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Re: [dogme] Teaching a la Dogme in Second Life

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  • Robert Haines
    I d like to add my thanks, to Dennis and Carol, for the production and distribution of this series of videos. I ve just finished taking in the third
    Message 1 of 28 , Sep 5, 2013
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      I'd like to add my thanks, to Dennis and Carol, for the production and distribution of this series of videos. I've just finished taking in the third installment, which has Dennis and Carol seated in Dogme Gardens, chatting about their virtual environs, Dogme luminary Scott Thornbury, and an example of a Romanian student who seems to have benefited quite well from a Dogme approach in Second Life. I look forward to the rest of the videos and encourage everyone to have a look and listen.

      As one of the co-moderators of this list, it seems relevant to say that ad hominem remarks have never seemed very constructive in furthering intelligent, articulate arguments in our online discussions. Most every list member I've encountered here is perfectly capable of such discussion, and, to me, it's best for all of us if it stays that way. It's refreshing to read recent posts in this vein.

      I've been teaching a group of twenty young adult learners (about 18-24 in age range) for the past few weeks. This is our intensive summer term of English Language Learning, which means about four hours a day with each other before we move on to fall term when the students take one other course along with English Language Learning. What a wonderful group this is, and how eager they seem to learn! It's made the transition from a lovely summer spent mainly outdoors here in the Pacific Northwest to an air-conditioned classroom all the easier - of course, we've had more than one class outside!

      Wishing you all well,
      Rob
      On Sep 1, 2013, at 7:36 PM, M C Johnstone wrote:

       

      Hi Robert,

      You say: " If learner-centred learning is problematic, it may have
      something to do with your teaching. All learning happens from a person,
      and it has nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of technology.
      Learning is about people, not objects."
      I agree entirely with this.

      In my experience, most a majority of teachers who have problems with
      learner centered teaching cannot let go of their imagined "authority"
      over students. They cannot trust students to know what they are doing
      and why, and they cannot trust themselves to teach. They are mostly
      diven by fear of authority over them and insecurity in their role in
      the classroom.

      This is true in education generally, but especially rampant in ESL, an
      industry organized around the sale of useless, ineffective merchandise
      and never ending "courses of treatment" that - like quack medicine - is
      proven only to fail.

      Mark

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    • barbarelah
      I agree with you Mark, Also, if a teacher is over protective towards the lessons and SS then there is a lot of pressure to achieve the desired outcome
      Message 2 of 28 , Sep 18, 2013
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        I agree with you Mark,
        Also, if a teacher is "over protective" towards the lessons and SS then there is a lot of pressure to achieve the desired outcome planned by the teacher, which isn't realistic and can make the lessons too controlled.
        Once upon a time I learned English and then started teaching it, so in my experience the less I try and control my lessons, and consequently my SS, the more SS tend to acquire the language and enjoy the process.
        A good example is clear when I'm being observed. The lesson is never as good as I would like it to be and I end up forgetting to do the things I normally and naturally do and often over-plan, because I feel under pressure.
        I like Dogme approach and I use it in addition to course books and other materials. I also adapt the activities as I see fit, but I'm still too scared to do so in an observed lesson, because observers have an agenda to fulfill and aren't flexible.

        I trust my SS know what they want t learn, as some are highly educated adults, so when I'm doing Dogme style lessons I feel like an old- fashion flight attendant: there to do everything I can to make the passengers' experience as pleasant as possible. Of course respecting my duties as a teacher which includes: ensuring total student engagement to avoid the lesson going astray; helping SS with the language they need and want to learn and facilitating the process in a smooth and supportive way.


        --- In dogme@yahoogroups.com, M C Johnstone <mcjsa@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Robert,
        >
        >
        >
        > You say: " If learner-centred learning is problematic, it may have
        > something to do with your teaching. All learning happens from a person,
        > and it has nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of technology.
        > Learning is about people, not objects."
        > I agree entirely with this.
        >
        >
        >
        > In my experience, most a majority of teachers who have problems with
        > learner centered teaching cannot let go of their imagined "authority"
        > over students. They cannot trust students to know what they are doing
        > and why, and they cannot trust themselves to teach. They are mostly
        > diven by fear of authority over them and insecurity in their role in
        > the classroom.
        >
        >
        >
        > This is true in education generally, but especially rampant in ESL, an
        > industry organized around the sale of useless, ineffective merchandise
        > and never ending "courses of treatment" that - like quack medicine - is
        > proven only to fail.
        >
        >
        > Mark
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • M C Johnstone
        Hi Barbarella, I understand what you mean by being overprotective towards lessons, as if lessons were things that needed to be protected. A lot of teachers
        Message 3 of 28 , Sep 18, 2013
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          Hi Barbarella,
           
          I understand what you mean by being "overprotective" towards lessons, as if lessons were things that needed to be protected. A lot of teachers feel this way I think. They imagine how things ought to go and think it is their responsibility to ensure that everything goes "as planned". What they are really planning is learning and learning is something that no one can reasonably plan - expecially if you are talking about 20 or 30 people engaged in what must be 20 or 30 individual activities all at once.
           
          I've been setting a lot of collaborative work lately. It isn't-self directed - they have to give me something at the end - but the collaboration is very productive. Collaboration requires me to let go of some authority as a teacher and mobilizes a "teaching presence" among students which dilutes my role and helps them to become more autonomous in their learning.
           
