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Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

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  • Graham Todd
    ... Hash: SHA1 As far as I understand things, Magnum Opus Press no longer publishes Dragon Warriors and has no interest in doing so in future. Does this mean
    Message 1 of 29 , Aug 23, 2011
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      As far as I understand things, Magnum Opus Press no longer publishes
      "Dragon Warriors" and has no interest in doing so in future.

      Does this mean the main rulebook and supplements are no longer
      available? Or that they are no longer available from anyone else?

      I still have one or two supplements to obtain, but I'm receiving no
      reply from the email address of Magnum Opus Press so could any one on
      this list tell me where I might find them...other than eBay of course?

      To whom shall I go to ask for submission guidelines to submit scenarios
      or campaigns?

      - --
      Graham Todd
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    • Shaun Hately
      ... Serpent King Games has the licence. http://serpentking.com/?p=29 should sum things up for you. Things are still in progress in terms of getting things back
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 1, 2011
        On 24/08/2011 1:36 AM, Graham Todd wrote:
        > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
        > Hash: SHA1
        >
        > As far as I understand things, Magnum Opus Press no longer publishes
        > "Dragon Warriors" and has no interest in doing so in future.
        >
        > Does this mean the main rulebook and supplements are no longer
        > available? Or that they are no longer available from anyone else?
        >
        > I still have one or two supplements to obtain, but I'm receiving no
        > reply from the email address of Magnum Opus Press so could any one on
        > this list tell me where I might find them...other than eBay of course?
        >
        > To whom shall I go to ask for submission guidelines to submit scenarios
        > or campaigns?

        Serpent King Games has the licence.

        http://serpentking.com/?p=29

        should sum things up for you.

        Things are still in progress in terms of getting things back up and
        running. All the books except 'In From the Cold' are now once again
        available in PDF form through DriveThru RPG.

        http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=3582

        As I understand it, hard copy print is coming but I have no idea on
        timescale - somebody may have something to say on that officially. I
        know there are also plans progressing concerning the production of new
        material, but again, I'll leave it to official sources to share more
        about that, if they are ready to.
      • Ian Sturrock
        Thanks, Shaun! As Shaun said, we have all the books available as PDFs now, and are going to be making them available in print again, too, though this may well
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 1, 2011
          Thanks, Shaun!

          As Shaun said, we have all the books available as PDFs now, and are going to be making them available in print again, too, though this may well be as print-on-demand. Unfortunately the economics of the RPG industry these days are such that full, traditional print runs of several thousand copies (with the associated printing and warehousing costs) are no longer viable for most games, so a lot of older, more classic games are going print-on-demand. I know James was hoping that DW would take off around the world with the re-release, but it didn't quite happen; we have some long-term ideas that might let it happen, but in the meantime I think we have to plan for it to be something of a niche product, rather than a mass-market soaraway success. Yes, I think it's the best fantasy RPG around, or I wouldn't be publishing it, but most of the rest of the world hasn't caught on to that yet!

          We're working on the Players' Book now, hopefully for release later this year. I'm loath to commit to a firm release date yet. The book is pretty much written, but still needs playtesting, which could mean a rewrite or two. We're determined that we won't release it till it's right.

          --
          Ian Sturrock

          Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
          http://serpentking.com/

        • Patrick Murray
          Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same? ... From: Ian Sturrock To: dragwars
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 4, 2011

            Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
            To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:38 am
            Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

             
            Thanks, Shaun!

            As Shaun said, we have all the books available as PDFs now, and are going to be making them available in print again, too, though this may well be as print-on-demand. Unfortunately the economics of the RPG industry these days are such that full, traditional print runs of several thousand copies (with the associated printing and warehousing costs) are no longer viable for most games, so a lot of older, more classic games are going print-on-demand. I know James was hoping that DW would take off around the world with the re-release, but it didn't quite happen; we have some long-term ideas that might let it happen, but in the meantime I think we have to plan for it to be something of a niche product, rather than a mass-market soaraway success. Yes, I think it's the best fantasy RPG around, or I wouldn't be publishing it, but most of the rest of the world hasn't caught on to that yet!

            We're working on the Players' Book now, hopefully for release later this year. I'm loath to commit to a firm release date yet. The book is pretty much written, but still needs playtesting, which could mean a rewrite or two. We're determined that we won't release it till it's right.

            --
            Ian Sturrock

            Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
            http://serpentking.com/

          • Ian Sturrock
            ... No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 5, 2011
              On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
               

              Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?


              No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

              We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

              --
              Ian Sturrock

              Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
              http://serpentking.com/

            • Patrick Murray
              I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn t right and
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 5, 2011
                I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                 
                Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                 
                On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                 
                Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                --
                Ian Sturrock

                Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                http://serpentking.com/

              • kieran turley
                  I d be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I ve been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.  
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 5, 2011
                   
                  I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                   
                  Kieran

                  From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                  To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                   
                  I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                   
                  Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                  To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                   
                  On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                   
                  Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                  No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                  We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                  --
                  Ian Sturrock

                  Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                  http://serpentking.com/



                • Wayne Imlach
                  Raw Power is broken. Big time. Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude: Speed: 45 Range: 350m
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 6, 2011
                    Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                     
                    Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                     
                    Speed: 45
                    Range: 350m
                    Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                     
                    One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                     
                    It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                     
                    You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                     
                     
                    Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                     
                     

                     
                    I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                     
                    Kieran
                     
                    From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                    To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                     
                    I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                     
                    Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                    To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                     
                    On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                     
                    Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                    No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                    We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                    --
                    Ian Sturrock

                    Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                    http://serpentking.com/



                  • Patrick Murray
                    exactly, I ve posted house rules on this before also. i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn t work as it should. I make raw
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 6, 2011
                       
                      exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                       
                      i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn't work as it should.
                       
                      I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally with magical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you can only use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above your level. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can't perform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's just the dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                      As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types (exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viable character class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There is only one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that they are a different style of magic user but it still does not feel balanced for me.


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                      To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                       
                      Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                       
                      Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                       
                      Speed: 45
                      Range: 350m
                      Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                       
                      One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                       
                      It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                       
                      You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                       
                       
                      Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                       
                       
                       
                      I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                       
                      Kieran
                       
                      From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                      To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                       
                      I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                       
                      Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                      To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                       
                      On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                       
                      Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                      No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                      We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                      --
                      Ian Sturrock

                      Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                      http://serpentking.com/



                    • Christopher Loh
                      Raw Power This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loophole to be exploited. For me, I make the changes to raw power. - d3 progression - +1
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 6, 2011
                        Raw Power
                         
                        This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loophole to be exploited.
                         
                        For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                         
                        - d3 progression
                        - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                        - 3m progression
                        - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                        - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level can put in max 7 mps)
                         
                        This should take away most of the problem associated with raw power... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                         
                        Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw power but overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw power could still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range of slingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...
                         
                        I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with no healing power as well.
                         
                        Direct Attack spells
                         
                        I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells. Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grand total of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis). 
                         
                        Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which is likely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that they are able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In game effect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.

                        Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                         

                         
                        exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                         
                        i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn't work as it should.
                         
                        I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally with magical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you can only use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above your level. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can't perform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's just the dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                        As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types (exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viable character class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There is only one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that they are a different style of magic user but it still does not feel balanced for me.


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                        To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                         
                        Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                         
                        Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                         
                        Speed: 45
                        Range: 350m
                        Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                         
                        One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                         
                        It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                         
                        You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                         
                         
                        Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                         
                         
                         
                        I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                         
                        Kieran
                         
                        From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                        To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                         
                        I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                         
                        Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                        To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                         
                        On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                         
                        Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                        No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                        We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                        --
                        Ian Sturrock

                        Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                        http://serpentking.com/



                      • kieran turley
                        I d agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.   I d also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the pool associated with the dmg type...so fire
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 6, 2011
                          I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                           
                          I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the pool associated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the fire pool etc.
                           
                          Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack at the best of times. :)
                           
                          My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's other effects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop, filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast of water etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thing is so slow it's hardly worth it.
                           
                          Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of 2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of the Rank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight, Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out and one-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P
                           
                          Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totally useless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix. Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                           
                          Kieran
                           
                          From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                          To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                          Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                           
                          Raw Power
                           
                          This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loophole to be exploited.
                           
                          For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                           
                          - d3 progression
                          - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                          - 3m progression
                          - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                          - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level can put in max 7 mps)
                           
                          This should take away most of the problem associated with raw power... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                           
                          Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw power but overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw power could still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range of slingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...
                           
                          I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with no healing power as well.
                           
                          Direct Attack spells
                           
                          I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells. Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grand total of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis). 
                           
                          Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which is likely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that they are able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In game effect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.

                          Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                          Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                           
                           
                          exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                           
                          i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn't work as it should.
                           
                          I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally with magical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you can only use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above your level. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can't perform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's just the dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                          As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types (exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viable character class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There is only one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that they are a different style of magic user but it still does not feel balanced for me.


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                          To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                          Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                           
                          Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                           
                          Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                           
                          Speed: 45
                          Range: 350m
                          Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                           
                          One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                           
                          It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                           
                          You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                           
                           
                          Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                          Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                           
                           
                           
                          I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                           
                          Kieran
                           
                          From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                          To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                          Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                           
                          I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                           
                          Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                          To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                          Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                           
                          On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                           
                          Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                          No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                          We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                          --
                          Ian Sturrock

                          Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                          http://serpentking.com/





                        • Christopher Loh
                          Hmm... I guess the slow speed is likely to be due to your character being a relatively low level elementalist? A higher level elementalist will have raw power
                          Message 12 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                            Hmm...
                             
                            I guess the slow speed is likely to be due to your character being a relatively low level elementalist? A higher level elementalist will have raw power with exponential hit rate due to lower evasion progression. If we keep to the same progression, elementalist raw power would have higher speed than sorcerer. As elementalist has higher MPs than sorcerer of same level, it is important to ensure that sorcerer spells to be of ''better quality" than elementalist's. I would prefer sorcerer to be the ''best" wizard in the game in quantity and quality of spells. Of course, GM can always modify as they see fit Smile emoticon
                             
                            The long range of raw power should be seen as a potential unbalancing factor. If I am not wrong, Mystic blast and firestorm are longest range spells. Both have range of 30m. Personally feel that raw power should not have a longer range than Mystic or Sorcerer spells.
                             
                            Maybe we can also look at capping the max mp used in raw power to be 10 mp as well. For GMs who are playing epic games, above 10th level, even 3m per mp might be a long range for raw power as well.
                             
                            Most DW spells are relatively short range. Somehow the wizards in DW game like it up close and personal... D&D wizards typically will cast improved invisibility, stoneskin, fly and blast from the skies above with long range spells.
                             
                            DW spells are actually extremely damaging as well due to HP progression of adventuring class. So a d6 per mp damage is actually pretty damaging. Think of it as you are having a D&D lightning bold (d6hp per level) against +1hp per level warrior... Since increasing hp for warriors is bound to open a can of worms like our previous discussion, I would advocate d3 hp per mp.
                             
                            It is important to remember that elementalist can wear armour (up to plate armour) and has higher pool of mp than sorcerer.
                             
                            Thus any tweak should ensure that Sorcerer should still the top gun in spells. Highest damage, fastest speed and longest range. The elementalist blasting power due to raw power is like having a profession that can wear better armour than knights or higher hp than barbarians.
                             
                            What's your views on allowing Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used.
                             
                            At the same time giving elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.
                             
                            Chris Smile emoticon
                             

                            Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 2:22 PM
                            Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                             

                            I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                             
                            I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the pool associated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the fire pool etc.
                             
                            Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack at the best of times. :)
                             
                            My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's other effects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop, filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast of water etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thing is so slow it's hardly worth it.
                             
