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RE: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Coarse surface....topological aspect

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  • joan raven
    Thanks for the answer Mike, u have been a big inspiration for me! But the strange thing is I get sometimes a heavy coarseting in my 50 micron objects. And more
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 3, 2013
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      Thanks for the answer Mike, u have been a big inspiration for me!

      But the strange thing is I get sometimes a heavy coarseting in my 50 micron objects. And more strange is I printed one object that it's super smooth, but using the same setting that I use always.

      I will make a test tomorrow: Printing 2 same models, but with different amount of decimation, and will see how it affect to this "topological maps"...If someone tried before, please share your experience!!!!

      To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
      From: MikeJ@...
      Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 17:11:49 -0600
      Subject: Re: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Coarse surface....topological aspect

       
      That's "topological" artifact is a result of both a good detailed camera
      shot (that object is less than 4" long) and the fact it is printed (and
      was sliced for ) 100 micron XY resolution.
      The object is built from 100 micron "bricks" AND these bricks can not be
      moved side to side, they MUST fall into a fixed 100 micron grid.
      If an object looks smoother it's because the resolution is blurred.

      And, as jwanett mentions, the model's mesh smoothness matters too.

      MikeJ

      On 4/3/2013 4:58 PM, jwanett wrote:
      > Or maybe it depends of the model, the amount of decimation????
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "jwanett" <jonichk@...> wrote:
      >> Hi everyone!!!
      >>
      >> At first sorry for my english, i'll try to explain myself as good as I can.
      >>
      >>
      >> My printer is working really well, on the mechanical side...But I have a problem that I thing it's common in this kind of printers:
      >>
      >> - Coarse aspect on the surface, looking like the topological maps.Not related to the z layers. It's more something related to the xy plane.
      >>
      >> At the beggining I thought it was related to the resolution of the slices (I use png slices), but now having more high resolution slices, the problem is still there. Today I noticed this in a B9Creator model as well:
      >>
      >> http://b9creator.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/rdkfe-IMG_2519.jpg
      >> It's related to the algorithm routine that uses the slicer??? or it´s more a thing of the resolution of your projector???
      >> There are a way for improve this kind of effect???
      >>
      >>
      >> Now I'm printing with an SVG from slicer, let's see if it's less coarsy than the slices that I get from NettFabb Free.
      >>
      >>
      >> Hope this makes sense!!
      >>
      >>
      >> Cheers to evryone from Barcelona!!!
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      "Measure Twice, Cut Once"
      http://www.B9Creations.com


    • Michael Joyce
      That is strange, typically higher resolution will result in smaller building blocks and give better results. You saw the whale at 100 microns, here s a figure
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 3, 2013
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        That is strange, typically higher resolution will result in smaller building blocks and give better results.
        You saw the whale at 100 microns, here's a figure at 75:  http://b9creator.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/0qs5y-knightupclose.jpg
        It's hard to tell without side by side comparison, but the figure is smoother (smaller voxels).


        On 4/3/2013 5:36 PM, joan raven wrote:
        Thanks for the answer Mike, u have been a big inspiration for me!

        But the strange thing is I get sometimes a heavy coarseting in my 50 micron objects. And more strange is I printed one object that it's super smooth, but using the same setting that I use always.

        I will make a test tomorrow: Printing 2 same models, but with different amount of decimation, and will see how it affect to this "topological maps"...If someone tried before, please share your experience!!!!

        To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
        From: MikeJ@...
        Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 17:11:49 -0600
        Subject: Re: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Coarse surface....topological aspect

         
        That's "topological" artifact is a result of both a good detailed camera
        shot (that object is less than 4" long) and the fact it is printed (and
        was sliced for ) 100 micron XY resolution.
        The object is built from 100 micron "bricks" AND these bricks can not be
        moved side to side, they MUST fall into a fixed 100 micron grid.
        If an object looks smoother it's because the resolution is blurred.

        And, as jwanett mentions, the model's mesh smoothness matters too.

