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Re: [dundee-history] Re: NORTH ELLEN STREET

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  • Meille3@aol.com
    Catherine, Don....Read with great interest your exchanges regarding Hilltown....My GGGrandfather has been listed on all the birth, death, etc. certificates as
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 17, 2001
      Catherine, Don....Read with great interest your exchanges regarding
      Hilltown....My
      GGGrandfather has been listed on all the birth, death, etc. certificates as a
      'weaver"
      after doing the same in Co. Cavan, which they left, probabaly either because
      of relig-
      ious difficulties there or the lure of better work in Dundee. My GGF's bride
      and father
      also are listed as weavers; the former as "handloom" weaver (would that mean
      most
      likely she was working at home?). Would firms for whom they may have worked
      have any record keeping mechanisms in place at that time.....or were employees
      just "paid in cash on Friday"????
      Also, curiously, would l3l Hilltown and/or 55 Rosebank streets still
      be in exist-
      ance. My GGF and his bride lived at the Hilltown address after their
      marriage (even
      then husbands moved in with the in-laws!) but had been at the Rosebank
      address be-
      fore his marriage. Also (although I doubt it) are those buildings still in
      existance?
      Would certainly appreciate any information any of you might have.
      Barbara



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ivo
      Hi Don, thank you so much for that info about North Ellen Street. Both my parents lived in Dundee till their thirties but could nt tell me much about the
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 17, 2001
        Hi Don, thank you so much for that info about North Ellen Street. Both my
        parents lived in Dundee till their thirties but could'nt tell me much about
        the buildings even though my dad did his bakers apprentiship accross the
        road from the Ann Street building. One more question, where do I see the
        photo of the horses. An attachment did'nt show or a web site highlighted.
        Like I said I'm new even to the computer.
        best wishes
        Catherine Perth Western Australia
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <angels30@...>
        To: <dundee-history@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 5:18 AM
        Subject: [dundee-history] Re: NORTH ELLEN STREET


        > Catherine,
        >
        > It occurs to me on reflection, that perhaps the houses with
        > ornamental heads, which were normally mounted underneath and either
        > side of the window ledge were properties belonging to the jute owners
        > ie Grimond and others. I recall that the property on the corner of
        > Ann St/Hilltown, was also opposite a Jute Mill, so maybe that was it ?
        >
        > If you look carefully at the photo of Bowbridge Works you will notice
        > two Clydesdale Horse's standing in an archway, these were probably
        > having their cart loade with flax or jute bales. They are very regal
        > and gigantic creatures the muscle-men of the animal kingdom. They
        > were expected to pull a fully laden cart up a slope like the Hilltown
        > which on its access from Victoria Road must have had an incline of
        > about 1 in 10 if not steeper. They were frequently seen to slip on
        > that gradient especially in wet weather. Their load was usually about
        > five bales of about 4ft diameter - a fair weight for any animal.
        >
        > Regards
        >
        > Don
        >
        >
        >
        > Don't forget to update your Bookmarks cum Favourites.
        >
        > our old ones won't work ! Re-set to
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dundee-history
        >
        > All our Archives will be found there.
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Ivo
        Hi Barbara, thanks for your message. I m really new, infact just joined this week the Dundee History site. Would 131 Hilltown or 55 Rosebanks Street still be
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 17, 2001
          Hi Barbara, thanks for your message. I'm really new, infact just joined
          this week the Dundee History site. Would 131 Hilltown or 55 Rosebanks
          Street still be there, I would if I was you post it and ask for someone who
          lives in Dundee to help you. If I could help you I would dearly love to.
          Good luck
          Catherine
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <Meille3@...>
          To: <dundee-history@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 5:52 AM
          Subject: Re: [dundee-history] Re: NORTH ELLEN STREET


