Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [dogme] Teaching a la Dogme in Second Life

Expand Messages
  • M C Johnstone
    I remember the Situationists, and was drawn to them in the early 80s. I think that Dogme fits in well with Situationist thinking thorough its emphasis on
    Message 1 of 28 , Sep 1, 2013
      I remember the Situationists, and was drawn to them in the early 80s. I
      think that Dogme fits in well with Situationist thinking thorough its
      emphasis on learner-centeredness, the submersion of the "teacher" as a
      source of authority and order, and its focus on learner autonomy and
      spontaneous self-organization.



      Dogma - as I understand it - also rejects the tyranny of coursebooks,
      gadgets, and all the other branded paraphernalia shoved at both
      students and teachers, as if learning were something that could be
      bought and sold - a commodity. Rejection of classroom as spectacle is -
      I believe - common among those who know and use some form of Dogme.



      Mark





      On Sun, Sep 1, 2013, at 11:01 PM, Robert Horne wrote:




      May I add that I am, and have been for twenty years or more, a
      Situationist.


      ________________________________
      From: Robert Horne <[1]bretorne@...>
      To: "[2]dogme@yahoogroups.com" <[3]dogme@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, 2 September 2013, 1:27
      Subject: Re: [dogme] Teaching a la Dogme in Second Life




      You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not thinking about the
      original Dogme (not thinking about 'Dogme', just about your own ideas).
      Dogme is about people in a room using English, and that's all. If you
      disagree with Scott and me, check out the original Dogme collective,
      which was a Danish film production company - probably
      anarchist-inspired, but that doesn't worry me - which devised this
      technique (following the French Lettristes and the Situationist
      International).


      ________________________________
      From: Weynta <mailto:weynta%40yahoo.de>
      To: "mailto:dogme%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:dogme%40yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: "mailto:dogme%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:dogme%40yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, 2 September 2013, 1:13
      Subject: Re: [dogme] Teaching a la Dogme in Second Life



      I would disagree- technology promoting student autonomy and meaning
      creation- tools - is about as "dogme" as it gets in my book.
      Sent from my iPhone

      On Sep 1, 2013, at 3:33 PM, Robert Horne
      <mailto:bretorne%40yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

