the Jute Industry. I would
              think many Dundonians mourned the loss of their 'fair city' for the sake of
              'progress'. But, I only surmise such a sentiment and wonder if it has
              validity or basis in reality.



              There is true-to-life circumstance in the lives of my Grandmother and Great
              Grandmother that will be part of the story. Issues such as illegitimacy,
              the examination of Excommunication and/or Public Repentance as a result of
              such, and insanity (supposed). all controversial topics. I refer to this
              'insanity' as supposed, because I am shocked to find just how easily one
              could find themselves institutionalized in an insane asylum during that era.
              The high percentage of women institutionalized is a staggering statistic and
              I am of the opinion it is mostly due to a lack of women's rights in that
              day. A situation I believe they shared with the indigent, as it appears
              there is a correlation between the 'Poor Law' and the result of asylums as a
              convenient repository for the poor. Again, any feedback on this issue is
              welcome.



              It is my goal to present the subject matter with as much historical accuracy
              as possible. Any input is welcome and appreciated.



              Regards,



              Nora

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Rex H. McTyeire" <rexoid@...>
              To: <dundee-history@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 12:53 PM
              Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Researching 1879 collapse of Tay Bridge for
              Novel


              > Fascinated, Charlotte. ( Hello Nora too ! ) I just lurk about here to pick
              > up lil tidbits of info, been here a while. My interest is generically
              > historic Scot, all periods, all regions, as well as promoting
              > understanding
              > between Scottish residents and Diaspora descended, sprinkled with a large
              > dose of current Scottish politics.
              >
              >
              >
              > PLEASE Charlotte :-) ... your insight would be most valuable to my
              > efforts.
              > If you can stand political argument ... and wish to promote and
              > reference
              > your on line articles, collect more, as well as contribute to political
              > discussions for Scotland's future ...( and defend truth in history on all
              > Scot subjects) ... I would like to invite you over to my list. (
              > Begging
              > actually that you at least visit :-) ) We have had a few expat Scot
              > females
              > on the list, ( and a few American females marrying into Scotland
              > residence)
              > ... but most with a more recent perspective on the issues.
              >
              >
              >
              > Nora and everybody else is also welcome; But Charlotte, please consider
              > spending some time with my folks at FreeScots. If too much for you ...
              > you
              > can promote input to your collections, advertise the collection a bit ...
              > then go to no mail or move on. ( I have access to a first person in
              > Scotland
              > written clearance experience that may be custom made for your article
              > collection if you are interested.)
              >
              >
              >
              > I think a few perspectives from you might turn a few of the lad's
              > arguments
              > on their heads. We've done over 22,000 messages in five years. We have
              > active expats, Diasporans ( US, AU, CN and elsewhere) as well as
              > residents
              > all over Scotland and the South Isle ( and the political spectrum too)
              > ( We
              > make them behave ... but argument, emotion and vitriol is there.) Its
              > also
              > a great place to pose a question and get several slants in answer.
              >
              >
              >
              > I am Rex H. McTyeire, US ( Exile descended ... Mother's maiden: McCranie)
              > The first Jacobite refugee ... out of Tain, the second forcibly cleared.
              >
              >
              >
              > A blank email to
              >
              > < FreeScots-subscribe@yahoogroups.com >
              >
              >
              >
              > ... .gets you in too look about.
              >
              > Or see the list site here:
              >
              > < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreeScots/ >
              >
              >
              >
              > Thanks for considering us, Charlotte, and please remember that we are
              > here,
              > and help spread the word.
              >
              > Rex H. McTyeire
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:dundee-history@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of Charlotte Juarez
              > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:19 PM
              > To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Researching 1879 collapse of Tay Bridge for
              > Novel
              >
              >
              >
              > Dear Nora - my name is Charlotte bleh - born and raised in Dundee 1947 -
              >
              > 1965 when I left for America. You may want to check out my stories at
              >
              > www.electricscotland.com under "Stories and Stovies" for dundee lore.
              > Also
              >
              > if you are interested in establishing a corresponding friendship with me,
              >
              > I'd be glad to collaborate with you and provide you with background on my
              >
              > own granny in Dundee who raised me on stories about her own granny and
              >
              > highland background of weavers who came to Dundee from Stanley about the
              >
              > time you're contemplating as the period of your semi biographical novel.
              > My
              >
              >
              > educational background is, obviously, literature/poetry/storytelling and
              > I'd
              >
              >
              > be glad to share. I'm currently trying to complete a 31 chapter
              > collection
              >
              > of stories about growing up in Dundee which may provide colour and
              >
              > imagination of life in the tenements - which were, as a matter of fact,
              >
              > built by the jute barons as homes for their workers - again, many of whom
              >
              > came in from the country as home industry weavers as a result of the
              >
              > industrial revolution when steam demolished the home weaver industry. My
              >
              > mother was a "dundee weaver" and my great grandfather drove clydesdales
              > for
              >
              > the mills from the dundee docks where the raw jute landed from india.
              >
              > Titillating, but true, my granny was widowed in the great war 1918 and in
              >
              > 1930 or so had an affair with the married son of a jute mill family and
              > sued
              >
              >
              > him in court for the rights to give his name to their son whose legal
              >
              > surname was Neish or Thomas (neish for the man, thomas my grandmothers
              >
              > married name). Adding to that story, Eric later died and was buried on
              > his
              >
              > 15th birthday. I grew up in a wally close tenement and there was an old
              >
              > maid in her eighties named Miss Laurie who used to tell me stories about
              > her
              >
              >