        MikeJ

        On 4/3/2013 4:58 PM, jwanett wrote:
        > Or maybe it depends of the model, the amount of decimation????
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "jwanett" <jonichk@...> wrote:
        >> Hi everyone!!!
        >>
        >> At first sorry for my english, i'll try to explain myself as good as I can.
        >>
        >>
        >> My printer is working really well, on the mechanical side...But I have a problem that I thing it's common in this kind of printers:
        >>
        >> - Coarse aspect on the surface, looking like the topological maps.Not related to the z layers. It's more something related to the xy plane.
        >>
        >> At the beggining I thought it was related to the resolution of the slices (I use png slices), but now having more high resolution slices, the problem is still there. Today I noticed this in a B9Creator model as well:
        >>
        >> http://b9creator.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/rdkfe-IMG_2519.jpg
        >> It's related to the algorithm routine that uses the slicer??? or it´s more a thing of the resolution of your projector???
        >> There are a way for improve this kind of effect???
        >>
        >>
        >> Now I'm printing with an SVG from slicer, let's see if it's less coarsy than the slices that I get from NettFabb Free.
        >>
        >>
        >> Hope this makes sense!!
        >>
        >>
        >> Cheers to evryone from Barcelona!!!
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        "Measure Twice, Cut Once"
        http://www.B9Creations.com



        -- 
        "Measure Twice, Cut Once"
        http://www.B9Creations.com
      • joan raven
        The weird thing is this model that is completely smooth that I get from my printer... (That now i m realizing the polycount is much higher....maybe this
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 3, 2013
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          The weird thing is this model that is completely smooth that I get from my printer...

          (That now i'm realizing the polycount is much higher....maybe this affects???)

          STRANGE!!!!!!!


          To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
          From: MikeJ@...
          Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 17:45:33 -0600
          Subject: Re: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Coarse surface....topological aspect

           
          That is strange, typically higher resolution will result in smaller building blocks and give better results.
          You saw the whale at 100 microns, here's a figure at 75:  http://b9creator.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/0qs5y-knightupclose.jpg
          It's hard to tell without side by side comparison, but the figure is smoother (smaller voxels).



          On 4/3/2013 5:36 PM, joan raven wrote:
          Thanks for the answer Mike, u have been a big inspiration for me!

          But the strange thing is I get sometimes a heavy coarseting in my 50 micron objects. And more strange is I printed one object that it's super smooth, but using the same setting that I use always.

          I will make a test tomorrow: Printing 2 same models, but with different amount of decimation, and will see how it affect to this "topological maps"...If someone tried before, please share your experience!!!!

          To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
          From: MikeJ@...
          Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 17:11:49 -0600
          Subject: Re: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Coarse surface....topological aspect

           
          That's "topological" artifact is a result of both a good detailed camera
          shot (that object is less than 4" long) and the fact it is printed (and
          was sliced for ) 100 micron XY resolution.
          The object is built from 100 micron "bricks" AND these bricks can not be
          moved side to side, they MUST fall into a fixed 100 micron grid.
          If an object looks smoother it's because the resolution is blurred.

          And, as jwanett mentions, the model's mesh smoothness matters too.

          MikeJ

          On 4/3/2013 4:58 PM, jwanett wrote:
          > Or maybe it depends of the model, the amount of decimation????
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "jwanett" <jonichk@...> wrote:
          >> Hi everyone!!!
          >>
          >> At first sorry for my english, i'll try to explain myself as good as I can.
          >>
          >>
          >> My printer is working really well, on the mechanical side...But I have a problem that I thing it's common in this kind of printers:
          >>
          >> - Coarse aspect on the surface, looking like the topological maps.Not related to the z layers. It's more something related to the xy plane.
          >>
          >> At the beggining I thought it was related to the resolution of the slices (I use png slices), but now having more high resolution slices, the problem is still there. Today I noticed this in a B9Creator model as well:
          >>
          >> http://b9creator.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/rdkfe-IMG_2519.jpg
          >> It's related to the algorithm routine that uses the slicer??? or it´s more a thing of the resolution of your projector???
          >> There are a way for improve this kind of effect???
          >>
          >>
          >> Now I'm printing with an SVG from slicer, let's see if it's less coarsy than the slices that I get from NettFabb Free.
          >>
          >>
          >> Hope this makes sense!!
          >>
          >>
          >> Cheers to evryone from Barcelona!!!
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          "Measure Twice, Cut Once"
          http://www.B9Creations.com



          -- 
          "Measure Twice, Cut Once"
          http://www.B9Creations.com

        • Michael Joyce
          Yes, polygon count will make a big differences. Can t print a smooth curve if the surface is made out of just a few big o triangles! ... -- Measure Twice,
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 3, 2013
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            Yes, polygon count will make a big differences.  Can't print a smooth curve if the surface is made out of just a few big'o triangles!


