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Re: Pilgrim returning to BBC Radio 4 tomorrow

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  • Tom
    ... listen yet!).. Just listened to the second one... still enjoying it. Does anyone know how to get hold of the previous series (legally) via the internet?
    Message 1 of 25 , Mar 1, 2013
      --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, John Constable <john@...> wrote:
      > Another one broadcast today (no spoiler please, not had a chance to listen yet!)..
      Just listened to the second one... still enjoying it. Does anyone know how to get hold of the previous series (legally) via the internet? I'm not holding out too much hope - I spent some time trying to get hold of the BBCs 'Modesty Blaise' series from last year, but no luck. Do they repeat things from time to time?

      > On 27 Feb 2013, at 06:33, Chris cgstaite@... wrote:
      > > Even so, I'm finding it a little hard to follow what's going on, given there's a lot of reference to the previous three series - can anyone give a potted history of what's what and who's who?
       I quite enjoyed being dropped in the deep end. As an old Dragon Warrior it was fun to try and use my fairy lore skills to work it out as I went along. Very Susanna Clarke, with a healthy dash of Katherine Briggs!

      Tom.


    • John Constable
      ... If they do, I ve never caught it, but I suspect it may come up on Radio4 Extra. I bought the second series from audiogo.co.uk, which is the BBC s
      Message 2 of 25 , Mar 1, 2013

        On 1 Mar 2013, at 10:46, "Tom" <clare_@...> wrote:

        Just listened to the second one... still enjoying it. Does anyone know how to get hold of the previous series (legally) via the internet? I'm not holding out too much hope - I spent some time trying to get hold of the BBCs 'Modesty Blaise' series from last year, but no luck. Do they repeat things from time to time?

        If they do, I've never caught it, but I suspect it may come up on Radio4 Extra.  I bought the second series from audiogo.co.uk, which is the BBC's commercial audiobook arm, iPlayered the third series and..aquired the first off the internet, since there was no other way to get them at the time - although I see they've since added them; http://www.audiogo.com/uk/pilgrim-series-1-complete-sebastian-baczkiewicz-gid-1004915 (£2.99 for the series! Can't complain even if it was free on air at the time..).

         I quite enjoyed being dropped in the deep end. As an old Dragon Warrior it was fun to try and use my fairy lore skills to work it out as I went along. Very Susanna Clarke, with a healthy dash of Katherine Briggs!


        I'd not heard of Dr Briggs work before this so I went looking - £110/book on Amazon! I fear I'll pass this time..

      • Tom
        ... £110/book on Amazon! I fear I ll pass this time.. ... Try the library. Briggs was the go-to writer for my adolescent self, desperate to find more Dragon
        Message 3 of 25 , Mar 2, 2013
          --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, John Constable <john@...> wrote:
           
          > I'd not heard of Dr Briggs work before this so I went looking - £110/book on Amazon! I fear I'll pass this time..
          >
          Try the library. Briggs was the go-to writer for my adolescent self, desperate to find more Dragon Warriors-esque material. The Dictionary of Fairies is the best book, but her Dictionary of English Folk Tales is full of great FRP ideas, too. Her fiction output is small, but Kate Crackernuts and Hobberty Dick are worth a look. The latter is about the fairy that protects a manor house through several generations of a family.

          I doubt I'm the only one that used to pour over her books in the Eighties - Bulya, I wonder if you came across her?

          Tom.


        • naimadyam
          Certainly sounds familiar. My younger reading was mainly Patricia Wrightson, Alan Garner and the like. Teenage years I remember Michael Scott Rohan and a ton
          Message 4 of 25 , Mar 3, 2013
            Certainly sounds familiar.

            My younger reading was mainly Patricia Wrightson, Alan Garner and the like. Teenage years I remember Michael Scott Rohan and a ton of 'The Usual Suspects'( Tolkien et. al).

            I'd say probably the most influencial writer on my DW stuff ( putting aside the many history/mythology/folklore books I've read over the years) would be Elizabeth Boyer in terms of NPCs attitudes to 'adventurers' and the common folks handling of folklore and mythology rocking up on their doorstep in the middle of the night.

