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All sorcerors are left handed...

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  • urbanfrog2002
    So DW tells us that all sorcerors are left handed. So is the ability to use sorcey a birth gift so to speak. Being left handed is simply a bodily manifestation
    Message 1 of 24 , Oct 2, 2009
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      So DW tells us that all sorcerors are left handed. So is the ability to use sorcey a birth gift so to speak. Being left handed is simply a bodily manifestation of that ability. Or do you become left handed if you learn sorcery at some point in life (if previously right handed).

      I think that the design intention of the DW world is that the ability to be a sorceror is a birth gift - you either can or you can't weave the forces of magic into spells i.e. turn incantations and bodily gestures of a spell into a magic effect.

      It follows then that unless a character has the gift he could never learn magic even if the best sorceror in the land was available to teach them.

      I am not sure if DW actually says that spells require vocal cords and limbs or material components to use. Certainly there are grimoires and the idea of magical study of spells is mentioned. What does casting a spell really entail?
    • Captain Starkiller
      My view is that you have to be left handed to become a sorcerer. ... to use sorcey a birth gift so to speak. Being left handed is simply a bodily manifestation
      Message 2 of 24 , Oct 2, 2009
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        My view is that you have to be left handed to become a sorcerer.
        --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "urbanfrog2002" <alex@...> wrote:
        >
        > So DW tells us that all sorcerors are left handed. So is the ability to use sorcey a birth gift so to speak. Being left handed is simply a bodily manifestation of that ability. Or do you become left handed if you learn sorcery at some point in life (if previously right handed).
        >
        > I think that the design intention of the DW world is that the ability to be a sorceror is a birth gift - you either can or you can't weave the forces of magic into spells i.e. turn incantations and bodily gestures of a spell into a magic effect.
        >
        > It follows then that unless a character has the gift he could never learn magic even if the best sorceror in the land was available to teach them.
        >
        > I am not sure if DW actually says that spells require vocal cords and limbs or material components to use. Certainly there are grimoires and the idea of magical study of spells is mentioned. What does casting a spell really entail?
        >
      • urbanfrog2002
        All sorcerors are left handed but not all left handers can be sorcerors...
        Message 3 of 24 , Oct 2, 2009
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          All sorcerors are left handed but not all left handers can be sorcerors...

          --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "Captain Starkiller" <NdeSilva@...> wrote:
          >
          > My view is that you have to be left handed to become a sorcerer.
          > --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "urbanfrog2002" <alex@> wrote:
          > >
          > > So DW tells us that all sorcerors are left handed. So is the ability
          > to use sorcey a birth gift so to speak. Being left handed is simply a
          > bodily manifestation of that ability. Or do you become left handed if
          > you learn sorcery at some point in life (if previously right handed).
          > >
          > > I think that the design intention of the DW world is that the ability
          > to be a sorceror is a birth gift - you either can or you can't weave the
          > forces of magic into spells i.e. turn incantations and bodily gestures
          > of a spell into a magic effect.
          > >
          > > It follows then that unless a character has the gift he could never
          > learn magic even if the best sorceror in the land was available to teach
          > them.
          > >
          > > I am not sure if DW actually says that spells require vocal cords and
          > limbs or material components to use. Certainly there are grimoires and
          > the idea of magical study of spells is mentioned. What does casting a
          > spell really entail?
          > >
          >
        • bonivantchaplain@tiscali.co.uk
          Yes, ALL sorcerors are left handed (or ambidexterous), but not all left handed people are sorcerors! My interpretation is that only about 10% of the population
          Message 4 of 24 , Oct 2, 2009
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            Yes, ALL sorcerors are left handed (or ambidexterous), but not all left handed people are sorcerors!

            My interpretation is that only about 10% of the population are left handed.  Only 10% of these are going to be of any 'adventuring classes'.  Perhaps only 1% of all 'adventuring classes' are sorcerors.

            So judging by the theory of probability, only 1 in 10,000 are left handed, with the opportunity to learn the arcane arts.

             

            Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music

          • urbanfrog2002
            My point is that some (well very few)left handers are born sorcerors whilst others are not. And what would happen to a sorceror who lost his left hand by some
            Message 5 of 24 , Oct 2, 2009
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              My point is that some (well very few)left handers are born sorcerors whilst others are not.

              And what would happen to a sorceror who lost his left hand by some means...