                            Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of 2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of the Rank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight, Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out and one-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P
                             
                            Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totally useless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix. Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                             
                            Kieran
                             
                            From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                            To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                            Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                             
                            Raw Power
                             
                            This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loophole to be exploited.
                             
                            For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                             
                            - d3 progression
                            - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                            - 3m progression
                            - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                            - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level can put in max 7 mps)
                             
                            This should take away most of the problem associated with raw power... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                             
                            Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw power but overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw power could still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range of slingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...
                             
                            I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with no healing power as well.
                             
                            Direct Attack spells
                             
                            I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells. Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grand total of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis). 
                             
                            Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which is likely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that they are able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In game effect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.

                            Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                            Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                             
                             
                            exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                             
                            i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn't work as it should.
                             
                            I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally with magical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you can only use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above your level. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can't perform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's just the dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                            As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types (exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viable character class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There is only one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that they are a different style of magic user but it still does not feel balanced for me.


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                            To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                            Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                             
                            Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                             
                            Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                             
                            Speed: 45
                            Range: 350m
                            Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                             
                            One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                             
                            It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                             
                            You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                             
                             
                            Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                            Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                             
                             
                             
                            I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                             
                            Kieran
                             
                            From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                            To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                            Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                             
                            I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                             
                            Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                            To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                            Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                             
                            On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                             
                            Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                            No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                            We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                            --
                            Ian Sturrock

                            Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                            http://serpentking.com/





                          • Patrick Murray
                            it s why i made it direct attack instead, you avoid the speed issue altogether. ... From: kieran turley To: dragwars
                            Message 13 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                              it's why i made it direct attack instead, you avoid the speed issue altogether.



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                              To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                              Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                               
                              I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                               
                              I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the pool associated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the fire pool etc.
                               
                              Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack at the best of times. :)
                               
                              My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's other effects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop, filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast of water etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thing is so slow it's hardly worth it.
                               
                              Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of 2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of the Rank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight, Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out and one-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P
                               
                              Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totally useless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix. Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                               
                              Kieran
                               
                              From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                              To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                              Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                               
                              Raw Power
                               
                              This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loophole to be exploited.
                               
                              For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                               
                              - d3 progression
                              - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                              - 3m progression
                              - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                              - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level can put in max 7 mps)
                               
                              This should take away most of the problem associated with raw power... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                               
                              Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw power but overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw power could still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range of slingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...
                               
                              I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with no healing power as well.
                               
                              Direct Attack spells
                               
                              I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells. Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grand total of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis). 
                               
                              Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which is likely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that they are able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In game effect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.

                              Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                              Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                               
                               
                              exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                               
                              i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn't work as it should.
                               
                              I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally with magical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you can only use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above your level. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can't perform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's just the dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                              As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types (exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viable character class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There is only one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that they are a different style of magic user but it still does not feel balanced for me.


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                              To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                              Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                               
                              Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                               
                              Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                               
                              Speed: 45
                              Range: 350m
                              Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                               
                              One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                               
                              It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                               
                              You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                               
                               
                              Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                              Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                               
                               
                               
                              I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                               
                              Kieran
                               
                              From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                              To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                              Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                               
                              I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                               
                              Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                              To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                              Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                               
                              On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                               
                              Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                              No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                              We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                              --
                              Ian Sturrock

                              Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                              http://serpentking.com/





                            • Patrick Murray
                              i use the 2hp per 1 mp thing as well. ... From: Christopher Loh To: dragwars Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:54 pm
                              Message 14 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                                i use the 2hp per 1 mp thing as well.



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:54 pm
                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                 
                                Hmm...
                                 
                                I guess the slow speed is likely to be due to your character being a relatively low level elementalist? A higher level elementalist will have raw power with exponential hit rate due to lower evasion progression. If we keep to the same progression, elementalist raw power would have higher speed than sorcerer. As elementalist has higher MPs than sorcerer of same level, it is important to ensure that sorcerer spells to be of ''better quality" than elementalist's. I would prefer sorcerer to be the ''best" wizard in the game in quantity and quality of spells. Of course, GM can always modify as they see fit Smile emoticon
                                 
                                The long range of raw power should be seen as a potential unbalancing factor. If I am not wrong, Mystic blast and firestorm are longest range spells. Both have range of 30m. Personally feel that raw power should not have a longer range than Mystic or Sorcerer spells.
                                 
                                Maybe we can also look at capping the max mp used in raw power to be 10 mp as well. For GMs who are playing epic games, above 10th level, even 3m per mp might be a long range for raw power as well.
                                 
                                Most DW spells are relatively short range. Somehow the wizards in DW game like it up close and personal... D&D wizards typically will cast improved invisibility, stoneskin, fly and blast from the skies above with long range spells.
                                 
                                DW spells are actually extremely damaging as well due to HP progression of adventuring class. So a d6 per mp damage is actually pretty damaging. Think of it as you are having a D&D lightning bold (d6hp per level) against +1hp per level warrior... Since increasing hp for warriors is bound to open a can of worms like our previous discussion, I would advocate d3 hp per mp.
                                 
                                It is important to remember that elementalist can wear armour (up to plate armour) and has higher pool of mp than sorcerer.
                                 
                                Thus any tweak should ensure that Sorcerer should still the top gun in spells. Highest damage, fastest speed and longest range. The elementalist blasting power due to raw power is like having a profession that can wear better armour than knights or higher hp than barbarians.
                                 
                                What's your views on allowing Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used.
                                 
                                At the same time giving elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.
                                 
                                Chris Smile emoticon
                                 

                                Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 2:22 PM
                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                 
                                I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                                 
                                I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the pool associated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the fire pool etc.
                                 
                                Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack at the best of times. :)
                                 
                                My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's other effects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop, filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast of water etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thing is so slow it's hardly worth it.
                                 
                                Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of 2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of the Rank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight, Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out and one-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P
                                 
                                Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totally useless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix. Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                                 
                                Kieran
                                 
                                From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                 
                                Raw Power
                                 
                                This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loophole to be exploited.
                                 
                                For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                                 
                                - d3 progression
                                - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                - 3m progression
                                - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level can put in max 7 mps)
                                 
                                This should take away most of the problem associated with raw power... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                                 
                                Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw power but overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw power could still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range of slingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...
                                 
                                I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with no healing power as well.
                                 
                                Direct Attack spells
                                 
                                I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells. Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grand total of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis). 
                                 
                                Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which is likely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that they are able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In game effect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.

                                Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                 
                                 
                                exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                                 
                                i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn't work as it should.
                                 
                                I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally with magical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you can only use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above your level. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can't perform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's just the dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types (exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viable character class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There is only one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that they are a different style of magic user but it still does not feel balanced for me.


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                 
                                Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                                 
                                Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                                 
                                Speed: 45
                                Range: 350m
                                Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                                 
                                One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                                 
                                It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                                 
                                You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                                 
                                 
                                Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                                 
                                Kieran
                                 
                                From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                 
                                I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                                 
                                Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                 
                                On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                 
                                Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                                No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                                We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                                --
                                Ian Sturrock

                                Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                http://serpentking.com/





                              • Christopher Loh
                                Hmm... What if the elementalist is blasting an inanimate object? What will you use for the magical defense? Treat as 0 and just roll under magical attack?
                                Message 15 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                                  Hmm... What if the elementalist is blasting an inanimate object? What will you use for the magical defense? Treat as 0 and just roll under magical attack?

                                  Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:10 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                   

                                  it's why i made it direct attack instead, you avoid the speed issue altogether.



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                                  To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                   
                                  I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                                   
                                  I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the pool associated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the fire pool etc.
                                   
                                  Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack at the best of times. :)
                                   
                                  My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's other effects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop, filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast of water etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thing is so slow it's hardly worth it.
                                   
                                  Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of 2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of the Rank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight, Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out and one-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P
                                   
                                  Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totally useless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix. Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                                   
                                  Kieran
                                   
                                  From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                  To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                   
                                  Raw Power
                                   
                                  This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loophole to be exploited.
                                   
                                  For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                                   
                                  - d3 progression
                                  - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                  - 3m progression
                                  - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                  - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level can put in max 7 mps)
                                   
                                  This should take away most of the problem associated with raw power... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                                   
                                  Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw power but overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw power could still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range of slingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...
                                   
                                  I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with no healing power as well.
                                   
                                  Direct Attack spells
                                   
                                  I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells. Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grand total of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis). 
                                   
                                  Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which is likely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that they are able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In game effect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.

                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                   
                                   
                                  exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                                   
                                  i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn't work as it should.
                                   
                                  I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally with magical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you can only use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above your level. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can't perform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's just the dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                  As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types (exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viable character class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There is only one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that they are a different style of magic user but it still does not feel balanced for me.


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                  To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                   
                                  Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                                   
                                  Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                                   
                                  Speed: 45
                                  Range: 350m
                                  Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                                   
                                  One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                                   
                                  It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                                   
                                  You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                                   
                                   
                                  Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                  I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                                   
                                  Kieran
                                   
                                  From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                  To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                   
                                  I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                                   
                                  Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                  To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                   
                                  On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                   
                                  Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                                  No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                                  We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                                  --
                                  Ian Sturrock

                                  Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                  http://serpentking.com/





                                • Christopher Loh
                                  Was thinking of 2 hp per mp initially too. However since lesser healing (Sor 1) heals 2 hp, I would like to tweak the part to ensure that Sor spells is still
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                                    Was thinking of 2 hp per mp initially too. However since lesser healing (Sor 1) heals 2 hp, I would like to tweak the part to ensure that Sor spells is still one of the best around.
                                     
                                    While the warlock has a d4 hp version, they have only 2mp per level... While Elementalist might not have quality spells, they sure have abundance mp.

                                    Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:13 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                    i use the 2hp per 1 mp thing as well.



                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                    To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:54 pm
                                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                     
                                    Hmm...
                                     
                                    I guess the slow speed is likely to be due to your character being a relatively low level elementalist? A higher level elementalist will have raw power with exponential hit rate due to lower evasion progression. If we keep to the same progression, elementalist raw power would have higher speed than sorcerer. As elementalist has higher MPs than sorcerer of same level, it is important to ensure that sorcerer spells to be of ''better quality" than elementalist's. I would prefer sorcerer to be the ''best" wizard in the game in quantity and quality of spells. Of course, GM can always modify as they see fit Smile emoticon
                                     
                                    The long range of raw power should be seen as a potential unbalancing factor. If I am not wrong, Mystic blast and firestorm are longest range spells. Both have range of 30m. Personally feel that raw power should not have a longer range than Mystic or Sorcerer spells.
                                     
                                    Maybe we can also look at capping the max mp used in raw power to be 10 mp as well. For GMs who are playing epic games, above 10th level, even 3m per mp might be a long range for raw power as well.
                                     
                                    Most DW spells are relatively short range. Somehow the wizards in DW game like it up close and personal... D&D wizards typically will cast improved invisibility, stoneskin, fly and blast from the skies above with long range spells.
                                     
                                    DW spells are actually extremely damaging as well due to HP progression of adventuring class. So a d6 per mp damage is actually pretty damaging. Think of it as you are having a D&D lightning bold (d6hp per level) against +1hp per level warrior... Since increasing hp for warriors is bound to open a can of worms like our previous discussion, I would advocate d3 hp per mp.
                                     
                                    It is important to remember that elementalist can wear armour (up to plate armour) and has higher pool of mp than sorcerer.
                                     
                                    Thus any tweak should ensure that Sorcerer should still the top gun in spells. Highest damage, fastest speed and longest range. The elementalist blasting power due to raw power is like having a profession that can wear better armour than knights or higher hp than barbarians.
                                     
                                    What's your views on allowing Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used.
                                     
                                    At the same time giving elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.
                                     