      >
      > as I understand it, 'Dogme' is about non-technical ways of working
      with and off students; Scott's comment - 'It's about people in a room
      using English'. All this dross is just technobabble nonsense and has
      nothing to do with Dogme.
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Dennis Newson <mailto:djn%40dennisnewson.de>
      > To: l <mailto:dogme%40yahoogroups.com>;
      "mailto:evonline2002_webheads%40yahoogroups.com"
      <mailto:evonline2002_webheads%40yahoogroups.com>;
      mailto:learningwithcomputers%40yahoogroups.com; learningtechnologiessig
      <mailto:LearningTechnologiesSIG%40yahoogroups.com>; gisig
      <mailto:gisig%40yahoogroups.com>; j
      <mailto:younglearners%40yahoogroups.com>; TTEdSIG
      <mailto:ttedsig%40iatefl.org>
      > Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2013, 13:39
      > Subject: [dogme] Teaching a la Dogme in Second Life
      >
      >
      > Shared with the following lists, groups, with apologies for
      cross-posting:
      >
      > Facebook Machinema , Dogme, IATEFL Facebook, Webheads,
      > learningwithcomputers, GISIG, YLTSIG, Learning Technology, TTEdSIG,
      ELTA-OWL
      >
      > Dennis Newson
      >
      > ----------
      >
      > I have just re-discovered and uploaded to YouTube for the first time
      a 35
      > minute-long video, divided into 10 short uneven clips of between one
      and
      > eight minutes:
      >
      > *Dogme in Second Life*: *A conversation between Carol Rainbow and
      Dennis
      > Newson (Osna) – Teaching a la Dogme in Second Life *
      >
      > *Camera and sound: Carol*
      >
      > *----------------------------------*
      >
      > *I suppose these video clips can be classified as machinema, though
      at the
      > time they were made I, at least, had never heard of machinema! I’m
      sure
      > Carol had and, I believe, had already made one or two.*
      >
      > *Enjoy. Comments more than welcome.*
      >
      > *----------*
      >
      > *Like all basically lazy people, I try to avoid what I consider to be
      > unnecessary tasks. These videos/machinema are raw – not edited. It is
      what
      > we say, that, just possibly is of passing interest to some. Technical
      > imperfections are, in my opinion, far lower than “secondary”. Life is
      too
      > short to edit such videos except under special circumstances.*
      >
      > * *
      >
      > *Dennis aka Osna.*
      >
      > Video 1: [4]http://youtu.be/FTYENQEGppM
      >
      > Video 2: [5]http://youtu.be/EF-DGFDeVpM
      >
      > Video 3: [6]http://youtu.be/cMR5Fdlp_ho
      >
      > Video 4: [7]http://youtu.be/D8Cgz3bQ5X8
      >
      > Video 5: [8]http://youtu.be/U9s6ELnZiMk
      >
      > Video 6: [9]http://youtu.be/bO1q17im7b0
      >
      > Video 7: [10]http://youtu.be/a_1gXzw434A
      >
      > Video 8: [11]http://youtu.be/tVTnQGTDTlU
      >
      > Video 9: [12]http://youtu.be/-rz6aZ7bqvY
      >
      > Video 10: [13]http://youtu.be/Z4UJ2MMPUmM
      >
      > --
      >
      > --
      > *
      >
      > *Dennis Newson*
      > Formerly : University of Osnabrueck, GERMANY
      >
      > Committee member : IATEFL: YLTSIG,Network Coordinator Teens (*T*)
      >
      > Committee Member : IATEFL GISIG
      >
      > Founder: Osna Group Second Life
      >
      > Initiator: MCC - Machinima Creative Club Second Life
      >
      > Winner British Council ELT 05 Team Innovation Award
      >
      > Personal homepage <[14]http://www.dennisnewson.de/>
      >
      > Skype: *Osnacantab*
      > Second Life: *Osnacantab Nesterov*
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: mailto:dogme%40eGroups.com
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      mailto:dogme-unsubscribe%40eGroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      --
      mcjsa@...

      References

      1. mailto:bretorne%40yahoo.co.uk
      2. mailto:dogme%40yahoogroups.com
      3. mailto:dogme%40yahoogroups.com
      4. http://youtu.be/FTYENQEGppM
      5. http://youtu.be/EF-DGFDeVpM
      6. http://youtu.be/cMR5Fdlp_ho
      7. http://youtu.be/D8Cgz3bQ5X8
      8. http://youtu.be/U9s6ELnZiMk
      9. http://youtu.be/bO1q17im7b0
      10. http://youtu.be/a_1gXzw434A
      11. http://youtu.be/tVTnQGTDTlU
      12. http://youtu.be/-rz6aZ7bqvY
      13. http://youtu.be/Z4UJ2MMPUmM
      14. http://www.dennisnewson.de/
      15. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogme/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZzlqcThrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NTM2NzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQzMzM2BG1zZ0lkAzE3NTAzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM3ODA2NTY5Mg--?act=reply&messageNum=17503
      16. mailto:bretorne@...?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bdogme%5D%20Teaching%20a%20la%20Dogme%20in%20Second%20Life
      17. mailto:dogme@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bdogme%5D%20Teaching%20a%20la%20Dogme%20in%20Second%20Life
      18. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogme/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbWR1ZGRzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NTM2NzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQzMzM2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM3ODA2NTY5Mg--
      19. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogme/message/17498;_ylc=X3oDMTM2MGFjNnZyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NTM2NzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQzMzM2BG1zZ0lkAzE3NTAzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM3ODA2NTY5MgR0cGNJZAMxNzQ5OA--
      20. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogme/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaWFqbzV1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NTM2NzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQzMzM2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzNzgwNjU2OTI-?o=6
      21. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogme;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNWthajZkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NTM2NzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQzMzM2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTM3ODA2NTY5Mg--
      22. http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbWhmM2pnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NTM2NzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQzMzM2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzc4MDY1Njky
      23. mailto:dogme-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional
      24. mailto:dogme-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest
      25. mailto:dogme-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
      26. http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      27. mailto:ygroupsnotifications@yahoogroups.com?subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20redesigned%20individual%20mail%20v1


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • M C Johnstone
      Hi Robert, You say: If learner-centred learning is problematic, it may have something to do with your teaching. All learning happens from a person, and it
      Message 2 of 28 , Sep 1, 2013
        Hi Robert,



        You say: " If learner-centred learning is problematic, it may have
        something to do with your teaching. All learning happens from a person,
        and it has nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of technology.
        Learning is about people, not objects."
        I agree entirely with this.



