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Re: [dogme] Re: A great Friday! 2

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  • Sue Murray
    ... yes Dennis, I was thinking the same about the students too! (maybe, just put it down to the activation of normal human capacities and capabilities, though
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 1, 2004
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      >What a firightening number of skills and language knowledge - along with
      >energy and concentration - Rob had up his sleeve - and needed - in what
      >Zosia calls a"choice"lesson.

      yes Dennis, I was thinking the same about the students too! (maybe, just
      put it down to the activation of normal human capacities and capabilities,
      though sometimes maybe not so normally seen/expected in a classroom??!)
      (or, as Rob put it, 'simple yet richly complex').

      But, is it so frightening? Maybe yes, if you (meaning 'one') think(s) it's
      necessary to be as expert as Rob! Maybe not, if it's about participation
      and process, good questions rather than 'right' answers, generating greater
      learner autonomy and co-learning rather than the teacher as 'outside' of the
      learning circle?

      and what Rob came up with during the sessions was not so much
      'up his sleeve' but created in response to and from involvement in the
      moment, adapting existing experience and knowledge to the
      specific live scenarios which arose; and what's perhaps most important (and
      less frightening??) are these aspects of response and involvement - and the
      energy and concentration - rather
      than the exact nature of the experience and knowledge? How we use and
      contribute our own expertise, by contextualising it as responsively as we
      can 'on-line' as it were, rather than what that expertise might amount to in
      itself? (Indeed, does a teacher's expertise have an 'in itself' without the
      live reality and needs of learners to share and develop/discover it with?)

      (which maybe, in turn, relates to the fear teachers can have about being
      'caught out' or not being able to answer a question .....whilst realizing
      that many individuals, cultures and education systems still expect the
      teacher to be the font of all knowledge, at the same time that's unlikely to
      shift until learners themselves have opportunities to realize how much more
      effective and involving it is to be learning rather than to be told??)

      Luke's posting nbr 5, which Scott refers to in connection with Open Space,
      is always a recommended
      re-read (and also shows how many of our 'best conversations' have been had
      before - many recurring themes on list are beautifully expressed there!);
      below is just one excerpt which seems to refer to Rob's 'sleeve' ......(and
      incidentally seems to me also to give as good a rationale as any for how not
      planning is not irresponsible or unprofessional)

      (excerpt from posting 5)
      "I was talking to one of my high-level students today, she's an English
      language
      teacher from Romania and agrees that the mania for planning and timing that
      characterises orthodox teacher training is constipated beyond belief and
      mitigates against the development of real teaching skills like flexibility
      and
      adaptability to the class as it happens. Isn't that the point - the class
      does
      just happen, and it's the live analysis and where appropriate subsequent
      reflection on the language that emerges that uses teacher expertise, not
      cutting
      up bits of paper beforehand or anticipating problems etc"
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "scott_thornbury" <sthornbury@...>
      To: <dogme@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:03 PM
      Subject: [dogme] Re: A great Friday! 2


      > --- In dogme@yahoogroups.com, "zosia grudzinska" <zosia_g@w...> wrote:
      > > Nice going, Rob
      > >
      > > This is the kind of class I have discovered thanks to my colleagues
      > from the
      > > learner autonomy IATEFL SIG and have been using it ever since.
      > With all
      > > ages, levels, mixtures. No other "model" can surpass the "choice
      > lesson" in
      > > that it fits everybody and really stimulates and engages the
      > learners.
      >
      > Synchonicity? At about the same time that Rob was running with
      > his "multi activity" class, I was attending a workshop Luke was
      > giving in Tenerife on "open space" technology. For those not
      > familiar, see Luke's original posting 5, and/or
      > http://www.openspaceworld.org/wiki/wiki/wiki.cgi?AboutOpenSpace
      >
      > S.
      >
      >
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    • Marianne Dorléac
      Sue Murray wrote: (excerpt from posting 5) I was talking to one of my high-level students today, she s an English language teacher
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 2, 2004
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        Sue Murray <suemurray@...> wrote:
        (excerpt from posting 5)
        "I was talking to one of my high-level students today, she's an English
        language
        teacher from Romania and agrees that the mania for planning and timing that
        characterises orthodox teacher training is constipated beyond belief and
        mitigates against the development of real teaching skills like flexibility
        and
        adaptability to the class as it happens. Isn't that the point - the class
        does
        just happen, and it's the live analysis and where appropriate subsequent
        reflection on the language that emerges that uses teacher expertise, not
        cutting
        up bits of paper beforehand or anticipating problems etc"

        MD : Yes, the class just happens _or doesn't_. I mean, the teacher is there _also_ to trigger things off, to make things happen, to create the right atmosphere for the conversation to take place, to happen.

        I would like to thank you Sue for this post : despite its teaching interest, it is _also_ a language lesson for me !

        Marianne Dorléac



















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