            On 4/3/2013 6:23 PM, joan raven wrote:
            The weird thing is this model that is completely smooth that I get from my printer...

            (That now i'm realizing the polycount is much higher....maybe this affects???)

            STRANGE!!!!!!!


            To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
            From: MikeJ@...
            Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 17:45:33 -0600
            Subject: Re: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Coarse surface....topological aspect

             
            That is strange, typically higher resolution will result in smaller building blocks and give better results.
            You saw the whale at 100 microns, here's a figure at 75:  http://b9creator.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/0qs5y-knightupclose.jpg
            It's hard to tell without side by side comparison, but the figure is smoother (smaller voxels).



            On 4/3/2013 5:36 PM, joan raven wrote:
            Thanks for the answer Mike, u have been a big inspiration for me!

            But the strange thing is I get sometimes a heavy coarseting in my 50 micron objects. And more strange is I printed one object that it's super smooth, but using the same setting that I use always.

            I will make a test tomorrow: Printing 2 same models, but with different amount of decimation, and will see how it affect to this "topological maps"...If someone tried before, please share your experience!!!!

            To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
            From: MikeJ@...
            Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 17:11:49 -0600
            Subject: Re: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Coarse surface....topological aspect

             
            That's "topological" artifact is a result of both a good detailed camera
            shot (that object is less than 4" long) and the fact it is printed (and
            was sliced for ) 100 micron XY resolution.
            The object is built from 100 micron "bricks" AND these bricks can not be
            moved side to side, they MUST fall into a fixed 100 micron grid.
            If an object looks smoother it's because the resolution is blurred.

            And, as jwanett mentions, the model's mesh smoothness matters too.

            MikeJ

            On 4/3/2013 4:58 PM, jwanett wrote:
            > Or maybe it depends of the model, the amount of decimation????
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "jwanett" <jonichk@...> wrote:
            >> Hi everyone!!!
            >>
            >> At first sorry for my english, i'll try to explain myself as good as I can.
            >>
            >>
            >> My printer is working really well, on the mechanical side...But I have a problem that I thing it's common in this kind of printers:
            >>
            >> - Coarse aspect on the surface, looking like the topological maps.Not related to the z layers. It's more something related to the xy plane.
            >>
            >> At the beggining I thought it was related to the resolution of the slices (I use png slices), but now having more high resolution slices, the problem is still there. Today I noticed this in a B9Creator model as well:
            >>
            >> http://b9creator.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/rdkfe-IMG_2519.jpg
            >> It's related to the algorithm routine that uses the slicer??? or it´s more a thing of the resolution of your projector???
            >> There are a way for improve this kind of effect???
            >>
            >>
            >> Now I'm printing with an SVG from slicer, let's see if it's less coarsy than the slices that I get from NettFabb Free.
            >>
            >>
            >> Hope this makes sense!!
            >>
            >>
            >> Cheers to evryone from Barcelona!!!
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            "Measure Twice, Cut Once"
            http://www.B9Creations.com



            -- 
            "Measure Twice, Cut Once"
            http://www.B9Creations.com


            -- 
            "Measure Twice, Cut Once"
            http://www.B9Creations.com
          • joan raven
            but It will be more logical if there are a faceted (triangulated) curve, just to show this triangulation on the model??? To:
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 3, 2013
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              but It will be more logical if there are a faceted (triangulated) curve, just to show this triangulation on the model???




              To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
              From: MikeJ@...
              Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 18:27:18 -0600
              Subject: Re: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Coarse surface....topological aspect

               
              Yes, polygon count will make a big differences.  Can't print a smooth curve if the surface is made out of just a few big'o triangles!



              On 4/3/2013 6:23 PM, joan raven wrote:
              The weird thing is this model that is completely smooth that I get from my printer...

              (That now i'm realizing the polycount is much higher....maybe this affects???)

              STRANGE!!!!!!!


