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Re: [dogme] Irene's Fossilization Enigma

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  • Jeff Bragg
    Dear All, Just to add my tuppence-worth, I would like to say that I once had a student with the same problem - very good at fluency, but perpetuually tripping
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 1, 2006
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      Dear All,

      Just to add my tuppence-worth, I would like to say
      that I once had a student with the same problem - very
      good at fluency, but perpetuually tripping up over the
      same items of articles and verb tenses.

      Despite my marrying her, things have not improved
      much. Although her vocabulary and even accent have
      improved a lot over the past ten years, the above
      problems remain.

      I have made various attempts at rectifying things,
      including whipping on Fridays (moslem prerogative) and
      threatening to throw household objects at her when she
      makes too many mistakes (the psychological approach).
      But all to no avail.

      So now I'll try the approach that I feel I should have
      employed earlier, but was reluctant to do so for fear
      of being called an EFL fossil - drills. I like the
      idea mentioned earlier about taking commonly used
      nouns and building substitution drills around them, as
      this should take care of both the article and verb
      problems at the same time. I do hope so, anyway.

      If not, it's back to the whip - or maybe I should
      upgrade to a cat o'nine tails?.

      Jeff

      [NB - for those with a humour bypass, please keep your
      accusations of misogyny to yourselves]

      --- Dennis Newson <djn@...> wrote:

      > Definitely only Peter,
      >
      > (Something about the way gmail formatted the message
      > made me uncertain) I
      > didn't mean to mount my hobby horse Downwithgrammar,
      > and if the learners
      > herself wants to start using articles correctly,
      > it's right and proper that
      > you should try to help.
      >
      > Knowing that, mightn't it be an idea to start
      > working very concentratedly
      > (but in manageable bursts) with article usage?. How
      > about, with your
      > student, drawing up a list of her most commonly used
      > nouns, nouns she uses
      > or needs to use regularly.
      >
      > Working from the resulting list, work out how the
      > nouns behave with regard
      > to articles. (It would be ideal to work with a good
      > concordancer, but you
      > can supplement that with your words and her words.)
      >
      > If she is determined to get things correct, she
      > would probably accept some
      > drill-like work and if you are artful you could work
      > out some helpful drills
      >
      > Say something that is true/you think/you mean about
      > last night.
      >
      > You: Consternation!
      > She: There was consternation last night when.......
      >
      > You. Problem!
      > There was problem last night when.....
      >
      > You: Ovation!
      > She: There was an ovation etc.
      >
      > See what I mean?
      >
      > Cheers, definitely only Peter
      >
      > Surely only Dennis
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
      > removed]
      >
      >


      Jeff Bragg
      Full-time Teacher, Part-time Genius, and general Chalk-face Hero
      chalkfacehero@...



      ___________________________________________________________
      Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy and free. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.html
    • Dennis Newson
      Jeff, I also married a non-native. (Tut!Tut!), and perhaps that is why certain inaccuracies - like The news were interesting persist. (No Sir/Madam, I take
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 1, 2006
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        Jeff,

        I also married a non-native. (Tut!Tut!), and perhaps that is why certain
        inaccuracies - like 'The news were interesting' persist. (No Sir/Madam, I
        take your point but we are not talking here about my persistent mistakes in
        German).

        Seriously, I more than suspect that certain features of interlanguage are
        now ingrained like dirt and cannot be removed. This is most definitely the
        case with my German. Too late now.

        Dennis


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • diamond_fingerz
        Dear all, Many thanks for some really interesting ideas. In fact I was aware of the Stevick activity, both through post #19 and through Thornbury s Uncovering
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 1, 2006
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          Dear all,

          Many thanks for some really interesting ideas. In fact I was aware of
          the Stevick activity, both through post #19 and through Thornbury's
          Uncovering Grammar. But I'd not used it, mostly for the same reason as
          Julian - it's a bit artificial. My conversations with Irene have
          always been very flowing and enjoyable, and I don't want to stop that
          by saying "No, don't say what you think, just repeat what I said!" It
          seems better to just to record what we talk about and use that as our
          noticing activity. But certainly I'll be trying some of the other
          activities suggested.