              > childhood - and I remember her telling me "o' the nicht the brig went
              > doon"
              >
              > - so I got the story first hand. I live in Phoenix, cell phoen 602
              >
              > .418.7689 if you want to call me. Best, Charlotte (PS my children say I'm
              > a
              >
              >
              > "fount of useless information" but also say the stories will "mean a lot
              >
              > more to us when you're gone." Nice Kids! :)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >>From: "noraweinberger" <nora@...>
              >
              >>Reply-To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >>To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >>Subject: [dundee-history] Researching 1879 collapse of Tay Bridge for
              >>Novel
              >
              >>Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 04:29:16 -0000
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>Hello to you all.
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>My name is Nora, an American, one quarter your Scots Kin! I wonder
              >
              >>
              >
              >>if I might enlist the help of the group? I am writing a Historic
              >
              >>
              >
              >>Romance novel loosely based on the extraordinary women of my Scots
              >
              >>
              >
              >>heritage. My Grandmother, Ann Maize, was born in 1879 in Milton,
              >
              >>
              >
              >>Lanark (or is it `Lanarkshire'?). My research on my Grandmother's
              >
              >>
              >
              >>actual birthplace, I will admit, was limited. But, little Milton
              >
              >>
              >
              >>seemed to lack the pizzazz needed as a `backdrop' for the story.
              >
              >>
              >
              >>However, Dundee kept leaping up everywhere on the internet, 1879
              >
              >>
              >
              >>being the year the original Tay Railroad Bridge collapsed. This
              >
              >>
              >
              >>seemed a fitting place to set the story, my Grandmother Ann having
              >
              >>
              >
              >>her own railroading history as an early pioneer of the Alaska
              >
              >>
              >
              >>Territory - my Grandfather a steamfitter who worked to build the
              >
              >>
              >
              >>Great Alaska Railroad.
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>It is a year since I began this project, and I have surrounded
              >
              >>
              >
              >>myself with books, maps and photos of Dundee - your own
              >
              >>
              >
              >>dundeecity.gov.uk web site being an invaluable resource. I have
              >
              >>
              >
              >>come to love your fair city, as if Dundee were truly the city of my
              >
              >>
              >
              >>own heritage. It becomes ever more important to me that I represent
              >
              >>
              >
              >>this event in your city's history with as much accuracy as
              >
              >>
              >
              >>possible. So. this is where your help comes in. I was fortunate to
              >
              >>
              >
              >>discover Professor Swinfen's book `The Fall of the Tay Bridge', but
              >
              >>
              >
              >>I'm hoping there is one among you (or one of you who knows someone)
              >
              >>
              >
              >>who is a sage on the subject and is willing to correspond on
              >
              >>
              >
              >>occasion by e-mail.
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>BUT, I have so many more questions!
              >
              >>
              >
              >>*I would assume the coal burning of the city's dense population and
              >
              >>
              >
              >>Jute Mills would have made for extremely polluted skies over 19th
              >
              >>
              >
              >>Century Dundee, would this be a correct assumption?
              >
              >>
              >
              >>*Does anyone know of a facility where one might hold a Ball/Assembly
              >
              >>
              >
              >>during that time period?
              >
              >>
              >
              >>*Can someone give me a general overview of the seasonal weather in
              >
              >>
              >
              >>Dundee?
              >
              >>
              >
              >>*Just how long are the evenings in Winter? And how long are the
              >
              >>
              >
              >>days in Summer?
              >
              >>
              >
              >>*And you Astrologers: What is the best season for clear skies and
              >
              >>
              >
              >>star gazing? What constellations are in the skies over Scotland.
              >
              >>
              >
              >>and is
              >
              >>
              >
              >>there any Scots Folklore to these constellations?
              >
              >>
              >
              >>*And a little bit about the flora of the area - I've learned a lot
              >
              >>
              >
              >>about the Oslin, or Arbroath, Pippin Apple - cultivated in the early
              >
              >>
              >
              >>1800's by the monks of the Abbey! What else blooms and grows? What
              >
              >>
              >
              >>are those beautiful trees that bloom along Victoria Road?
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>I welcome any and all input! I thank you all for taking the time to
              >
              >>
              >
              >>read this. and thank you in advance for any help you can lend.
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>Regards,
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>Nora Weinberger
              >
              >>
              >
              >>nora@...
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>Please remember to bookmark our Home Page. Those with Yahoo IDs will be
              >
              >>able to view our Archives of Messages,Files, and Bookmarks. Go to:
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
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              >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dundee-history
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              >>
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              >>
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              >> SPONSORED LINKS
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              >> Visit your group "dundee-history" on the web.
              >
              >>
              >
              >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >
              >> dundee-history-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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            • Grant E. L. Buttars
              You should read Victorian Dundee: Image and Realities Miskell Louise Whatley C, MOR, Louise Miskell (Editor), Christopher A. Whatley (Editor), Bob Harris
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 7, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                You should read "Victorian Dundee: Image and Realities"
                Miskell Louise Whatley C, MOR, Louise Miskell (Editor), Christopher
                A. Whatley (Editor), Bob Harris (Editor)
                See http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/186232171X/026-5800604-
                2362853