                                    Chris Smile emoticon
                                     

                                    Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 2:22 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                     
                                    I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                                     
                                    I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the pool associated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the fire pool etc.
                                     
                                    Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack at the best of times. :)
                                     
                                    My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's other effects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop, filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast of water etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thing is so slow it's hardly worth it.
                                     
                                    Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of 2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of the Rank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight, Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out and one-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P
                                     
                                    Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totally useless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix. Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                                     
                                    Kieran
                                     
                                    From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                    To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                     
                                    Raw Power
                                     
                                    This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loophole to be exploited.
                                     
                                    For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                                     
                                    - d3 progression
                                    - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                    - 3m progression
                                    - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                    - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level can put in max 7 mps)
                                     
                                    This should take away most of the problem associated with raw power... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                                     
                                    Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw power but overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw power could still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range of slingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...
                                     
                                    I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with no healing power as well.
                                     
                                    Direct Attack spells
                                     
                                    I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells. Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grand total of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis). 
                                     
                                    Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which is likely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that they are able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In game effect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.

                                    Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                     
                                     
                                    exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                                     
                                    i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn't work as it should.
                                     
                                    I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally with magical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you can only use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above your level. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can't perform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's just the dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                    As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types (exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viable character class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There is only one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that they are a different style of magic user but it still does not feel balanced for me.


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                    To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                     
                                    Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                                     
                                    Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                                     
                                    Speed: 45
                                    Range: 350m
                                    Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                                     
                                    One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                                     
                                    It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                                     
                                    You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                                     
                                     
                                    Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                                     
                                    Kieran
                                     
                                    From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                    To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                     
                                    I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                                     
                                    Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                    To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                     
                                    On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                     
                                    Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                                    No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                                    We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                                    --
                                    Ian Sturrock

                                    Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                    http://serpentking.com/





                                  • Patrick Murray
                                    they don t need to roll under the current method either. This is covered already by the alternative uses for raw power. ... From: Christopher Loh
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                                       
                                      they don't need to roll under the current method either. This is covered already by the alternative uses for raw power.



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                      To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 9:37 am
                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                       
                                      Hmm... What if the elementalist is blasting an inanimate object? What will you use for the magical defense? Treat as 0 and just roll under magical attack?

                                      Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:10 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                       
                                      it's why i made it direct attack instead, you avoid the speed issue altogether.



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                                      To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                       
                                      I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                                       
                                      I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the pool associated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the fire pool etc.
                                       
                                      Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack at the best of times. :)
                                       
                                      My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's other effects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop, filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast of water etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thing is so slow it's hardly worth it.
                                       
                                      Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of 2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of the Rank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight, Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out and one-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P
                                       
                                      Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totally useless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix. Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                                       
                                      Kieran
                                       
                                      From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                      To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                       
                                      Raw Power
                                       
                                      This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loophole to be exploited.
                                       
                                      For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                                       
                                      - d3 progression
                                      - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                      - 3m progression
                                      - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                      - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level can put in max 7 mps)
                                       
                                      This should take away most of the problem associated with raw power... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                                       
                                      Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw power but overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw power could still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range of slingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...
                                       
                                      I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with no healing power as well.
                                       
                                      Direct Attack spells
                                       
                                      I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells. Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grand total of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis). 
                                       
                                      Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which is likely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that they are able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In game effect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.

                                      Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                       
                                       
                                      exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                                       
                                      i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn't work as it should.
                                       
                                      I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally with magical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you can only use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above your level. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can't perform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's just the dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                      As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types (exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viable character class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There is only one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that they are a different style of magic user but it still does not feel balanced for me.


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                      To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                       
                                      Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                                       
                                      Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                                       
                                      Speed: 45
                                      Range: 350m
                                      Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                                       
                                      One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                                       
                                      It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                                       
                                      You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                                       
                                       
                                      Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                       
                                       
                                       
                                      I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                                       
                                      Kieran
                                       
                                      From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                      To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                       
                                      I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                                       
                                      Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                      To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                       
                                      On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                       
                                      Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                                      No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                                      We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                                      --
                                      Ian Sturrock

                                      Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                      http://serpentking.com/





                                    • Patrick Murray
                                      limit it to their main element only. A first rank elementalist can cast 3, 2hp healing spells compared to a sorcerer of the same level who can cast 4, 2hp
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                                        limit it to their main element only. A first rank elementalist can cast 3, 2hp healing spells compared to a sorcerer of the same level who can cast 4, 2hp healing spells.
                                         
                                        The sorcerer still remains the better healer but the elementalist is still very useful. Of course the sorcerer gets even better when they get greater healing.
                                         
                                        The elementalist does not feel the secondary elements as strongly so can't use raw power with MPs from those groups. I think this method deals with your worry of overpowering elementalists



                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                        To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 9:42 am
                                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                         
                                        Was thinking of 2 hp per mp initially too. However since lesser healing (Sor 1) heals 2 hp, I would like to tweak the part to ensure that Sor spells is still one of the best around.
                                         
                                        While the warlock has a d4 hp version, they have only 2mp per level... While Elementalist might not have quality spells, they sure have abundance mp.

                                        Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:13 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                        i use the 2hp per 1 mp thing as well.



                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                        To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:54 pm
                                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                         
                                        Hmm...
                                         
                                        I guess the slow speed is likely to be due to your character being a relatively low level elementalist? A higher level elementalist will have raw power with exponential hit rate due to lower evasion progression. If we keep to the same progression, elementalist raw power would have higher speed than sorcerer. As elementalist has higher MPs than sorcerer of same level, it is important to ensure that sorcerer spells to be of ''better quality" than elementalist's. I would prefer sorcerer to be the ''best" wizard in the game in quantity and quality of spells. Of course, GM can always modify as they see fit Smile emoticon
                                         
                                        The long range of raw power should be seen as a potential unbalancing factor. If I am not wrong, Mystic blast and firestorm are longest range spells. Both have range of 30m. Personally feel that raw power should not have a longer range than Mystic or Sorcerer spells.
                                         
                                        Maybe we can also look at capping the max mp used in raw power to be 10 mp as well. For GMs who are playing epic games, above 10th level, even 3m per mp might be a long range for raw power as well.
                                         
                                        Most DW spells are relatively short range. Somehow the wizards in DW game like it up close and personal... D&D wizards typically will cast improved invisibility, stoneskin, fly and blast from the skies above with long range spells.
                                         
                                        DW spells are actually extremely damaging as well due to HP progression of adventuring class. So a d6 per mp damage is actually pretty damaging. Think of it as you are having a D&D lightning bold (d6hp per level) against +1hp per level warrior... Since increasing hp for warriors is bound to open a can of worms like our previous discussion, I would advocate d3 hp per mp.
                                         
                                        It is important to remember that elementalist can wear armour (up to plate armour) and has higher pool of mp than sorcerer.
                                         
                                        Thus any tweak should ensure that Sorcerer should still the top gun in spells. Highest damage, fastest speed and longest range. The elementalist blasting power due to raw power is like having a profession that can wear better armour than knights or higher hp than barbarians.
                                         
                                        What's your views on allowing Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used.
                                         
                                        At the same time giving elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.
                                         
                                        Chris Smile emoticon
                                         

                                        Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 2:22 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                         
                                        I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                                         
                                        I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the pool associated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the fire pool etc.
                                         
                                        Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack at the best of times. :)
                                         
                                        My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's other effects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop, filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast of water etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thing is so slow it's hardly worth it.
                                         
                                        Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of 2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of the Rank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight, Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out and one-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P
                                         
                                        Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totally useless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix. Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                                         
                                        Kieran
                                         
                                        From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                        To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                         
                                        Raw Power
                                         
                                        This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loophole to be exploited.
                                         
                                        For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                                         
                                        - d3 progression
                                        - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                        - 3m progression
                                        - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                        - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level can put in max 7 mps)
                                         
                                        This should take away most of the problem associated with raw power... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                                         
                                        Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw power but overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw power could still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range of slingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...
                                         
                                        I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with no healing power as well.
                                         
                                        Direct Attack spells
                                         
                                        I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells. Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grand total of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis). 
                                         
                                        Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which is likely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that they are able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In game effect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.

                                        Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                         
                                         
                                        exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                                         
                                        i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn't work as it should.
                                         
                                        I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally with magical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you can only use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above your level. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can't perform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's just the dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                        As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types (exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viable character class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There is only one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that they are a different style of magic user but it still does not feel balanced for me.


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                        To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                         
                                        Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                                         
                                        Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                                         
                                        Speed: 45
                                        Range: 350m
                                        Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                                         
                                        One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                                         
                                        It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                                         
                                        You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                                         
                                         
                                        Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                        I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                                         
                                        Kieran
                                         
                                        From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                        To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                         
                                        I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                                         
                                        Still I look forward to seeing new material.



                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                        To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                        Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                         
                                        On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                         
                                        Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?

                                        No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                                        We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                                        --
                                        Ian Sturrock

                                        Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                        http://serpentking.com/





                                      • wodenkrait
                                        Direct attack magic won t work against inanimate objects. Cheers, -Kyle
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                                          Direct attack magic won't work against inanimate objects.

                                          Cheers,
                                          -Kyle

                                          --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Loh" <chloh77@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hmm... What if the elementalist is blasting an inanimate object? What will you use for the magical defense? Treat as 0 and just roll under magical attack?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: Patrick Murray
                                          > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:10 AM
                                          > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > it's why i made it direct attack instead, you avoid the speed issue altogether.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                                          > To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                                          > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                                          >
                                          > I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the pool associated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the fire pool etc.
                                          >
                                          > Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack at the best of times. :)
                                          >
                                          > My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's other effects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop, filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast of water etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thing is so slow it's hardly worth it.
                                          >
                                          > Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of 2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of the Rank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight, Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out and one-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P
                                          >
                                          > Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totally useless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix. Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                                          >
                                          > Kieran
                                          >
                                          > From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                          > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                          > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Raw Power
                                          >
                                          > This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loophole to be exploited.
                                          >
                                          > For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                                          >
                                          > - d3 progression
                                          > - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                          > - 3m progression
                                          > - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                          > - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level can put in max 7 mps)
                                          >
                                          > This should take away most of the problem associated with raw power... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                                          >
                                          > Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw power but overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw power could still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range of slingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...
                                          >
                                          > I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with no healing power as well.
                                          >
                                          > Direct Attack spells
                                          >
                                          > I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells. Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grand total of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis).
                                          >
                                          > Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which is likely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that they are able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In game effect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: Patrick Murray
                                          > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                          > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                                          >
                                          > i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn't work as it should.
                                          >
                                          > I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally with magical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you can only use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above your level. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can't perform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's just the dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                          >
                                          > As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types (exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viable character class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There is only one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that they are a different style of magic user but it still does not feel balanced for me.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                          > To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                          > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                                          >
                                          > Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                                          >
                                          > Speed: 45
                                          > Range: 350m
                                          > Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                                          >
                                          > One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                                          >
                                          > It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                                          >
                                          > You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: kieran turley
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                          > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                                          >
                                          > Kieran
                                          >
                                          > From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                          > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                          > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                                          >
                                          > Still I look forward to seeing new material.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                          > To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                          > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.
                                          >
                                          > We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > Ian Sturrock
                                          >
                                          > Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                          > http://serpentking.com/
                                          >
                                        • Patrick Murray
                                          Raises an interesting question. Spells that use MA v MD are direct, spells that use Sp v Ev are indirect. What about the other spells that use neither. Look at
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011

                                            Raises an interesting question. Spells that use MA v MD are direct, spells that use Sp v Ev are indirect. What about the other spells that use neither.
                                             
                                            Look at Rock Wall, the spell causes a rock to increase dramatically in size. As it is an inanimate object the rock doesn't get to dodge or resist the spell. But is the spell itself direct or indirect? Is it something else? Does it need to be classified at all? Am i just procrastinating at work?