          Peter
        • Diarmuid Fogarty
          Before you reject Stevick, allow me (once again, to bring in Guy Cook who suggests that artificiality is NOT a valid reason for rejecting an activity. In
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 1, 2006
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            Before you reject Stevick, allow me (once again, to bring in Guy Cook
            who suggests that artificiality is NOT a valid reason for rejecting
            an activity. In "Language Play, Language Learning" he puts forward
            the claims that artificial, repetitive, form focused activities are
            EXACTLY what learners need if the aim is successful acquisition. I've
            recently come across something by Littlewood where he argues that by
            taking up "precommunicative activities" we can help the students
            focus more on automacity and less on meaning. Once they have had this
            opportunity to get their heads aroud the language focus (whatever it
            might be...but most definitely NOT just grammar), they can move into
            a communicative activity where they can test their ability to produce
            this subskill/grammar/etc in "normal" conversation.

            Personally, I have yet to be convinced that we improve our learners'
            speaking by breaking it into lots of subskills and teaching them.
            Perhaps thoughts from list memebers (including any of us who have
            written books about the subject!) could help me make up my mind?
            Diarmuid
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Russell Kent
            Regarding pronunciation, I have recently taken on two groups of medical students at Maastricht University Hospiatal. I have been specifically asked to give
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 1, 2006
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              Regarding pronunciation, I have recently taken on two groups of medical
              students at Maastricht University Hospiatal. I have been specifically asked
              to give them opportunities to practice pronunciation of English medical
              terms. I plan to do it the old fashioned way, by giving them a model,
              drilling as a group and then individually. I have not done this for years,
              so it will be interesting to see how it turns out. I also plan to use a
              pronunciation chart to try to get them to focus on how the required sounds
              are actually made when they change the shape of their lips and move their
              tongues.



              Cheers,



              Russ



              _____

              From: dogme@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dogme@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Diarmuid Fogarty
              Sent: 02 November 2006 07:58
              To: dogme@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [dogme] Re: Irene's Fossilization Enigma



              Before you reject Stevick, allow me (once again, to bring in Guy Cook
              who suggests that artificiality is NOT a valid reason for rejecting
              an activity. In "Language Play, Language Learning" he puts forward
              the claims that artificial, repetitive, form focused activities are
              EXACTLY what learners need if the aim is successful acquisition. I've
              recently come across something by Littlewood where he argues that by
              taking up "precommunicative activities" we can help the students
              focus more on automacity and less on meaning. Once they have had this
              opportunity to get their heads aroud the language focus (whatever it
              might be...but most definitely NOT just grammar), they can move into
              a communicative activity where they can test their ability to produce
              this subskill/grammar/etc in "normal" conversation.

              Personally, I have yet to be convinced that we improve our learners'
              speaking by breaking it into lots of subskills and teaching them.
              Perhaps thoughts from list memebers (including any of us who have
              written books about the subject!) could help me make up my mind?
              Diarmuid
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • diamond_fingerz
              Hi Diarmuid, As I ve noted in my blog recently, I ve been beginning to doubt the whole authenticity thing lately too. I feel that if we limit ourselves to
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 2, 2006
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                Hi Diarmuid,

                As I've noted in my blog recently, I've been beginning to doubt the
                whole authenticity thing lately too. I feel that if we limit ourselves
                to discussing things that are relevant in the here-and-now of our
                students' lives, we limit ourselves unnecessarily and deny ourselves
                access to students' imaginations, and deny the students themselves
                feelings of confidence and understanding that activities like drills
                might provide (however much we may believe that those feelings will
                only be shortlived).
                In class tonight, I noticed for the first time that one of my
                students likes to repeat everything anyone says to her very quietly
                under her breath, even as she's preparing to reply to those things.
                She also does this if she's not being spoken to her directly. The same
                student asks me to repeat all the new words for that period at the end
                of every class, so she can repeat them. Clearly she finds these
                exercises beneficial. Who am I to tell her that they're not
                "authentic" enough for my classroom?
                I think my reason for not using the Stevick activity was similar -
                I didn't think it would fit that student. She loves to communicate.
                The whole repeating thing isn't her style - she'd get half way through
                and then some thought would occur to her and she'd be off, telling me
                about it. In this sense it WOULD be inauthentic, because it would be
                forcing our normal conversation down and avenue it would never
                naturally take. Whether this is vastly different from the above
                student, I'll leave up to you to decide...

