Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

what's new re: XP-group?

Expand Messages
  • larry.lefever@verizon.net
    A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the Engineering Gangsters group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group (specifically to meet here in NYC). I was one
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 1, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters" group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group (specifically to meet here in NYC).

      I was one of those who showed interest therein.

      Has interest therein waned?

      Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle? I don't recall that clearly.

      Larry LeFever
    • Rim, Mark
      larry, gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list. either way, we can still get things moving. we should gather interest and then probably
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 1, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        larry,

        gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list.

        either way, we can still get things moving. we should gather interest and
        then probably take the discussion off-line, between only interested parties.
        it may or may not require a separte study group.

        xp is just one of the options for the next EGG session. here are some of the
        topics i've heard:
        * xp (gunjan's suggestion)
        * domain driven design (henryk's suggestion)
        * FIT framework (also from henryk)

        --mark




        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 PM
        > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
        >
        >
        > A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters"
        > group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group
        > (specifically to meet here in NYC).
        >
        > I was one of those who showed interest therein.
        >
        > Has interest therein waned?
        >
        > Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the
        > "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle? I don't recall that clearly.
        >
        > Larry LeFever

        ==============================================================================
        This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and
        private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or
        privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the
        intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from
        your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must
        not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any
        part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE
        GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE
        ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve the
        right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views
        expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the
        message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the
        views of any such entity.
        Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is
        indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to
        deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions
        should be treated as preliminary only and subject to our formal written
        confirmation.
        ==============================================================================
      • larry.lefever@verizon.net
        Mark, That FIT project actually looks quite interesting. I d vote for that, instead of XP generally. Any suggestions for how best to stir up interest? Larry
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 1, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Mark,

          That FIT project actually looks quite interesting.

          I'd vote for that, instead of XP generally.

          Any suggestions for how best to stir up interest?

          Larry


          >
          > From: "Rim, Mark" <mark.rim@...>
          > Date: 2003/10/01 Wed PM 06:07:07 CDT
          > To: "'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'" <dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com>
          > CC: "'gunjan_doshi@...'" <gunjan_doshi@...>
          > Subject: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
          >
          > larry,
          >
          > gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list.
          >
          > either way, we can still get things moving. we should gather interest and
          > then probably take the discussion off-line, between only interested parties.
          > it may or may not require a separte study group.
          >
          > xp is just one of the options for the next EGG session. here are some of the
          > topics i've heard:
          > * xp (gunjan's suggestion)
          > * domain driven design (henryk's suggestion)
          > * FIT framework (also from henryk)
          >
          > --mark
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
          > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 PM
          > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
          > >
          > >
          > > A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters"
          > > group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group
          > > (specifically to meet here in NYC).
          > >
          > > I was one of those who showed interest therein.
          > >
          > > Has interest therein waned?
          > >
          > > Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the
          > > "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle? I don't recall that clearly.
          > >
          > > Larry LeFever
          >
          > ==============================================================================
          > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and
          > private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or
          > privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the
          > intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from
          > your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must
          > not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any
          > part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE
          > GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE
          > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve the
          > right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views
          > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the
          > message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the
          > views of any such entity.
          > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is
          > indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to
          > deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions
          > should be treated as preliminary only and subject to our formal written
          > confirmation.
          > ==============================================================================
          >
          >
          >
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • Marc Limotte
          Can you send out some links about the FIT Framework? I m not familiar with it. ... From: larry.lefever@verizon.net [mailto:larry.lefever@verizon.net] Sent:
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 2, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Can you send out some links about the FIT Framework?  I'm not familiar with it.
            -----Original Message-----
            From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:55 PM
            To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

            Mark,

            That FIT project actually looks quite interesting.

            I'd vote for that, instead of XP generally.

            Any suggestions for how best to stir up interest?

            Larry


            >
            > From: "Rim, Mark" <mark.rim@...>
            > Date: 2003/10/01 Wed PM 06:07:07 CDT
            > To: "'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'" <dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com>
            > CC: "'gunjan_doshi@...'" <gunjan_doshi@...>
            > Subject: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
            >
            > larry,
            >
            > gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list.
            >
            > either way, we can still get things moving.  we should gather interest and
            > then probably take the discussion off-line, between only interested parties.
            > it may or may not require a separte study group.
            >
            > xp is just one of the options for the next EGG session. here are some of the
            > topics i've heard:
            > * xp (gunjan's suggestion)
            > * domain driven design (henryk's suggestion)
            > * FIT framework (also from henryk)
            >
            > --mark
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
            > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 PM
            > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
            > >
            > >
            > > A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters"
            > > group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group
            > > (specifically to meet here in NYC).
            > >
            > > I was one of those who showed interest therein.
            > >
            > > Has interest therein waned?
            > >
            > > Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the
            > > "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle?  I don't recall that clearly.
            > >
            > > Larry LeFever
            >
            > ==============================================================================
            > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and
            > private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or
            > privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the
            > intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from
            > your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must
            > not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any
            > part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE
            > GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE
            > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve the
            > right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views
            > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the
            > message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the
            > views of any such entity.
            > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is
            > indicative  only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to
            > deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions
            > should be treated as  preliminary only and subject to our formal written
            > confirmation.
            > ==============================================================================
            >
            >
            >
            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...

            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >




            To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...


            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • gunjan_doshi@timeinc.com
            Larry and Mark: I have posted two early messages to the group and somehow did not see them posted. If this also disappears, please get it through this time. I
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 2, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Message
              Larry and Mark:
              I have posted two early messages to the group and somehow did not see them posted. If this also disappears, please get it through this time.
               
              I have worked with FIT framework. It is very easy to learn. It can be done in two sessions at most. However, Fitnesse or FIT framework alone carry little value. It is a valuable tool for one of the practices common in Agile world: acceptance tests. If we start talking about Agile software methodology, it will cover FIT and Domain Driven Design also.
               
              Also, Agile or XP is something we cannot just talk about. We have to use it in practice to learn something from it. I suggest coming up with a simple project, which will give us hands on experience.
               
              In fact, here is my suggestion:
              1. Cover the basics of Agile Software Development (1 Meeting)
              2. Pick one of the Agile methodologies and understand its core practices and values (2 Meetings)
              3. Develop the software using that methodology.(As many meetings as we want).
               
              I have done this before and it has been very successful. Please let me know. Also, we do not have to buy books for anything, I have several and can make copies and get it for everyone.
               
              Gunjan Doshi
              Senior Systems Developer
              Time Inc.
              Internet Technology Group
              Ph:   212 522 5070
              Fax: 212 522 9514
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:55 PM
              To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

              Mark,

              That FIT project actually looks quite interesting.

              I'd vote for that, instead of XP generally.

              Any suggestions for how best to stir up interest?

              Larry


              >
              > From: "Rim, Mark" <mark.rim@...>
              > Date: 2003/10/01 Wed PM 06:07:07 CDT
              > To: "'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'" <dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com>
              > CC: "'gunjan_doshi@...'" <gunjan_doshi@...>
              > Subject: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
              >
              > larry,
              >
              > gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list.
              >
              > either way, we can still get things moving.  we should gather interest and
              > then probably take the discussion off-line, between only interested parties.
              > it may or may not require a separte study group.
              >
              > xp is just one of the options for the next EGG session. here are some of the
              > topics i've heard:
              > * xp (gunjan's suggestion)
              > * domain driven design (henryk's suggestion)
              > * FIT framework (also from henryk)
              >
              > --mark
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
              > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 PM
              > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
              > >
              > >
              > > A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters"
              > > group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group
              > > (specifically to meet here in NYC).
              > >
              > > I was one of those who showed interest therein.
              > >
              > > Has interest therein waned?
              > >
              > > Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the
              > > "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle?  I don't recall that clearly.
              > >
              > > Larry LeFever
              >
              > ==============================================================================
              > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and
              > private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or
              > privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the
              > intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from
              > your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must
              > not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any
              > part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE
              > GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE
              > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve the
              > right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views
              > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the
              > message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the
              > views of any such entity.
              > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is
              > indicative  only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to
              > deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions
              > should be treated as  preliminary only and subject to our formal written
              > confirmation.
              > ==============================================================================
              >
              >
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...

              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >




              To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...