            --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <clare_@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, John Constable <john@> wrote:
            >
            > > I'd not heard of Dr Briggs work before this so I went looking -
            > £110/book on Amazon! I fear I'll pass this time..
            > >
            > Try the library. Briggs was the go-to writer for my adolescent self,
            > desperate to find more Dragon Warriors-esque material. The Dictionary of
            > Fairies is the best book, but her Dictionary of English Folk Tales is
            > full of great FRP ideas, too. Her fiction output is small, but Kate
            > Crackernuts and Hobberty Dick are worth a look. The latter is about the
            > fairy that protects a manor house through several generations of a
            > family.
            >
            > I doubt I'm the only one that used to pour over her books in the
            > Eighties - Bulya, I wonder if you came across her?
            >
            > Tom.
            >
          • Nigel Koop
            What s the Elizabeth Boyer books? Sounds like they could be useful. Maybe add them into the wiki other books section with Ken Follett s Pillars Of The
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 3, 2013
              What's the Elizabeth Boyer books? Sounds like they could be useful.
              Maybe add them into the wiki 'other books' section with Ken Follett's
              Pillars Of The Earth?





              On 3/3/13 9:29 PM, naimadyam wrote:
              > Certainly sounds familiar.
              >
              > My younger reading was mainly Patricia Wrightson, Alan Garner and the
              > like. Teenage years I remember Michael Scott Rohan and a ton of 'The
              > Usual Suspects'( Tolkien et. al).
              >
              > I'd say probably the most influencial writer on my DW stuff ( putting
              > aside the many history/mythology/folklore books I've read over the
              > years) would be Elizabeth Boyer in terms of NPCs attitudes to
              > 'adventurers' and the common folks handling of folklore and mythology
              > rocking up on their doorstep in the middle of the night.
              >
              > --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com <mailto:dragwars%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > "Tom" wrote:
              > >
              > > --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com <mailto:dragwars%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > John Constable wrote:
              > >
              > > > I'd not heard of Dr Briggs work before this so I went looking -
              > > £110/book on Amazon! I fear I'll pass this time..
              > > >
              > > Try the library. Briggs was the go-to writer for my adolescent self,
              > > desperate to find more Dragon Warriors-esque material. The Dictionary of
              > > Fairies is the best book, but her Dictionary of English Folk Tales is
              > > full of great FRP ideas, too. Her fiction output is small, but Kate
              > > Crackernuts and Hobberty Dick are worth a look. The latter is about the
              > > fairy that protects a manor house through several generations of a
              > > family.
              > >
              > > I doubt I'm the only one that used to pour over her books in the
              > > Eighties - Bulya, I wonder if you came across her?
              > >
              > > Tom.
              > >
              >
              >
            • Tom
              ... Certainly sounds familiar. My younger reading was mainly Patricia Wrightson, Alan Garner and the like. Teenage years I remember Michael Scott Rohan and a
              Message 6 of 25 , Mar 4, 2013
                --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "naimadyam" <ragabash_fang@...> wrote:
                 Certainly sounds familiar.

                My younger reading was mainly Patricia Wrightson, Alan Garner and the like.
                Teenage years I remember Michael Scott Rohan and a ton of 'The Usual Suspects' (Tolkien et. al).

                I was thinking mainly about Briggs' non-fiction, especially A Dictionary of Fairies, hobgoblins, brownies, bogies, and other supernatural creatures. This is a fantastic book, perfect for any FRPer, but especially for Dragon Warriors. It's just what it says on the label: an A to Y index of the fairies of Britain.

                As well as describing general types of spirits (i.e, hobmen, trows, the heroic fairies, fairy dogs, and so-on), it has individual entries for such worthies as the Brag, Awd Goggie, the Galley-beggar, Shellycoat, and the terrifying Boneless — each a unique fairy-thing or bogy-beast (as much as I love traditional FPR bestiaries, I strongly suspect we lose out by insisting on races and creature `types', and ignoring the peculiar spirits and monsters of legend).

                It also has a multitude of articles on such matters as "Faults condemned by the fairies", "infringement of fairy privacy", "protection against fairies", and "the fairy market".

                All-in-all, A Dictionary of Fairies is a great source of information and inspiration for referees. And it was written by a scholar, so it doesn't suffer from the tweeness (or worse, self-conscious hipness) that so much modern fairy-literature is saturated with. It should be available in most city public libraries, and is republished in paperback from time to time.