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: wodenkrait <imirage@...>
                                            To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:29 pm
                                            Subject: [dragwars] Re: Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                             
                                            Direct attack magic won't work against inanimate objects.

                                            Cheers,
                                            -Kyle

                                            --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Loh" <chloh77@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hmm... What if the elementalist is blasting an inanimate object? What will you use for the magical defense? Treat as 0 and just roll under magical attack?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: Patrick Murray
                                            > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:10 AM
                                            > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > it's why i made it direct attack instead, you avoid the speed issue altogether.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                                            > To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                                            > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                                            >
                                            > I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the pool associated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the fire pool etc.
                                            >
                                            > Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack at the best of times. :)
                                            >
                                            > My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's other effects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop, filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast of water etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thing is so slow it's hardly worth it.
                                            >
                                            > Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of 2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of the Rank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight, Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out and one-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P
                                            >
                                            > Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totally useless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix. Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                                            >
                                            > Kieran
                                            >
                                            > From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                            > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                            > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Raw Power
                                            >
                                            > This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loophole to be exploited.
                                            >
                                            > For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                                            >
                                            > - d3 progression
                                            > - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                            > - 3m progression
                                            > - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                            > - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level can put in max 7 mps)
                                            >
                                            > This should take away most of the problem associated with raw power... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                                            >
                                            > Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw power but overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw power could still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range of slingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...
                                            >
                                            > I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with no healing power as well.
                                            >
                                            > Direct Attack spells
                                            >
                                            > I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells. Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grand total of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis).
                                            >
                                            > Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which is likely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that they are able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In game effect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elemental group it comes from.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: Patrick Murray
                                            > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                            > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                                            >
                                            > i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw power doesn't work as it should.
                                            >
                                            > I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally with magical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you can only use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above your level. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can't perform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's just the dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                            >
                                            > As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types (exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viable character class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There is only one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that they are a different style of magic user but it still does not feel balanced for me.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                            > To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                            > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                                            >
                                            > Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35 point spell of the following magnitude:
                                            >
                                            > Speed: 45
                                            > Range: 350m
                                            > Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                                            >
                                            > One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creature only has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if the elementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayer anyone?
                                            >
                                            > It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) & Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what is available via raw power.
                                            >
                                            > You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental Raw Power” to view a suggested fix.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: kieran turley
                                            > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                            > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on the Elementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them pretty decent all round.
                                            >
                                            > Kieran
                                            >
                                            > From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                            > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                            > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. The elementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playing various house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. The layout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                                            >
                                            > Still I look forward to seeing new material.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                            > To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                            > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Are you planning on making any changes to the already released material or is it the same?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just about identical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Press one was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes, and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.
                                            >
                                            > We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum Opus Press releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the Magnum Opus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > Ian Sturrock
                                            >
                                            > Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                            > http://serpentking.com/
                                            >

                                          • chloh77
                                            Think the way that raw power is being described is similar to blasting spells like dragonbreath. In DW terms, it would be considered as indirect spell. Since
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                                              Think the way that raw power is being described is similar to blasting spells like dragonbreath.

                                              In DW terms, it would be considered as indirect spell. Since it is an indirect spell, it would be Speed vs Evasion. Hitting an inanimate object could be treat as hitting a speed 0 target.... Though it raise the question on why the speed of spell should affect the chance of whether it hit an inanimate stationary object?

                                              Rock wall is altering the surrounding. Though what would be used as the speed if it is to be cast beneath a foe to trip him?

                                              --- Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:



                                              Raises an interesting question. Spells that use MA v MD are direct,spells that use Sp v Ev are indirect. What about the other spellsthat use neither.

                                              Look at Rock Wall, the spell causes a rock to increase dramaticallyin size. As it is an inanimate object the rock doesn't get to dodgeor resist the spell. But is the spell itself direct or indirect? Isit something else? Does it need to be classified at all? Am i justprocrastinating at work?


                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: wodenkrait <imirage@...>
                                              To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:29 pm
                                              Subject: [dragwars] Re: Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?




                                              Direct attack magic won't work against inanimate objects.

                                              Cheers,
                                              -Kyle

                                              --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Loh" <chloh77@...>wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hmm... What if the elementalist is blasting an inanimate object?What will you use for the magical defense? Treat as 0 and just rollunder magical attack?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > From: Patrick Murray
                                              > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:10 AM
                                              > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > it's why i made it direct attack instead, you avoid the speedissue altogether.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                                              > To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                                              > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                                              >
                                              > I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the poolassociated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the firepool etc.
                                              >
                                              > Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack atthe best of times. :)
                                              >
                                              > My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's othereffects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop,filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast ofwater etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thingis so slow it's hardly worth it.
                                              >
                                              > Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of theRank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight,Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out andone-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P
                                              >
                                              > Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totallyuseless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix.Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                                              >
                                              > Kieran
                                              >
                                              > From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                              > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                              > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Raw Power
                                              >
                                              > This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJORloophole to be exploited.
                                              >
                                              > For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                                              >
                                              > - d3 progression
                                              > - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed12)
                                              > - 3m progression
                                              > - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                              > - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level canput in max 7 mps)
                                              >
                                              > This should take away most of the problem associated with rawpower... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                                              >
                                              > Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw powerbut overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw powercould still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range ofslingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...
                                              >
                                              > I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from theraw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with nohealing power as well.
                                              >
                                              > Direct Attack spells
                                              >
                                              > I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells.Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grandtotal of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis).
                                              >
                                              > Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which islikely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that theyare able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In gameeffect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elementalgroup it comes from.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > From: Patrick Murray
                                              > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                              > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                                              >
                                              > i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw powerdoesn't work as it should.
                                              >
                                              > I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally withmagical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you canonly use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above yourlevel. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can'tperform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's justthe dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                              >
                                              > As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types(exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viablecharacter class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There isonly one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that theyare a different style of magic user but it still does not feelbalanced for me.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                              > To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                              > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                                              >
                                              > Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35point spell of the following magnitude:
                                              >
                                              > Speed: 45
                                              > Range: 350m
                                              > Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                                              >
                                              > One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creatureonly has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if theelementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayeranyone?
                                              >
                                              > It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) &Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what isavailable via raw power.
                                              >
                                              > You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled ������ElementalRaw Power������ to view a suggested fix.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > From: kieran turley
                                              > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                              > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on theElementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them prettydecent all round.
                                              >
                                              > Kieran
                                              >
                                              > From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                              > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effectetc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. Theelementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playingvarious house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. Thelayout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                                              >
                                              > Still I look forward to seeing new material.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                              > To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                              > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Are you planning on making any changes to the already releasedmaterial or is it the same?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just aboutidentical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Pressone was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes,and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.
                                              >
                                              > We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum OpusPress releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the MagnumOpus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.
                                              >
                                              > --
                                              > Ian Sturrock
                                              >
                                              > Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                              > http://serpentking.com/
                                              >
                                            • chloh77
                                              This seems to be a good compromise :) ... limit it to their main element only. A first rank elementalist cancast 3, 2hp healing spells compared to a sorcerer
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                                                This seems to be a good compromise :)

                                                --- Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:

                                                limit it to their main element only. A first rank elementalist cancast 3, 2hp healing spells compared to a sorcerer of the same levelwho can cast 4, 2hp healing spells.

                                                The sorcerer still remains the better healer but the elementalist isstill very useful. Of course the sorcerer gets even better when theyget greater healing.

                                                The elementalist does not feel the secondary elements as strongly socan't use raw power with MPs from those groups. I think this methoddeals with your worry of overpowering elementalists






                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 9:42 am
                                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?





                                                Was thinking of 2 hp per mp initially too. However since lesserhealing (Sor 1) heals 2 hp, I would like to tweak the part to ensurethat Sor spells is still one of the best around.

                                                While the warlock has a d4 hp version, they have only 2mp perlevel... While Elementalist might not have quality spells, they surehave abundance mp.




                                                From: Patrick Murray
                                                Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:13 AM
                                                To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                i use the 2hp per 1 mp thing as well.





                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:54 pm
                                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?





                                                Hmm...

                                                I guess the slow speed is likely to be due to your character being arelatively low level elementalist? A higher level elementalist willhave raw power with exponential hit rate due to lower evasionprogression. If we keep to the same progression, elementalist rawpower would have higher speed than sorcerer. As elementalist hashigher MPs than sorcerer of same level, it is important to ensurethat sorcerer spells to be of ''better quality" than elementalist's.I would prefer sorcerer to be the ''best" wizard in the game inquantity and quality of spells. Of course, GM can always modify asthey see fit

                                                The long range of raw power should be seen as a potentialunbalancing factor. If I am not wrong, Mystic blast and firestormare longest range spells. Both have range of 30m. Personally feelthat raw power should not have a longer range than Mystic orSorcerer spells.

                                                Maybe we can also look at capping the max mp used in raw power to be10 mp as well. For GMs who are playing epic games, above 10th level,even 3m per mp might be a long range for raw power as well.

                                                Most DW spells are relatively short range. Somehow the wizards in DWgame like it up close and personal... D&D wizards typically willcast improved invisibility, stoneskin, fly and blast from the skiesabove with long range spells.

                                                DW spells are actually extremely damaging as well due to HPprogression of adventuring class. So a d6 per mp damage is actuallypretty damaging. Think of it as you are having a D&D lightning bold(d6hp per level) against +1hp per level warrior... Since increasinghp for warriors is bound to open a can of worms like our previousdiscussion, I would advocate d3 hp per mp.

                                                It is important to remember that elementalist can wear armour (up toplate armour) and has higher pool of mp than sorcerer.

                                                Thus any tweak should ensure that Sorcerer should still the top gunin spells. Highest damage, fastest speed and longest range. Theelementalist blasting power due to raw power is like having aprofession that can wear better armour than knights or higher hpthan barbarians.



                                                What's your views on allowing Elementalist the power to cast healingwaves from the raw power. D2 hp per mp used.

                                                At the same time giving elementalist have the ability to cast weaken(Sor 2 spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of whichelemental group it comes from.


                                                Chris





                                                From: kieran turley
                                                Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 2:22 PM
                                                To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?





                                                I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.

                                                I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the poolassociated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the firepool etc.

                                                Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack atthe best of times. :)

                                                My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's othereffects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop,filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast ofwater etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thingis so slow it's hardly worth it.

                                                Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of theRank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight,Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out andone-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P

                                                Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totallyuseless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix.Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.

                                                Kieran



                                                From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                Raw Power

                                                This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loopholeto be exploited.

                                                For me, I make the changes to raw power.

                                                - d3 progression
                                                - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                                - 3m progression
                                                - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                                - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level canput in max 7 mps)

                                                This should take away most of the problem associated with rawpower... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.

                                                Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw powerbut overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw powercould still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range ofslingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...

                                                I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the rawpower. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with nohealing power as well.

                                                Direct Attack spells

                                                I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells.Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grandtotal of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis).

                                                Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which islikely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that theyare able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In gameeffect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elementalgroup it comes from.




                                                From: Patrick Murray
                                                Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                                To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?






                                                exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.

                                                i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw powerdoesn't work as it should.

                                                I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally withmagical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you canonly use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above yourlevel. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can'tperform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's justthe dark side of the moon facing the earth.

                                                As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types(exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viablecharacter class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There isonly one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that theyare a different style of magic user but it still does not feelbalanced for me.





                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                                To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?






                                                Raw Power is broken. Big time.

                                                Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35point spell of the following magnitude:


                                                Speed: 45
                                                Range: 350m
                                                Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)


                                                One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creatureonly has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if theelementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayeranyone?


                                                It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) &Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what isavailable via raw power.