                Peter
              • scott_thornbury
                ... What is ... Peter, with your permission can I use your letter on my Second Language Acquisition course here at SIT, Vermont? I thought it was a good
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 7, 2006
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                  > Yet none of these things seem to be making much difference.
                  What is
                  > the best way to fight fossilization? I worry that the more fluency
                  > work we do together, the worse the problem will get...
                  >
                  > Peter
                  >
                  Peter, with your permission can I use your letter on my Second
                  Language Acquisition course here at SIT, Vermont? I thought it was a
                  good example of the kind of dilemma that practising teachers are
                  regularly faced with, and on to which the findings of SLA research
                  throw some (but only some?)light. I thought I'd get the sts to
                  brainstorm a collective response (in groups - I also have three
                  Korean women in the class, which might enrich their joint thinking)
                  and even post it! I also thought I'd edit a selection of the dogme
                  responses, so that they could see what expert/experienced teachers
                  had to say (since few of them have much classroom experience).
                  That's why I'm posting this here - to let folks know what's going
                  on. Anyone object?
                  Scott
                • Peter Thwaites
                  Hi Scott, You re more than welcome to use the post in your course. My student, Irene, was delighted with the fact that so many people took the time to respond
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 7, 2006
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                    Hi Scott,

                    You're more than welcome to use the post in your course. My student, Irene, was delighted with the fact that so many people took the time to respond to her mistakes - she'll be absolutely stunned to find that they're now being discussed in an American university!
                    Please do let me know if your students come up with any interesting solutions.

                    Peter

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: scott_thornbury <sthornbury@...>
                    To: dogme@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, 8 November, 2006 3:51:25 AM
                    Subject: [dogme] Re: Irene's Fossilization Enigma













                    > Yet none of these things seem to be making much difference.

                    What is

                    > the best way to fight fossilization? I worry that the more fluency

                    > work we do together, the worse the problem will get...

                    >

                    > Peter

                    >

                    Peter, with your permission can I use your letter on my Second

                    Language Acquisition course here at SIT, Vermont? I thought it was a

                    good example of the kind of dilemma that practising teachers are

                    regularly faced with, and on to which the findings of SLA research

                    throw some (but only some?)light. I thought I'd get the sts to

                    brainstorm a collective response (in groups - I also have three

                    Korean women in the class, which might enrich their joint thinking)

                    and even post it! I also thought I'd edit a selection of the dogme

                    responses, so that they could see what expert/experienced teachers

                    had to say (since few of them have much classroom experience).

                    That's why I'm posting this here - to let folks know what's going

                    on. Anyone object?

                    Scott
















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                  • Russell Kent
                    Dear List Members, I am writing this to try and get some comments, feedback, help with a course I have to develop. I have been asked to develop a communication
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 13, 2006
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                      Dear List Members,



                      I am writing this to try and get some comments, feedback, help with a course
                      I have to develop.



                      I have been asked to develop a communication enhancement course for an
                      international military headquarters which has Native Speakers from the USA,
                      Canada and the UK. There are also Non Native Speakers from a further 13
                      European countries.



                      There are new arrivals every month, approximately 20 to 30. Some of them
                      are NS and some NNS. Some of the NNS need help with their language skills.
                      However, they have all ostensibly passed a language test in their own
                      country before arriving at the headquarters. Despite this, when it comes to
                      performing their military duties, their language skills do, in some
                      instances, hinder their ablility to perform their duties.



                      They are all aircrew and are required to listen, comprehend and react to all
                      kinds of radio communications to do with their job. The speakers they will
                      hear are both NS and NNS. The NS are from various parts of their respective
                      countries with varying dialects.



                      Some of the NNS also have pronunciation difficulties. Some of the NNS also
                      lack fluency.



                      There are new arrivals every month, from different countries with different
                      English capabilities.



                      I have in my head a rolling programme, covering a three month period. With
                      three weekly lessons, focusing on:



                      Listening - exposure to various dialects, firstly single speakers, then more
                      than one speaker and then with some kind of interference to duplicate radio
                      communications. In some instances, there may be four or five different
                      people on the same channel and the NNS has to pick out the message
                      applicable to their particular duty.



                      Pronunciation. Focus on the areas where students have problems. Use a
                      combination of a phonetic chart and drilling to explain how the sounds are
                      made and then allow them to practice the sounds.



                      Fluency. Give them opportunities to speak, and gradually increase the
                      pressure on them by introducing some kind of time limitations or
                      competition.