                Tom.
              • naimadyam
                I d say I ve definetely read that. I have a massive collection of reference books of folktales, myths, legends, dictionarys of creatures and gods etc. I ll
                Message 7 of 25 , Mar 5, 2013
                  I'd say I've definetely read that. I have a massive collection of reference books of folktales, myths, legends, dictionarys of creatures and gods etc. I'll have to have a dig through the shelves. :)

                  I was thinking mainly about Briggs' non-fiction, especially A
                  > Dictionary of Fairies, hobgoblins, brownies, bogies, and other
                  > supernatural creatures. This is a fantastic book, perfect for any FRPer,
                  > but especially for Dragon Warriors. It's just what it says on the
                  > label: an A to Y index of the fairies of Britain.
                  >
                  > As well as describing general types of spirits (i.e, hobmen, trows, the
                  > heroic fairies, fairy dogs, and so-on), it has individual entries for
                  > such worthies as the Brag, Awd Goggie, the Galley-beggar, Shellycoat,
                  > and the terrifying Boneless — each a unique fairy-thing or
                  > bogy-beast (as much as I love traditional FPR bestiaries, I strongly
                  > suspect we lose out by insisting on races and creature `types',
                  > and ignoring the peculiar spirits and monsters of legend).
                  >
                  > It also has a multitude of articles on such matters as "Faults
                  > condemned by the fairies", "infringement of fairy privacy",
                  > "protection against fairies", and "the fairy market".
                  >
                  > All-in-all, A Dictionary of Fairies is a great source of information and
                  > inspiration for referees. And it was written by a scholar, so it
                  > doesn't suffer from the tweeness (or worse, self-conscious hipness)
                  > that so much modern fairy-literature is saturated with. It should be
                  > available in most city public libraries, and is republished in paperback
                  > from time to time.
                  >
                  > Tom.
                  >
                • mikepage1968
                  Erm. Why hasn t Ellis Peters name come up yet? Her Cadfael series is set at the same time as PotE (Stephen/Maud), a veritable mine of plot elements and
                  Message 8 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
                    Erm. Why hasn't Ellis Peters' name come up yet? Her Cadfael series is set at the same time as PotE (Stephen/Maud), a veritable mine of plot elements and background.

                    --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, John Constable <john@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > On 27 Feb 2013, at 06:33, Chris <cgstaite@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Listening now - not downloadable, but streams on the bbc player quite well here in NZ…
                    >
                    > ahem. get-iplayer. ahem.
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Even so, I'm finding it a little hard to follow what's going on, given there's a lot of reference to the previous three series - can anyone give a potted history of what's what and who's who?
                    > >
                    >
                    > As you say, there's some back history (but always more hinted at than is covered in the programs), but the pertinent facts are that Pilgrim's daughter has been a 'guest' of the King of Faerie since he displeased him a season ago, and at the end of last season he had just got his hands on Merlin's original book of spells (the aberon/oberon), and it rather looks like he's started on a campaign to put things right (which has never ended well for him in the past; he always pays a price for doing the right thing). The character of 'Mr Speed' has been a recurring one throughout the series, mostly as a messenger from The King, and one who has always enjoyed delivering his news a little too much, but we never got the backstory until that episode..
                    >
                    > Another one broadcast today (no spoiler please, not had a chance to listen yet!)..
                    >
                  • Stacy Buckler
                    The Brother Cadfel one reminded me of a game by Beyond Belief Games: Medieval Mysteries: it s kind of based on Castles & Crusades, but might be worth a look
                    Message 9 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
                      The Brother Cadfel one reminded me of a game by Beyond Belief Games: Medieval Mysteries: it's kind of based on Castles & Crusades, but might be worth a look for ideas as well: & probably not hard to convert
                       
                      Peace
                      Stacy
                       

                      To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                      From: mpage@...
                      Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:49:32 +0000
                      Subject: [dragwars] Re: Pilgrim returning to BBC Radio 4 tomorrow

                       
                      Erm. Why hasn't Ellis Peters' name come up yet? Her Cadfael series is set at the same time as PotE (Stephen/Maud), a veritable mine of plot elements and background.