              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

              -----------------------------------------------------------------------

              This message is the property of Time Inc. or its affiliates. It may be
              legally privileged and/or confidential and is intended only for the use
              of the addressee(s). No addressee should forward, print, copy, or
              otherwise reproduce this message in any manner that would allow it to be
              viewed by any individual not originally listed as a recipient. If the
              reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
              notified that any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination, distribution,
              copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information
              herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication
              in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this message.
              Thank you.
            • gunjan_doshi@timeinc.com
              One more addition to what I said. I have started learning C# and it is a good OO language to learn. We can use that as a preferred language for our sample
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 2, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Message
                One more addition to what I said. I have started learning C# and it is a good OO language to learn. We can use that as a preferred language for our sample project. I remember Mark saying, he needed a reason to use it. We may now have a reason :)
                 
                 
                Gunjan Doshi
                Senior Systems Developer
                Time Inc.
                Internet Technology Group
                Ph:   212 522 5070
                Fax: 212 522 9514
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Doshi, Gunjan - Information Technology <gunjan_doshi@...>
                Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:10 AM
                To: 'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'
                Cc: 'larry.lefever@...'; 'mark.rim@...'
                Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                Larry and Mark:
                I have posted two early messages to the group and somehow did not see them posted. If this also disappears, please get it through this time.
                 
                I have worked with FIT framework. It is very easy to learn. It can be done in two sessions at most. However, Fitnesse or FIT framework alone carry little value. It is a valuable tool for one of the practices common in Agile world: acceptance tests. If we start talking about Agile software methodology, it will cover FIT and Domain Driven Design also.
                 
                Also, Agile or XP is something we cannot just talk about. We have to use it in practice to learn something from it. I suggest coming up with a simple project, which will give us hands on experience.
                 
                In fact, here is my suggestion:
                1. Cover the basics of Agile Software Development (1 Meeting)
                2. Pick one of the Agile methodologies and understand its core practices and values (2 Meetings)
                3. Develop the software using that methodology.(As many meetings as we want).
                 
                I have done this before and it has been very successful. Please let me know. Also, we do not have to buy books for anything, I have several and can make copies and get it for everyone.
                 
                Gunjan Doshi
                Senior Systems Developer
                Time Inc.
                Internet Technology Group
                Ph:   212 522 5070
                Fax: 212 522 9514
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:55 PM
                To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                Mark,

                That FIT project actually looks quite interesting.

                I'd vote for that, instead of XP generally.

                Any suggestions for how best to stir up interest?

                Larry


                >
                > From: "Rim, Mark" <mark.rim@...>
                > Date: 2003/10/01 Wed PM 06:07:07 CDT
                > To: "'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'" <dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com>
                > CC: "'gunjan_doshi@...'" <gunjan_doshi@...>
                > Subject: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                >
                > larry,
                >
                > gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list.
                >
                > either way, we can still get things moving.  we should gather interest and
                > then probably take the discussion off-line, between only interested parties.
                > it may or may not require a separte study group.
                >
                > xp is just one of the options for the next EGG session. here are some of the
                > topics i've heard:
                > * xp (gunjan's suggestion)
                > * domain driven design (henryk's suggestion)
                > * FIT framework (also from henryk)
                >
                > --mark
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 PM
                > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                > >
                > >
                > > A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters"
                > > group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group
                > > (specifically to meet here in NYC).
                > >
                > > I was one of those who showed interest therein.
                > >
                > > Has interest therein waned?
                > >
                > > Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the
                > > "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle?  I don't recall that clearly.
                > >
                > > Larry LeFever
                >
                > ==============================================================================
                > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and
                > private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or
                > privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the
                > intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from
                > your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must
                > not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any
                > part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE
                > GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE
                > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve the
                > right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views
                > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the
                > message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the
                > views of any such entity.
                > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is
                > indicative  only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to
                > deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions
                > should be treated as  preliminary only and subject to our formal written
                > confirmation.
                > ==============================================================================
                >
                >
                >
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...

                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >




                To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                -----------------------------------------------------------------------

                This message is the property of Time Inc. or its affiliates. It may be
                legally privileged and/or confidential and is intended only for the use
                of the addressee(s). No addressee should forward, print, copy, or
                otherwise reproduce this message in any manner that would allow it to be
                viewed by any individual not originally listed as a recipient. If the
                reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
                notified that any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination, distribution,
                copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information
                herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication
                in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this message.
                Thank you.
              • Rim, Mark
                dpsg-ers, please indicate your interest in or objection to an Agile Software Development session by emailing me directly (doing reply will send email to the
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 2, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Message
                  dpsg-ers,
                   
                  please indicate your interest in or objection to an "Agile Software Development" session by emailing me directly (doing reply will send email to the entire mailing list). i will collect the responses and summarize.
                   
                  here are some links:
                   
                  http://fit.c2.com/ - FIT framework
                   
                  http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articleIndex - has some articles on agile development and xp.
                   
                  http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/ - what is domain-driven design.
                   
                  ... a google search would find the same stuff no doubt. ...
                   
                  --mark
                   
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: gunjan_doshi@... [mailto:gunjan_doshi@...]
                  Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:14 AM
                  To: gunjan_doshi@...; dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                  Cc: larry.lefever@...; mark.rim@...
                  Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                  One more addition to what I said. I have started learning C# and it is a good OO language to learn. We can use that as a preferred language for our sample project. I remember Mark saying, he needed a reason to use it. We may now have a reason :)
                   
                   
                  Gunjan Doshi
                  Senior Systems Developer
                  Time Inc.
                  Internet Technology Group
                  Ph:   212 522 5070
                  Fax: 212 522 9514
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Doshi, Gunjan - Information Technology <gunjan_doshi@...>
                  Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:10 AM
                  To: 'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'
                  Cc: 'larry.lefever@...'; 'mark.rim@...'
                  Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                  Larry and Mark:
                  I have posted two early messages to the group and somehow did not see them posted. If this also disappears, please get it through this time.
                   
                  I have worked with FIT framework. It is very easy to learn. It can be done in two sessions at most. However, Fitnesse or FIT framework alone carry little value. It is a valuable tool for one of the practices common in Agile world: acceptance tests. If we start talking about Agile software methodology, it will cover FIT and Domain Driven Design also.
                   
                  Also, Agile or XP is something we cannot just talk about. We have to use it in practice to learn something from it. I suggest coming up with a simple project, which will give us hands on experience.
                   
                  In fact, here is my suggestion:
                  1. Cover the basics of Agile Software Development (1 Meeting)
                  2. Pick one of the Agile methodologies and understand its core practices and values (2 Meetings)
                  3. Develop the software using that methodology.(As many meetings as we want).
                   
                  I have done this before and it has been very successful. Please let me know. Also, we do not have to buy books for anything, I have several and can make copies and get it for everyone.
                   
                  Gunjan Doshi
                  Senior Systems Developer
                  Time Inc.
                  Internet Technology Group
                  Ph:   212 522 5070
                  Fax: 212 522 9514
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:55 PM
                  To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                  Mark,

                  That FIT project actually looks quite interesting.

                  I'd vote for that, instead of XP generally.

                  Any suggestions for how best to stir up interest?

                  Larry


                  >
                  > From: "Rim, Mark" <mark.rim@...>
                  > Date: 2003/10/01 Wed PM 06:07:07 CDT
                  > To: "'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'" <dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com>
                  > CC: "'gunjan_doshi@...'" <gunjan_doshi@...>
                  > Subject: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                  >
                  > larry,
                  >
                  > gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list.
                  >
                  > either way, we can still get things moving.  we should gather interest and
                  > then probably take the discussion off-line, between only interested parties.
                  > it may or may not require a separte study group.
                  >
                  > xp is just one of the options for the next EGG session. here are some of the
                  > topics i've heard:
                  > * xp (gunjan's suggestion)
                  > * domain driven design (henryk's suggestion)
                  > * FIT framework (also from henryk)
                  >
                  > --mark
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 PM
                  > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters"
                  > > group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group
                  > > (specifically to meet here in NYC).
                  > >
                  > > I was one of those who showed interest therein.
                  > >
                  > > Has interest therein waned?
                  > >
                  > > Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the
                  > > "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle?  I don't recall that clearly.
                  > >
                  > > Larry LeFever
                  >
                  > ==============================================================================
                  > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and
                  > private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or
                  > privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the
                  > intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from
                  > your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must
                  > not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any
                  > part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE
                  > GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE
                  > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve the
                  > right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views
                  > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the
                  > message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the
                  > views of any such entity.
                  > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is
                  > indicative  only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to
                  > deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions
                  > should be treated as  preliminary only and subject to our formal written
                  > confirmation.
                  > ==============================================================================
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...