              --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "bonivantchaplain@..." <bonivantchaplain@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Yes, ALL sorcerors are left handed (or ambidexterous), but not all left handed people are sorcerors!
              >
              > My interpretation is that only about 10% of the population are left handed. Only 10% of these are going to be of any 'adventuring classes'. Perhaps only 1% of all 'adventuring classes' are sorcerors.
              >
              > So judging by the theory of probability, only 1 in 10,000 are left handed, with the opportunity to learn the arcane arts.
              >
              > Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
              >
            • Wayne Imlach
              In terms of game rules, don t think actually having a left hand is important - rather that the quality of left-handedness is important. If you were to try and
              Message 6 of 24 , Oct 3, 2009
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                In terms of game rules, don't think actually having a left hand is important - rather that the quality of left-handedness is important.
                 
                If you were to try and rationalise this, perhaps you can only cast spells if there is some element of fey blood in your veins, something that tends to manifest itself in quirks and abberations such as left handedness. You can look at it in a mundane way too - left handed people utilise the right hand side of their brain more. It's possible magic can only be focused and controlled by your right brain hemisphere, therefore left-handers will find magic easier to use.
                 
                Though the actual reason DW is like this? Because that's what superstitious medieval folk believed. 
                 


                 
                2009/10/2 urbanfrog2002 <alex@...>
                 

                My point is that some (well very few)left handers are born sorcerors whilst others are not.

                And what would happen to a sorceror who lost his left hand by some means...



                --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "bonivantchaplain@..." <bonivantchaplain@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Yes, ALL sorcerors are left handed (or ambidexterous), but not all left handed people are sorcerors!
                >
                > My interpretation is that only about 10% of the population are left handed. Only 10% of these are going to be of any 'adventuring classes'. Perhaps only 1% of all 'adventuring classes' are sorcerors.
                >
                > So judging by the theory of probability, only 1 in 10,000 are left handed, with the opportunity to learn the arcane arts.
                >
                > Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
                >


              • urbanfrog2002
                In the advanture supplement Sleeping Gods there is a possibility of sustaining injury specifically to one s left hand. Thebook tstates that this will result in
                Message 7 of 24 , Oct 3, 2009
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                  In the advanture supplement Sleeping Gods there is a possibility of sustaining injury specifically to one's left hand. Thebook tstates that this will result in a 5% chance of spell miscastes by the sorceror !

                  So I say what happens if you lose a hand!
                • Wayne Imlach
                  Well, that seems quite reasonable. All sorcerers are left handed, so they would normally use their dominant hand to make the occult gestures required in
                  Message 8 of 24 , Oct 3, 2009
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                    Well, that seems quite reasonable. All sorcerers are left handed, so they would normally use their dominant hand to make the occult gestures required in spellcasting. If they lose the left hand, they are forced to use the less familiar right hand instead (hence the chance of miscast).
                     
                    Compare it to writing with your 'off' hand - you can do it, but it is normally a somewhat clumsy process when compared to writing with your 'good' hand.
                     
                    However, as I previously said, actually being in possession of a left hand does not determine ones absolute ability to use magic, as borne out by the example you give from 'Sleeping Gods'. 

                    2009/10/3 urbanfrog2002 <alex@...>
                     

                    In the advanture supplement Sleeping Gods there is a possibility of sustaining injury specifically to one's left hand. Thebook tstates that this will result in a 5% chance of spell miscastes by the sorceror !

                    So I say what happens if you lose a hand!


                  • wodenkrait
                    Trying again as my last post went to oblivion... Talking statistics, we should remember that that anybody with Psy and Int greater than 8 can qualify to be a
                    Message 9 of 24 , Oct 4, 2009
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                      Trying again as my last post went to oblivion...

                      Talking statistics, we should remember that that anybody with Psy and Int greater than 8 can qualify to be a sorcerer; this means that over 55% of the population make the grade. Considering only 15% of the population are left-handed (see: Helgrim's Hand) this must mean that most sorcerers start our right handed and become southpaws when they become sorcerers.

