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Re: OT: 3-Phase Motor for Lathe

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  • Henry
    Ed, My last message was incorrect. This is the best fit based on the information you provided:
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 25, 2010
      Ed,

      My last message was incorrect. This is the best fit based on the information you provided:

      http://www.amazon.com/2-1-5hp-kw-1700PM-Electric-Metric-Motor/dp/B000L9R9YK/ref=sr_1_1?
      http://www.leeson.com/leeson/searchproduct.do?invoke=viewProductDetails&motorNo=192071.00&productType=0

      This is a #192071 Leeson D90L 2 HP 3 Phase base mount motor. Amazon lists it as 2 - 1.5 HP but its a 2 HP motor. Its only $157 plus $27 shipping. I would check all the dimensions against your motor and if it matches, this is your best solution.

      Henry


      --- In dovetail_column_mill_group@yahoogroups.com, "Henry" <henryarnold@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ed,
      >
      > That is the same VFD I put on my 10x22 Lathe except I bought the 1 HP version. It is a great VFD. It has the sensorless vector control which you want for good torque. One feature I like over my Hitachi VFD is that the internal fan turns off when the VFD is stopped. Its quieter. Programming the Teco is very similar to the Hitachi SJ200 I bought for my mill.
      >
      > Regarding the motor, I did something similar to what you are planning for my 10x22 Lathe. I bought a 56C motor for $40 and mounted it on my lathe. I had to make a bushing/flange to adapt the 5/8" motor shaft to the 19 mm pulley hole. I also had to weld ears to the motor base to pick up the mounting holes on the lathe. The lathe's mounting spots did not line up with the 56C motor. After I got all this working I found out that Amazon.com had a brand new 1 HP 3 phase motor for $143 that was a D80 drop in replacement for the 1 phase motor that came with my lathe. The project was fun but buying the drop in replacement would have been easier.
      >
      > Your lathe's motor has a 24 mm shaft (0.9449"). The motor you are thinking of buying has a 0.8750" shaft. You will need a bushing with 0.035" walls. That may be difficult to machine accurately. You should also check the mounting holes on the original and planned motor to see how well they line up. You may have to either drill holes or make some kind of adapter like I did.
      >
      > If you want to check out the prices of drop in replacement metric motors, Here's a link to Electric Motors Warehouse's Metric Motor page.
      >
      > http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/metric_Standard_motors.htm
      >
      > Henry Arnold
      >
      > --- In dovetail_column_mill_group@yahoogroups.com, "ekdadlec" <ekadlec@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Jerry,
      > >
      > > Thanks for the response. Can you please elaborate on your comment "Just be sure to match the output of the VFD to the input of the motor to see that they correspond well."? The Teco VFD outputs 3-phase, 230VAC to support a 2HP motor so it should be compatible unless there is some other parameter that I have to look for.
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > Ed
      > >
      > > --- In dovetail_column_mill_group@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Kimberlin <kimberln@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > On 2/25/2010 4:31 AM, ekdadlec wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > I found this 2HP, 3-phase motor on the Surplus Center web
      > > > > site:
      > > > >
      > > > > http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2348022411491005&item=10-2500&catname=electric
      > > > >
      > > > > I'm thinking of getting it for my 14x40 lathe.
      > > >
      > > > I have a motor just about like that on my 13 x 36 Jet lathe.
      > > > It works fine and mounts up correctly. My motor has the
      > > > same frame but is a Lafert - I couldn't find a surplus one
      > > > at the Surplus Center when I put mine on.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > > This is the VFD I'm probably going to get for the lathe:
      > > > >
      > > > > http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?PID=394&cID=28&scID=165
      > > >
      > > > Looks OK. Just be sure to match the output of the VFD to
      > > > the input of the motor to see that they correspond well. I
      > > > ended up with a GS1-22PO from Automation Direct, now at $158.
      > > >
      > > > JerryK
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • ekdadlec
      Hi Henry, Thanks for the info. I bought the Leeson motor for my mill from Electric Motor Warehouse through Amazon. The 2HP motor you linked to was my first
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 25, 2010
        Hi Henry,

        Thanks for the info.