                This collection of essays covers multiple aspects of Dundee's
                history during this period and would give you quite a comprehensive
                backdrop.

                There are a lot of sites around about the disaster, including a good
                forensic examination at
                http://www.open2.net/forensic_engineering/riddle/riddle_01.htm

                Regards,

                Grant Buttars

                --- In dundee-history@yahoogroups.com, "Nora Weinberger" <nora@i...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Hello Rex,
                >
                >
                >
                > You may be just the man I need to talk to. or maybe someone in the
                group can
                > point me in the right direction. I am very interested in the
                sociopolitical
                > impact of the entire circumstance that leads up to the building
                the Tay
                > Bridge, its collapse and the aftermath.
                >
                >
                >
                > First, let me share. I do not consider myself a political animal.
                I sit in
                > the middle somewhere, entertain and consider both sides of most
                arguments,
                > and tend to form opinions on each issue separately - independent
                of an
                > entire party line and/or rhetoric. In short, I frustrate the heck
                out of
                > people with political passion. It is not my intent to make a
                political
                > statement with this book, far from it. But, as I research and
                learn more
                > about the Victorian Era, its morals and mores, the general hubris
                of the
                > Industrial Revolution and in particular, what appears to be
                negligence by
                > those involved in building the Tay Bridge. I get a bit riled.
                >
                >
                >
                > If I am not mistaken, the collapse of the Tay Bridge was the
                first 'disaster'
                > of its kind. Never before had such a great loss of life been
                directly
                > attributed to the failure of a man-made structure and/or
                machinery - not a
                > war, famine, flood or earthquake - but as a result of man's own
                invention
                > and ambition, unchecked and unquestioned during the Industrial
                Revolution.
                > This was a wake-up call. The political and social ramifications
                of such an
                > event must have been far reaching. and I am extremely interested
                in knowing
                > what the public opinion was in its aftermath.
                >
                >
                >
                > Additionally, I wonder how the citizens of Dundee viewed the
                overcrowding of
                > their city, the resulting sanitary issues and what I would assume
                to be very
                > polluted skies. brought about by the advent of the Jute Industry.
                I would
                > think many Dundonians mourned the loss of their 'fair city' for
                the sake of
                > 'progress'. But, I only surmise such a sentiment and wonder if it
                has
                > validity or basis in reality.
                >
                >
                >
                > There is true-to-life circumstance in the lives of my Grandmother
                and Great
                > Grandmother that will be part of the story. Issues such as
                illegitimacy,
                > the examination of Excommunication and/or Public Repentance as a
                result of
                > such, and insanity (supposed). all controversial topics. I refer
                to this
                > 'insanity' as supposed, because I am shocked to find just how
                easily one
                > could find themselves institutionalized in an insane asylum during
                that era.
                > The high percentage of women institutionalized is a staggering
                statistic and
                > I am of the opinion it is mostly due to a lack of women's rights
                in that
                > day. A situation I believe they shared with the indigent, as it
                appears
                > there is a correlation between the 'Poor Law' and the result of
                asylums as a
                > convenient repository for the poor. Again, any feedback on this
                issue is
                > welcome.
                >
                >
                >
                > It is my goal to present the subject matter with as much
                historical accuracy
                > as possible. Any input is welcome and appreciated.
                >
                >
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                >
                >
                > Nora
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Rex H. McTyeire" <rexoid@c...>
                > To: <dundee-history@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 12:53 PM
                > Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Researching 1879 collapse of Tay
                Bridge for
                > Novel
                >
                >
                > > Fascinated, Charlotte. ( Hello Nora too ! ) I just lurk about
                here to pick
                > > up lil tidbits of info, been here a while. My interest is
                generically
                > > historic Scot, all periods, all regions, as well as promoting
                > > understanding
                > > between Scottish residents and Diaspora descended, sprinkled
                with a large
                > > dose of current Scottish politics.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > PLEASE Charlotte :-) ... your insight would be most valuable to
                my
                > > efforts.
                > > If you can stand political argument ... and wish to promote
                and
                > > reference
                > > your on line articles, collect more, as well as contribute to
                political
                > > discussions for Scotland's future ...( and defend truth in
                history on all
                > > Scot subjects) ... I would like to invite you over to my
                list. (
                > > Begging
                > > actually that you at least visit :-) ) We have had a few expat
                Scot
                > > females