                                                You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled ���Elemental RawPower��� to view a suggested fix.





                                                From: kieran turley
                                                Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                                To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?






                                                I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on theElementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them prettydecent all round.

                                                Kieran



                                                From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                                To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?




                                                I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etcbut I would have taken it back to the drawing board. Theelementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playingvarious house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. Thelayout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.

                                                Still I look forward to seeing new material.






                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                                To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                                Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?





                                                On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:





                                                Are you planning on making any changes to the already releasedmaterial or is it the same?





                                                No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just aboutidentical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Pressone was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes,and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                                                We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum OpusPress releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the MagnumOpus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                                                --
                                                Ian Sturrock

                                                Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                                http://serpentking.com/
                                              • chloh77
                                                A side effect of this method is that raw power would be more useful to warriors than against wizards. If we moving that route, are you going to allow AF to be
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                                                  A side effect of this method is that raw power would be more useful to warriors than against wizards.

                                                  If we moving that route, are you going to allow AF to be deducted from the damage?

                                                  --- Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:


                                                  they don't need to roll under the current method either. This iscovered already by the alternative uses for raw power.






                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                  To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 9:37 am
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?





                                                  Hmm... What if the elementalist is blasting an inanimate object?What will you use for the magical defense? Treat as 0 and just rollunder magical attack?




                                                  From: Patrick Murray
                                                  Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:10 AM
                                                  To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?




                                                  it's why i made it direct attack instead, you avoid the speed issuealtogether.





                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                                                  To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?





                                                  I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.

                                                  I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the poolassociated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the firepool etc.

                                                  Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack atthe best of times. :)

                                                  My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's othereffects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop,filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast ofwater etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thingis so slow it's hardly worth it.

                                                  Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of theRank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight,Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out andone-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P

                                                  Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totallyuseless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix.Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.

                                                  Kieran



                                                  From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                  To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                  Raw Power

                                                  This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loopholeto be exploited.

                                                  For me, I make the changes to raw power.

                                                  - d3 progression
                                                  - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                                  - 3m progression
                                                  - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                                  - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level canput in max 7 mps)

                                                  This should take away most of the problem associated with rawpower... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.

                                                  Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw powerbut overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw powercould still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range ofslingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...

                                                  I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the rawpower. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with nohealing power as well.

                                                  Direct Attack spells

                                                  I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells.Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grandtotal of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis).

                                                  Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which islikely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that theyare able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In gameeffect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elementalgroup it comes from.




                                                  From: Patrick Murray
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                                  To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?






                                                  exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.

                                                  i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw powerdoesn't work as it should.

                                                  I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally withmagical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you canonly use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above yourlevel. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can'tperform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's justthe dark side of the moon facing the earth.

                                                  As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types(exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viablecharacter class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There isonly one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that theyare a different style of magic user but it still does not feelbalanced for me.





                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                                  To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?






                                                  Raw Power is broken. Big time.

                                                  Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35point spell of the following magnitude:


                                                  Speed: 45
                                                  Range: 350m
                                                  Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)


                                                  One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creatureonly has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if theelementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayeranyone?


                                                  It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) &Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what isavailable via raw power.

                                                  You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled ���Elemental RawPower��� to view a suggested fix.





                                                  From: kieran turley
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                                  To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?






                                                  I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on theElementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them prettydecent all round.

                                                  Kieran



                                                  From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                                  To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?




                                                  I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etcbut I would have taken it back to the drawing board. Theelementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playingvarious house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. Thelayout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.

                                                  Still I look forward to seeing new material.






                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                                  To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?





                                                  On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:





                                                  Are you planning on making any changes to the already releasedmaterial or is it the same?





                                                  No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just aboutidentical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Pressone was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes,and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                                                  We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum OpusPress releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the MagnumOpus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                                                  --
                                                  Ian Sturrock

                                                  Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                                  http://serpentking.com/


































                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                                                  To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?





                                                  I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.

                                                  I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the poolassociated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the firepool etc.

                                                  Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack atthe best of times. :)

                                                  My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's othereffects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop,filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast ofwater etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thingis so slow it's hardly worth it.

                                                  Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of theRank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight,Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out andone-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P

                                                  Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totallyuseless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix.Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.

                                                  Kieran



                                                  From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                  To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                  Raw Power

                                                  This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loopholeto be exploited.

                                                  For me, I make the changes to raw power.

                                                  - d3 progression
                                                  - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                                  - 3m progression
                                                  - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                                  - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level canput in max 7 mps)

                                                  This should take away most of the problem associated with rawpower... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range.

                                                  Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw powerbut overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw powercould still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range ofslingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle...

                                                  I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the rawpower. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with nohealing power as well.

                                                  Direct Attack spells

                                                  I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells.Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grandtotal of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis).

                                                  Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which islikely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that theyare able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In gameeffect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elementalgroup it comes from.




                                                  From: Patrick Murray
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                                  To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?






                                                  exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.

                                                  i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw powerdoesn't work as it should.

                                                  I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally withmagical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you canonly use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above yourlevel. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can'tperform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's justthe dark side of the moon facing the earth.

                                                  As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types(exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viablecharacter class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There isonly one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that theyare a different style of magic user but it still does not feelbalanced for me.





                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                                  To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?






                                                  Raw Power is broken. Big time.

                                                  Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35point spell of the following magnitude:


                                                  Speed: 45
                                                  Range: 350m
                                                  Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)


                                                  One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creatureonly has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if theelementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayeranyone?


                                                  It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) &Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what isavailable via raw power.

                                                  You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled ���Elemental RawPower��� to view a suggested fix.





                                                  From: kieran turley
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                                  To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?






                                                  I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on theElementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them prettydecent all round.

                                                  Kieran



                                                  From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                                  To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?




                                                  I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etcbut I would have taken it back to the drawing board. Theelementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playingvarious house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. Thelayout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.

                                                  Still I look forward to seeing new material.






                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                                  To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?





                                                  On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:





                                                  Are you planning on making any changes to the already releasedmaterial or is it the same?





                                                  No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just aboutidentical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Pressone was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes,and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes.

                                                  We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum OpusPress releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the MagnumOpus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are.

                                                  --
                                                  Ian Sturrock

                                                  Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                                  http://serpentking.com/
                                                • Patrick Murray
                                                  that would be measuring the speed of the caster not the speed of the spell so id say that is actually a reflexes test not a speed test. ... From: chloh77
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                                                    that would be measuring the speed of the caster not the speed of the spell so id say that is actually a reflexes test not a speed test.
                                                     


                                                     


                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: chloh77 <chloh77@...>
                                                    To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 4:27 pm
                                                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Re: Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                                    Think the way that raw power is being described is similar to blasting spells 
                                                    like dragonbreath.
                                                    
                                                    In DW terms, it would be considered as indirect spell. Since it is an indirect 
                                                    spell, it would be Speed vs Evasion. Hitting an inanimate object could be treat 
                                                    as hitting a speed 0 target.... Though it raise the question on why the speed of 
                                                    spell should affect the chance of whether it hit an inanimate stationary object?
                                                    
                                                    Rock wall is altering the surrounding. Though what would be used as the speed if 
                                                    it is to be cast beneath a foe to trip him?
                                                    
                                                    --- Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                                    
                                                    
                                                    
                                                    Raises an interesting question. Spells that use MA v MD are direct,spells that 
                                                    use Sp v Ev are indirect. What about the other spellsthat use neither.
                                                    
                                                    Look at Rock Wall, the spell causes a rock to increase dramaticallyin size. As 
                                                    it is an inanimate object the rock doesn't get to dodgeor resist the spell. But 
                                                    is the spell itself direct or indirect? Isit something else? Does it need to be 
                                                    classified at all? Am i justprocrastinating at work?
                                                    
                                                    
                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: wodenkrait <imirage@...>
                                                    To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:29 pm
                                                    Subject: [dragwars] Re: Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                    
                                                    
                                                     
                                                    
                                                    Direct attack magic won't work against inanimate objects.
                                                    
                                                    Cheers,
                                                    -Kyle
                                                    
                                                    
                                                    --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Loh" <chloh77@...>wrote: > > Hmm... What if the elementalist is blasting an inanimate object?What will you use for the magical defense? Treat as 0 and just rollunder magical attack? > > > From: Patrick Murray > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:10 AM > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? > > > > it's why i made it direct attack instead, you avoid the speedissue altogether. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...> > To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? > > > > I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank. > > I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the poolassociated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the firepool etc. > > Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack atthe best of times. :) > > My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's othereffects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop,filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast ofwater etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thingis so slow it's hardly worth it. > > Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of theRank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight,Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out andone-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P > > Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totallyuseless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix.Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick. > > Kieran > > From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...> > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? > > > > Raw Power > > This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJORloophole to be exploited. > > For me, I make the changes to raw power. > > - d3 progression > - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed12) > - 3m progression > - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time > - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level canput in max 7 mps) > > This should take away most of the problem associated with rawpower... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range. > > Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw powerbut overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw powercould still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range ofslingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle... > > I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from theraw power. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with nohealing power as well. > > Direct Attack spells > > I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells.Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grandtotal of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis). > > Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which islikely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that theyare able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In gameeffect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elementalgroup it comes from. > > > From: Patrick Murray > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? > > > > > exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also. > > i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw powerdoesn't work as it should. > > I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally withmagical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you canonly use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above yourlevel. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can'tperform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's justthe dark side of the moon facing the earth. > > As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types(exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viablecharacter class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There isonly one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that theyare a different style of magic user but it still does not feelbalanced for me. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...> > To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? > > > > Raw Power is broken. Big time. > > Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35point spell of the following magnitude: > > Speed: 45 > Range: 350m > Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage) > > One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creatureonly has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if theelementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayeranyone? > > It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) &Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what isavailable via raw power. > > You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “ElementalRaw Power” to view a suggested fix. > > > From: kieran turley > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? > > > > I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on theElementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them prettydecent all round. > > Kieran > > From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? > > > > I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effectetc but I would have taken it back to the drawing board. Theelementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playingvarious house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. Thelayout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before. > > Still I look forward to seeing new material. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...> > To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm > Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? > > > > On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote: > > > Are you planning on making any changes to the already releasedmaterial or is it the same? > > > No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just aboutidentical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Pressone was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes,and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes. > > We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum OpusPress releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the MagnumOpus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are. > > -- > Ian Sturrock > > Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn! > http://serpentking.com/ > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dragwars/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dragwars/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: dragwars-digest@yahoogroups.com dragwars-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dragwars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                  • Patrick Murray
                                                    No AF reduction but damage would be far less. It opperates more like cause wound then dragonbreath. ... From: chloh77 To: dragwars
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                                                       
                                                      No AF reduction but damage would be far less. It opperates more like cause wound then dragonbreath.