                      (Actually, from an anthropic point of view, it could also be argued that that the character generation process assumes that the nominally eligible right-handers are automatically weeded out due to the left-handed prerequisite, even though it isn't stated at the time. I prefer the notion of a traumatic change in neural configuration at some time during a sorcerer's apprenticeship)

                      Cheers,

                      -Kyle

                      --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "bonivantchaplain@..." <bonivantchaplain@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Yes, ALL sorcerors are left handed (or ambidexterous), but not all left handed people are sorcerors!
                      >
                      > My interpretation is that only about 10% of the population are left handed. Only 10% of these are going to be of any 'adventuring classes'. Perhaps only 1% of all 'adventuring classes' are sorcerors.
                      >
                      > So judging by the theory of probability, only 1 in 10,000 are left handed, with the opportunity to learn the arcane arts.
                      >
                      > Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
                      >
                    • bonivantchaplain@tiscali.co.uk
                      I would follow your arguement for an insignificantly small amount of cases, (ambidexterity and some very insistant PC s) but that s all. As you say 55% of the
                      Message 10 of 24 , Oct 5, 2009
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                        I would follow your arguement for an insignificantly small amount of cases, (ambidexterity and some very insistant PC's) but that's all.

                        As you say 55% of the populous are Int 9, PT9, which gives them the POTENTIAL to use arcane forms.  This can be mysticism, elementalism, warlockry, or sorcery.  Dave Morris has stated several times that magic users are very RARE in legend.  There is no way anywhere near these 55% would ever have the opportunity to learn magic.

                        Following on from your logic, if there are 15% southpaws in the population, and 55% of these are Int 9, PT9, then only 7% of the entire population has the potential to be a sorceror - which are all southpaw.  Of these, perhaps only 1% (7 in 10,000) will become full 'adventuring sorcerors' with all the benefits that you would assume. 

                        So there might only be between 1 in 10,000, and 1 in 1,000 sorcerors the general population.  There may be 100 times more potential candidates, who didn't make it for reasons many and various...

                        It is rumoured that Clyster has a sorcerors guild of some kind?!?  With 'city' status, the population might support a 'college' of arcane, with several 'potential' sorcerors.  But now we are back to D&D again......

                        Pax Vobiscum.

                         

                        Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music

                      • Damien Wise
                        ... Yes. Though, they may have other abilities in addition, or choose a different profession. ... No. You ve conflated psychic talent and intelligence with
                        Message 11 of 24 , Oct 5, 2009
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                          On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:44 PM, wodenkrait <imirage@...> wrote:

                          > Talking statistics, we should remember that that anybody with Psy and Int greater than 8 can qualify to be a sorcerer; this means that over 55% of the population make the grade.

                          Yes.
                          Though, they may have other abilities in addition, or choose a
                          different profession.


                          >Considering only 15% of the population are left-handed (see: Helgrim's Hand) this must mean that most sorcerers start our right handed and become southpaws when they become sorcerers.

                          No.
                          You've conflated psychic talent and intelligence with being left-handed.
                          Although they're both necessary for being a sorcerer, they're independent.

                          Working with the stats, the chance of someone in Legend having the
                          potential to be a sorcerer is:
                          The chance of 9 or above on 3d6 is 0.7407, so the chance of two scores
                          of 9 or more is 0.7407x0.7407 (=0.54863649, which is where the 55%
                          figure comes from).
                          With 15% of people in Legend being left-handed, the probability of
                          someone having what it takes to be a Sorcerer is
                          0.54863649 x 0.15 = 0.0822954735, roughly 8%.

                          I think this number would be reduced by lack of opportunity -- not
                          everyone with potential has a friendly, local master-sorcerer who
                          offers to teach kids, nor is it easy to approach a master-sorcerer and
                          say "Please teach me". Or the sorcerer may wish to train only one at
                          a time and pick the outstanding kid with Psychic Talent 18,
                          passing-over the above-average one with Psychic Talent 13. Maybe they
                          learn to fight as a Barbarian (albeit, a smart one with an uncanny
                          sixth sense), or give-up their dreams of adventuring and settle-down
                          to become charcoal-burner?
                          Numbers are further reduced by pressure from family, religion or
                          society in general.

                          To counteract these effects, consider the table on Page 17 of the
                          Bestiary. The chance of encountering a human adventurer who is a
                          Sorcerer is 70-86 (inclusive) on a d100 roll.
                          This suggests that most trained Sorcerers take-up the
                          adventuring/nomadic lifestyle, while other professions are less likely
                          to go on the road (Barbarians join a raiding army, Knights defend
                          their realm or go on the Crusades, etc). Or, maybe that lone Sorcerer
                          you meet with the sad "All out of Magic Points" tale is really an
                          Assassin disguise? ;)


                          > (Actually, from an anthropic point of view, it could also be argued that that the character generation process assumes that the nominally eligible right-handers are automatically weeded out due to the left-handed prerequisite,

                          Yes, this is precisely what I think happens. For a sorcerer to learn
                          the arcane arts, one needs to be tutored by a master sorcerer...and
                          that teacher will quickly determine whether the kid is left-handed or
                          not. Those who are right-handed are weeded-out, and those who remain
                          are candidates for apprenticeship.
                          Handedness is not something that can can be learned or taught, it is
                          intrinsic to the individual. To some extent, this can be ameliorated
                          with practise, thereby letting most left-handed people in the
                          superstitious lands of Legend "pass" as being right-handed and avoid
                          suspicion, name-calling or witch-burning.