                      A little different to the areas that we normally discuss, but I would also
                      appreciate any input on the following:



                      This also applies to Native Speakers. I am trying to develop ways to get NS
                      to understand the power their linguistic ablity gives them and trying to get
                      them to moderate their speech patterns. Any ideas in this area would also
                      be welcome.



                      I hope that some of you may be able to give some feedback on thoughts for
                      the course and point out shortcomings that may be there.



                      Thanks in anticipation.



                      Russ Kent









                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Dennis Newson
                      Russ, Just a quick response. Much more is going to be involved, of course, than pronunciation - stress, intonation, elision, assimilation etc. such features
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 14, 2006
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                        Russ,

                        Just a quick response.

                        Much more is going to be involved, of course, than pronunciation - stress,
                        intonation, elision, assimilation etc. such features will also be critical.

                        I would have thought if you can gather together a collection of recordings
                        of the sort of online conversations you learners will eventually be involved
                        in that will be your most valuable resource as a course writer.

                        Best wishes,


                        Dennis


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Russell Kent
                        Hallo Denis and Rob. Dennis, Thanks for the input, I am actually trying to obtain tapes of such conversations. I think they will be quite formulaic and,
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 14, 2006
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                          Hallo Denis and Rob.



                          Dennis,



                          Thanks for the input, I am actually trying to obtain tapes of such
                          conversations. I think they will be quite formulaic and, hopefully, easier
                          for the students to learn 'rote' as it were.



                          Rob,



                          I don't know how well the video will go down.



                          Cheers,



                          Russ



                          _____

                          From: dogme@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dogme@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                          Dennis Newson
                          Sent: 14 November 2006 09:32
                          To: dogme@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [dogme] Help with course for military students.



                          Russ,

                          Just a quick response.

                          Much more is going to be involved, of course, than pronunciation - stress,
                          intonation, elision, assimilation etc. such features will also be critical.

                          I would have thought if you can gather together a collection of recordings
                          of the sort of online conversations you learners will eventually be involved
                          in that will be your most valuable resource as a course writer.

                          Best wishes,

                          Dennis

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Kevin Landry
                          organize a soccer game with teams being mixed NNS and NS on the same team. They ll learn to communicate and get to know each other. ... -- Kevin L. Landry, MA
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 14, 2006
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                            organize a soccer game with teams being mixed NNS and NS on the same team.
                            They'll learn to communicate and get to know each other.

                            On 15/11/06, Russell Kent <russkent@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hallo Denis and Rob.
                            >
                            > Dennis,
                            >
                            > Thanks for the input, I am actually trying to obtain tapes of such
                            > conversations. I think they will be quite formulaic and, hopefully, easier
                            > for the students to learn 'rote' as it were.
                            >
                            > Rob,
                            >
                            > I don't know how well the video will go down.
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            >
                            > Russ
                            >
                            > _____
                            >
                            > From: dogme@yahoogroups.com <dogme%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
                            > dogme@yahoogroups.com <dogme%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
                            > Dennis Newson
                            > Sent: 14 November 2006 09:32
                            > To: dogme@yahoogroups.com <dogme%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > Subject: Re: [dogme] Help with course for military students.
                            >
                            > Russ,
                            >
                            > Just a quick response.
                            >
                            > Much more is going to be involved, of course, than pronunciation - stress,
                            > intonation, elision, assimilation etc. such features will also be
                            > critical.
                            >
                            > I would have thought if you can gather together a collection of recordings
                            > of the sort of online conversations you learners will eventually be
                            > involved
                            > in that will be your most valuable resource as a course writer.
                            >
                            > Best wishes,
                            >
                            > Dennis
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            --
                            Kevin L. Landry, MA TESOL

                            Lecturer, Department of General Studies
                            Hongik University, Jochiwon Campus(A403-1), (F418)

                            Vice President
                            KOTESOL Cheongju Chapter
                            TED SIG Facilitator


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Gwen Cary
                            Russ, I took a quick read through the answers you received so far. I don t see where anyone has referred you to the following resources yet. Probably about
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 15, 2006
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                              Russ,
                              I took a quick read through the answers you received so far. I don't
                              see where anyone has referred you to the following resources yet.

                              Probably about two years ago I had a Colonel as a private student and
                              there was a discussion in Dogme about military English also. You can
                              try doing a search here in Dogme and see if something from back then
                              shows up.