                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  ADVERTISEMENT

                  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...


                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                  -----------------------------------------------------------------------

                  This message is the property of Time Inc. or its affiliates. It may be
                  legally privileged and/or confidential and is intended only for the use
                  of the addressee(s). No addressee should forward, print, copy, or
                  otherwise reproduce this message in any manner that would allow it to be
                  viewed by any individual not originally listed as a recipient. If the
                  reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
                  notified that any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination, distribution,
                  copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information
                  herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication
                  in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this message.
                  Thank you.

                  ==============================================================================
                  This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.
                  Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and subject to our formal written confirmation.
                  ==============================================================================

                • gunjan_doshi@timeinc.com
                  I think, we should have a online poll. Yahoogroups serve a very nice feature to do it. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dpsg-nyc/editsurvey. Mark, may be you
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 2, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Message
                    I think, we should have a online poll. Yahoogroups serve a very nice feature to do it.
                     
                     
                    Mark, may be you should set up a poll on it. If you want me to do it, let me know.
                    The poll should include the following:
                    1. TO use C# or Java
                    2. Pursue Agile Methodology study
                    3. Use XP as preferred methodology.
                     
                    Also, for Fit testing framework use, www.fitnesse.org. (It looks down right now).
                     For XP see:
                     
                    Wiki at C2 Ron Jeffries XP Site Extreme Programming - A gentle introduction William Wake's XP Site XP Exchange Pair Programming site xUnit Download site Industrial Logic's XP Page
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    Gunjan Doshi
                    Senior Systems Developer
                    Time Inc.
                    Internet Technology Group
                    Ph:   212 522 5070
                    Fax: 212 522 9514
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Rim, Mark [mailto:mark.rim@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:25 AM
                    To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                    Cc: larry.lefever@...; Rim, Mark; Doshi, Gunjan - Information Technology <gunjan_doshi@...>
                    Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                    dpsg-ers,
                     
                    please indicate your interest in or objection to an "Agile Software Development" session by emailing me directly (doing reply will send email to the entire mailing list). i will collect the responses and summarize.
                     
                    here are some links:
                     
                    http://fit.c2.com/ - FIT framework
                     
                    http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articleIndex - has some articles on agile development and xp.
                     
                    http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/ - what is domain-driven design.
                     
                    ... a google search would find the same stuff no doubt. ...
                     
                    --mark
                     
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: gunjan_doshi@... [mailto:gunjan_doshi@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:14 AM
                    To: gunjan_doshi@...; dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                    Cc: larry.lefever@...; mark.rim@...
                    Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                    One more addition to what I said. I have started learning C# and it is a good OO language to learn. We can use that as a preferred language for our sample project. I remember Mark saying, he needed a reason to use it. We may now have a reason :)
                     
                     
                    Gunjan Doshi
                    Senior Systems Developer
                    Time Inc.
                    Internet Technology Group
                    Ph:   212 522 5070
                    Fax: 212 522 9514
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Doshi, Gunjan - Information Technology <gunjan_doshi@...>
                    Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:10 AM
                    To: 'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'
                    Cc: 'larry.lefever@...'; 'mark.rim@...'
                    Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                    Larry and Mark:
                    I have posted two early messages to the group and somehow did not see them posted. If this also disappears, please get it through this time.
                     
                    I have worked with FIT framework. It is very easy to learn. It can be done in two sessions at most. However, Fitnesse or FIT framework alone carry little value. It is a valuable tool for one of the practices common in Agile world: acceptance tests. If we start talking about Agile software methodology, it will cover FIT and Domain Driven Design also.
                     
                    Also, Agile or XP is something we cannot just talk about. We have to use it in practice to learn something from it. I suggest coming up with a simple project, which will give us hands on experience.
                     
                    In fact, here is my suggestion:
                    1. Cover the basics of Agile Software Development (1 Meeting)
                    2. Pick one of the Agile methodologies and understand its core practices and values (2 Meetings)
                    3. Develop the software using that methodology.(As many meetings as we want).
                     
                    I have done this before and it has been very successful. Please let me know. Also, we do not have to buy books for anything, I have several and can make copies and get it for everyone.
                     
                    Gunjan Doshi
                    Senior Systems Developer
                    Time Inc.
                    Internet Technology Group
                    Ph:   212 522 5070
                    Fax: 212 522 9514
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:55 PM
                    To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                    Mark,

                    That FIT project actually looks quite interesting.

                    I'd vote for that, instead of XP generally.

                    Any suggestions for how best to stir up interest?

                    Larry


                    >
                    > From: "Rim, Mark" <mark.rim@...>
                    > Date: 2003/10/01 Wed PM 06:07:07 CDT
                    > To: "'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'" <dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com>
                    > CC: "'gunjan_doshi@...'" <gunjan_doshi@...>
                    > Subject: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                    >
                    > larry,
                    >
                    > gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list.
                    >
                    > either way, we can still get things moving.  we should gather interest and
                    > then probably take the discussion off-line, between only interested parties.
                    > it may or may not require a separte study group.
                    >
                    > xp is just one of the options for the next EGG session. here are some of the
                    > topics i've heard:
                    > * xp (gunjan's suggestion)
                    > * domain driven design (henryk's suggestion)
                    > * FIT framework (also from henryk)
                    >
                    > --mark
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                    > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 PM
                    > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters"
                    > > group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group
                    > > (specifically to meet here in NYC).
                    > >
                    > > I was one of those who showed interest therein.
                    > >
                    > > Has interest therein waned?
                    > >
                    > > Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the
                    > > "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle?  I don't recall that clearly.
                    > >
                    > > Larry LeFever
                    >
                    > ==============================================================================
                    > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and
                    > private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or
                    > privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the
                    > intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from
                    > your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must
                    > not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any
                    > part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE
                    > GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE
                    > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve the
                    > right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views
                    > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the
                    > message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the
                    > views of any such entity.
                    > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is
                    > indicative  only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to
                    > deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions
                    > should be treated as  preliminary only and subject to our formal written
                    > confirmation.
                    > ==============================================================================
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...

                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    ADVERTISEMENT

                    To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...


                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

                    This message is the property of Time Inc. or its affiliates. It may be
                    legally privileged and/or confidential and is intended only for the use
                    of the addressee(s). No addressee should forward, print, copy, or
                    otherwise reproduce this message in any manner that would allow it to be
                    viewed by any individual not originally listed as a recipient. If the
                    reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
                    notified that any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination, distribution,
                    copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information
                    herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication
                    in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this message.
                    Thank you.

                    ==============================================================================
                    This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.
                    Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and subject to our formal written confirmation.
                    ==============================================================================

                  • Gene Volovich
                    For myself, I like the idea of going through frameworks, and I don t mind picking apart some code - we ve done that in the past in the DPSG meetings. But
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 2, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      For myself, I like the idea of going through frameworks, and I don't
                      mind picking apart some code - we've done that in the past in the DPSG
                      meetings. But doing actual coding is a different kind of format for
                      meetings. I vote for finishing the Fowler book, and then having 2-3
                      meetings to analyze a particular methodology that you mentioned, and
                      possible code samples, but not for actual coding in the meetings (or in
                      preparation for meetings).

                      - Gene


                      On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 12:05 PM, gunjan_doshi@...
                      wrote:

                      > I think, we should have a online poll. Yahoogroups serve a very nice
                      > feature to do it.
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dpsg-nyc/editsurvey.
                      >  
                      >  
                      > Mark, may be you should set up a poll on it. If you want me to do it,
                      > let me know.
                      > The poll should include the following:
                      > 1. TO use C# or Java
                      > 2. Pursue Agile Methodology study
                      > 3. Use XP as preferred methodology.
                      >  
                      > Also, for Fit testing framework use, www.fitnesse.org. (It looks down
                      > right now).
                      >  For XP see:
                      >  
                      >
                      > • Wiki at C2
                      > • Ron Jeffries XP Site
                      > • Extreme Programming - A gentle introduction
                      > • William Wake's XP Site
                      > • XP Exchange
                      > • Pair Programming site
                      > • xUnit Download site
                      > • Industrial Logic's XP Page
                      >  
                      >  
                      >  
                      >  
                      > Gunjan Doshi
                      > Senior Systems Developer
                      > Time Inc.
                      > Internet Technology Group
                      > Ph:   212 522 5070
                      > Fax: 212 522 9514
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Rim, Mark [mailto:mark.rim@...]
                      > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:25 AM
                      > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                      > Cc: larry.lefever@...; Rim, Mark; Doshi, Gunjan - Information
                      > Technology <gunjan_doshi@...>
                      > Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                      >
                      > dpsg-ers,
                      >  
                      > please indicate your interest in or objection to an "Agile Software
                      > Development" session by emailing me directly (doing reply will send
                      > email to the entire mailing list). i will collect the responses and
                      > summarize.
                      >  
                      > here are some links:
                      >  
                      > http://fit.c2.com/%c2%a0- FIT framework
                      >  
                      > http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articleIndex%c2%a0- has some articles
                      > on agile development and xp.
                      >  
                      > http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/%c2%a0- what is domain-driven design.
                      >  
                      > ... a google search would find the same stuff no doubt. ...
                      >  
                      > --mark
                      >  
                      >  
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: gunjan_doshi@... [mailto:gunjan_doshi@...]
                      > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:14 AM
                      > To: gunjan_doshi@...; dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                      > Cc: larry.lefever@...; mark.rim@...
                      > Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                      >
                      > One more addition to what I said. I have started learning C# and it is
                      > a good OO language to learn. We can use that as a preferred language
                      > for our sample project. I remember Mark saying, he needed a reason to
                      > use it. We may now have a reason :)
                      >  
                      >  
                      > Gunjan Doshi
                      > Senior Systems Developer
                      > Time Inc.
                      > Internet Technology Group
                      > Ph:   212 522 5070
                      > Fax: 212 522 9514
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Doshi, Gunjan - Information Technology <gunjan_doshi@...>
                      > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:10 AM
                      > To: 'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'
                      > Cc: 'larry.lefever@...'; 'mark.rim@...'
                      > Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                      >
                      > Larry and Mark:
                      > I have posted two early messages to the group and somehow did not see
                      > them posted. If this also disappears, please get it through this time.
                      >  
                      > I have worked with FIT framework. It is very easy to learn. It can be
                      > done in two sessions at most. However, Fitnesse or FIT framework alone
                      > carry little value. It is a valuable tool for one of the practices
                      > common in Agile world: acceptance tests. If we start talking about
                      > Agile software methodology, it will cover FIT and Domain Driven Design
                      > also.
                      >  
                      > Also, Agile or XP is something we cannot just talk about. We have to
                      > use it in practice to learn something from it. I suggest coming up
                      > with a simple project, which will give us hands on experience.
                      >  
                      > In fact, here is my suggestion:
                      > 1. Cover the basics of Agile Software Development (1 Meeting)
                      > 2. Pick one of the Agile methodologies and understand its core
                      > practices and values (2 Meetings)
                      > 3. Develop the software using that methodology.(As many meetings as we
                      > want).
                      >  
                      > I have done this before and it has been very successful. Please let me
                      > know. Also, we do not have to buy books for anything, I have several
                      > and can make copies and get it for everyone.
                      >  
                      > Gunjan Doshi
                      > Senior Systems Developer
                      > Time Inc.
                      > Internet Technology Group
                      > Ph:   212 522 5070
                      > Fax: 212 522 9514
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                      > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:55 PM
                      > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                      >
                      > Mark,
                      >
                      > That FIT project actually looks quite interesting.
                      >
                      > I'd vote for that, instead of XP generally.
                      >
                      > Any suggestions for how best to stir up interest?
                      >
                      > Larry
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > From: "Rim, Mark" <mark.rim@...>
                      > > Date: 2003/10/01 Wed PM 06:07:07 CDT
                      > > To: "'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'" <dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > CC: "'gunjan_doshi@...'" <gunjan_doshi@...>
                      > > Subject: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                      > >
                      > > larry,
                      > >
                      > > gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list.
                      > >
                      > > either way, we can still get things moving.  we should gather
                      > interest and
                      > > then probably take the discussion off-line, between only interested
                      > parties.
                      > > it may or may not require a separte study group.
                      > >
                      > > xp is just one of the options for the next EGG session. here are
                      > some of the
                      > > topics i've heard:
                      > > * xp (gunjan's suggestion)
                      > > * domain driven design (henryk's suggestion)
                      > > * FIT framework (also from henryk)
                      > >
                      > > --mark
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                      > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 PM
                      > > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Subject: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters"
                      > > > group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group
                      > > > (specifically to meet here in NYC).
                      > > >
                      > > > I was one of those who showed interest therein.
                      > > >
                      > > > Has interest therein waned?
                      > > >
                      > > > Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the
                      > > > "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle?  I don't recall that
                      > clearly.
                      > > >
                      > > > Larry LeFever
                      > >
                      > >
                      > =======================================================================
                      > =======
                      > > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
                      > sensitive and
                      > > private proprietary or legally privileged information. No
                      > confidentiality or
                      > > privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not
                      > the
                      > > intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of
                      > it from
                      > > your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender.
                      > You must
                      > > not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or
                      > copy any
                      > > part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT
                      > SUISSE
                      > > GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or
                      > CREDIT SUISSE
                      > > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON
                      > reserve the
                      > > right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any
                      > views
                      > > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except
                      > where the
                      > > message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them
                      > to be the
                      > > views of any such entity.
                      > > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this
                      > message is
                      > > indicative  only, is subject to change and does not constitute an
                      > offer to
                      > > deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed
                      > transactions
                      > > should be treated as  preliminary only and subject to our formal
                      > written
                      > > confirmation.
                      > >
                      > =======================================================================
                      > =======
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                      > > 
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      <image.tiff>
                      >
                      >
                      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      >
                      >
                      > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      > This message is the property of Time Inc. or its affiliates. It may be
                      > legally privileged and/or confidential and is intended only for the use
                      > of the addressee(s). No addressee should forward, print, copy, or
                      > otherwise reproduce this message in any manner that would allow it to
                      > be
                      > viewed by any individual not originally listed as a recipient. If the
                      > reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
                      > notified that any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination, distribution,
                      > copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information
                      > herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication
                      > in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this message.
                      > Thank you.
                      >
                      > =======================================================================
                      > =======
                      > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
                      > sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information.
                      > No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any
                      > mistransmission. If you are not the intended recipient, please
                      > immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy
                      > any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or
                      > indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this
                      > message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE GROUP and
                      > each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE
                      > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve
                      > the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
                      > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
                      > sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is
                      > authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.
                      > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message
                      > is indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an
                      > offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of
                      > executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and
                      > subject to our formal written confirmation.
                      > =======================================================================
                      > =======
                      >
                      >
                      <image.tiff>
                      >
                      >
                      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      >
                    • gunjan_doshi@timeinc.com
                      I think I was vague when I mentioned a sample project with hands on experience. The project will be a helping tool to guide us through all the practices of
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 2, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Message
                        I think I was vague when I mentioned a sample project with hands on experience. The project will be a helping tool to guide us through all the practices of methodology. There will be little coding involved. The participants are then free to go and practice it on their own.
                         
                        At the same time, I want to make sure that
                         - There is sufficient interest to do this
                         - We do not go against Objective of DPSG meetings.
                         
                        Gunjan Doshi
                        Senior Systems Developer
                        Time Inc.
                        Internet Technology Group
                        Ph:   212 522 5070
                        Fax: 212 522 9514
                         
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Gene Volovich [mailto:gene@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 1:53 PM
                        To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                        For myself, I like the idea of going through frameworks, and I don't mind picking apart some code - we've done that in the past in the DPSG meetings. But doing actual coding is a different kind of format for meetings. I vote for finishing the Fowler book, and then having 2-3 meetings to analyze a particular methodology that you mentioned, and possible code samples, but not for actual coding in the meetings (or in preparation for meetings).