                          > even though it isn't stated at the time. I prefer the notion of a traumatic change in neural configuration at some time during a sorcerer's apprenticeship)

                          Except, Dragon Warriors doesn't get into neuroscience. In the real
                          world (where I think approx 10% of the population are left-handed),
                          it's easy to say "you're left-handed because it's hardwired in your
                          brain and nervous system".
                          Living in a predominantly right-handed world makes left-handed people
                          ambidextrous to a degree through learning to open doors on the "wrong"
                          side, using hand-rails on stairs with a counter-intuitive hand, etc.
                          In Roman times, one entered a temple with the right foot first as a
                          sign of respect for the gods ("put your best foot forward"). It's had
                          en effect on combat styles and design of armour. Throughout the 20th
                          century, kids were thought to write with their right hand regardless
                          of natural preference, and I imagine left-handed people managed but
                          only with difficulty. (ie: more left-handed people identify as "a bit
                          ambidextrous" than right-handed people, though this is different to
                          genuinely being equally skilled with both hands).
                          But, in Dragon Warriors, the "reasonable" explanation comes in the
                          form of: "Your daughter was born under a full moon, yes?", or "His
                          spirit is tainted; oh, he's walked the sinister path for years and we
                          never realised", or even "Those sorcerous powers come from a bargain
                          with the devil".

                          As an aside, if you want another explanation for why Sorcerers aren't
                          so good at wielding a weapon, it's not only the amount of time they
                          allot to training (versus the time taken to learn magic). If they
                          need to keep their left hand free to gesture while casting spells,
                          that forces them to hold their melee weapon in their "off hand".


                          While on the topic of adventurers not conforming to "expected" stats,
                          I think it's fair to say they're guidelines at best. By their very
                          nature, adventurers are different to the "normal" population in
                          Legend.
                          On top of that, players and GMs have their own ideas for what they'd
                          like to be/do. eg: although 1% of adventurers in Legend are Assassins,
                          I'm sure that more than 1% of all roleplaying characters are
                          Assassins.
                          We choose to tell stories about interesting and unusual people in
                          extraordinary circumstances. What are the chances of finding _seven_
                          Samurai to defend one small village against a horde of bandits?! :->

                          Cheers,
                          Damien
                          --
                          Damien.Wise@...
                        • wodenkrait
                          As a wise man played by Alec Guinness once said (paraphrasing), both viewpoints are correct, from a certain point of view. ... Except that is irrelevant. They
                          Message 12 of 24 , Oct 5, 2009
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                            As a wise man played by Alec Guinness once said (paraphrasing), both viewpoints are correct, from a certain point of view.


                            > Though, they may have other abilities in addition, or choose a
                            > different profession.

                            Except that is irrelevant. They could be sorcerers, therefore they must already be left handed if sorcerers have to be born lefties.

                            >
                            > No.
                            > You've conflated psychic talent and intelligence with being left-handed.
                            > Although they're both necessary for being a sorcerer, they're independent.

                            Ah, but that's the point. We All you need to be a sorcerer is int/psy 9+. We know that all sorcerers are left handed, therefore anybody with int/psy 9+ must also be left handed. The question is, do they need to be born that way (this is never asserted)?

                            > Working with the stats, the chance of someone in Legend having the
                            > potential to be a sorcerer is:
                            > The chance of 9 or above on 3d6 is 0.7407, so the chance of two scores
                            > of 9 or more is 0.7407x0.7407 (=0.54863649, which is where the 55%
                            > figure comes from).
                            > With 15% of people in Legend being left-handed, the probability of
                            > someone having what it takes to be a Sorcerer is
                            > 0.54863649 x 0.15 = 0.0822954735, roughly 8%.

                            Hence my closing remark; the question is, is this any more evident than the first one? All we know is that all sorcerers are left-handed. We don't know how they got that way. The natural assumption is that they're born that way, but the 3d6 roll prerequisites lead us to a different conclusion.