                > > on the list, ( and a few American females marrying into Scotland
                > > residence)
                > > ... but most with a more recent perspective on the issues.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Nora and everybody else is also welcome; But Charlotte, please
                consider
                > > spending some time with my folks at FreeScots. If too much for
                you ...
                > > you
                > > can promote input to your collections, advertise the collection
                a bit ...
                > > then go to no mail or move on. ( I have access to a first person
                in
                > > Scotland
                > > written clearance experience that may be custom made for your
                article
                > > collection if you are interested.)
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I think a few perspectives from you might turn a few of the
                lad's
                > > arguments
                > > on their heads. We've done over 22,000 messages in five years.
                We have
                > > active expats, Diasporans ( US, AU, CN and elsewhere) as well
                as
                > > residents
                > > all over Scotland and the South Isle ( and the political
                spectrum too)
                > > ( We
                > > make them behave ... but argument, emotion and vitriol is
                there.) Its
                > > also
                > > a great place to pose a question and get several slants in
                answer.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I am Rex H. McTyeire, US ( Exile descended ... Mother's maiden:
                McCranie)
                > > The first Jacobite refugee ... out of Tain, the second forcibly
                cleared.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > A blank email to
                > >
                > > < FreeScots-subscribe@yahoogroups.com >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ... .gets you in too look about.
                > >
                > > Or see the list site here:
                > >
                > > < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreeScots/ >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Thanks for considering us, Charlotte, and please remember that
                we are
                > > here,
                > > and help spread the word.
                > >
                > > Rex H. McTyeire
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                > > [mailto:dundee-history@yahoogroups.com]
                > > On Behalf Of Charlotte Juarez
                > > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:19 PM
                > > To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Researching 1879 collapse of Tay
                Bridge for
                > > Novel
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Dear Nora - my name is Charlotte bleh - born and raised in
                Dundee 1947 -
                > >
                > > 1965 when I left for America. You may want to check out my
                stories at
                > >
                > > www.electricscotland.com under "Stories and Stovies" for dundee
                lore.
                > > Also
                > >
                > > if you are interested in establishing a corresponding friendship
                with me,
                > >
                > > I'd be glad to collaborate with you and provide you with
                background on my
                > >
                > > own granny in Dundee who raised me on stories about her own
                granny and
                > >
                > > highland background of weavers who came to Dundee from Stanley
                about the
                > >
                > > time you're contemplating as the period of your semi
                biographical novel.
                > > My
                > >
                > >
                > > educational background is, obviously,
                literature/poetry/storytelling and
                > > I'd
                > >
                > >
                > > be glad to share. I'm currently trying to complete a 31 chapter
                > > collection
                > >
                > > of stories about growing up in Dundee which may provide colour
                and
                > >
                > > imagination of life in the tenements - which were, as a matter
                of fact,
                > >
                > > built by the jute barons as homes for their workers - again,
                many of whom
                > >
                > > came in from the country as home industry weavers as a result of
                the
                > >
                > > industrial revolution when steam demolished the home weaver
                industry. My
                > >
                > > mother was a "dundee weaver" and my great grandfather drove
                clydesdales
                > > for
                > >
                > > the mills from the dundee docks where the raw jute landed from
                india.
                > >
                > > Titillating, but true, my granny was widowed in the great war
                1918 and in
                > >
                > > 1930 or so had an affair with the married son of a jute mill
                family and
                > > sued
                > >
                > >
                > > him in court for the rights to give his name to their son whose
                legal
                > >
                > > surname was Neish or Thomas (neish for the man, thomas my
                grandmothers
                > >
                > > married name). Adding to that story, Eric later died and was
                buried on
                > > his
                > >
                > > 15th birthday. I grew up in a wally close tenement and there
                was an old
                > >
                > > maid in her eighties named Miss Laurie who used to tell me
                stories about
                > > her
                > >
                > >
                > > childhood - and I remember her telling me "o' the nicht the brig
                went
                > > doon"
                > >
                > > - so I got the story first hand. I live in Phoenix, cell phoen
                602
                > >
                > > .418.7689 if you want to call me. Best, Charlotte (PS my
                children say I'm
                > > a
                > >
                > >
                > > "fount of useless information" but also say the stories
                will "mean a lot
                > >