                      --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, John Constable wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > On 27 Feb 2013, at 06:33, Chris wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Listening now - not downloadable, but streams on the bbc player quite well here in NZ…
                      >
                      > ahem. get-iplayer. ahem.
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Even so, I'm finding it a little hard to follow what's going on, given there's a lot of reference to the previous three series - can anyone give a potted history of what's what and who's who?
                      > >
                      >
                      > As you say, there's some back history (but always more hinted at than is covered in the programs), but the pertinent facts are that Pilgrim's daughter has been a 'guest' of the King of Faerie since he displeased him a season ago, and at the end of last season he had just got his hands on Merlin's original book of spells (the aberon/oberon), and it rather looks like he's started on a campaign to put things right (which has never ended well for him in the past; he always pays a price for doing the right thing). The character of 'Mr Speed' has been a recurring one throughout the series, mostly as a messenger from The King, and one who has always enjoyed delivering his news a little too much, but we never got the backstory until that episode..
                      >
                      > Another one broadcast today (no spoiler please, not had a chance to listen yet!)..
                      >


                    • bonivantchaplain@tiscali.co.uk
                      Indeed the Friar Profession (Ordo Draconis) was based on Cadfael.
                      Message 10 of 25 , Mar 7, 2013
                        Indeed the Friar Profession (Ordo Draconis) was based on Cadfael.
                      • Wayne Imlach
                        Though to be picky Cadfael was a Knight in his younger adventuring days, and only changed profession in his later years. Something easily emulated with, oh, a
                        Message 11 of 25 , Mar 7, 2013
                          Though to be picky Cadfael was a Knight in his younger adventuring days, and only changed profession in his later years. Something easily emulated with, oh, a skill based character progression system. Winking smile
                           
                           
                           
                          Date: 07 March 2013 10:24
                          Subject: Re: [dragwars] Re: Pilgrim returning to BBC Radio 4 tomorrow
                           
                           

                          Indeed the Friar Profession (Ordo Draconis) was based on Cadfael.

                        • Stacy Buckler
                          No real surprise there: look at a lot of the medieval training manuals for sword fighting etc: there s a lot of knights turned monk or similar, one way to keep
                          Message 12 of 25 , Mar 7, 2013

                             No real surprise there: look at a lot of the medieval training manuals for sword fighting etc: there's a lot of knights turned monk or similar, one way to keep things going

                            To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                            From: wimlach@...
                            Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 14:27:52 +0100
                            Subject: Re: [dragwars] Re: Pilgrim returning to BBC Radio 4 tomorrow

                             
                            Though to be picky Cadfael was a Knight in his younger adventuring days, and only changed profession in his later years. Something easily emulated with, oh, a skill based character progression system. Winking smile
                             
                             
                             
                            Date: 07 March 2013 10:24
                            Subject: Re: [dragwars] Re: Pilgrim returning to BBC Radio 4 tomorrow
                             
                             

                            Indeed the Friar Profession (Ordo Draconis) was based on Cadfael.


                          • gwindel2000
                            ... I don t know a lot of medieval training manuals (renaissance, yes, but medieval?), and I don t really see how knights turned monks would feature into it. I
                            Message 13 of 25 , Mar 7, 2013
                              --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, Stacy Buckler <waylander2004@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > No real surprise there: look at a lot of the medieval training manuals for sword fighting etc: there's a lot of knights turned monk or similar, (...)

                              I don't know a lot of medieval training manuals (renaissance, yes, but medieval?), and I don't really see how knights turned monks would feature into it. I am a little lost, could you be more specific to which training manual you are referring?
                            • gwindel2000
                              To be double picky, I don t remember that he was a Knight, just a soldier.
                              Message 14 of 25 , Mar 7, 2013
                                To be double picky, I don't remember that he was a Knight, just a soldier.

                                --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Imlach" <wimlach@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Though to be picky Cadfael was a Knight in his younger adventuring days, and only changed profession in his later years. Something easily emulated with, oh, a skill based character progression system.
                                >
                              • Wayne Imlach
                                Ah, I meant knight in the context of dw profession rather than landed title. I think the previous poster is implying that training manuals were written by
                                Message 15 of 25 , Mar 7, 2013
                                  Ah, I meant knight in the context of dw profession rather than landed title.

                                  I think the previous poster is implying that training manuals were written by knights or soldiers turned clergy as that was a common path to literacy.