          > Catherine, Don....Read with great interest your exchanges regarding
          > Hilltown....My
          > GGGrandfather has been listed on all the birth, death, etc. certificates
          as a
          > 'weaver"
          > after doing the same in Co. Cavan, which they left, probabaly either
          because
          > of relig-
          > ious difficulties there or the lure of better work in Dundee. My GGF's
          bride
          > and father
          > also are listed as weavers; the former as "handloom" weaver (would that
          mean
          > most
          > likely she was working at home?). Would firms for whom they may have
          worked
          > have any record keeping mechanisms in place at that time.....or were
          employees
          > just "paid in cash on Friday"????
          > Also, curiously, would l3l Hilltown and/or 55 Rosebank streets
          still
          > be in exist-
          > ance. My GGF and his bride lived at the Hilltown address after their
          > marriage (even
          > then husbands moved in with the in-laws!) but had been at the Rosebank
          > address be-
          > fore his marriage. Also (although I doubt it) are those buildings still
          in
          > existance?
          > Would certainly appreciate any information any of you might have.
          > Barbara
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > Don't forget to update your Bookmarks cum Favourites.
          >
          > our old ones won't work ! Re-set to
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dundee-history
          >
          > All our Archives will be found there.
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • angels30@ntlworld.com
          ... Both my ... much about ... accross the ... see the ... highlighted. ... Hi Catherine, See my last post to Banjo 046, re corrections to my post to you on
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 18, 2001
            --- In dundee-history@y..., "Ivo" <cvj@d...> wrote:
            > Hi Don, thank you so much for that info about North Ellen Street.
            Both my
            > parents lived in Dundee till their thirties but could'nt tell me
            much about
            > the buildings even though my dad did his bakers apprentiship
            accross the
            > road from the Ann Street building. One more question, where do I
            see the
            > photo of the horses. An attachment did'nt show or a web site
            highlighted.
            > Like I said I'm new even to the computer.
            > best wishes
            > Catherine Perth Western Australia
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: <angels30@n...>
            > To: <dundee-history@y...>
            > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 5:18 AM
            > Subject: [dundee-history] Re: NORTH ELLEN STREET
            >
            Hi Catherine,

            See my last post to Banjo 046, re corrections to my post to you on
            Ellen St. Sorry about the errors - fading memory!!!

            If you go to :

            http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dundee-history/lst

            and click on the folder "Dundee Buildings etc" you should see a
            picture of Bowbridge Bridge Works if you look through the main arch
            at the entrance to the works, you will see a smaller arch with the
            bodies of two Clydesdale horses sticking out, they are presumably
            waiting to be loaded.

            Hope this helps

            Don
            >
            > > Catherine,
            > >
            > > It occurs to me on reflection, that perhaps the houses with
            > > ornamental heads, which were normally mounted underneath and
            either
            > > side of the window ledge were properties belonging to the jute
            owners
            > > ie Grimond and others. I recall that the property on the corner of
            > > Ann St/Hilltown, was also opposite a Jute Mill, so maybe that was
            it ?
            > >
            > > If you look carefully at the photo of Bowbridge Works you will
            notice
            > > two Clydesdale Horse's standing in an archway, these were probably
            > > having their cart loade with flax or jute bales. They are very
            regal
            > > and gigantic creatures the muscle-men of the animal kingdom. They
            > > were expected to pull a fully laden cart up a slope like the
            Hilltown
            > > which on its access from Victoria Road must have had an incline of
            > > about 1 in 10 if not steeper. They were frequently seen to slip on
            > > that gradient especially in wet weather. Their load was usually
            about
            > > five bales of about 4ft diameter - a fair weight for any animal.
            > >
            > > Regards
            > >
            > > Don
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Don't forget to update your Bookmarks cum Favourites.
            > >
            > > our old ones won't work ! Re-set to
            > >
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dundee-history
            > >
            > > All our Archives will be found there.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
          • angels30@ntlworld.com
            ... certificates as a ... either because ... GGF s bride ... that mean ... have worked ... were employees ... streets still ... their ... Rosebank ... still in
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 18, 2001
              --- In dundee-history@y..., Meille3@a... wrote:
              > Catherine, Don....Read with great interest your exchanges regarding
              > Hilltown....My
              > GGGrandfather has been listed on all the birth, death, etc.
              certificates as a
              > 'weaver"
              > after doing the same in Co. Cavan, which they left, probabaly
              either because
              > of relig-
              > ious difficulties there or the lure of better work in Dundee. My
              GGF's bride
              > and father
              > also are listed as weavers; the former as "handloom" weaver (would
              that mean
              > most
              > likely she was working at home?). Would firms for whom they may
              have worked
              > have any record keeping mechanisms in place at that time.....or
              were employees
              > just "paid in cash on Friday"????
              > Also, curiously, would l3l Hilltown and/or 55 Rosebank
              streets still
              > be in exist-
              > ance. My GGF and his bride lived at the Hilltown address after
              their
              > marriage (even
              > then husbands moved in with the in-laws!) but had been at the
              Rosebank
              > address be-
              > fore his marriage. Also (although I doubt it) are those buildings
              still in
              > existance?
              > Would certainly appreciate any information any of you might
              have.
              > Barbara
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              Barbara,