        In my experience, most a majority of teachers who have problems with
        learner centered teaching cannot let go of their imagined "authority"
        over students. They cannot trust students to know what they are doing
        and why, and they cannot trust themselves to teach. They are mostly
        diven by fear of authority over them and insecurity in their role in
        the classroom.



        This is true in education generally, but especially rampant in ESL, an
        industry organized around the sale of useless, ineffective merchandise
        and never ending "courses of treatment" that - like quack medicine - is
        proven only to fail.


        Mark


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Robert Haines
        I d like to add my thanks, to Dennis and Carol, for the production and distribution of this series of videos. I ve just finished taking in the third
        Message 3 of 28 , Sep 5, 2013
          I'd like to add my thanks, to Dennis and Carol, for the production and distribution of this series of videos. I've just finished taking in the third installment, which has Dennis and Carol seated in Dogme Gardens, chatting about their virtual environs, Dogme luminary Scott Thornbury, and an example of a Romanian student who seems to have benefited quite well from a Dogme approach in Second Life. I look forward to the rest of the videos and encourage everyone to have a look and listen.

          As one of the co-moderators of this list, it seems relevant to say that ad hominem remarks have never seemed very constructive in furthering intelligent, articulate arguments in our online discussions. Most every list member I've encountered here is perfectly capable of such discussion, and, to me, it's best for all of us if it stays that way. It's refreshing to read recent posts in this vein.

          I've been teaching a group of twenty young adult learners (about 18-24 in age range) for the past few weeks. This is our intensive summer term of English Language Learning, which means about four hours a day with each other before we move on to fall term when the students take one other course along with English Language Learning. What a wonderful group this is, and how eager they seem to learn! It's made the transition from a lovely summer spent mainly outdoors here in the Pacific Northwest to an air-conditioned classroom all the easier - of course, we've had more than one class outside!

          Wishing you all well,
          Rob
          On Sep 1, 2013, at 7:36 PM, M C Johnstone wrote:

           

          Hi Robert,

          You say: " If learner-centred learning is problematic, it may have
          something to do with your teaching. All learning happens from a person,
          and it has nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of technology.
          Learning is about people, not objects."
          I agree entirely with this.

          In my experience, most a majority of teachers who have problems with
          learner centered teaching cannot let go of their imagined "authority"
          over students. They cannot trust students to know what they are doing
          and why, and they cannot trust themselves to teach. They are mostly
          diven by fear of authority over them and insecurity in their role in
          the classroom.

          This is true in education generally, but especially rampant in ESL, an
          industry organized around the sale of useless, ineffective merchandise
          and never ending "courses of treatment" that - like quack medicine - is
          proven only to fail.

          Mark

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        • barbarelah
          I agree with you Mark, Also, if a teacher is over protective towards the lessons and SS then there is a lot of pressure to achieve the desired outcome
          Message 4 of 28 , Sep 18, 2013
            I agree with you Mark,
            Also, if a teacher is "over protective" towards the lessons and SS then there is a lot of pressure to achieve the desired outcome planned by the teacher, which isn't realistic and can make the lessons too controlled.
            Once upon a time I learned English and then started teaching it, so in my experience the less I try and control my lessons, and consequently my SS, the more SS tend to acquire the language and enjoy the process.
            A good example is clear when I'm being observed. The lesson is never as good as I would like it to be and I end up forgetting to do the things I normally and naturally do and often over-plan, because I feel under pressure.
            I like Dogme approach and I use it in addition to course books and other materials. I also adapt the activities as I see fit, but I'm still too scared to do so in an observed lesson, because observers have an agenda to fulfill and aren't flexible.