                            > I think this number would be reduced by lack of opportunity -- not
                            > everyone with potential has a friendly, local master-sorcerer who
                            > offers to teach kids, nor is it easy to approach a master-sorcerer and
                            > say "Please teach me". Or the sorcerer may wish to train only one at
                            > a time and pick the outstanding kid with Psychic Talent 18,
                            > passing-over the above-average one with Psychic Talent 13. Maybe they
                            > learn to fight as a Barbarian (albeit, a smart one with an uncanny
                            > sixth sense), or give-up their dreams of adventuring and settle-down
                            > to become charcoal-burner?
                            > Numbers are further reduced by pressure from family, religion or
                            > society in general.
                            >

                            All irrelevant. The respective 3d6 numbers tell us everything we need to know. All these people could be sorcerers (regardless of whether they actually end up being ditch diggers or jugglers), therefore they must be left handed, assuming they must be born that way to be eligible for the profession.

                            > Handedness is not something that can can be learned or taught, it is
                            > intrinsic to the individual.

                            In a world replete with hellions, androids and body-swapping blankets, this seems like small potatoes.

                            >
                            > Except, Dragon Warriors doesn't get into neuroscience. In the real
                            > world (where I think approx 10% of the population are left-handed),
                            > it's easy to say "you're left-handed because it's hardwired in your
                            > brain and nervous system".
                            --Snip--
                            > But, in Dragon Warriors, the "reasonable" explanation comes in the
                            > form of: "Your daughter was born under a full moon, yes?", or "His
                            > spirit is tainted; oh, he's walked the sinister path for years and we
                            > never realised", or even "Those sorcerous powers come from a bargain
                            > with the devil".

                            All the more reason why handedness could be changed by magic, I'd say.

                            Cheers,
                          • wodenkrait
                            Howdy You ve latched onto the perspective mentioned in my closing parenthetical remarks, but switch around your point of view and you ll get my point. My
                            Message 13 of 24 , Oct 5, 2009
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                              Howdy

                              You've latched onto the perspective mentioned in my closing parenthetical remarks, but switch around your point of view and you'll get my point. My argument wasn't about the scarcity or abundance of sorcerers in the general population, in any case. Nobody disputes that, for numerous social, religious and economic reasons, they are rare.

                              Cheers,

                              -Kyle

                              --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "bonivantchaplain@..." <bonivantchaplain@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > I would follow your arguement for an insignificantly small amount of cases, (ambidexterity and some very insistant PC's) but that's all.
                              >
                              > As you say 55% of the populous are Int 9, PT9, which gives them the POTENTIAL to use arcane forms. This can be mysticism, elementalism, warlockry, or sorcery. Dave Morris has stated several times that magic users are very RARE in legend. There is no way anywhere near these 55% would ever have the opportunity to learn magic.
                              >
                              > Following on from your logic, if there are 15% southpaws in the population, and 55% of these are Int 9, PT9, then only 7% of the entire population has the potential to be a sorceror - which are all southpaw. Of these, perhaps only 1% (7 in 10,000) will become full 'adventuring sorcerors' with all the benefits that you would assume.
                              >
                              > So there might only be between 1 in 10,000, and 1 in 1,000 sorcerors the general population. There may be 100 times more potential candidates, who didn't make it for reasons many and various...
                              >
                              > It is rumoured that Clyster has a sorcerors guild of some kind?!? With 'city' status, the population might support a 'college' of arcane, with several 'potential' sorcerors. But now we are back to D&D again......
                              >
                              > Pax Vobiscum.
                              >
                              > Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
                              >
                            • bonivantchaplain@tiscali.co.uk
                              This is a bit like Clint Eastwood, in Firefox. He had to THINK in Russian in order to fly the plane. I suppose I could entertain the idea of learning to
                              Message 14 of 24 , Oct 5, 2009
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                                This is a bit like Clint Eastwood, in Firefox.  He had to THINK in Russian in order to fly the plane.  I suppose I could entertain the idea of learning to think a different way, learning to use a different hand, etc.

                                Perhaps then, natural southpaws would have a distinct advantage over 'converts' when learning and applying sorcerous arts?

                                 

                                 

                                Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music

                              • Christopher Loh
                                One of the differences btween sorcerors and D&D wizards is that sorceror does not require spellbooks. Let us see how this impact on the possibility of
                                Message 15 of 24 , Oct 5, 2009
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                                  One of the differences btween sorcerors and D&D wizards is that sorceror does not require spellbooks.
                                   