                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: chloh77 <chloh77@...>
                                                      To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 4:32 pm
                                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                                      A side effect of this method is that raw power would be more useful to warriors 
                                                      than against wizards. 
                                                      
                                                      If we moving that route, are you going to allow AF to be deducted from the 
                                                      damage?
                                                      
                                                      --- Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      they don't need to roll under the current method either. This iscovered already 
                                                      by the alternative uses for raw power.
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                      To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 9:37 am
                                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                      
                                                      
                                                       
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      Hmm... What if the elementalist is blasting an inanimate object?What will you 
                                                      use for the magical defense? Treat as 0 and just rollunder magical attack?
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      From: Patrick Murray 
                                                      Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:10 AM
                                                      To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com 
                                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                        
                                                      it's why i made it direct attack instead, you avoid the speed issuealtogether.
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                                                      To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                      
                                                      
                                                        
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                                                       
                                                      I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the poolassociated with 
                                                      the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the firepool etc.
                                                       
                                                      Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack atthe best of 
                                                      times. :)
                                                       
                                                      My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's othereffects....blowing 
                                                      out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop,filling in holes with earth, 
                                                      putting out a fire with a blast ofwater etc. I only occasionally used it for 
                                                      attacking...and the thingis so slow it's hardly worth it.
                                                       
                                                      Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of2-3mp of a blast. 
                                                      Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of theRank 5+ Sorcerer spells take 
                                                      out multiple targets (Deathlight,Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my 
                                                      entire pool out andone-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me 
                                                      :P
                                                       
                                                      Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totallyuseless in 
                                                      combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix.Hopeufully just limiting 
                                                      it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                                                       
                                                      Kieran
                                                       
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                      To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                      
                                                      
                                                        
                                                      Raw Power
                                                       
                                                      This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loopholeto be 
                                                      exploited.
                                                       
                                                      For me, I make the changes to raw power.
                                                       
                                                      - d3 progression
                                                      - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                                      - 3m progression
                                                      - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                                      - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level canput in max 7 
                                                      mps)
                                                       
                                                      This should take away most of the problem associated with rawpower... Deadly 
                                                      damage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                                                       
                                                      Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw powerbut overlook 
                                                      the long range potential. The long range of raw powercould still disrupt the 
                                                      game. Think of it as one having the range ofslingshot and the other one is 
                                                      having a sniper rifle...
                                                       
                                                      I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the rawpower. D2 hp 
                                                      per mp used. This is the only wizard class with nohealing power as well.
                                                       
                                                      Direct Attack spells
                                                       
                                                      I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells.Nevertheless Mystic 
                                                      also share a similar problem, they have a grandtotal of 2 direct attack spells 
                                                      (Enthrall and Paralysis). 
                                                       
                                                      Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which islikely to be a 
                                                      messy affair), I was toying with the idea that theyare able to disrupt the 
                                                      balance of the elements in a person. In gameeffect, all elementalist have the 
                                                      ability to cast weaken (Sor 2spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of 
                                                      which elementalgroup it comes from.
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      From: Patrick Murray 
                                                      Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                                      To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com 
                                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                        
                                                      
                                                       
                                                      exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                                                       
                                                      i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw powerdoesn't work 
                                                      as it should.
                                                       
                                                      I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally withmagical attack and 
                                                      tone the damage down significantly. Also you canonly use MPs from your main 
                                                      group and can not cast it above yourlevel. And i removed the restriction that a 
                                                      water elementalist can'tperform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is 
                                                      there it's justthe dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                                      
                                                      As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types(exclude darkness 
                                                      elementalist, which are not really a viablecharacter class unless you are doing 
                                                      a bad guy campain.) There isonly one direct attack spell. I have heard the 
                                                      argument that theyare a different style of magic user but it still does not 
                                                      feelbalanced for me.
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                                      To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                      
                                                      
                                                        
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                                                       
                                                      Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35point spell of 
                                                      the following magnitude:
                                                       
                                                      
                                                      Speed: 45
                                                      Range: 350m
                                                      Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                                                       
                                                      
                                                      One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creatureonly has a 1 in 
                                                      100 chance of surviving such a blast (if theelementalist rolls a 20 for the 
                                                      speed's attack roll). Dragon slayeranyone?
                                                       
                                                      
                                                      It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) &Fire Arrow 
                                                      (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what isavailable via raw power.
                                                       
                                                      You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental RawPower” to view a 
                                                      suggested fix.
                                                       
                                                       
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      From: kieran turley 
                                                      Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                                      To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com 
                                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                      
                                                       
                                                      
                                                        
                                                      
                                                       
                                                      I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on theElementalist. 
                                                      I've been playing one for months and find them prettydecent all round.
                                                       
                                                      Kieran
                                                       
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                                      To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                      
                                                      
                                                        
                                                      
                                                      I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etcbut I would 
                                                      have taken it back to the drawing board. Theelementalist still isn't right and I 
                                                      think a lot of us are playingvarious house rules regarding skills of one sort or 
                                                      another. Thelayout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before.
                                                       
                                                      Still I look forward to seeing new material.
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                                      To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                                      Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                      
                                                      
                                                        
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote: Are you planning on making any changes to the already releasedmaterial or is it the same? No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just aboutidentical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Pressone was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes,and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes. We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum OpusPress releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the MagnumOpus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are. -- Ian Sturrock Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn! http://serpentking.com/ -----Original Message----- From: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...> To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? I'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank. I'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from the poolassociated with the dmg type...so fire blast comes from the firepool etc. Speed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack atthe best of times. :) My play experience is that I used the raw power for it's othereffects....blowing out candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop,filling in holes with earth, putting out a fire with a blast ofwater etc. I only occasionally used it for attacking...and the thingis so slow it's hardly worth it. Look at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of2-3mp of a blast. Shadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of theRank 5+ Sorcerer spells take out multiple targets (Deathlight,Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I can burn my entire pool out andone-shot God...but then his two hefty mates make dinner of me :P Reducing the speed and damage further will use make it totallyuseless in combat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix.Hopeufully just limiting it to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick. Kieran From: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...> To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? Raw Power This raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJOR loopholeto be exploited. For me, I make the changes to raw power. - d3 progression - +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12) - 3m progression - Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time - Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level canput in max 7 mps) This should take away most of the problem associated with rawpower... Deadly damage, Super speed and ultra long range. Most house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw powerbut overlook the long range potential. The long range of raw powercould still disrupt the game. Think of it as one having the range ofslingshot and the other one is having a sniper rifle... I give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from the rawpower. D2 hp per mp used. This is the only wizard class with nohealing power as well. Direct Attack spells I agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells.Nevertheless Mystic also share a similar problem, they have a grandtotal of 2 direct attack spells (Enthrall and Paralysis). Rather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which islikely to be a messy affair), I was toying with the idea that theyare able to disrupt the balance of the elements in a person. In gameeffect, all elementalist have the ability to cast weaken (Sor 2spell). It will cost 2 mp with no restriction of which elementalgroup it comes from. From: Patrick Murray Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? exactly, I've posted house rules on this before also. i think elementalists are missing in the skills area and raw powerdoesn't work as it should. I make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally withmagical attack and tone the damage down significantly. Also you canonly use MPs from your main group and can not cast it above yourlevel. And i removed the restriction that a water elementalist can'tperform a ritual when there in no moon. The moon is there it's justthe dark side of the moon facing the earth. As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types(exclude darkness elementalist, which are not really a viablecharacter class unless you are doing a bad guy campain.) There isonly one direct attack spell. I have heard the argument that theyare a different style of magic user but it still does not feelbalanced for me. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...> To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? Raw Power is broken. Big time. Example: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35point spell of the following magnitude: Speed: 45 Range: 350m Damage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage) One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creatureonly has a 1 in 100 chance of surviving such a blast (if theelementalist rolls a 20 for the speed's attack roll). Dragon slayeranyone? It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5) &Fire Arrow (Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what isavailable via raw power. You can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “Elemental RawPower” to view a suggested fix. From: kieran turley Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? I'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work on theElementalist. I've been playing one for months and find them prettydecent all round. Kieran From: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effect etcbut I would have taken it back to the drawing board. Theelementalist still isn't right and I think a lot of us are playingvarious house rules regarding skills of one sort or another. Thelayout is also a pain for me but i've posted about this before. Still I look forward to seeing new material. -----Original Message----- From: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...> To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now? On 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote: Are you planning on making any changes to the already releasedmaterial or is it the same? No rules or background changes. Even the layout is just aboutidentical, other than having our logo where the Magnum Opus Pressone was. I think we spotted a couple of typos in Friends or Foes,and corrected them, but that's about the extent of the changes. We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the Magnum OpusPress releases -- most of us at Serpent King worked on the MagnumOpus editions, and we're all very happy with them as they are. -- Ian Sturrock Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn! http://serpentking.com/ ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dragwars/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dragwars/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: dragwars-digest@yahoogroups.com dragwars-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dragwars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                    • Shaun Hately
                                                      Could people please remember to snip the messages they are replying to, if at all possible. With some long running threads, messages are now very long (because
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Sep 7, 2011
                                                        Could people please remember to snip the messages they are replying to,
                                                        if at all possible. With some long running threads, messages are now
                                                        very long (because 'a' replied to 'b' who replied to 'c' who replied to
                                                        'd'...) and if somebody just adds one new line of information to the top
                                                        of a message that is sixty lines long and resends it, things can start
                                                        to get awkward - particularly for anybody who is receiving the list via
                                                        digest. I'm aware that more and more people are now using e-mail on
                                                        various mobile devices and some of these make snipping extremely
                                                        difficult or even impossible, but that just makes it even more helpful
                                                        if the rest of us snip.

                                                        If you have a choice, just leave enough of the previous message to give
                                                        context to your reply (how much that is depends on what you are replying
                                                        to) and add your reply.

                                                        Thank you

                                                        Shaun Hately
                                                        ADMIN, Dragwars.
                                                      • chloh77
                                                        Worth considering. That would differentiate the raw power from the other inflicting injury blasting spells. Though the description of raw power seems to
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Sep 8, 2011
                                                          Worth considering. That would differentiate the raw power from the other inflicting injury blasting spells. Though the description of raw power seems to indicate more of blasting spell nature.

                                                          What will you be proposing to determine whether the blast hit an inanimate object since it has no MD? Auto hit or rolling just under magical attack against zero magical defence?

                                                          --- Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:


                                                          No AF reduction but damage would be far less. It opperates more likecause wound then dragonbreath.







                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                          From: chloh77 <chloh77@...>
                                                          To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 4:32 pm
                                                          Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?


                                                          A side effect of this method is that raw power would be more usefulto warriors
                                                          han against wizards.
                                                          If we moving that route, are you going to allow AF to be deductedfrom the
                                                          amage?
                                                          --- Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:

                                                          hey don't need to roll under the current method either. Thisiscovered already
                                                          y the alternative uses for raw power.



                                                          ----Original Message-----
                                                          rom: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                          o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          ent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 9:37 am
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                          mm... What if the elementalist is blasting an inanimate object?Whatwill you
                                                          se for the magical defense? Treat as 0 and just rollunder magicalattack?


                                                          rom: Patrick Murray
                                                          ent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:10 AM
                                                          o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?


                                                          t's why i made it direct attack instead, you avoid the speedissuealtogether.


                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                          rom: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                                                          o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          ent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                          'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.

                                                          'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from thepoolassociated with
                                                          he dmg type...so fire blast comes from the firepool etc.

                                                          peed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack atthebest of
                                                          imes. :)

                                                          y play experience is that I used the raw power for it'sothereffects....blowing
                                                          ut candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop,filling in holes withearth,
                                                          utting out a fire with a blast ofwater etc. I only occasionally usedit for
                                                          ttacking...and the thingis so slow it's hardly worth it.

                                                          ook at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of2-3mpof a blast.
                                                          hadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of theRank 5+ Sorcererspells take
                                                          ut multiple targets (Deathlight,Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I canburn my
                                                          ntire pool out andone-shot God...but then his two hefty mates makedinner of me
                                                          P

                                                          educing the speed and damage further will use make it totallyuselessin
                                                          ombat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix.Hopeufully justlimiting
                                                          t to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.

                                                          ieran


                                                          rom: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                          o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                          ent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?


                                                          aw Power

                                                          his raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJORloopholeto be
                                                          xploited.

                                                          or me, I make the changes to raw power.

                                                          d3 progression
                                                          +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                                          3m progression
                                                          Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                                          Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level canputin max 7
                                                          ps)

                                                          his should take away most of the problem associated with rawpower...Deadly
                                                          amage, Super speed and ultra long range.