            I trust my SS know what they want t learn, as some are highly educated adults, so when I'm doing Dogme style lessons I feel like an old- fashion flight attendant: there to do everything I can to make the passengers' experience as pleasant as possible. Of course respecting my duties as a teacher which includes: ensuring total student engagement to avoid the lesson going astray; helping SS with the language they need and want to learn and facilitating the process in a smooth and supportive way.


            --- In dogme@yahoogroups.com, M C Johnstone <mcjsa@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Robert,
            >
            >
            >
            > You say: " If learner-centred learning is problematic, it may have
            > something to do with your teaching. All learning happens from a person,
            > and it has nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of technology.
            > Learning is about people, not objects."
            > I agree entirely with this.
            >
            >
            >
            > In my experience, most a majority of teachers who have problems with
            > learner centered teaching cannot let go of their imagined "authority"
            > over students. They cannot trust students to know what they are doing
            > and why, and they cannot trust themselves to teach. They are mostly
            > diven by fear of authority over them and insecurity in their role in
            > the classroom.
            >
            >
            >
            > This is true in education generally, but especially rampant in ESL, an
            > industry organized around the sale of useless, ineffective merchandise
            > and never ending "courses of treatment" that - like quack medicine - is
            > proven only to fail.
            >
            >
            > Mark
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • M C Johnstone
            Hi Barbarella, I understand what you mean by being overprotective towards lessons, as if lessons were things that needed to be protected. A lot of teachers
            Message 5 of 28 , Sep 18, 2013
              Hi Barbarella,
               
              I understand what you mean by being "overprotective" towards lessons, as if lessons were things that needed to be protected. A lot of teachers feel this way I think. They imagine how things ought to go and think it is their responsibility to ensure that everything goes "as planned". What they are really planning is learning and learning is something that no one can reasonably plan - expecially if you are talking about 20 or 30 people engaged in what must be 20 or 30 individual activities all at once.
               
              I've been setting a lot of collaborative work lately. It isn't-self directed - they have to give me something at the end - but the collaboration is very productive. Collaboration requires me to let go of some authority as a teacher and mobilizes a "teaching presence" among students which dilutes my role and helps them to become more autonomous in their learning.
               
              Mark
               
               
              On Wed, Sep 18, 2013, at 02:06 PM, barbarelah wrote:
               


              I agree with you Mark,
              Also, if a teacher is "over protective" towards the lessons and SS then there is a lot of pressure to achieve the desired outcome planned by the teacher, which isn't realistic and can make the lessons too controlled.
              Once upon a time I learned English and then started teaching it, so in my experience the less I try and control my lessons, and consequently my SS, the more SS tend to acquire the language and enjoy the process.
              A good example is clear when I'm being observed. The lesson is never as good as I would like it to be and I end up forgetting to do the things I normally and naturally do and often over-plan, because I feel under pressure.
              I like Dogme approach and I use it in addition to course books and other materials. I also adapt the activities as I see fit, but I'm still too scared to do so in an observed lesson, because observers have an agenda to fulfill and aren't flexible.
               
              I trust my SS know what they want t learn, as some are highly educated adults, so when I'm doing Dogme style lessons I feel like an old- fashion flight attendant: there to do everything I can to make the passengers' experience as pleasant as possible. Of course respecting my duties as a teacher which includes: ensuring total student engagement to avoid the lesson going astray; helping SS with the language they need and want to learn and facilitating the process in a smooth and supportive way.
               
              --- In dogme@yahoogroups.com, M C Johnstone <mcjsa@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Robert,
              >
              >
              >
              > You say: " If learner-centred learning is problematic, it may have
              > something to do with your teaching. All learning happens from a person,
              > and it has nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of technology.
              > Learning is about people, not objects."
              > I agree entirely with this.
              >
              >
              >
              > In my experience, most a majority of teachers who have problems with
              > learner centered teaching cannot let go of their imagined "authority"
              > over students. They cannot trust students to know what they are doing
              > and why, and they cannot trust themselves to teach. They are mostly
              > diven by fear of authority over them and insecurity in their role in
              > the classroom.
              >
              >
              >
              > This is true in education generally, but especially rampant in ESL, an
              > industry organized around the sale of useless, ineffective merchandise
              > and never ending "courses of treatment" that - like quack medicine - is
              > proven only to fail.
              >
              >
              > Mark
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
               

