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Re: DDD with Proxy Domain Experts

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  • if05041
    we can see it as a opportunity. because the team is already have a ubiquitous language. :) but maybe not all the essence of the domain will be captured. ...
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 2, 2009
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      we can see it as a opportunity. because the team is already have a
      ubiquitous language. :) but maybe not all the essence of the domain
      will be captured.

      --- In domaindrivendesign@yahoogroups.com, Casey Charlton <casey@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Its not a great idea, but its better than nobody appointed as a DE :)
      >
      > 2009/2/2 Colin Jack <colin.jack@...>
      >
      > > Hi All,
      > >
      > > On my current project we won't have access to domain experts, instead
      > > we'll have access to proxy domain experts within the team (primarily
      > > senior developers who worked on the system that we are writing a
      > > replacement for).
      > >
      > > My experience is that going full on with DDD in this sort of situation
      > > is not a good idea, at best you end up producing a great domain model
      > > that is quite probably not fit for purpose. You waste a lot of
      time and
      > > effort and end up with very little to show for it.
      > >
      > > So I'm wondering, do any of you have techniques to make DDD work with
      > > proxy domain experts? Do any of you think its even a good idea?
      > >
      > > Ta,
      > >
      > > Colin
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Peter Morris
      ... Then he is a domain expert, because the business is your companies business, and your product, therefore your DE would be the expert on your product
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 2, 2009
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        >>
        Then he is a domain expert, because the business is your companies business,
        and your product, therefore your DE would be the expert on your product
        <<

        Sure, I agree, but at the same time he is also a proxy for the different
        requirements of each customer.


        Pete
        ====
        http://mrpmorris.blogspot.com
        http://www.capableobjects.com - Think domain, not database
      • Alberto Brandolini
        HI all, A proxy is not necessarily a problem. It largely depends on the context and on the domain. But there are too many question marks open here, so I like
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 3, 2009
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          HI all,

          A proxy is not necessarily a problem. It largely depends on the context and on the
          domain.
          But there are too many question marks open here, so I like Casey's recommendation here.
          I'b probably start something similar: "Aggressively search for domain experts". Sometimes
          this is a feasible way, somatimes it's hgarder, but will give you a warning sign if your
          proxy DE is dragging you off track or not.

          I've been in a similar situation and I was really worried, because our DE was not a real DE
          but had been involved in the previous implementation of the application (15 years before)
          so:
          - he knew the application, and though he knew the domain.
          - he wasn't to inclined to admit that things could have been done differently.

          Later it turned out that the users were so used to the old application that they liked the
          new one just because there was nothing new to learn. No breakthrough, no real
          competitive advantage, but the same old stuff... with a different technology. Maybe doing
          full DDD in such a scenario could be a waste. On the other hand sometimes older version
          of the application are part of the overall domain, and this must be considered too....

          best regards

          Alberto



          --- In domaindrivendesign@yahoogroups.com, Casey Charlton <casey@...> wrote:
          >
          > No experts because?
          > If you are an ISV, start a simple model, phone 3-4 of your best customers,
          > buy them lunch and ask them to rip your ideas to pieces
          >
          > 2009/2/2 Colin Jack <colin.jack@...>
          >
          > > > Te proxy *thinks* they know more than all the customers combined, the
          > > > whole point of DDD is that they almost certainly do not.
          > >
          > > So in this case I think we should consider falling back to simpler
          > > methods where the tech team design solutions that suit them, forgetting
          > > about a shared model and UL.
          > >
          > > These simpler methods are a liability I admit, but they are easier for
          > > junior developers to understand and in my experience are as successful
          > > as DDD *if* you don't have domain experts to discuss the model with.
          > >
          > > Am I wrong?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
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