                                                          ost house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw powerbutoverlook
                                                          he long range potential. The long range of raw powercould stilldisrupt the
                                                          ame. Think of it as one having the range ofslingshot and the otherone is
                                                          aving a sniper rifle...

                                                          give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from therawpower. D2 hp
                                                          er mp used. This is the only wizard class with nohealing power aswell.

                                                          irect Attack spells

                                                          agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells.NeverthelessMystic
                                                          lso share a similar problem, they have a grandtotal of 2 directattack spells
                                                          Enthrall and Paralysis).

                                                          ather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which islikelyto be a
                                                          essy affair), I was toying with the idea that theyare able todisrupt the
                                                          alance of the elements in a person. In gameeffect, all elementalisthave the
                                                          bility to cast weaken (Sor 2spell). It will cost 2 mp with norestriction of
                                                          hich elementalgroup it comes from.


                                                          rom: Patrick Murray
                                                          ent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                                          o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                          xactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.

                                                          think elementalists are missing in the skills area and rawpowerdoesn't work
                                                          s it should.

                                                          make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally withmagicalattack and
                                                          one the damage down significantly. Also you canonly use MPs fromyour main
                                                          roup and can not cast it above yourlevel. And i removed therestriction that a
                                                          ater elementalist can'tperform a ritual when there in no moon. Themoon is
                                                          here it's justthe dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                                          As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types(excludedarkness
                                                          lementalist, which are not really a viablecharacter class unless youare doing
                                                          bad guy campain.) There isonly one direct attack spell. I haveheard the
                                                          rgument that theyare a different style of magic user but it stilldoes not
                                                          eelbalanced for me.


                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                          rom: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                                          o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          ent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                          Raw Power is broken. Big time.

                                                          xample: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35pointspell of
                                                          he following magnitude:

                                                          Speed: 45
                                                          ange: 350m
                                                          amage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)

                                                          One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creatureonlyhas a 1 in
                                                          00 chance of surviving such a blast (if theelementalist rolls a 20for the
                                                          peed's attack roll). Dragon slayeranyone?

                                                          It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5)&Fire Arrow
                                                          Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what isavailable via rawpower.

                                                          ou can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled ���ElementalRawPower��� to view a
                                                          uggested fix.



                                                          From: kieran turley
                                                          ent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                                          o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                          'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work ontheElementalist.
                                                          've been playing one for months and find them prettydecent allround.

                                                          ieran


                                                          rom: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                                          o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                          ent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?


                                                          I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effectetcbut I would
                                                          ave taken it back to the drawing board. Theelementalist still isn'tright and I
                                                          hink a lot of us are playingvarious house rules regarding skills ofone sort or
                                                          nother. Thelayout is also a pain for me but i've posted about thisbefore.

                                                          till I look forward to seeing new material.



                                                          ----Original Message-----
                                                          rom: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                                          o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          ent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                          n 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:



                                                          re you planning on making any changes to the alreadyreleasedmaterial or is it
                                                          he same?


                                                          No rules or background changes. Even the layout is justaboutidentical, other
                                                          han having our logo where the Magnum Opus Pressone was. I think wespotted a
                                                          ouple of typos in Friends or Foes,and corrected them, but that'sabout the
                                                          xtent of the changes.
                                                          We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the MagnumOpusPress releases
                                                          - most of us at Serpent King worked on the MagnumOpus editions, andwe're all
                                                          ery happy with them as they are.
                                                          --
                                                          an Sturrock
                                                          Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                                          ttp://serpentking.com/

















                                                          ----Original Message-----
                                                          rom: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                                                          o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          ent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                          'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.

                                                          'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from thepoolassociated with
                                                          he dmg type...so fire blast comes from the firepool etc.

                                                          peed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack atthebest of
                                                          imes. :)

                                                          y play experience is that I used the raw power for it'sothereffects....blowing
                                                          ut candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop,filling in holes withearth,
                                                          utting out a fire with a blast ofwater etc. I only occasionally usedit for
                                                          ttacking...and the thingis so slow it's hardly worth it.

                                                          ook at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of2-3mpof a blast.
                                                          hadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of theRank 5+ Sorcererspells take
                                                          ut multiple targets (Deathlight,Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I canburn my
                                                          ntire pool out andone-shot God...but then his two hefty mates makedinner of me
                                                          P

                                                          educing the speed and damage further will use make it totallyuselessin
                                                          ombat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix.Hopeufully justlimiting
                                                          t to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.

                                                          ieran


                                                          rom: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                          o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                          ent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?


                                                          aw Power

                                                          his raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJORloopholeto be
                                                          xploited.

                                                          or me, I make the changes to raw power.

                                                          d3 progression
                                                          +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                                          3m progression
                                                          Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                                          Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level canputin max 7
                                                          ps)

                                                          his should take away most of the problem associated with rawpower...Deadly
                                                          amage, Super speed and ultra long range.

                                                          ost house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw powerbutoverlook
                                                          he long range potential. The long range of raw powercould stilldisrupt the
                                                          ame. Think of it as one having the range ofslingshot and the otherone is
                                                          aving a sniper rifle...

                                                          give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from therawpower. D2 hp
                                                          er mp used. This is the only wizard class with nohealing power aswell.

                                                          irect Attack spells

                                                          agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells.NeverthelessMystic
                                                          lso share a similar problem, they have a grandtotal of 2 directattack spells
                                                          Enthrall and Paralysis).

                                                          ather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which islikelyto be a
                                                          essy affair), I was toying with the idea that theyare able todisrupt the
                                                          alance of the elements in a person. In gameeffect, all elementalisthave the
                                                          bility to cast weaken (Sor 2spell). It will cost 2 mp with norestriction of
                                                          hich elementalgroup it comes from.


                                                          rom: Patrick Murray
                                                          ent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                                          o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                          xactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.

                                                          think elementalists are missing in the skills area and rawpowerdoesn't work
                                                          s it should.

                                                          make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally withmagicalattack and
                                                          one the damage down significantly. Also you canonly use MPs fromyour main
                                                          roup and can not cast it above yourlevel. And i removed therestriction that a
                                                          ater elementalist can'tperform a ritual when there in no moon. Themoon is
                                                          here it's justthe dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                                          As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types(excludedarkness
                                                          lementalist, which are not really a viablecharacter class unless youare doing
                                                          bad guy campain.) There isonly one direct attack spell. I haveheard the
                                                          rgument that theyare a different style of magic user but it stilldoes not
                                                          eelbalanced for me.


                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                          rom: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                                          o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          ent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                          Raw Power is broken. Big time.

                                                          xample: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35pointspell of
                                                          he following magnitude:

                                                          Speed: 45
                                                          ange: 350m
                                                          amage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)

                                                          One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creatureonlyhas a 1 in
                                                          00 chance of surviving such a blast (if theelementalist rolls a 20for the
                                                          peed's attack roll). Dragon slayeranyone?

                                                          It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5)&Fire Arrow
                                                          Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what isavailable via rawpower.

                                                          ou can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled ���ElementalRawPower��� to view a
                                                          uggested fix.



                                                          From: kieran turley
                                                          ent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                                          o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                          'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work ontheElementalist.
                                                          've been playing one for months and find them prettydecent allround.

                                                          ieran


                                                          rom: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                                          o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                          ent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?


                                                          I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effectetcbut I would
                                                          ave taken it back to the drawing board. Theelementalist still isn'tright and I
                                                          hink a lot of us are playingvarious house rules regarding skills ofone sort or
                                                          nother. Thelayout is also a pain for me but i've posted about thisbefore.

                                                          till I look forward to seeing new material.



                                                          ----Original Message-----
                                                          rom: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                                          o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          ent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                                          ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?



                                                          n 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:



                                                          re you planning on making any changes to the alreadyreleasedmaterial or is it
                                                          he same?


                                                          No rules or background changes. Even the layout is justaboutidentical, other
                                                          han having our logo where the Magnum Opus Pressone was. I think wespotted a
                                                          ouple of typos in Friends or Foes,and corrected them, but that'sabout the
                                                          xtent of the changes.
                                                          We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the MagnumOpusPress releases
                                                          - most of us at Serpent King worked on the MagnumOpus editions, andwe're all
                                                          ery happy with them as they are.
                                                          --
                                                          an Sturrock
                                                          Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                                          ttp://serpentking.com/


















                                                          ------------------------------------
                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          Individual Email | Traditional
                                                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                        • kieran turley
                                                          Hmmm Raw Power isn t reduced by armour? That needs fixing :)   So:   1. Reduced By AF   2. Limited to 1mp per rank (Max 6MP for damaging affect? No max for
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Sep 8, 2011
                                                            Hmmm Raw Power isn't reduced by armour? That needs fixing :)
                                                             
                                                            So:
                                                             
                                                            1. Reduced By AF
                                                             
                                                            2. Limited to 1mp per rank (Max 6MP for damaging affect? No max for non-attack method)
                                                             
                                                            3. MP must come from MP pool for the element type...no mixing either. Water Raw Power effect must come from Water pool etc.
                                                             
                                                            4. A cap on Speed...after all...fire/water/earth/air can only go so fast. Something like 16 might be fair?
                                                             
                                                            This would "cap" the effect at rank 6 (6mp) pretty much. Beyond that it's special uses...
                                                             
                                                            I dunno...just throwing around ideas.
                                                             
                                                            Kieran
                                                          • Patrick Murray
                                                            descriptions can be re-written. and as i ve said before the current alternative uses for raw power rules already cover inanimate objects. ... From: chloh77
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Sep 8, 2011
                                                              descriptions can be re-written. and as i ve said before the current "alternative uses for raw power" rules already cover inanimate objects.



                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                              From: chloh77 <chloh77@...>
                                                              To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 6:21 pm
                                                              Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?

                                                              Worth considering. That would differentiate the raw power from the other 
                                                              inflicting injury blasting spells. Though the description of raw power seems to 
                                                              indicate more of blasting spell nature.
                                                              
                                                              What will you be proposing to determine whether the blast hit an inanimate 
                                                              object since it has no MD? Auto hit or rolling just under magical attack against 
                                                              zero magical defence?
                                                              
                                                              --- Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              No AF reduction but damage would be far less. It opperates more likecause wound 
                                                              then dragonbreath.
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                              From: chloh77 <chloh77@...>
                                                              To: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 4:32 pm
                                                              Subject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              A side effect of this method is that raw power would be more usefulto warriors 
                                                              han against wizards. 
                                                              If we moving that route, are you going to allow AF to be deductedfrom the 
                                                              amage?
                                                              --- Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                                              
                                                              hey don't need to roll under the current method either. Thisiscovered already 
                                                              y the alternative uses for raw power.
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              ----Original Message-----
                                                              rom: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                              o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              ent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 9:37 am
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              mm... What if the elementalist is blasting an inanimate object?Whatwill you 
                                                              se for the magical defense? Treat as 0 and just rollunder magicalattack?
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              rom: Patrick Murray 
                                                              ent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:10 AM
                                                              o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com 
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                                
                                                              t's why i made it direct attack instead, you avoid the speedissuealtogether.
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                              rom: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                                                              o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              ent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                               
                                                              
                                                              'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                                                              
                                                              'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from thepoolassociated with 
                                                              he dmg type...so fire blast comes from the firepool etc.
                                                              
                                                              peed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack atthebest of 
                                                              imes. :)
                                                              
                                                              y play experience is that I used the raw power for it'sothereffects....blowing 
                                                              ut candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop,filling in holes withearth, 
                                                              utting out a fire with a blast ofwater etc. I only occasionally usedit for 
                                                              ttacking...and the thingis so slow it's hardly worth it.
                                                              