                                  Let us see how this impact on the possibility of guild....
                                   
                                  While D&D will cluster around like some old professors to exchange spells and stuff... there is no incentive for the sorceror to do the same.
                                   
                                  In D&D, wizards are fairly common as well (in comparison to DW setting) thus there is very little chance for the wizard to excercise monopoly status.
                                   
                                  If you are a sorceror in DW setting, its as if you are a mutant in the normal world. You have a rare gift that other people do not have and the following are some possible scenarios.
                                   
                                  1. At low levels, you are afraid of being torched alive by villagers who is thinking that you are someone cursed and have a pact with the devil. You would rather that your status of a sorceror is being kept a secret. One must be pretty foolhardy to join in a guild and let everyone know that he is a sorceror...
                                   
                                  2. At high level, you are are afraid of your experiments (brewing potions, making magical items) being ruined by greedy adventurers...
                                   
                                  3. There is no incentive to join a guild since you do not exchange your spells (standard package for everyone)...
                                   
                                  Chris
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 3:42 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [dragwars] Re: All sorcerors are left handed...

                                   

                                  I would follow your arguement for an insignificantly small amount of cases, (ambidexterity and some very insistant PC's) but that's all.

                                  As you say 55% of the populous are Int 9, PT9, which gives them the POTENTIAL to use arcane forms.  This can be mysticism, elementalism, warlockry, or sorcery.  Dave Morris has stated several times that magic users are very RARE in legend.  There is no way anywhere near these 55% would ever have the opportunity to learn magic.

                                  Following on from your logic, if there are 15% southpaws in the population, and 55% of these are Int 9, PT9, then only 7% of the entire population has the potential to be a sorceror - which are all southpaw.  Of these, perhaps only 1% (7 in 10,000) will become full 'adventuring sorcerors' with all the benefits that you would assume. 

                                  So there might only be between 1 in 10,000, and 1 in 1,000 sorcerors the general population.  There may be 100 times more potential candidates, who didn't make it for reasons many and various...

                                  It is rumoured that Clyster has a sorcerors guild of some kind?!?  With 'city' status, the population might support a 'college' of arcane, with several 'potential' sorcerors.  But now we are back to D&D again......

                                  Pax Vobiscum.

                                   

                                  Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali. co.uk/music

                                • wallis154
                                  Just for the record, Magnum Opus s attitude to this is that to learn any sorcerous powers a character (PC or NPC) must be born left-handed. Teaching yourself
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Oct 5, 2009
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                                    Just for the record, Magnum Opus's attitude to this is that to learn any sorcerous powers a character (PC or NPC) must be born left-handed. Teaching yourself to be left-hand dominant, or to be magically transformed, does not work. This also applies to the sorcerers and shamans of most other races (e.g Volucreth) but not to the more inherently sorcerous beings such as the Fay, elves, boggarts, demons and so on.

                                    This doesn't mean that your game should go the same way, but this is the direction we'll be following in published material for Dragon Warriors.

                                    Also, we've recently released a short document that touches on the subject of sorcerers and handism, but--I'll shut up now.
                                  • Wayne Imlach
                                    Are Warlocks and Elementalists left handed too? Or only Sorcerers? I can t recall if I read anything explicit about the Warlock and Elementalist profession.
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Oct 5, 2009
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                                      Are Warlocks and Elementalists left handed too? Or only Sorcerers? I can't recall if I read anything explicit about the Warlock and Elementalist profession.
                                       
                                       

                                      From: wallis154
                                      Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:35 PM
                                      Subject: [dragwars] Re: All sorcerors are left handed...

                                       

                                      Just for the record, Magnum Opus's attitude to this is that to learn any sorcerous powers a character (PC or NPC) must be born left-handed. Teaching yourself to be left-hand dominant, or to be magically transformed, does not work. This also applies to the sorcerers and shamans of most other races (e.g Volucreth) but not to the more inherently sorcerous beings such as the Fay, elves, boggarts, demons and so on.

                                      This doesn't mean that your game should go the same way, but this is the direction we'll be following in published material for Dragon Warriors.

                                      Also, we've recently released a short document that touches on the subject of sorcerers and handism, but--I'll shut up now.