                              The British Council has a site that was very useful to my student and
                              I. It has articles and exercises targeting military English.
                              http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/militaryenglish/

                              Dare I mention that Macmillian has material for military English if
                              you want to get some ideas. Although adopting the book would kind of
                              be "anti-Dogme-ish" They do have material in the series such as
                              specialized dictionaries and such.
                              http://www.campaignmilitaryenglish.com/index.htm

                              They have a collection of links to useful websites for military
                              English teachers at:
                              http://www.campaignmilitaryenglish.com/Web/index.htm

                              Hope this helps.

                              Gwen Cary



                              --- In dogme@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Kent" <russkent@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Dear List Members,
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I am writing this to try and get some comments, feedback, help with
                              a course
                              > I have to develop.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I have been asked to develop a communication enhancement course for an
                              > international military headquarters which has Native Speakers from
                              the USA,
                              > Canada and the UK. There are also Non Native Speakers from a further 13
                              > European countries.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > There are new arrivals every month, approximately 20 to 30. Some of
                              them
                              > are NS and some NNS. Some of the NNS need help with their language
                              skills.
                              > However, they have all ostensibly passed a language test in their own
                              > country before arriving at the headquarters. Despite this, when it
                              comes to
                              > performing their military duties, their language skills do, in some
                              > instances, hinder their ablility to perform their duties.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > They are all aircrew and are required to listen, comprehend and
                              react to all
                              > kinds of radio communications to do with their job. The speakers
                              they will
                              > hear are both NS and NNS. The NS are from various parts of their
                              respective
                              > countries with varying dialects.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Some of the NNS also have pronunciation difficulties. Some of the
                              NNS also
                              > lack fluency.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > There are new arrivals every month, from different countries with
                              different
                              > English capabilities.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I have in my head a rolling programme, covering a three month
                              period. With
                              > three weekly lessons, focusing on:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Listening - exposure to various dialects, firstly single speakers,
                              then more
                              > than one speaker and then with some kind of interference to
                              duplicate radio
                              > communications. In some instances, there may be four or five different
                              > people on the same channel and the NNS has to pick out the message
                              > applicable to their particular duty.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Pronunciation. Focus on the areas where students have problems. Use a
                              > combination of a phonetic chart and drilling to explain how the
                              sounds are
                              > made and then allow them to practice the sounds.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Fluency. Give them opportunities to speak, and gradually increase the
                              > pressure on them by introducing some kind of time limitations or
                              > competition.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > A little different to the areas that we normally discuss, but I
                              would also
                              > appreciate any input on the following:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > This also applies to Native Speakers. I am trying to develop ways
                              to get NS
                              > to understand the power their linguistic ablity gives them and
                              trying to get
                              > them to moderate their speech patterns. Any ideas in this area
                              would also
                              > be welcome.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I hope that some of you may be able to give some feedback on
                              thoughts for
                              > the course and point out shortcomings that may be there.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Thanks in anticipation.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Russ Kent
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Russell Kent
                              Hallo, Cannot do anything like this. Cheers Russ _____ From: dogme@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dogme@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Landry Sent: 14 November
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 15, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hallo,



                                Cannot do anything like this.



                                Cheers



                                Russ



                                _____

                                From: dogme@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dogme@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                Kevin Landry
                                Sent: 14 November 2006 23:13
                                To: dogme@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [dogme] Help with course for military students.



                                organize a soccer game with teams being mixed NNS and NS on the same team.
                                They'll learn to communicate and get to know each other.

                                On 15/11/06, Russell Kent <russkent@home. <mailto:russkent%40home.nl> nl>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Hallo Denis and Rob.
                                >
                                > Dennis,
                                >
                                > Thanks for the input, I am actually trying to obtain tapes of such
                                > conversations. I think they will be quite formulaic and, hopefully, easier
                                > for the students to learn 'rote' as it were.
                                >
                                > Rob,
                                >
                                > I don't know how well the video will go down.
                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                >
                                > Russ
                                >
                                > _____
                                >
                                > From: dogme@yahoogroups. <mailto:dogme%40yahoogroups.com> com
                                <dogme%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
                                > dogme@yahoogroups. <mailto:dogme%40yahoogroups.com> com
                                <dogme%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
                                > Dennis Newson
                                > Sent: 14 November 2006 09:32
                                > To: dogme@yahoogroups. <mailto:dogme%40yahoogroups.com> com
                                <dogme%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > Subject: Re: [dogme] Help with course for military students.
                                >
                                > Russ,
                                >
                                > Just a quick response.
                                >
                                > Much more is going to be involved, of course, than pronunciation - stress,
                                > intonation, elision, assimilation etc. such features will also be
                                > critical.
                                >
                                > I would have thought if you can gather together a collection of recordings
                                > of the sort of online conversations you learners will eventually be
                                > involved
                                > in that will be your most valuable resource as a course writer.
                                >
                                > Best wishes,
                                >
                                > Dennis
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                --
                                Kevin L. Landry, MA TESOL

