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Dogway again (or, rather, still)

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  • davidhogg_bcn
    Hi everyone. Sorry to bash on about this, but it did seem somewhat important (to say the least) at the time that Scott mentioned it. Are Tom, Diarmuid and I
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 1, 2004
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      Hi everyone.

      Sorry to bash on about this, but it did seem somewhat important (to
      say the least) at the time that Scott mentioned it.

      Are Tom, Diarmuid and I (and Luke, of course, who helpfully furnished
      us with the following insight: "...coursebooks might very well happen
      to be in the classroom...") the only ones who have anything to say
      about Scott's groundbreaking (earthshaking?) proposal of a dogme
      coursebook & workbook & teacher's book?

      I would have thought that this was an issue very much more worthy of
      discussion here than peripheria such as whether or not to read aloud
      to oneself and/or one's peers(!?).

      I am keenly intrigued to hear what the other 368 of you have to say
      about this. Does anybody feel like letting us all in on their
      opinions?

      That's all,
      D.
    • Pete.
      Hi, Personally, the reason I haven t replied, (apart from it going against the grain of a lurker par excellence...), is that I couldn t quite believe it was
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 1, 2004
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        Hi,
        Personally, the reason I haven't replied, (apart from it going against the grain of a lurker par excellence...), is that I couldn't quite believe it was suggested in the first place.

        First off; I'm fully aware that dogme isn't static or rigid; I'm not against dogme developing, morphing with the times, evolving as different people throw their own hats into the ring and all that, (indeed that was part of the attraction in the first place), but...

        When I first started 'doing' dogme, I saw it as liberation from the straitjacket of coursebooks. Once the coursebook had been binned, the meat of the lesson was necessarily provided by the students. (If I may push it slightly further, the dogme classes generally provided juicy beefsteaks, rather than the stringy mutton served up by Deadway et al).
        I guess what I'm trying to get round to is the fact that if a dogme coursebook becomes a reality, how would it differ from anything else out there? Yeah, there'd be new ideas, blank pages, DIY lessons; all sorts of funky stuff I'm sure, but...but...

        But it'd still be just another coursebook.

        And, no matter how well-intentioned, who needs another one?

        I think Scott referred to dogme as 'a stance' or 'a state of mind' at one point. I totally agree, but I can't see how a coursebook will provide a way to assume the stance or reach that state of mind.

        A book, on the other hand, is another matter. A 'proper' book, detailing the genesis of dogme, coupled with selected postings or entire threads even. This could give people new to dogme the insight into how to start, how to develop their current teaching methods and, most importantly I think, how to make dogme their own and not to 'slavishly follow a methodology' (even one called dogme...).

        Cheers,
        Pete.



        davidhogg_bcn <davidhogg_bcn@...> wrote:
        Hi everyone.

        Sorry to bash on about this, but it did seem somewhat important (to
        say the least) at the time that Scott mentioned it.

        Are Tom, Diarmuid and I (and Luke, of course, who helpfully furnished
        us with the following insight: "...coursebooks might very well happen
        to be in the classroom...") the only ones who have anything to say
        about Scott's groundbreaking (earthshaking?) proposal of a dogme
        coursebook & workbook & teacher's book?

        I would have thought that this was an issue very much more worthy of
        discussion here than peripheria such as whether or not to read aloud
        to oneself and/or one's peers(!?).

        I am keenly intrigued to hear what the other 368 of you have to say
        about this. Does anybody feel like letting us all in on their
        opinions?

        That's all,
        D.



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      • Rita Baker
        At 01:07 PM 4/1/04, you wrote: Hi, A book, on the other hand, is another matter. A proper book, detailing the genesis of dogme, coupled with selected
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 1, 2004
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          At 01:07 PM 4/1/04, you wrote:

          Hi,
          A book, on the other hand, is another matter. A 'proper' book, detailing
          the genesis of dogme, coupled with selected postings or entire threads
          even. This could give people new to dogme the insight into how to start,
          how to develop their current teaching methods and, most importantly I
          think, how to make dogme their own and not to 'slavishly follow a
          methodology' (even one called dogme...).

          Cheers,
          Pete.

          I'll go with that Pete!


          Rita


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        • Jay Schwartz
          Comment 1: I m looking forward to the Easter break to fully digest Scott s original article. But in brief, I personally don t know if what Scott and/or some of
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 1, 2004
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            Comment 1:
            I'm looking forward to the Easter break to fully digest Scott's original article. But in brief, I personally don't know if what Scott and/or some of you envision in DOGWAY could be construed as a slavish methodology or an approach. To me, Dogme will always be a mindset. In that respect, I don't see why a teacher can't adapt a text from a coursebook, practice test book or newspaper in this fashion, if need be. What I think is most important is that the material, if used, is twisted around the learner as opposed to the learner being twisted around the material.

            Comment 2: I'll assume that Dogway will include a meaty text about the "Emperor and his New Clothes"?

            Comment 3: If such a book (radical or not) makes waves and shakes up the coursebook industry, fine. Why not lead by example and work with the establishment as opposed to against it? Anyway, could someone out there actually suggest that a coursebook of this nature would not benefit even some students?

            Comment 4: Perhaps this is just an exercise, as suggested in "The Art of War", of staying close to your friends and closer to your enemies.

            - Jay

            Ps. Sometimes you have to take a step backward in order to go two steps forward.


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