                        - Gene


                        On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 12:05 PM, gunjan_doshi@... wrote:

                        I think, we should have a online poll. Yahoogroups serve a very nice feature to do it.
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dpsg-nyc/editsurvey.
                        Mark, may be you should set up a poll on it. If you want me to do it, let me know.
                        The poll should include the following:
                        1. TO use C# or Java
                        2. Pursue Agile Methodology study
                        3. Use XP as preferred methodology.
                        Also, for Fit testing framework use, www.fitnesse.org. (It looks down right now).
                         For XP see:

                        Wiki at C2
                        Ron Jeffries XP Site
                        Extreme Programming - A gentle introduction
                        William Wake's XP Site
                        XP Exchange
                        Pair Programming site
                        xUnit Download site
                        Industrial Logic's XP Page
                        Gunjan Doshi
                        Senior Systems Developer
                        Time Inc.
                        Internet Technology Group
                        Ph:   212 522 5070
                        Fax: 212 522 9514


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Rim, Mark [mailto:mark.rim@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:25 AM
                        To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                        Cc: larry.lefever@...; Rim, Mark; Doshi, Gunjan - Information Technology <gunjan_doshi@...>
                        Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                        dpsg-ers,
                        please indicate your interest in or objection to an "Agile Software Development" session by emailing me directly (doing reply will send email to the entire mailing list). i will collect the responses and summarize.
                        here are some links:
                        http://fit.c2.com/ - FIT framework
                        http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articleIndex - has some articles on agile development and xp.
                        http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/ - what is domain-driven design.
                        ... a google search would find the same stuff no doubt. ...
                        --mark

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: gunjan_doshi@... [mailto:gunjan_doshi@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:14 AM
                        To: gunjan_doshi@...; dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                        Cc: larry.lefever@...; mark.rim@...
                        Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                        One more addition to what I said. I have started learning C# and it is a good OO language to learn. We can use that as a preferred language for our sample project. I remember Mark saying, he needed a reason to use it. We may now have a reason :)
                        Gunjan Doshi
                        Senior Systems Developer
                        Time Inc.
                        Internet Technology Group
                        Ph:   212 522 5070
                        Fax: 212 522 9514


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Doshi, Gunjan - Information Technology <gunjan_doshi@...>
                        Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:10 AM
                        To: 'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'
                        Cc: 'larry.lefever@...'; 'mark.rim@...'
                        Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                        Larry and Mark:
                        I have posted two early messages to the group and somehow did not see them posted. If this also disappears, please get it through this time.
                        I have worked with FIT framework. It is very easy to learn. It can be done in two sessions at most. However, Fitnesse or FIT framework alone carry little value. It is a valuable tool for one of the practices common in Agile world: acceptance tests. If we start talking about Agile software methodology, it will cover FIT and Domain Driven Design also.
                        Also, Agile or XP is something we cannot just talk about. We have to use it in practice to learn something from it. I suggest coming up with a simple project, which will give us hands on experience.
                        In fact, here is my suggestion:
                        1. Cover the basics of Agile Software Development (1 Meeting)
                        2. Pick one of the Agile methodologies and understand its core practices and values (2 Meetings)
                        3. Develop the software using that methodology.(As many meetings as we want).
                        I have done this before and it has been very successful. Please let me know. Also, we do not have to buy books for anything, I have several and can make copies and get it for everyone.
                        Gunjan Doshi
                        Senior Systems Developer
                        Time Inc.
                        Internet Technology Group
                        Ph:   212 522 5070
                        Fax: 212 522 9514


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                        Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:55 PM
                        To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?

                        Mark,

                        That FIT project actually looks quite interesting.

                        I'd vote for that, instead of XP generally.

                        Any suggestions for how best to stir up interest?

                        Larry


                        >
                        > From: "Rim, Mark" <mark.rim@...>
                        > Date: 2003/10/01 Wed PM 06:07:07 CDT
                        > To: "'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'" <dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com>
                        > CC: "'gunjan_doshi@...'" <gunjan_doshi@...>
                        > Subject: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                        >
                        > larry,
                        >
                        > gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list.
                        >
                        > either way, we can still get things moving.  we should gather interest and
                        > then probably take the discussion off-line, between only interested parties.
                        > it may or may not require a separte study group.
                        >
                        > xp is just one of the options for the next EGG session. here are some of the
                        > topics i've heard:
                        > * xp (gunjan's suggestion)
                        > * domain driven design (henryk's suggestion)
                        > * FIT framework (also from henryk)
                        >
                        > --mark
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                        > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 PM
                        > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters"
                        > > group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group
                        > > (specifically to meet here in NYC).
                        > >
                        > > I was one of those who showed interest therein.
                        > >
                        > > Has interest therein waned?
                        > >
                        > > Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the
                        > > "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle?  I don't recall that clearly.
                        > >
                        > > Larry LeFever
                        >
                        > ==============================================================================
                        > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and
                        > private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or
                        > privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the
                        > intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from
                        > your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must
                        > not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any
                        > part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE
                        > GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE
                        > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve the
                        > right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views
                        > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the
                        > message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the
                        > views of any such entity.
                        > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is
                        > indicative  only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to
                        > deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions
                        > should be treated as  preliminary only and subject to our formal written
                        > confirmation.
                        > ==============================================================================
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        <image.tiff>


                        To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...


                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                        -----------------------------------------------------------------------

                        This message is the property of Time Inc. or its affiliates. It may be
                        legally privileged and/or confidential and is intended only for the use
                        of the addressee(s). No addressee should forward, print, copy, or
                        otherwise reproduce this message in any manner that would allow it to be
                        viewed by any individual not originally listed as a recipient. If the
                        reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
                        notified that any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination, distribution,
                        copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information
                        herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication
                        in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this message.
                        Thank you.

                        ==============================================================================
                        This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.
                        Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and subject to our formal written confirmation.
                        ==============================================================================


                        <image.tiff>


                        To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...


                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                      • Gene Volovich
                        Maybe we could have a short discussion about these things at our next mtg? On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 02:10 PM, gunjan_doshi@timeinc.com ...
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 2, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Maybe we could have a short discussion about these things at our next
                          mtg?

                          On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 02:10 PM, gunjan_doshi@...
                          wrote:

                          > I think I was vague when I mentioned a sample project with hands on
                          > experience. The project will be a helping tool to guide us through all
                          > the practices of methodology. There will be little coding involved.
                          > The participants are then free to go and practice it on their own.
                          >  
                          > At the same time, I want to make sure that
                          >  - There is sufficient interest to do this
                          >  - We do not go against Objective of DPSG meetings.
                          >  
                          > Gunjan Doshi
                          > Senior Systems Developer
                          > Time Inc.
                          > Internet Technology Group
                          > Ph:   212 522 5070
                          > Fax: 212 522 9514
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Gene Volovich [mailto:gene@...]
                          > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 1:53 PM
                          > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                          >
                          > For myself, I like the idea of going through frameworks, and I don't
                          > mind picking apart some code - we've done that in the past in the DPSG
                          > meetings. But doing actual coding is a different kind of format for
                          > meetings. I vote for finishing the Fowler book, and then having 2-3
                          > meetings to analyze a particular methodology that you mentioned, and
                          > possible code samples, but not for actual coding in the meetings (or
                          > in preparation for meetings).
                          >
                          > - Gene
                          >
                          >
                          > On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 12:05 PM, gunjan_doshi@...
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          > I think, we should have a online poll. Yahoogroups serve a very nice
                          > feature to do it.
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dpsg-nyc/editsurvey.
                          >
                          >
                          > Mark, may be you should set up a poll on it. If you want me to do it,
                          > let me know.
                          > The poll should include the following:
                          > 1. TO use C# or Java
                          > 2. Pursue Agile Methodology study
                          > 3. Use XP as preferred methodology.
                          >
                          > Also, for Fit testing framework use, www.fitnesse.org. (It looks down
                          > right now).
                          >  For XP see:
                          >
                          >
                          > • Wiki at C2
                          > • Ron Jeffries XP Site
                          > • Extreme Programming - A gentle introduction
                          > • William Wake's XP Site
                          > • XP Exchange
                          > • Pair Programming site
                          > • xUnit Download site
                          > • Industrial Logic's XP Page
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Gunjan Doshi
                          > Senior Systems Developer
                          > Time Inc.
                          > Internet Technology Group
                          > Ph:   212 522 5070
                          > Fax: 212 522 9514
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Rim, Mark [mailto:mark.rim@...]
                          > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:25 AM
                          > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                          > Cc: larry.lefever@...; Rim, Mark; Doshi, Gunjan - Information
                          > Technology <gunjan_doshi@...>
                          > Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                          >
                          > dpsg-ers,
                          >
                          > please indicate your interest in or objection to an "Agile Software
                          > Development" session by emailing me directly (doing reply will send
                          > email to the entire mailing list). i will collect the responses and
                          > summarize.
                          >
                          > here are some links:
                          >
                          > http://fit.c2.com/%c2%a0- FIT framework
                          >
                          > http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articleIndex%c2%a0- has some articles
                          > on agile development and xp.
                          >
                          > http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/%c2%a0- what is domain-driven design.
                          >
                          > ... a google search would find the same stuff no doubt. ...
                          >
                          > --mark
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: gunjan_doshi@... [mailto:gunjan_doshi@...]
                          > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:14 AM
                          > To: gunjan_doshi@...; dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                          > Cc: larry.lefever@...; mark.rim@...
                          > Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                          >
                          > One more addition to what I said. I have started learning C# and it is
                          > a good OO language to learn. We can use that as a preferred language
                          > for our sample project. I remember Mark saying, he needed a reason to
                          > use it. We may now have a reason :)
                          >
                          >
                          > Gunjan Doshi
                          > Senior Systems Developer
                          > Time Inc.
                          > Internet Technology Group
                          > Ph:   212 522 5070
                          > Fax: 212 522 9514
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Doshi, Gunjan - Information Technology <gunjan_doshi@...>
                          > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:10 AM
                          > To: 'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'
                          > Cc: 'larry.lefever@...'; 'mark.rim@...'
                          > Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                          >
                          > Larry and Mark:
                          > I have posted two early messages to the group and somehow did not see
                          > them posted. If this also disappears, please get it through this time.
                          >
                          > I have worked with FIT framework. It is very easy to learn. It can be
                          > done in two sessions at most. However, Fitnesse or FIT framework alone
                          > carry little value. It is a valuable tool for one of the practices
                          > common in Agile world: acceptance tests. If we start talking about
                          > Agile software methodology, it will cover FIT and Domain Driven Design
                          > also.
                          >
                          > Also, Agile or XP is something we cannot just talk about. We have to
                          > use it in practice to learn something from it. I suggest coming up
                          > with a simple project, which will give us hands on experience.
                          >
                          > In fact, here is my suggestion:
                          > 1. Cover the basics of Agile Software Development (1 Meeting)
                          > 2. Pick one of the Agile methodologies and understand its core
                          > practices and values (2 Meetings)
                          > 3. Develop the software using that methodology.(As many meetings as we
                          > want).
                          >
                          > I have done this before and it has been very successful. Please let me
                          > know. Also, we do not have to buy books for anything, I have several
                          > and can make copies and get it for everyone.
                          >
                          > Gunjan Doshi
                          > Senior Systems Developer
                          > Time Inc.
                          > Internet Technology Group
                          > Ph:   212 522 5070
                          > Fax: 212 522 9514
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                          > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:55 PM
                          > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                          >
                          > Mark,
                          >
                          > That FIT project actually looks quite interesting.
                          >
                          > I'd vote for that, instead of XP generally.
                          >
                          > Any suggestions for how best to stir up interest?
                          >
                          > Larry
                          >
                          >
                          > >
                          > > From: "Rim, Mark" <mark.rim@...>
                          > > Date: 2003/10/01 Wed PM 06:07:07 CDT
                          > > To: "'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'" <dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > CC: "'gunjan_doshi@...'" <gunjan_doshi@...>
                          > > Subject: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                          > >
                          > > larry,
                          > >
                          > > gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list.
                          > >
                          > > either way, we can still get things moving.  we should gather
                          > interest and
                          > > then probably take the discussion off-line, between only interested
                          > parties.
                          > > it may or may not require a separte study group.
                          > >
                          > > xp is just one of the options for the next EGG session. here are
                          > some of the
                          > > topics i've heard:
                          > > * xp (gunjan's suggestion)
                          > > * domain driven design (henryk's suggestion)
                          > > * FIT framework (also from henryk)
                          > >
                          > > --mark
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                          > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 PM
                          > > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Subject: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters"
                          > > > group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group
                          > > > (specifically to meet here in NYC).
                          > > >
                          > > > I was one of those who showed interest therein.
                          > > >
                          > > > Has interest therein waned?
                          > > >
                          > > > Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the
                          > > > "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle?  I don't recall that
                          > clearly.
                          > > >
                          > > > Larry LeFever
                          > >
                          > >
                          > =======================================================================
                          > =======
                          > > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
                          > sensitive and
                          > > private proprietary or legally privileged information. No
                          > confidentiality or
                          > > privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not
                          > the
                          > > intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of
                          > it from
                          > > your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender.
                          > You must
                          > > not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or
                          > copy any
                          > > part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT
                          > SUISSE
                          > > GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or
                          > CREDIT SUISSE
                          > > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON
                          > reserve the
                          > > right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any
                          > views
                          > > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except
                          > where the
                          > > message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them
                          > to be the
                          > > views of any such entity.
                          > > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this
                          > message is
                          > > indicative  only, is subject to change and does not constitute an
                          > offer to
                          > > deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed
                          > transactions
                          > > should be treated as  preliminary only and subject to our formal
                          > written
                          > > confirmation.
                          > >
                          > =======================================================================
                          > =======
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                          > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                          > > 
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > <image.tiff>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                          > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                          >
                          >
                          > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >
                          > This message is the property of Time Inc. or its affiliates. It may be
                          > legally privileged and/or confidential and is intended only for the use
                          > of the addressee(s). No addressee should forward, print, copy, or
                          > otherwise reproduce this message in any manner that would allow it to
                          > be
                          > viewed by any individual not originally listed as a recipient. If the
                          > reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
                          > notified that any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination, distribution,
                          > copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information
                          > herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication
                          > in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this message.
                          > Thank you.
                          >
                          > =======================================================================
                          > =======
                          > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
                          > sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information.
                          > No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any
                          > mistransmission. If you are not the intended recipient, please
                          > immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy
                          > any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or
                          > indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this
                          > message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE GROUP and
                          > each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE
                          > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve
                          > the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
                          > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
                          > sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is
                          > authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.
                          > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message
                          > is indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an
                          > offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of
                          > executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and
                          > subject to our formal written confirmation.
                          > =======================================================================
                          > =======
                          >
                          >
                          > <image.tiff>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                          > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                          >
                          >
                          <image.tiff>
                          >
                          >
                          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                          > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        • larry.lefever@verizon.net
                          I wanted to raise the issue of XP, etc., largely because Gunjan had proposed, a few weeks ago, working with it, in some way, in the near(?) future, whether as
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 2, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I wanted to raise the issue of XP, etc., largely because Gunjan had proposed, a few weeks ago, working with it, in some way, in the near(?) future, whether as a continuation of Enterprise Gangsters or otherwise.

                            RE: FIT, before it had been mentioned on this list, I hadn't been familiar with it. My brief web-search for it turned up also the more general notion of automated webapp-testing (as opposed to unit-testing, that is), e.g., HTTPUnit or the like. I have little experience with such testing techniques.

                            I have the time for a project-oriented treatment of XP, etc. Indeed, at the last NYJavaSIG, I asked about such a project. About a year ago, a group of NYJavaSIGers who were looking for work got together to work on the "PetShop" example. As far as I know, they did not, however, use XP for it.

                            RE: C#, I've been very focused on Java for the past few years, but getting some experience with C# would no doubt be good for my resume. I'd just need to get myself set up for .Net at home, to be able to work with it.

                            So, all in all, I'm pretty flexible as regards the topics recently cited on this list. I'm also flexible as regards whether or not to do some coding for such a project and whether or not to do it with C# (provided it wouldn't cost me too much to get set up with .Net).