                > > more to us when you're gone." Nice Kids! :)
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >>From: "noraweinberger" <nora@i...>
                > >
                > >>Reply-To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >>To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >>Subject: [dundee-history] Researching 1879 collapse of Tay
                Bridge for
                > >>Novel
                > >
                > >>Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 04:29:16 -0000
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>Hello to you all.
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>My name is Nora, an American, one quarter your Scots Kin! I
                wonder
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>if I might enlist the help of the group? I am writing a Historic
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>Romance novel loosely based on the extraordinary women of my
                Scots
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>heritage. My Grandmother, Ann Maize, was born in 1879 in Milton,
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>Lanark (or is it `Lanarkshire'?). My research on my
                Grandmother's
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>actual birthplace, I will admit, was limited. But, little Milton
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>seemed to lack the pizzazz needed as a `backdrop' for the story.
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>However, Dundee kept leaping up everywhere on the internet, 1879
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>being the year the original Tay Railroad Bridge collapsed. This
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>seemed a fitting place to set the story, my Grandmother Ann
                having
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>her own railroading history as an early pioneer of the Alaska
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>Territory - my Grandfather a steamfitter who worked to build the
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>Great Alaska Railroad.
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>It is a year since I began this project, and I have surrounded
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>myself with books, maps and photos of Dundee - your own
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>dundeecity.gov.uk web site being an invaluable resource. I have
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>come to love your fair city, as if Dundee were truly the city of
                my
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>own heritage. It becomes ever more important to me that I
                represent
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>this event in your city's history with as much accuracy as
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>possible. So. this is where your help comes in. I was
                fortunate to
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>discover Professor Swinfen's book `The Fall of the Tay Bridge',
                but
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>I'm hoping there is one among you (or one of you who knows
                someone)
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>who is a sage on the subject and is willing to correspond on
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>occasion by e-mail.
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>BUT, I have so many more questions!
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>*I would assume the coal burning of the city's dense population
                and
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>Jute Mills would have made for extremely polluted skies over 19th
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>Century Dundee, would this be a correct assumption?
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>*Does anyone know of a facility where one might hold a
                Ball/Assembly
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>during that time period?
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>*Can someone give me a general overview of the seasonal weather
                in
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>Dundee?
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>*Just how long are the evenings in Winter? And how long are the
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>days in Summer?
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>*And you Astrologers: What is the best season for clear skies and
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>star gazing? What constellations are in the skies over Scotland.
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>and is
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>there any Scots Folklore to these constellations?
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>*And a little bit about the flora of the area - I've learned a
                lot
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>about the Oslin, or Arbroath, Pippin Apple - cultivated in the
                early
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>1800's by the monks of the Abbey! What else blooms and grows?
                What
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>are those beautiful trees that bloom along Victoria Road?
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>I welcome any and all input! I thank you all for taking the
                time to
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>read this. and thank you in advance for any help you can lend.
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>Regards,
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>Nora Weinberger
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>nora@i...
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>Please remember to bookmark our Home Page. Those with Yahoo IDs
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                > >
                > >>able to view our Archives of Messages,Files, and Bookmarks. Go
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                > >>
                > >
                > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dundee-history
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >
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                > >
                > >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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                > >> Visit your group "dundee-history" on the web.
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                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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