                                Lecturer, Department of General Studies
                                Hongik University, Jochiwon Campus(A403-1), (F418)

                                Vice President
                                KOTESOL Cheongju Chapter
                                TED SIG Facilitator

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • nickbilbrough
                                Hi Russ, How about building in lots of activities where there is observation of different people performing the different kinds of speaking tasks that they
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 15, 2006
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                                  Hi Russ,

                                  How about building in lots of activities where there is observation
                                  of different people performing the different kinds of speaking tasks
                                  that they need to do in their work. So for example, in mixed NS and
                                  NNS groups...

                                  2 NS perform a speaking task and the others observe (and make
                                  notes?). Then encourage those observing to comment on language use
                                  etc and possibly board some of this language.

                                  Then do the same with two NNS and again follow this up with a
                                  discussion and reflection stage on the language that was used.

                                  Then do the same task again with one NS and one NNS. ...and more
                                  language discussion.

                                  These stages might of course be more usefully set in a differnet
                                  order.

                                  I just thought it might be a useful way of encouraging everyone to
                                  reflect on how they are using language.

                                  Nick


                                  --- In dogme@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Kent" <russkent@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Dear List Members,
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I am writing this to try and get some comments, feedback, help with
                                  a course
                                  > I have to develop.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I have been asked to develop a communication enhancement course for
                                  an
                                  > international military headquarters which has Native Speakers from
                                  the USA,
                                  > Canada and the UK. There are also Non Native Speakers from a
                                  further 13
                                  > European countries.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > There are new arrivals every month, approximately 20 to 30. Some
                                  of them
                                  > are NS and some NNS. Some of the NNS need help with their language
                                  skills.
                                  > However, they have all ostensibly passed a language test in their
                                  own
                                  > country before arriving at the headquarters. Despite this, when it
                                  comes to
                                  > performing their military duties, their language skills do, in some
                                  > instances, hinder their ablility to perform their duties.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > They are all aircrew and are required to listen, comprehend and
                                  react to all
                                  > kinds of radio communications to do with their job. The speakers
                                  they will
                                  > hear are both NS and NNS. The NS are from various parts of their
                                  respective
                                  > countries with varying dialects.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Some of the NNS also have pronunciation difficulties. Some of the
                                  NNS also
                                  > lack fluency.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > There are new arrivals every month, from different countries with
                                  different
                                  > English capabilities.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I have in my head a rolling programme, covering a three month
                                  period. With
                                  > three weekly lessons, focusing on:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Listening - exposure to various dialects, firstly single speakers,
                                  then more
                                  > than one speaker and then with some kind of interference to
                                  duplicate radio
                                  > communications. In some instances, there may be four or five
                                  different
                                  > people on the same channel and the NNS has to pick out the message
                                  > applicable to their particular duty.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Pronunciation. Focus on the areas where students have problems.
                                  Use a
                                  > combination of a phonetic chart and drilling to explain how the
                                  sounds are
                                  > made and then allow them to practice the sounds.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Fluency. Give them opportunities to speak, and gradually increase
                                  the
                                  > pressure on them by introducing some kind of time limitations or
                                  > competition.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > A little different to the areas that we normally discuss, but I
                                  would also
                                  > appreciate any input on the following:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > This also applies to Native Speakers. I am trying to develop ways
                                  to get NS
                                  > to understand the power their linguistic ablity gives them and
                                  trying to get
                                  > them to moderate their speech patterns. Any ideas in this area
                                  would also
                                  > be welcome.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I hope that some of you may be able to give some feedback on
                                  thoughts for
                                  > the course and point out shortcomings that may be there.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Thanks in anticipation.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Russ Kent
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
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