                            Larry


                            >
                            > From: Gene Volovich <gene@...>
                            > Date: 2003/10/02 Thu PM 03:12:19 CDT
                            > To: gunjan_doshi@...
                            > CC: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                            >
                            > Maybe we could have a short discussion about these things at our next
                            > mtg?
                            >
                            > On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 02:10 PM, gunjan_doshi@...
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            > > I think I was vague when I mentioned a sample project with hands on
                            > > experience. The project will be a helping tool to guide us through all
                            > > the practices of methodology. There will be little coding involved.
                            > > The participants are then free to go and practice it on their own.
                            > >
                            > > At the same time, I want to make sure that
                            > > - There is sufficient interest to do this
                            > > - We do not go against Objective of DPSG meetings.
                            > >
                            > > Gunjan Doshi
                            > > Senior Systems Developer
                            > > Time Inc.
                            > > Internet Technology Group
                            > > Ph: 212 522 5070
                            > > Fax: 212 522 9514
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: Gene Volovich [mailto:gene@...]
                            > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 1:53 PM
                            > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: Re: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                            > >
                            > > For myself, I like the idea of going through frameworks, and I don't
                            > > mind picking apart some code - we've done that in the past in the DPSG
                            > > meetings. But doing actual coding is a different kind of format for
                            > > meetings. I vote for finishing the Fowler book, and then having 2-3
                            > > meetings to analyze a particular methodology that you mentioned, and
                            > > possible code samples, but not for actual coding in the meetings (or
                            > > in preparation for meetings).
                            > >
                            > > - Gene
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 12:05 PM, gunjan_doshi@...
                            > > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I think, we should have a online poll. Yahoogroups serve a very nice
                            > > feature to do it.
                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dpsg-nyc/editsurvey.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Mark, may be you should set up a poll on it. If you want me to do it,
                            > > let me know.
                            > > The poll should include the following:
                            > > 1. TO use C# or Java
                            > > 2. Pursue Agile Methodology study
                            > > 3. Use XP as preferred methodology.
                            > >
                            > > Also, for Fit testing framework use, www.fitnesse.org. (It looks down
                            > > right now).
                            > > For XP see:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ? Wiki at C2
                            > > ? Ron Jeffries XP Site
                            > > ? Extreme Programming - A gentle introduction
                            > > ? William Wake's XP Site
                            > > ? XP Exchange
                            > > ? Pair Programming site
                            > > ? xUnit Download site
                            > > ? Industrial Logic's XP Page
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Gunjan Doshi
                            > > Senior Systems Developer
                            > > Time Inc.
                            > > Internet Technology Group
                            > > Ph: 212 522 5070
                            > > Fax: 212 522 9514
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: Rim, Mark [mailto:mark.rim@...]
                            > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:25 AM
                            > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Cc: larry.lefever@...; Rim, Mark; Doshi, Gunjan - Information
                            > > Technology <gunjan_doshi@...>
                            > > Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                            > >
                            > > dpsg-ers,
                            > >
                            > > please indicate your interest in or objection to an "Agile Software
                            > > Development" session by emailing me directly (doing reply will send
                            > > email to the entire mailing list). i will collect the responses and
                            > > summarize.
                            > >
                            > > here are some links:
                            > >
                            > > http://fit.c2.com/ - FIT framework
                            > >
                            > > http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articleIndex - has some articles
                            > > on agile development and xp.
                            > >
                            > > http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/ - what is domain-driven design.
                            > >
                            > > ... a google search would find the same stuff no doubt. ...
                            > >
                            > > --mark
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: gunjan_doshi@... [mailto:gunjan_doshi@...]
                            > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:14 AM
                            > > To: gunjan_doshi@...; dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Cc: larry.lefever@...; mark.rim@...
                            > > Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                            > >
                            > > One more addition to what I said. I have started learning C# and it is
                            > > a good OO language to learn. We can use that as a preferred language
                            > > for our sample project. I remember Mark saying, he needed a reason to
                            > > use it. We may now have a reason :)
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Gunjan Doshi
                            > > Senior Systems Developer
                            > > Time Inc.
                            > > Internet Technology Group
                            > > Ph: 212 522 5070
                            > > Fax: 212 522 9514
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: Doshi, Gunjan - Information Technology <gunjan_doshi@...>
                            > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:10 AM
                            > > To: 'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'
                            > > Cc: 'larry.lefever@...'; 'mark.rim@...'
                            > > Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                            > >
                            > > Larry and Mark:
                            > > I have posted two early messages to the group and somehow did not see
                            > > them posted. If this also disappears, please get it through this time.
                            > >
                            > > I have worked with FIT framework. It is very easy to learn. It can be
                            > > done in two sessions at most. However, Fitnesse or FIT framework alone
                            > > carry little value. It is a valuable tool for one of the practices
                            > > common in Agile world: acceptance tests. If we start talking about
                            > > Agile software methodology, it will cover FIT and Domain Driven Design
                            > > also.
                            > >
                            > > Also, Agile or XP is something we cannot just talk about. We have to
                            > > use it in practice to learn something from it. I suggest coming up
                            > > with a simple project, which will give us hands on experience.
                            > >
                            > > In fact, here is my suggestion:
                            > > 1. Cover the basics of Agile Software Development (1 Meeting)
                            > > 2. Pick one of the Agile methodologies and understand its core
                            > > practices and values (2 Meetings)
                            > > 3. Develop the software using that methodology.(As many meetings as we
                            > > want).
                            > >
                            > > I have done this before and it has been very successful. Please let me
                            > > know. Also, we do not have to buy books for anything, I have several
                            > > and can make copies and get it for everyone.
                            > >
                            > > Gunjan Doshi
                            > > Senior Systems Developer
                            > > Time Inc.
                            > > Internet Technology Group
                            > > Ph: 212 522 5070
                            > > Fax: 212 522 9514
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                            > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:55 PM
                            > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: Re: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                            > >
                            > > Mark,
                            > >
                            > > That FIT project actually looks quite interesting.
                            > >
                            > > I'd vote for that, instead of XP generally.
                            > >
                            > > Any suggestions for how best to stir up interest?
                            > >
                            > > Larry
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > > > From: "Rim, Mark" <mark.rim@...>
                            > > > Date: 2003/10/01 Wed PM 06:07:07 CDT
                            > > > To: "'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'" <dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > CC: "'gunjan_doshi@...'" <gunjan_doshi@...>
                            > > > Subject: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                            > > >
                            > > > larry,
                            > > >
                            > > > gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list.
                            > > >
                            > > > either way, we can still get things moving. we should gather
                            > > interest and
                            > > > then probably take the discussion off-line, between only interested
                            > > parties.
                            > > > it may or may not require a separte study group.
                            > > >
                            > > > xp is just one of the options for the next EGG session. here are
                            > > some of the
                            > > > topics i've heard:
                            > > > * xp (gunjan's suggestion)
                            > > > * domain driven design (henryk's suggestion)
                            > > > * FIT framework (also from henryk)
                            > > >
                            > > > --mark
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                            > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 PM
                            > > > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > Subject: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters"
                            > > > > group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group
                            > > > > (specifically to meet here in NYC).
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I was one of those who showed interest therein.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Has interest therein waned?
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the
                            > > > > "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle? I don't recall that
                            > > clearly.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Larry LeFever
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > =======================================================================
                            > > =======
                            > > > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
                            > > sensitive and
                            > > > private proprietary or legally privileged information. No
                            > > confidentiality or
                            > > > privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not
                            > > the
                            > > > intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of
                            > > it from
                            > > > your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender.
                            > > You must
                            > > > not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or
                            > > copy any
                            > > > part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT
                            > > SUISSE
                            > > > GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or
                            > > CREDIT SUISSE
                            > > > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON
                            > > reserve the
                            > > > right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any
                            > > views
                            > > > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except
                            > > where the
                            > > > message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them
                            > > to be the
                            > > > views of any such entity.
                            > > > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this
                            > > message is
                            > > > indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an
                            > > offer to
                            > > > deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed
                            > > transactions
                            > > > should be treated as preliminary only and subject to our formal
                            > > written
                            > > > confirmation.
                            > > >
                            > > =======================================================================
                            > > =======
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                            > > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > <image.tiff>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                            > > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > This message is the property of Time Inc. or its affiliates. It may be
                            > > legally privileged and/or confidential and is intended only for the use
                            > > of the addressee(s). No addressee should forward, print, copy, or
                            > > otherwise reproduce this message in any manner that would allow it to
                            > > be
                            > > viewed by any individual not originally listed as a recipient. If the
                            > > reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
                            > > notified that any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination, distribution,
                            > > copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information
                            > > herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication
                            > > in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this message.
                            > > Thank you.
                            > >
                            > > =======================================================================
                            > > =======
                            > > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
                            > > sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information.
                            > > No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any
                            > > mistransmission. If you are not the intended recipient, please
                            > > immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy
                            > > any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or
                            > > indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this
                            > > message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE GROUP and
                            > > each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE
                            > > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve
                            > > the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
                            > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
                            > > sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is
                            > > authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.
                            > > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message
                            > > is indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an
                            > > offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of
                            > > executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and
                            > > subject to our formal written confirmation.
                            > > =======================================================================
                            > > =======
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > <image.tiff>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                            > > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > <image.tiff>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                            > > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            >
                          • henryk mozman
                            I agree. Our format is not right for actual coding. Henryk Gene Volovich wrote: For myself, I like the idea of going through frameworks,
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 2, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I agree.
                               
                              Our format is not right for actual coding.
                               
                              Henryk
                               

                              Gene Volovich <gene@...> wrote:
                              For myself, I like the idea of going through frameworks, and I don't
                              mind picking apart some code - we've done that in the past in the DPSG
                              meetings. But doing actual coding is a different kind of format for
                              meetings. I vote for finishing the Fowler book, and then having 2-3
                              meetings to analyze a particular methodology that you mentioned, and
                              possible code samples, but not for actual coding in the meetings (or in
                              preparation for meetings).