                                    • Christopher Loh
                                      Approach Wallis.... 1. With some $$$ 2. With some chicks in bikinis 3. With some beer 4. With a big pliers to loosen the mouth if all else fails :P Chris ...
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Oct 5, 2009
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                                        Approach Wallis....
                                         
                                        1. With some $$$
                                        2. With some chicks in bikinis
                                        3. With some beer
                                        4. With a big pliers to loosen the mouth if all else fails :P
                                         
                                        Chris
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: wallis154
                                        Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 8:35 PM
                                        Subject: [dragwars] Re: All sorcerors are left handed...

                                         

                                        Just for the record, Magnum Opus's attitude to this is that to learn any sorcerous powers a character (PC or NPC) must be born left-handed. Teaching yourself to be left-hand dominant, or to be magically transformed, does not work. This also applies to the sorcerers and shamans of most other races (e.g Volucreth) but not to the more inherently sorcerous beings such as the Fay, elves, boggarts, demons and so on.

                                        This doesn't mean that your game should go the same way, but this is the direction we'll be following in published material for Dragon Warriors.

                                        Also, we've recently released a short document that touches on the subject of sorcerers and handism, but--I'll shut up now.

                                      • wodenkrait
                                        Haha. I like that idea. Maybe if you manage to roll 15 or less on d100 when creating your sorcerer, you get a +1 to a spell s speed, healing, or MA, and/or can
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Oct 5, 2009
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                                          Haha. I like that idea.

                                          Maybe if you manage to roll 15 or less on d100 when creating your sorcerer, you get a +1 to a spell's speed, healing, or MA, and/or can reduce miscasting probabilites by half. That sort of thing.

                                          It all adds to the richness of the game, I think.

                                          Cheers,

                                          -Kyle

                                          --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "bonivantchaplain@..." <bonivantchaplain@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > This is a bit like Clint Eastwood, in Firefox. He had to THINK in Russian in order to fly the plane. I suppose I could entertain the idea of learning to think a different way, learning to use a different hand, etc.
                                          >
                                          > Perhaps then, natural southpaws would have a distinct advantage over 'converts' when learning and applying sorcerous arts?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music
                                          >
                                        • wodenkrait
                                          Well then I trust that future editions of DW will require players to roll 15 or less on d100 if they want their characters to be sorcerers. Also please print
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Oct 5, 2009
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                                            Well then I trust that future editions of DW will require players to roll 15 or less on d100 if they want their characters to be sorcerers. Also please print an erratum to this effect immediately. Otherwise I will be forced to write to my member of parliament ;-)

                                            Cheers,

                                            -Kyle

                                            --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "wallis154" <james.wallis@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Just for the record, Magnum Opus's attitude to this is that to learn any sorcerous powers a character (PC or NPC) must be born left-handed. Teaching yourself to be left-hand dominant, or to be magically transformed, does not work. This also applies to the sorcerers and shamans of most other races (e.g Volucreth) but not to the more inherently sorcerous beings such as the Fay, elves, boggarts, demons and so on.
                                            >
                                            > This doesn't mean that your game should go the same way, but this is the direction we'll be following in published material for Dragon Warriors.
                                            >
                                            > Also, we've recently released a short document that touches on the subject of sorcerers and handism, but--I'll shut up now.
                                            >
                                          • rumtap@aol.com
                                            I?think it is up to the person running the game to paint the landscape. Be that a magic laden realm with sorcerers on every corner, or a world where magic is
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Oct 5, 2009
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                                              I think it is up to the person running the game to paint the landscape. Be that a magic laden realm with sorcerers on every corner, or a world where magic is rare as hen's teeth.
                                               
                                              Dave gave a black and white inspiration, it's up to the GM to add the colour.


                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: bonivantchaplain@... <bonivantchaplain@...>
                                              To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Mon, Oct 5, 2009 6:42 pm
                                              Subject: Re: [dragwars] Re: All sorcerors are left handed...

                                               
                                              I would follow your arguement for an insignificantly small amount of cases, (ambidexterity and some very insistant PC's) but that's all.
                                              As you say 55% of the populous are Int 9, PT9, which gives them the POTENTIAL to use arcane forms.  This can be mysticism, elementalism, warlockry, or sorcery.  Dave Morris has stated several times that magic users are very RARE in legend.  There is no way anywhere near these 55% would ever have the opportunity to learn magic.
                                              Following on from your logic, if there are 15% southpaws in the population, and 55% of these are Int 9, PT9, then only 7% of the entire population has the potential to be a sorceror - which are all southpaw.  Of these, perhaps only 1% (7 in 10,000) will become full 'adventuring sorcerors' with all the benefits that you would assume. 
                                              So there might only be between 1 in 10,000, and 1 in 1,000 sorcerors the general population.  There may be 100 times more potential candidates, who didn't make it for reasons many and various...
                                              It is rumoured that Clyster has a sorcerors guild of some kind?!?  With 'city' status, the population might support a 'college' of arcane, with several 'potential' sorcerors.  But now we are back to D&D again......
                                              Pax Vobiscum.
                                               