          Mark
           
           
          On Wed, Sep 18, 2013, at 02:06 PM, barbarelah wrote:
           


          I agree with you Mark,
          Also, if a teacher is "over protective" towards the lessons and SS then there is a lot of pressure to achieve the desired outcome planned by the teacher, which isn't realistic and can make the lessons too controlled.
          Once upon a time I learned English and then started teaching it, so in my experience the less I try and control my lessons, and consequently my SS, the more SS tend to acquire the language and enjoy the process.
          A good example is clear when I'm being observed. The lesson is never as good as I would like it to be and I end up forgetting to do the things I normally and naturally do and often over-plan, because I feel under pressure.
          I like Dogme approach and I use it in addition to course books and other materials. I also adapt the activities as I see fit, but I'm still too scared to do so in an observed lesson, because observers have an agenda to fulfill and aren't flexible.
           
          I trust my SS know what they want t learn, as some are highly educated adults, so when I'm doing Dogme style lessons I feel like an old- fashion flight attendant: there to do everything I can to make the passengers' experience as pleasant as possible. Of course respecting my duties as a teacher which includes: ensuring total student engagement to avoid the lesson going astray; helping SS with the language they need and want to learn and facilitating the process in a smooth and supportive way.
           
          --- In dogme@yahoogroups.com, M C Johnstone <mcjsa@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Robert,
          >
          >
          >
          > You say: " If learner-centred learning is problematic, it may have
          > something to do with your teaching. All learning happens from a person,
          > and it has nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of technology.
          > Learning is about people, not objects."
          > I agree entirely with this.
          >
          >
          >
          > In my experience, most a majority of teachers who have problems with
          > learner centered teaching cannot let go of their imagined "authority"
          > over students. They cannot trust students to know what they are doing
          > and why, and they cannot trust themselves to teach. They are mostly
          > diven by fear of authority over them and insecurity in their role in
          > the classroom.
          >
          >
          >
          > This is true in education generally, but especially rampant in ESL, an
          > industry organized around the sale of useless, ineffective merchandise
          > and never ending "courses of treatment" that - like quack medicine - is
          > proven only to fail.
          >
          >
          > Mark
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
           

           
          --
          mcjsa@...
        • Dennis Newson
          Barbarella and Mark I ve just read your recent messages to the list and wallow in the coal-face reports of what has often been called on this list Dogme
          Message 4 of 28 , Sep 18, 2013
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            Barbarella and Mark I've just read your recent messages to the list and wallow in the "coal-face" reports of what has often been called on this list "Dogme moments". As Mark writes, the Dogme teacher is one who learns to let go - the teacher loosens  hold and this enables the learners to make learning progress on their own - to go.

            Dennis

            --
            *

            Dennis Newson
            Formerly : University of Osnabrueck, GERMANY


            Committee member : IATEFL YLTSIG

            Network Coordinator  IATEFL:YLTSIG Teens (T)

            Committee Member : IATEFL GISIG: Social  networking

            Founder: Osna Group Second Life

            Initiator:  MCC - Machinima Creative Club  Second Life

            Winner British Council ELT 05 Team Innovation Award

            Personal homepage 

             Skype: Osnacantab
            Second Life: Osnacantab Nesterov



            On 18 September 2013 19:37, M C Johnstone <mcjsa@...> wrote:
             

            Hi Barbarella,
             
            I understand what you mean by being "overprotective" towards lessons, as if lessons were things that needed to be protected. A lot of teachers feel this way I think. They imagine how things ought to go and think it is their responsibility to ensure that everything goes "as planned". What they are really planning is learning and learning is something that no one can reasonably plan - expecially if you are talking about 20 or 30 people engaged in what must be 20 or 30 individual activities all at once.
             
            I've been setting a lot of collaborative work lately. It isn't-self directed - they have to give me something at the end - but the collaboration is very productive. Collaboration requires me to let go of some authority as a teacher and mobilizes a "teaching presence" among students which dilutes my role and helps them to become more autonomous in their learning.
             
            Mark
             
             
            On Wed, Sep 18, 2013, at 02:06 PM, barbarelah wrote:
             


            I agree with you Mark,
            Also, if a teacher is "over protective" towards the lessons and SS then there is a lot of pressure to achieve the desired outcome planned by the teacher, which isn't realistic and can make the lessons too controlled.
            Once upon a time I learned English and then started teaching it, so in my experience the less I try and control my lessons, and consequently my SS, the more SS tend to acquire the language and enjoy the process.
            A good example is clear when I'm being observed. The lesson is never as good as I would like it to be and I end up forgetting to do the things I normally and naturally do and often over-plan, because I feel under pressure.
            I like Dogme approach and I use it in addition to course books and other materials. I also adapt the activities as I see fit, but I'm still too scared to do so in an observed lesson, because observers have an agenda to fulfill and aren't flexible.
             
            I trust my SS know what they want t learn, as some are highly educated adults, so when I'm doing Dogme style lessons I feel like an old- fashion flight attendant: there to do everything I can to make the passengers' experience as pleasant as possible. Of course respecting my duties as a teacher which includes: ensuring total student engagement to avoid the lesson going astray; helping SS with the language they need and want to learn and facilitating the process in a smooth and supportive way.
             
            --- In dogme@yahoogroups.com, M C Johnstone <mcjsa@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Robert,
            >
            >
            >
            > You say: " If learner-centred learning is problematic, it may have
            > something to do with your teaching. All learning happens from a person,
            > and it has nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of technology.
            > Learning is about people, not objects."
            > I agree entirely with this.
            >
            >
            >
            > In my experience, most a majority of teachers who have problems with
            > learner centered teaching cannot let go of their imagined "authority"
            > over students. They cannot trust students to know what they are doing
            > and why, and they cannot trust themselves to teach. They are mostly
            > diven by fear of authority over them and insecurity in their role in
            > the classroom.
            >
            >
            >
            > This is true in education generally, but especially rampant in ESL, an
            > industry organized around the sale of useless, ineffective merchandise
            > and never ending "courses of treatment" that - like quack medicine - is
            > proven only to fail.
            >
            >
            > Mark
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
             

             


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