               
              --
              mcjsa@...
            • Dennis Newson
              Barbarella and Mark I ve just read your recent messages to the list and wallow in the coal-face reports of what has often been called on this list Dogme
              Message 6 of 28 , Sep 18, 2013
                Barbarella and Mark I've just read your recent messages to the list and wallow in the "coal-face" reports of what has often been called on this list "Dogme moments". As Mark writes, the Dogme teacher is one who learns to let go - the teacher loosens  hold and this enables the learners to make learning progress on their own - to go.

                Dennis

                --
                *

                Dennis Newson
                Formerly : University of Osnabrueck, GERMANY


                Committee member : IATEFL YLTSIG

                Network Coordinator  IATEFL:YLTSIG Teens (T)

                Committee Member : IATEFL GISIG: Social  networking

                Founder: Osna Group Second Life

                Initiator:  MCC - Machinima Creative Club  Second Life

                Winner British Council ELT 05 Team Innovation Award

                Personal homepage 

                 Skype: Osnacantab
                Second Life: Osnacantab Nesterov



                On 18 September 2013 19:37, M C Johnstone <mcjsa@...> wrote:
                 

                Hi Barbarella,
                 
                I understand what you mean by being "overprotective" towards lessons, as if lessons were things that needed to be protected. A lot of teachers feel this way I think. They imagine how things ought to go and think it is their responsibility to ensure that everything goes "as planned". What they are really planning is learning and learning is something that no one can reasonably plan - expecially if you are talking about 20 or 30 people engaged in what must be 20 or 30 individual activities all at once.
                 
                I've been setting a lot of collaborative work lately. It isn't-self directed - they have to give me something at the end - but the collaboration is very productive. Collaboration requires me to let go of some authority as a teacher and mobilizes a "teaching presence" among students which dilutes my role and helps them to become more autonomous in their learning.
                 
                Mark
                 
                 
                On Wed, Sep 18, 2013, at 02:06 PM, barbarelah wrote:
                 


                I agree with you Mark,
                Also, if a teacher is "over protective" towards the lessons and SS then there is a lot of pressure to achieve the desired outcome planned by the teacher, which isn't realistic and can make the lessons too controlled.
                Once upon a time I learned English and then started teaching it, so in my experience the less I try and control my lessons, and consequently my SS, the more SS tend to acquire the language and enjoy the process.
                A good example is clear when I'm being observed. The lesson is never as good as I would like it to be and I end up forgetting to do the things I normally and naturally do and often over-plan, because I feel under pressure.
                I like Dogme approach and I use it in addition to course books and other materials. I also adapt the activities as I see fit, but I'm still too scared to do so in an observed lesson, because observers have an agenda to fulfill and aren't flexible.
                 
                I trust my SS know what they want t learn, as some are highly educated adults, so when I'm doing Dogme style lessons I feel like an old- fashion flight attendant: there to do everything I can to make the passengers' experience as pleasant as possible. Of course respecting my duties as a teacher which includes: ensuring total student engagement to avoid the lesson going astray; helping SS with the language they need and want to learn and facilitating the process in a smooth and supportive way.
                 
                --- In dogme@yahoogroups.com, M C Johnstone <mcjsa@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Robert,
                >
                >
                >
                > You say: " If learner-centred learning is problematic, it may have
                > something to do with your teaching. All learning happens from a person,
                > and it has nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of technology.
                > Learning is about people, not objects."
                > I agree entirely with this.
                >
                >
                >
                > In my experience, most a majority of teachers who have problems with
                > learner centered teaching cannot let go of their imagined "authority"
                > over students. They cannot trust students to know what they are doing
                > and why, and they cannot trust themselves to teach. They are mostly
                > diven by fear of authority over them and insecurity in their role in
                > the classroom.
                >
                >
                >
                > This is true in education generally, but especially rampant in ESL, an
                > industry organized around the sale of useless, ineffective merchandise
                > and never ending "courses of treatment" that - like quack medicine - is
                > proven only to fail.
                >
                >
                > Mark
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                 

                 


              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.