                                              Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali. co.uk/music
                                            • Captain Starkiller
                                              From what I remember without looking at book six, it is just Sorcerers that have to be left handed. And the bit I refer to is Helgrim s hand, a lovely magical
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Oct 6, 2009
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                                                From what I remember without looking at book six, it is just Sorcerers that have to be left handed.  And the bit I refer to is Helgrim's hand, a lovely magical item which I am going to curse one of my players with one day... >:) 
                                                --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Imlach" <wimlach@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Are Warlocks and Elementalists left handed too? Or only Sorcerers? I can't recall if I read anything explicit about the Warlock and Elementalist profession.
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • Kharille Démoniaque
                                                ... Better things you can curse them with. One thing I admire about *Cough* Warhammer is the old Realms of Chaos Slaves to Darkness. Appart from the
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Oct 6, 2009
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                                                  --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "Captain Starkiller" <NdeSilva@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > From what I remember without looking at book six, it is just Sorcerers
                                                  > that have to be left handed. And the bit I refer to is Helgrim's hand,
                                                  > a lovely magical item which I am going to curse one of my players with
                                                  > one day... [>:)]


                                                  Better things you can curse them with. One thing I admire about *Cough* Warhammer is the old Realms of Chaos Slaves to Darkness. Appart from the plentiful illustrations of daemonettes... the mutations were impressive. Now how about a human sized crab claw for a hand?....

                                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_handedness


                                                  Way I see it, weirdos would've been eliminated over the centuries... They probably would've been more common during the medieval times....

                                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amelia_(birth_defect)
                                                • Christopher Loh
                                                  Hmm... Personally I am not sure about that... On one hand, I agree that GM is to have some liberty in defining the original DW gameworld (in BK 6) but to
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Oct 6, 2009
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                                                    Hmm... Personally I am not sure about that...
                                                     
                                                    On one hand, I agree that GM is to have some liberty in defining the original DW gameworld (in BK 6) but to change that to a magic laden realm is abit to far fetch...
                                                     
                                                    To draw an anology... The world that is create by Dave Morris is akin to making the north pole to become California...
                                                     
                                                    Of course, as long as the GM and the players is comfortable, who are the rest to comment? :)
                                                     
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:01 AM
                                                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Re: All sorcerors are left handed...

                                                     

                                                    I think it is up to the person running the game to paint the landscape. Be that a magic laden realm with sorcerers on every corner, or a world where magic is rare as hen's teeth.
                                                     
                                                    Dave gave a black and white inspiration, it's up to the GM to add the colour.


                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: bonivantchaplain@ tiscali.co. uk <bonivantchaplain@ tiscali.co. uk>
                                                    To: dragwars@yahoogroup s.com
                                                    Sent: Mon, Oct 5, 2009 6:42 pm
                                                    Subject: Re: [dragwars] Re: All sorcerors are left handed...

                                                     
                                                    I would follow your arguement for an insignificantly small amount of cases, (ambidexterity and some very insistant PC's) but that's all.
                                                    As you say 55% of the populous are Int 9, PT9, which gives them the POTENTIAL to use arcane forms.  This can be mysticism, elementalism, warlockry, or sorcery.  Dave Morris has stated several times that magic users are very RARE in legend.  There is no way anywhere near these 55% would ever have the opportunity to learn magic.
                                                    Following on from your logic, if there are 15% southpaws in the population, and 55% of these are Int 9, PT9, then only 7% of the entire population has the potential to be a sorceror - which are all southpaw.  Of these, perhaps only 1% (7 in 10,000) will become full 'adventuring sorcerors' with all the benefits that you would assume. 
                                                    So there might only be between 1 in 10,000, and 1 in 1,000 sorcerors the general population.  There may be 100 times more potential candidates, who didn't make it for reasons many and various...
                                                    It is rumoured that Clyster has a sorcerors guild of some kind?!?  With 'city' status, the population might support a 'college' of arcane, with several 'potential' sorcerors.  But now we are back to D&D again......
                                                    Pax Vobiscum.
                                                     
                                                    Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali. co.uk/music

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