                                                              ook at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of2-3mpof a blast. 
                                                              hadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of theRank 5+ Sorcererspells take 
                                                              ut multiple targets (Deathlight,Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I canburn my 
                                                              ntire pool out andone-shot God...but then his two hefty mates makedinner of me 
                                                              P
                                                              
                                                              educing the speed and damage further will use make it totallyuselessin 
                                                              ombat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix.Hopeufully justlimiting 
                                                              t to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                                                              
                                                              ieran
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              rom: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                              o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                              ent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                               
                                                              aw Power
                                                              
                                                              his raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJORloopholeto be 
                                                              xploited.
                                                              
                                                              or me, I make the changes to raw power.
                                                              
                                                               d3 progression
                                                               +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                                               3m progression
                                                               Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                                               Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level canputin max 7 
                                                              ps)
                                                              
                                                              his should take away most of the problem associated with rawpower...Deadly 
                                                              amage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                                                              
                                                              ost house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw powerbutoverlook 
                                                              he long range potential. The long range of raw powercould stilldisrupt the 
                                                              ame. Think of it as one having the range ofslingshot and the otherone is 
                                                              aving a sniper rifle...
                                                              
                                                               give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from therawpower. D2 hp 
                                                              er mp used. This is the only wizard class with nohealing power aswell.
                                                              
                                                              irect Attack spells
                                                              
                                                               agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells.NeverthelessMystic 
                                                              lso share a similar problem, they have a grandtotal of 2 directattack spells 
                                                              Enthrall and Paralysis). 
                                                              
                                                              ather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which islikelyto be a 
                                                              essy affair), I was toying with the idea that theyare able todisrupt the 
                                                              alance of the elements in a person. In gameeffect, all elementalisthave the 
                                                              bility to cast weaken (Sor 2spell). It will cost 2 mp with norestriction of 
                                                              hich elementalgroup it comes from.
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              rom: Patrick Murray 
                                                              ent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                                              o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com 
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                                
                                                               
                                                              xactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                                                              
                                                               think elementalists are missing in the skills area and rawpowerdoesn't work 
                                                              s it should.
                                                              
                                                               make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally withmagicalattack and 
                                                              one the damage down significantly. Also you canonly use MPs fromyour main 
                                                              roup and can not cast it above yourlevel. And i removed therestriction that a 
                                                              ater elementalist can'tperform a ritual when there in no moon. Themoon is 
                                                              here it's justthe dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                                              As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types(excludedarkness 
                                                              lementalist, which are not really a viablecharacter class unless youare doing 
                                                               bad guy campain.) There isonly one direct attack spell. I haveheard the 
                                                              rgument that theyare a different style of magic user but it stilldoes not 
                                                              eelbalanced for me.
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                              rom: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                                              o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              ent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                               
                                                              
                                                              Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                                                              
                                                              xample: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35pointspell of 
                                                              he following magnitude:
                                                              
                                                              Speed: 45
                                                              ange: 350m
                                                              amage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                                                              
                                                              One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creatureonlyhas a 1 in 
                                                              00 chance of surviving such a blast (if theelementalist rolls a 20for the 
                                                              peed's attack roll). Dragon slayeranyone?
                                                              
                                                              It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5)&Fire Arrow 
                                                              Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what isavailable via rawpower.
                                                              
                                                              ou can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “ElementalRawPower” to view a 
                                                              uggested fix.
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              From: kieran turley 
                                                              ent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                                              o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com 
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                               
                                                                
                                                               
                                                              'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work ontheElementalist. 
                                                              've been playing one for months and find them prettydecent allround.
                                                              
                                                              ieran
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              rom: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                                              o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                              ent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                               
                                                              I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effectetcbut I would 
                                                              ave taken it back to the drawing board. Theelementalist still isn'tright and I 
                                                              hink a lot of us are playingvarious house rules regarding skills ofone sort or 
                                                              nother. Thelayout is also a pain for me but i've posted about thisbefore.
                                                              
                                                              till I look forward to seeing new material.
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              ----Original Message-----
                                                              rom: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                                              o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              ent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                               
                                                              
                                                              n 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              re you planning on making any changes to the alreadyreleasedmaterial or is it 
                                                              he same?
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              No rules or background changes. Even the layout is justaboutidentical, other 
                                                              han having our logo where the Magnum Opus Pressone was. I think wespotted a 
                                                              ouple of typos in Friends or Foes,and corrected them, but that'sabout the 
                                                              xtent of the changes.
                                                              We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the MagnumOpusPress releases 
                                                              - most of us at Serpent King worked on the MagnumOpus editions, andwe're all 
                                                              ery happy with them as they are.
                                                              -- 
                                                              an Sturrock
                                                              Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                                              ttp://serpentking.com/
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              ----Original Message-----
                                                              rom: kieran turley <kieran.turley@...>
                                                              o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              ent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22 pm
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                               
                                                              
                                                              'd agree that it should be limited to 1MP per rank.
                                                              
                                                              'd also suggest that the MP for a blast must come from thepoolassociated with 
                                                              he dmg type...so fire blast comes from the firepool etc.
                                                              
                                                              peed is pretty ok in my mind...it's a pretty darn slow attack atthebest of 
                                                              imes. :)
                                                              
                                                              y play experience is that I used the raw power for it'sothereffects....blowing 
                                                              ut candles, blowing an assassin off a rooftop,filling in holes withearth, 
                                                              utting out a fire with a blast ofwater etc. I only occasionally usedit for 
                                                              ttacking...and the thingis so slow it's hardly worth it.
                                                              
                                                              ook at the existing spells...Dragonbreath is the equivolent of2-3mpof a blast. 
                                                              hadowbolt is pretty much a 4-5 blast. Most of theRank 5+ Sorcererspells take 
                                                              ut multiple targets (Deathlight,Hecatomb, Transfix etc). Ok, I canburn my 
                                                              ntire pool out andone-shot God...but then his two hefty mates makedinner of me 
                                                              P
                                                              
                                                              educing the speed and damage further will use make it totallyuselessin 
                                                              ombat...which wasn't really the intention of the fix.Hopeufully justlimiting 
                                                              t to 1MP/rank etc should do the trick.
                                                              
                                                              ieran
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              rom: Christopher Loh <chloh77@...>
                                                              o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                              ent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:31 AM
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                               
                                                              aw Power
                                                              
                                                              his raw power thing is really a clear situation of a MAJORloopholeto be 
                                                              xploited.
                                                              
                                                              or me, I make the changes to raw power.
                                                              
                                                               d3 progression
                                                               +1 Speed progression is 2mp instead of 1mp (e.g. 4mp is speed 12)
                                                               3m progression
                                                               Can only use mp from one elemental group at a time
                                                               Limit to rank in casting the elemental surge (e.g. 7th level canputin max 7 
                                                              ps)
                                                              
                                                              his should take away most of the problem associated with rawpower...Deadly 
                                                              amage, Super speed and ultra long range.
                                                              
                                                              ost house rule focus on lowering the limit and speed of raw powerbutoverlook 
                                                              he long range potential. The long range of raw powercould stilldisrupt the 
                                                              ame. Think of it as one having the range ofslingshot and the otherone is 
                                                              aving a sniper rifle...
                                                              
                                                               give the Elementalist the power to cast healing waves from therawpower. D2 hp 
                                                              er mp used. This is the only wizard class with nohealing power aswell.
                                                              
                                                              irect Attack spells
                                                              
                                                               agree with Patrick regarding the lack of direct spells.NeverthelessMystic 
                                                              lso share a similar problem, they have a grandtotal of 2 directattack spells 
                                                              Enthrall and Paralysis). 
                                                              
                                                              ather than introducing more spells for Elementalist (which islikelyto be a 
                                                              essy affair), I was toying with the idea that theyare able todisrupt the 
                                                              alance of the elements in a person. In gameeffect, all elementalisthave the 
                                                              bility to cast weaken (Sor 2spell). It will cost 2 mp with norestriction of 
                                                              hich elementalgroup it comes from.
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              rom: Patrick Murray 
                                                              ent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:06 AM
                                                              o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com 
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                                
                                                               
                                                              xactly, I've posted house rules on this before also.
                                                              
                                                               think elementalists are missing in the skills area and rawpowerdoesn't work 
                                                              s it should.
                                                              
                                                               make raw power direct attack so it increases naturally withmagicalattack and 
                                                              one the damage down significantly. Also you canonly use MPs fromyour main 
                                                              roup and can not cast it above yourlevel. And i removed therestriction that a 
                                                              ater elementalist can'tperform a ritual when there in no moon. Themoon is 
                                                              here it's justthe dark side of the moon facing the earth.
                                                              As I've said before looking at the 4 main elementalist types(excludedarkness 
                                                              lementalist, which are not really a viablecharacter class unless youare doing 
                                                               bad guy campain.) There isonly one direct attack spell. I haveheard the 
                                                              rgument that theyare a different style of magic user but it stilldoes not 
                                                              eelbalanced for me.
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                              rom: Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...>
                                                              o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              ent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:51 pm
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                               
                                                              
                                                              Raw Power is broken. Big time.
                                                              
                                                              xample: a 7th rank fire elementalist can potentially cast a 35pointspell of 
                                                              he following magnitude:
                                                              
                                                              Speed: 45
                                                              ange: 350m
                                                              amage: 70d6 (average of 244 damage)
                                                              
                                                              One shot, admittedly, but oh what a shot! ANY corporeal creatureonlyhas a 1 in 
                                                              00 chance of surviving such a blast (if theelementalist rolls a 20for the 
                                                              peed's attack roll). Dragon slayeranyone?
                                                              
                                                              It also makes some spells redundant - Ice Spear (Water, level 5)&Fire Arrow 
                                                              Fire, level 3) become pathetic compared to what isavailable via rawpower.
                                                              
                                                              ou can view my full post from 29/12/2008 titled “ElementalRawPower” to view a 
                                                              uggested fix.
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              From: kieran turley 
                                                              ent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:07 AM
                                                              o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com 
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                               
                                                                
                                                               
                                                              'd be very interested to hear what you think needs work ontheElementalist. 
                                                              've been playing one for months and find them prettydecent allround.
                                                              
                                                              ieran
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              rom: Patrick Murray <rumtap@...>
                                                              o: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                                              ent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:59 PM
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                               
                                                              I can see why you would keep it the same for the flow on effectetcbut I would 
                                                              ave taken it back to the drawing board. Theelementalist still isn'tright and I 
                                                              hink a lot of us are playingvarious house rules regarding skills ofone sort or 
                                                              nother. Thelayout is also a pain for me but i've posted about thisbefore.
                                                              
                                                              till I look forward to seeing new material.
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              ----Original Message-----
                                                              rom: Ian Sturrock <sturrock@...>
                                                              o: dragwars <dragwars@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              ent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47 pm
                                                              ubject: Re: [dragwars] Who Owns Rights To "Dragon Warriors" Now?
                                                              
                                                               
                                                              
                                                              n 5 September 2011 04:29, Patrick Murray <rumtap@...> wrote:
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              re you planning on making any changes to the alreadyreleasedmaterial or is it 
                                                              he same?
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              No rules or background changes. Even the layout is justaboutidentical, other 
                                                              han having our logo where the Magnum Opus Pressone was. I think wespotted a 
                                                              ouple of typos in Friends or Foes,and corrected them, but that'sabout the 
                                                              xtent of the changes.
                                                              We're very keen to emphasise the continuity with the MagnumOpusPress releases 
                                                              - most of us at Serpent King worked on the MagnumOpus editions, andwe're all 
                                                              ery happy with them as they are.
                                                              -- 
                                                              an Sturrock
                                                              Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
                                                              ttp://serpentking.com/
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
                                                              
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