              I have some *accurate* information re Irish immigrants to Dundee
              especially the hilltown and possibly around your GGGF's era although
              not specific to him. I doubt that they would have moved for the
              reason of "better working conditions" the living and working
              conditions of Irish immigrants were little better than those of
              animals and their wages desperately poor. I'll try and put something
              together for you!!!

              Regards

              Don
            • Meille3@aol.com
              Don...Just got your message. Thank you, thank you!! I d appreciate anything you could find relative to Mary Ann and Alex s time in Dundee... From what I d
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 18, 2001
                Don...Just got your message. Thank you, thank you!! I'd appreciate anything
                you
                could find relative to Mary Ann and Alex's time in Dundee...
                From what I'd read previously I didn't really expect that working
                conditions would
                be better than what they may have been in Co. Cavan - I think there may
                already
                have been Gambles in Dundee (1) and (2) according to family records Alex's
                family
                left Co. Cavan in 1841 - just at the time of (apparently) rather severe
                uprisings in the
                area (My family was Church of Ireland and according to several other bits and
                pieces
                of Irish history, Co. Cavan was very predominantly Catholic.)
                Looking forward with great anticipation to what ever you may be able
                to find....
                Again, thanks so much Barb Gamble Kennedy
                Columbia, MO USA


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ken Anton
                Hello everyone. Here s some info I have posted previously, but will hopefully help some of the newcomers! To find out if an address still exists, go to the
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 19, 2001
                  Hello everyone.

                  Here's some info I have posted previously, but will hopefully help some of
                  the newcomers!

                  To find out if an address still exists, go to the Royal Mail web site to
                  find the postal code:
                  http://www.royalmail.co.uk/quick_tools/postcodes/default.htm

                  Select PostCode Finder, and enter the address. If it still exists, you will
                  get the postcode.
                  E.g. for 55 Rosebank Street, the postcode is DD3 6LZ.

                  The postcode narrows the area down to about a dozen addresses.

                  Now go to the MultiMap web site
                  http://uk.multimap.com

                  and enter the postcode.
                  On the main map pages, a red circle shows the approximate vicinity.
                  Alternatively, use the "Aerial Photos" page for a photo of the area.

                  Although you may not necessarily be able to work out the exact house/flat,
                  you will get a general appreciation of the area.

                  Hope this helps!

                  Best regards

                  Ken Anton



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Ivo [mailto:cvj@...]
                  Sent: 18 November 2001 06:52
                  To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [dundee-history] Re: NORTH ELLEN STREET

                  Hi Barbara, thanks for your message. I'm really new, infact just joined
                  this week the Dundee History site. Would 131 Hilltown or 55 Rosebanks
                  Street still be there, I would if I was you post it and ask for someone who
                  lives in Dundee to help you. If I could help you I would dearly love to.
                  Good luck
                  Catherine
                • Ivo
                  Hi Ken, This is a great site, thanks for bringing it to our attention. Catherine ... From: Ken Anton To:
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 20, 2001
                    Hi Ken,
                    This is a great site, thanks for bringing it to our attention.
                    Catherine
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Ken Anton <ken.anton@...>
                    To: <dundee-history@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 9:12 PM
                    Subject: RE: [dundee-history] Re: NORTH ELLEN STREET