        I bought the Leeson motor for my mill from Electric Motor Warehouse through Amazon. The 2HP motor you linked to was my first choice until I saw the one from Surplus Center.
        I think you're right. I've changed my mind about the Surplus Center motor. I think I'll go with the Leeson from Amazon. It's not that much more money. As was the case with the motor that came with my mill, my lathe motor is a D90L frame with a modified shaft. The shaft has been turned down to 3/4" and is 3" long so I'm going to have to add an extension to the Leeson motor shaft. It appears that the reason they had to turn down the shaft is to get the pulleys on. It's a two-pulley-in-one affair with the smallest pulley being too small to fit on a 24mm shaft (which is the standard shaft size for a D90L motor). The standard shaft length for a D90L motor is about 2" long so I will need to add an extension. I suppose I could just get a new single pulley with a 24mm bore that will fit on the 2" length shaft and see how it goes. With the VFD driving the motor I may not need that second pulley section.
        Anyway, I'm going to pull the trigger right now and order the Leeson motor from Amazon.

        Thanks Henry!

        Ed

        --- In dovetail_column_mill_group@yahoogroups.com, "Henry" <henryarnold@...> wrote:
        >
        > Sorry for all the messages but this question really got me going. I suggest that you buy the drop in replacement for $157 which is a bargain for a Leeson Motor. If you still want to roll your own, there are few other things I did not mention:
        >
        > 1. The D80 metric motor has a threaded hole in the end of the shaft. The D90 also has a 8 mmm threaded hole. I had to remove the rotor and mount it in my lathe to bore and tap this hole(using a steady rest). This whole is needed because the screw holds the pulley on. The 145T motor probably doesn't have a threaded hole.
        > 2. The D90 metric motor has an 8mm key way. You will need to either open up the 145T motor key way or come up with a custom key that fits the shaft and the pulley. On my 56C motor, I milled a new keyway (6 mm) and provided an opening in the bushing.
        > See this link for a picture
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/10x22grizzlyandthelike/photos/album/1586060735/pic/589492800/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
        > Cutting that opening will be particularly difficult because of the thin wall of the bushing you would need.
        > 3. I had to deal with the motor pulley not being inline with its matching pulley by shimming the location of the bushing and pulley on the shaft. This is necessary because the pulley is held in place with the end screw which holds the pulley against a shoulder. With the D90 replacement this should all be correct because the relationship of the shaft shoulder and the motor mounting is defined by the D90 spec.
        >
        > Last and this is the big one: After all the work I did, the motor ran smooth and had excellent torque and speed range but it would get hot. It got hot because unknown to me, I had bought a motor that originally had an external fan blade. The blade was gone and I had no room to add one. Frustrated, I just ordered the Leeson D80 motor. I arrived in 4 days, it dropped right in, fit perfect, ran smoother than either my original motor or my reworked replacement. It even looks nicer because of the fins and nice paint job. If I had known it was available, I would have just bought it to start with.
        >
        > Sorry for all the messages but as you can see I have been through this whole lathe motor replacement thing and wanted you to benefit from my pain.
        >
        > Henry Arnold
      • Jerry Kimberlin
        ... It used to be that a 2 hp VFD would only power a 1.5 HP motor. Later that was corrected by the industry so that a 2hp VFD would give a full 1500 watts of
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 25, 2010
          On 2/25/2010 8:09 AM, ekdadlec wrote:
          > Hi Jerry,
          >
          > Thanks for the response. Can you please elaborate on your
          > comment "Just be sure to match the output of the VFD to
          > the input of the motor to see that they correspond
          > well."? The Teco VFD outputs 3-phase, 230VAC to support a
          > 2HP motor so it should be compatible unless there is some
          > other parameter that I have to look for.

          It used to be that a 2 hp VFD would only power a 1.5 HP
          motor. Later that was corrected by the industry so that a
          2hp VFD would give a full 1500 watts of power at the rated
          230v output.

          So what I meant was that the input of your motor will have
          certain characteristics printed on the name plate. You want
          to be sure these voltage and amperage requirements are fully
          met by any VFD you buy. IMHO if you can get a VFD that puts
          out, say 1600 watts when you only need 1500 watts, that
          would give you a little margin of safety.