                              - Gene


                              On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 12:05 PM, gunjan_doshi@...
                              wrote:

                              > I think, we should have a online poll. Yahoogroups serve a very nice
                              > feature to do it.
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dpsg-nyc/editsurvey.
                              >  
                              >  
                              > Mark, may be you should set up a poll on it. If you want me to do it,
                              > let me know.
                              > The poll should include the following:
                              > 1. TO use C# or Java
                              > 2. Pursue Agile Methodology study
                              > 3. Use XP as preferred methodology.
                              >  
                              > Also, for Fit testing framework use, www.fitnesse.org. (It looks down
                              > right now).
                              >  For XP see:
                              >  
                              >
                              > � Wiki at C2
                              > � Ron Jeffries XP Site
                              > � Extreme Programming - A gentle introduction
                              > � William Wake's XP Site
                              > � XP Exchange
                              > � Pair Programming site
                              > � xUnit Download site
                              > � Industrial Logic's XP Page
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              > Gunjan Doshi
                              > Senior Systems Developer
                              > Time Inc.
                              > Internet Technology Group
                              > Ph:   212 522 5070
                              > Fax: 212 522 9514
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Rim, Mark [mailto:mark.rim@...]
                              > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:25 AM
                              > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                              > Cc: larry.lefever@...; Rim, Mark; Doshi, Gunjan - Information
                              > Technology
                              > Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                              >
                              > dpsg-ers,
                              >  
                              > please indicate your interest in or objection to an "Agile Software
                              > Development" session by emailing me directly (doing reply will send
                              > email to the entire mailing list). i will collect the responses and
                              > summarize.
                              >  
                              > here are some links:
                              >  
                              > http://fit.c2.com/ - FIT framework
                              >  
                              > http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articleIndex - has some articles
                              > on agile development and xp.
                              >  
                              > http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/ - what is domain-driven design.
                              >  
                              > ... a google search would find the same stuff no doubt. ...
                              >  
                              > --mark
                              >  
                              >  
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: gunjan_doshi@... [mailto:gunjan_doshi@...]
                              > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:14 AM
                              > To: gunjan_doshi@...; dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                              > Cc: larry.lefever@...; mark.rim@...
                              > Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                              >
                              > One more addition to what I said. I have started learning C# and it is
                              > a good OO language to learn. We can use that as a preferred language
                              > for our sample project. I remember Mark saying, he needed a reason to
                              > use it. We may now have a reason :)
                              >  
                              >  
                              > Gunjan Doshi
                              > Senior Systems Developer
                              > Time Inc.
                              > Internet Technology Group
                              > Ph:   212 522 5070
                              > Fax: 212 522 9514
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Doshi, Gunjan - Information Technology
                              > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:10 AM
                              > To: 'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'
                              > Cc: 'larry.lefever@...'; 'mark.rim@...'
                              > Subject: RE: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                              >
                              > Larry and Mark:
                              > I have posted two early messages to the group and somehow did not see
                              > them posted. If this also disappears, please get it through this time.
                              >  
                              > I have worked with FIT framework. It is very easy to learn. It can be
                              > done in two sessions at most. However, Fitnesse or FIT framework alone
                              > carry little value. It is a valuable tool for one of the practices
                              > common in Agile world: acceptance tests. If we start talking about
                              > Agile software methodology, it will cover FIT and Domain Driven Design
                              > also.
                              >  
                              > Also, Agile or XP is something we cannot just talk about. We have to
                              > use it in practice to learn something from it. I suggest coming up
                              > with a simple project, which will give us hands on experience.
                              >  
                              > In fact, here is my suggestion:
                              > 1. Cover the basics of Agile Software Development (1 Meeting)
                              > 2. Pick one of the Agile methodologies and understand its core
                              > practices and values (2 Meetings)
                              > 3. Develop the software using that methodology.(As many meetings as we
                              > want).
                              >  
                              > I have done this before and it has been very successful. Please let me
                              > know. Also, we do not have to buy books for anything, I have several
                              > and can make copies and get it for everyone.
                              >  
                              > Gunjan Doshi
                              > Senior Systems Developer
                              > Time Inc.
                              > Internet Technology Group
                              > Ph:   212 522 5070
                              > Fax: 212 522 9514
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                              > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:55 PM
                              > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                              >
                              > Mark,
                              >
                              > That FIT project actually looks quite interesting.
                              >
                              > I'd vote for that, instead of XP generally.
                              >
                              > Any suggestions for how best to stir up interest?
                              >
                              > Larry
                              >
                              >
                              > >
                              > > From: "Rim, Mark"
                              > > Date: 2003/10/01 Wed PM 06:07:07 CDT
                              > > To: "'dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com'"
                              > > CC: "'gunjan_doshi@...'"
                              > > Subject: RE: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                              > >
                              > > larry,
                              > >
                              > > gunjan did mention having trouble posting to the mailing list.
                              > >
                              > > either way, we can still get things moving.  we should gather
                              > interest and
                              > > then probably take the discussion off-line, between only interested
                              > parties.
                              > > it may or may not require a separte study group.
                              > >
                              > > xp is just one of the options for the next EGG session. here are
                              > some of the
                              > > topics i've heard:
                              > > * xp (gunjan's suggestion)
                              > > * domain driven design (henryk's suggestion)
                              > > * FIT framework (also from henryk)
                              > >
                              > > --mark
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > > From: larry.lefever@... [mailto:larry.lefever@...]
                              > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:31 PM
                              > > > To: dpsg-nyc@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Subject: [dpsg-nyc] what's new re: XP-group?
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > A few weeks ago, Gunjan, in the "Engineering Gangsters"
                              > > > group, took an informal poll of interest in an XP Group
                              > > > (specifically to meet here in NYC).
                              > > >
                              > > > I was one of those who showed interest therein.
                              > > >
                              > > > Has interest therein waned?
                              > > >
                              > > > Or was to idea to start it up only after the end of the
                              > > > "Engineering Gangsters" current cycle?  I don't recall that
                              > clearly.
                              > > >
                              > > > Larry LeFever
                              > >
                              > >
                              > =======================================================================
                              > =======
                              > > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
                              > sensitive and
                              > > private proprietary or legally privileged information. No
                              > confidentiality or
                              > > privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not
                              > the
                              > > intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of
                              > it from
                              > > your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender.
                              > You must
                              > > not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or
                              > copy any
                              > > part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT
                              > SUISSE
                              > > GROUP and each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or
                              > CREDIT SUISSE
                              > > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON
                              > reserve the
                              > > right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any
                              > views
                              > > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except
                              > where the
                              > > message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them
                              > to be the
                              > > views of any such entity.
                              > > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this
                              > message is
                              > > indicative  only, is subject to change and does not constitute an
                              > offer to
                              > > deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed
                              > transactions
                              > > should be treated as  preliminary only and subject to our formal
                              > written
                              > > confirmation.
                              > >
                              > =======================================================================
                              > =======
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                              > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                              > > 
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              >
                              >
                              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                              > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                              >
                              >
                              > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >
                              > This message is the property of Time Inc. or its affiliates. It may be
                              > legally privileged and/or confidential and is intended only for the use
                              > of the addressee(s). No addressee should forward, print, copy, or
                              > otherwise reproduce this message in any manner that would allow it to
                              > be
                              > viewed by any individual not originally listed as a recipient. If the
                              > reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
                              > notified that any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination, distribution,
                              > copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information
                              > herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication
                              > in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this message.
                              > Thank you.
                              >
                              > =======================================================================
                              > =======
                              > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
                              > sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information.
                              > No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any
                              > mistransmission. If you are not the intended recipient, please
                              > immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy
                              > any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or
                              > indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this
                              > message if you are not the intended recipient. CREDIT SUISSE GROUP and
                              > each legal entity in the CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON or CREDIT SUISSE
                              > ASSET MANAGEMENT business units of CREDIT SUISSE FIRST BOSTON reserve
                              > the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
                              > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
                              > sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is
                              > authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.
                              > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message
                              > is indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an
                              > offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of
                              > executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and
                              > subject to our formal written confirmation.
                              > =======================================================================
                              > =======
                              >
                              >

                              >
                              >
                              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                              > dpsg-nyc-unsubscribe@...
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                              >


                              Do you Yahoo!?
                              The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.