Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [dogme] Re: Your Message to dogme

Expand Messages
  • Natasha Janzen Ulbricht
    One point: Correct me if I m wrong, but the point here is that the English (living) language is over its fixation with absurd rules , but grammar experts,
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 13, 2013
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      One point:

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but the point here is that the English (living) language is over "its fixation with absurd rules", but grammar experts, such as Mr Gwynne, are not. For most English speakers taking Mr Gwynne's test (and getting an abysmal score!) is a matter of personal choice. In Southern Africa I winced when I saw exactly these kinds of questions being used in school contests to establish who was best in English. I had hoped that measuring English proficiency in this way was something left over from colonialism. It appears I was wrong.

      Natasha
    • clairewood
      Re grammar. Isnt education about giving people choices? Why limit them to one speech community only? Its not a question of correct/incorrect, its learning
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 13, 2013
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Re grammar. Isnt education about giving people choices? Why limit them to one speech community only? Its not a question of correct/incorrect, its learning appropriate register. Like it or not, 'you wasnt' is perfectly OK used in some circumstances but you will be judged if you use it in others.

        --- In dogme@yahoogroups.com, Liz Turner <liz_t_51@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Mat,
        > > 
        > >I got 75% and I have a degree in English Language and Literature! I'm amazed you think only 2 of the questions are silly. I think the whole thing is absurd, outdated, irrelevant to anyone's ability to communicate successfully and that Michael Gove should be put in a time machine and sent back to the Victorian era, where he would clearly be much more at home.
        > > 
        > >(Oh, and Q11 depends on the absence of a comma between brother and who i.e. it's a defining relative clause, for those who care about such things, the implication being that there is another brother!)
        > > 
        > >Liz
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >>________________________________
        > >> From: "dogme@yahoogroups.com" <dogme@yahoogroups.com>
        > >>To: dogme@yahoogroups.com
        > >>Sent: Sunday, 11 August 2013, 14:13
        > >>Subject: [dogme] Digest Number 3292
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> ELT Dogme
        > >>
        > >>ELT Dogme Group
        > >>
        > >>1 New Message
        > >>Digest #3292
        > >>
        > >>1a
        > >>Re: Official UK goverment back's Gwynne's grammar. Radio 4 interview by "Mat" matsimpson93
        > >>Message
        > >>1a
        > >>Re: Official UK goverment back's Gwynne's grammar. Radio 4 interview
        > >>Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:06 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
        > >>"Mat" matsimpson93
        > >>Personally, I'm speechless and gasping for breath.
        > >>>
        > >>> What do you think?
        > >>
        > >>I think it's total madness. He's talking about primary and secondary school children in the U.K. As long as they're native speakers their 'grammar&# 39; is perfect. They may be from a different speech community than Mr. Gwynne, and he and Mr. Gove (who I think is horrible) might well think what they say or write is incorrect. "We was late" for "we were late" might be an example (for certain communities in London the former is perfectly acceptable), but who are they to tell people what to say or how to say it?
        > >>Language evolves and it always has done. To give native speakers a prescriptive grammar seems pointless and arcane. Texts, e-mails, blogs, tweets and kids have developed their own grammar. There are no rules. It just happens.
        > >>Mr. Gove also, it seems, wants every child in the country to study the subjects he liked at school.
        > >>He might well take a leaf out of TEFEL's book and make things a bit more learner centered.
        > >>If the kids want to learn about grammar, that's a different matter. But I can't see why you would, unless you're a linguist, a language learner, or a TEFEL teacher!
        > >>Also, I just did Mr. Gwynne's 'grammar quizz' on the Telegraph website
        > >>
        > >>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationquestions/9987757/Good-grammar-test-can-you-pass.html
        > >>
        > >>I had a problem with question 1 and question 10. I think they're silly. Question 3 I think is about lexis. Question 12 seems to me to be a Latin, not a grammar question, and if anyone could explain question 11, I'd be most grateful!
        > >>
        > >>Mat.
        > >>>
        > >>
        > >>--- In mailto:dogme%40yahoogroups.com, Dennis Newson <djn@> wrote:
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01c98k1
        > >>> --
        > >>>
        > >>> --
        > >>> *
        > >>>
        > >>> *Dennis Newson*
        > >>> Formerly : University of Osnabrueck, GERMANY
        > >>> Committee member | IATEFL: YLTSIG,Network Coordinator Teens (*T*)
        > >>>
        > >>> Committee Member IATEFL GISIG
        > >>>
        > >>> Winner British Council ELT 05 Team Innovation Award
        > >>>
        > >>> Personal homepage <http://www.dennisnewson.de/>
        > >>>
        > >>> Skype: *Osnacantab*
        > >>> Second Life: *Osnacantab Nesterov*
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (6) . Top ^
        > >>Visit Your Group
        > >>>
        > >>View All Topics
        > >>>
        > >>Create New Topic
        > >>>
        > >>4 New Members
        > >>>
        > >>We are making changes based on your feedback, Thank you !
        > >>Submit Feedback
        > >>>
        > >>The Yahoo! Groups Product Blog
        > >>Check it out!
        > >>>
        > >>GROUP FOOTER MESSAGE
        > >>To Post a message, send it to:   dogme@...
        > >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dogme-unsubscribe@...
        > >>
        > >>CHANGE SETTINGS
        > >>>
        > >>TERMS OF USE
        > >>>
        > >>UNSUBSCRIBE
        > >>>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.