                    > Hello everyone.
                    >
                    > Here's some info I have posted previously, but will hopefully help some of
                    > the newcomers!
                    >
                    > To find out if an address still exists, go to the Royal Mail web site to
                    > find the postal code:
                    > http://www.royalmail.co.uk/quick_tools/postcodes/default.htm
                    >
                    > Select PostCode Finder, and enter the address. If it still exists, you
                    will
                    > get the postcode.
                    > E.g. for 55 Rosebank Street, the postcode is DD3 6LZ.
                    >
                    > The postcode narrows the area down to about a dozen addresses.
                    >
                    > Now go to the MultiMap web site
                    > http://uk.multimap.com
                    >
                    > and enter the postcode.
                    > On the main map pages, a red circle shows the approximate vicinity.
                    > Alternatively, use the "Aerial Photos" page for a photo of the area.
                    >
                    > Although you may not necessarily be able to work out the exact house/flat,
                    > you will get a general appreciation of the area.
                    >
                    > Hope this helps!
                    >
                    > Best regards
                    >
                    > Ken Anton
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Ivo [mailto:cvj@...]
                    > Sent: 18 November 2001 06:52
                    > To: dundee-history@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [dundee-history] Re: NORTH ELLEN STREET
                    >
                    > Hi Barbara, thanks for your message. I'm really new, infact just joined
                    > this week the Dundee History site. Would 131 Hilltown or 55 Rosebanks
                    > Street still be there, I would if I was you post it and ask for someone
                    who
                    > lives in Dundee to help you. If I could help you I would dearly love to.
                    > Good luck
                    > Catherine
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Don't forget to update your Bookmarks cum Favourites.
                    >
                    > our old ones won't work ! Re-set to
                    >
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dundee-history
                    >
                    > All our Archives will be found there.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                  • danifax
                    A Hand Loom Weaver was just that, a weaver operating a hand loom. The contrary was the Power Loom Weaver, or Steam Loom Weaver. Yes, one might be the cottage
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 9, 2001
                      A Hand Loom Weaver was just that, a weaver operating a hand loom. The
                      contrary was the Power Loom Weaver, or Steam Loom Weaver. Yes, one
                      might be the cottage industry, the other a mill worker. Dundee took
                      on many of those fleeing the potatoe famine, some records show as
                      much as one third of all those reaching Scotland.

                      --- In dundee-history@y..., angels30@n... wrote:
                      > --- In dundee-history@y..., Meille3@a... wrote:
                      > > Catherine, Don....Read with great interest your exchanges
                      regarding
                      > > Hilltown....My
                      > > GGGrandfather has been listed on all the birth, death, etc.
                      > certificates as a
                      > > 'weaver"
                      > > after doing the same in Co. Cavan, which they left, probabaly
                      > either because
                      > > of relig-
                      > > ious difficulties there or the lure of better work in Dundee. My
                      > GGF's bride
                      > > and father
                      > > also are listed as weavers; the former as "handloom" weaver
                      (would
                      > that mean
                      > > most
                      > > likely she was working at home?).
                    • Meille3@aol.com
                      Thanks for the affirmation re hand loom weavers...although I m not sure (and really have no idea of how to) whether they left Co. Cavan because of religious
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 9, 2001
                        Thanks for the affirmation re hand loom weavers...although I'm not sure (and
                        really
                        have no idea of how to) whether they left Co. Cavan because of religious
                        intolerance
                        (sp?) or the famine...Since what we've been able to find to date (the Gamble
                        family
                        leaving between 1834 and 1841) I tend to think it was religion...but 161
                        years later,
                        who knows?
                        My previous message asked about the possibility of names at the given
                        addresses; that would really be a help. So far it's been quite a challenge
                        to uncover
                        brothers and sisters of my GGF & GGM.... Thanks so much!!
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