          Even though VFDs have changed a lot since the early ones, I
          have always tried to match output to input just to be safe.

          JerryK

          BTW - my Lafert motor was a drop in replacement in my Jet
          lathe. The Lafert is a metric dimensioned motor.
        • JP
          Hi everyone, WRT the listing of LEESON motors, the first indication before the dash (2) is the power in HP, the second indication after the dash (1.5) in the
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 26, 2010
            Hi everyone,
            WRT the listing of LEESON motors, the first indication before the dash (2) is the power in HP, the second indication after the dash (1.5) in the power in Kw, which is coherent...

            FWIW

            J-P

            --- In dovetail_column_mill_group@yahoogroups.com, "Henry" <henryarnold@...> wrote:
            >
            > Ed,[...]
            > http://www.amazon.com/2-1-5hp-kw-1700PM-Electric-Metric-Motor/dp/B000L9R9YK/ref=sr_1_1?
            > http://www.leeson.com/leeson/searchproduct.do?invoke=viewProductDetails&motorNo=192071.00&productType=0
            > This is a #192071 Leeson D90L 2 HP 3 Phase base mount motor. Amazon lists it as 2 - 1.5 HP but its a 2 HP motor.
            [...]
            > Henry
            >
            >
            > --- In dovetail_column_mill_group@yahoogroups.com, "Henry" <henryarnold@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Ed,
            > >
            > > That is the same VFD I put on my 10x22 Lathe except I bought the 1 HP version. It is a great VFD. It has the sensorless vector control which you want for good torque. One feature I like over my Hitachi VFD is that the internal fan turns off when the VFD is stopped. Its quieter. Programming the Teco is very similar to the Hitachi SJ200 I bought for my mill.
            > >
            > > Regarding the motor, I did something similar to what you are planning for my 10x22 Lathe. I bought a 56C motor for $40 and mounted it on my lathe. I had to make a bushing/flange to adapt the 5/8" motor shaft to the 19 mm pulley hole. I also had to weld ears to the motor base to pick up the mounting holes on the lathe. The lathe's mounting spots did not line up with the 56C motor. After I got all this working I found out that Amazon.com had a brand new 1 HP 3 phase motor for $143 that was a D80 drop in replacement for the 1 phase motor that came with my lathe. The project was fun but buying the drop in replacement would have been easier.
            > >
            > > Your lathe's motor has a 24 mm shaft (0.9449"). The motor you are thinking of buying has a 0.8750" shaft. You will need a bushing with 0.035" walls. That may be difficult to machine accurately. You should also check the mounting holes on the original and planned motor to see how well they line up. You may have to either drill holes or make some kind of adapter like I did.
            > >
            > > If you want to check out the prices of drop in replacement metric motors, Here's a link to Electric Motors Warehouse's Metric Motor page.
            > >
            > > http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/metric_Standard_motors.htm
            > >
            > > Henry Arnold
            > >
            > > --- In dovetail_column_mill_group@yahoogroups.com, "ekdadlec" <ekadlec@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi Jerry,
            > > >
            > > > Thanks for the response. Can you please elaborate on your comment "Just be sure to match the output of the VFD to the input of the motor to see that they correspond well."? The Teco VFD outputs 3-phase, 230VAC to support a 2HP motor so it should be compatible unless there is some other parameter that I have to look for.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks,
            > > > Ed
            > > >
            > > > --- In dovetail_column_mill_group@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Kimberlin <kimberln@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > On 2/25/2010 4:31 AM, ekdadlec wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > > I found this 2HP, 3-phase motor on the Surplus Center web
            > > > > > site:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2348022411491005&item=10-2500&catname=electric
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'm thinking of getting it for my 14x40 lathe.
            > > > >
            > > > > I have a motor just about like that on my 13 x 36 Jet lathe.
            > > > > It works fine and mounts up correctly. My motor has the
            > > > > same frame but is a Lafert - I couldn't find a surplus one
            > > > > at the Surplus Center when I put mine on.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > > This is the VFD I'm probably going to get for the lathe:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?PID=394&cID=28&scID=165
            > > > >
            > > > > Looks OK. Just be sure to match the output of the VFD to
            > > > > the input of the motor to see that they correspond well. I
            > > > > ended up with a GS1-22PO from Automation Direct, now at $158.
            > > > >
            > > > > JerryK
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • ekdadlec
            Hi Henry, I had already picked out the Leeson 192071 some time ago because I had measured the motor and verified that it is a D90L motor with a modified shaft.
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 26, 2010
              Hi Henry,