                                  On 7 Mar 2013, at 17:17, "gwindel2000" <Bhoritz@...> wrote:

                                   

                                  To be double picky, I don't remember that he was a Knight, just a soldier.

                                  --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Imlach" <wimlach@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Though to be picky Cadfael was a Knight in his younger adventuring days, and only changed profession in his later years. Something easily emulated with, oh, a skill based character progression system.
                                  >

                                • gwindel2000
                                  Oh, ok. But if we are speaking in DW context, then Cadfael is easy to emulate. He was a Knight up to a certain level, did retire from adventuring and became a
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Mar 7, 2013
                                    Oh, ok. But if we are speaking in DW context, then Cadfael is easy to emulate. He was a Knight up to a certain level, did retire from adventuring and became a monk. Mystic is not a profession, so he is still technically a knight but doesn't gain any XP anymore.
                                    No need for a skill based system.




                                    --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Ah, I meant knight in the context of dw profession rather than landed title.
                                    >
                                  • Wayne Imlach
                                    Ah, let me add some more context. Deep breath... Cadfael is a soldier turned monk in literary terms. To emulate this in DW from a player’s perspective
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Mar 7, 2013
                                      Ah, let me add some more context.
                                       
                                      Deep breath...
                                       
                                      Cadfael is a soldier turned monk in literary terms. To emulate this in DW from a player’s perspective (Knight turned Friar) isn’t something the system allows in vanilla form and requires a bit of house ruling from the GM. However, a skill based system, rather than fixed professions, would support this naturally.
                                       
                                      The original point was just a wee bit of subtle self promo for my own skill system that’s in the files section that would handle this if Friar skills were added (at the moment only canon skills are included).
                                       
                                      And relax...
                                       
                                       
                                      Date: 07 March 2013 18:04
                                      Subject: [dragwars] Re: Pilgrim returning to BBC Radio 4 tomorrow
                                       
                                       

                                      Oh, ok. But if we are speaking in DW context, then Cadfael is easy to emulate. He was a Knight up to a certain level, did retire from adventuring and became a monk. Mystic is not a profession, so he is still technically a knight but doesn't gain any XP anymore.
                                      No need for a skill based system.

                                      --- In mailto:dragwars%40yahoogroups.com, Wayne Imlach <wimlach@...> wrote:

                                      >
                                      > Ah, I meant knight in
                                      the context of dw profession rather than landed title.
                                      >

                                    • gwindel2000
                                      No problem with that. I am quite sure that in the quarter century since DW release we have all made a skill system for it at one time or another (and also some
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Mar 7, 2013
                                        No problem with that. I am quite sure that in the quarter century since DW release we have all made a skill system for it at one time or another (and also some rules, weapons, etc to play in other periods, pulps, fantasy,...).
                                        What I wanted to stress, is that classes are not professions. You could be a barbarian working as a tavern keeper or a soldier turned monk. Some priests or monks or friars can be mystic, but most of all are not.
                                        I decided that, for me, skills are not needed and even disruptive. I simply adjust difficulty levels depending on the characters. But whatever works for you....

                                        --- In dragwars@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Imlach" <wimlach@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Ah, let me add some more context.
                                        >
                                        > Deep breath...
                                        >
                                        > Cadfael is a soldier turned monk in literary terms. To emulate this in DW from a player’s perspective (Knight turned Friar) isn’t something the system allows in vanilla form and requires a bit of house ruling from the GM. However, a skill based system, rather than fixed professions, would support this naturally.
                                        >
                                        > The original point was just a wee bit of subtle self promo for my own skill system that’s in the files section that would handle this if Friar skills were added (at the moment only canon skills are included).
                                        >
                                        > And relax...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: gwindel2000
                                        > Date: 07 March 2013 18:04
                                        > To: dragwars@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [dragwars] Re: Pilgrim returning to BBC Radio 4 tomorrow
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Oh, ok. But if we are speaking in DW context, then Cadfael is easy to emulate. He was a Knight up to a certain level, did retire from adventuring and became a monk. Mystic is not a profession, so he is still technically a knight but doesn't gain any XP anymore.
                                        > No need for a skill based system.
                                        >
                                        > --- In mailto:dragwars%40yahoogroups.com, Wayne Imlach <wimlach@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Ah, I meant knight in the context of dw profession rather than landed title.
                                        > >
                                        >
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