              I had already picked out the Leeson 192071 some time ago because I had measured the motor and verified that it is a D90L motor with a modified shaft. I ordered the motor last night so it should be here next week.
              I have some time to figure out how to modify the shaft because the purchase of the VFD will have to wait a couple of months until the money is there.

              Thanks for all of your help :^)

              Ed

              --- In dovetail_column_mill_group@yahoogroups.com, "Henry" <henryarnold@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ed,
              >
              > My last message was incorrect. This is the best fit based on the information you provided:
              >
              > http://www.amazon.com/2-1-5hp-kw-1700PM-Electric-Metric-Motor/dp/B000L9R9YK/ref=sr_1_1?
              > http://www.leeson.com/leeson/searchproduct.do?invoke=viewProductDetails&motorNo=192071.00&productType=0
              >
              > This is a #192071 Leeson D90L 2 HP 3 Phase base mount motor. Amazon lists it as 2 - 1.5 HP but its a 2 HP motor. Its only $157 plus $27 shipping. I would check all the dimensions against your motor and if it matches, this is your best solution.
              >
              > Henry
            • ekdadlec
              Hi Jerry, I checked the full load current for the motor I m getting and it is rated for 6.8A and the VFD is capable of delivering 7.5A so it looks like a good
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 26, 2010
                Hi Jerry,

                I checked the full load current for the motor I'm getting and it is rated for 6.8A and the VFD is capable of delivering 7.5A so it looks like a good match. Thanks for suggesting checking that.

                Ed

                > It used to be that a 2 hp VFD would only power a 1.5 HP
                > motor. Later that was corrected by the industry so that a
                > 2hp VFD would give a full 1500 watts of power at the rated
                > 230v output.
                >
                > So what I meant was that the input of your motor will have
                > certain characteristics printed on the name plate. You want
                > to be sure these voltage and amperage requirements are fully
                > met by any VFD you buy. IMHO if you can get a VFD that puts
                > out, say 1600 watts when you only need 1500 watts, that
                > would give you a little margin of safety.
                >
                > Even though VFDs have changed a lot since the early ones, I
                > have always tried to match output to input just to be safe.
                >
                > JerryK
                >
                > BTW - my Lafert motor was a drop in replacement in my Jet
                > lathe. The Lafert is a metric dimensioned motor.
                >
              • ekdadlec
                Oops! I rechecked and the full load current for the motor is 5.8A not 6.8A. Ed
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 26, 2010
                  Oops! I rechecked and the full load current for the motor is 5.8A not 6.8A.

                  Ed

                  --- In dovetail_column_mill_group@yahoogroups.com, "ekdadlec" <ekadlec@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Jerry,
                  >
                  > I checked the full load current for the motor I'm getting and it is rated for 6.8A and the VFD is capable of delivering 7.5A so it looks like a good match. Thanks for suggesting checking that.
                  >
                  > Ed
                  >
                  > > It used to be that a 2 hp VFD would only power a 1.5 HP
                  > > motor. Later that was corrected by the industry so that a
                  > > 2hp VFD would give a full 1500 watts of power at the rated
                  > > 230v output.
                  > >
                  > > So what I meant was that the input of your motor will have
                  > > certain characteristics printed on the name plate. You want
                  > > to be sure these voltage and amperage requirements are fully
                  > > met by any VFD you buy. IMHO if you can get a VFD that puts
                  > > out, say 1600 watts when you only need 1500 watts, that
                  > > would give you a little margin of safety.
                  > >
                  > > Even though VFDs have changed a lot since the early ones, I
                  > > have always tried to match output to input just to be safe.
                  > >
                  > > JerryK
                  > >
                  > > BTW - my Lafert motor was a drop in replacement in my Jet
                  > > lathe. The Lafert is a metric dimensioned motor.
                  > >
                  >
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