              To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
              From: MikeJ@...
              Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 17:45:33 -0600
              Subject: Re: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Coarse surface....topological aspect

               
              That is strange, typically higher resolution will result in smaller building blocks and give better results.
              You saw the whale at 100 microns, here's a figure at 75:  http://b9creator.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/0qs5y-knightupclose.jpg
              It's hard to tell without side by side comparison, but the figure is smoother (smaller voxels).



              On 4/3/2013 5:36 PM, joan raven wrote:
              Thanks for the answer Mike, u have been a big inspiration for me!

              But the strange thing is I get sometimes a heavy coarseting in my 50 micron objects. And more strange is I printed one object that it's super smooth, but using the same setting that I use always.

              I will make a test tomorrow: Printing 2 same models, but with different amount of decimation, and will see how it affect to this "topological maps"...If someone tried before, please share your experience!!!!

              To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
              From: MikeJ@...
              Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 17:11:49 -0600
              Subject: Re: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Coarse surface....topological aspect

               
              That's "topological" artifact is a result of both a good detailed camera
              shot (that object is less than 4" long) and the fact it is printed (and
              was sliced for ) 100 micron XY resolution.
              The object is built from 100 micron "bricks" AND these bricks can not be
              moved side to side, they MUST fall into a fixed 100 micron grid.
              If an object looks smoother it's because the resolution is blurred.

              And, as jwanett mentions, the model's mesh smoothness matters too.

              MikeJ

              On 4/3/2013 4:58 PM, jwanett wrote:
              > Or maybe it depends of the model, the amount of decimation????
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "jwanett" <jonichk@...> wrote:
              >> Hi everyone!!!
              >>
              >> At first sorry for my english, i'll try to explain myself as good as I can.
              >>
              >>
              >> My printer is working really well, on the mechanical side...But I have a problem that I thing it's common in this kind of printers:
              >>
              >> - Coarse aspect on the surface, looking like the topological maps.Not related to the z layers. It's more something related to the xy plane.
              >>
              >> At the beggining I thought it was related to the resolution of the slices (I use png slices), but now having more high resolution slices, the problem is still there. Today I noticed this in a B9Creator model as well:
              >>
              >> http://b9creator.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/rdkfe-IMG_2519.jpg
              >> It's related to the algorithm routine that uses the slicer??? or it´s more a thing of the resolution of your projector???
              >> There are a way for improve this kind of effect???
              >>
              >>
              >> Now I'm printing with an SVG from slicer, let's see if it's less coarsy than the slices that I get from NettFabb Free.
              >>
              >>
              >> Hope this makes sense!!
              >>
              >>
              >> Cheers to evryone from Barcelona!!!
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >

              --
              "Measure Twice, Cut Once"
              http://www.B9Creations.com



              -- 
              "Measure Twice, Cut Once"
              http://www.B9Creations.com


              -- 
              "Measure Twice, Cut Once"
              http://www.B9Creations.com

            • Graham Stabler
              Correct, you would expect a faceted surface (still made up of stair cases) I suspect you are a little out of focus with your smooth models. Graham
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 4, 2013
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                Correct, you would expect a faceted surface (still made up of stair cases)

                I suspect you are a little out of focus with your smooth models.

                Graham


                On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 1:45 AM, joan raven <jonichk@...> wrote:
                 

                but It will be more logical if there are a faceted (triangulated) curve, just to show this triangulation on the model???
              • Graham Stabler
                And could that be because your resin level has gone down slightly?
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 4, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  And could that be because your resin level has gone down slightly?

                  On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Graham Stabler <grezmos@...> wrote:
                  I suspect you are a little out of focus with your smooth models.

                • Francis Leach
                  Dear Solidprinters. The result from the B9 creator looks very good. Even the Professionals Shapeways have their limitations. I attach for you general
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 4, 2013
                  Dear Solidprinters.

                  The result from the B9 creator looks very good.

                  Even the Professionals "Shapeways" have their limitations.

                  I attach for you general interest  shots of commercial offering from them which I term "as rough as a bears Ar*e" 

                  There should be standards quoted for the surface finish of flat surfaces so one can assess the suitability of the numerous solidprinting machines and associated results. 

                  The best machines on the market are the Solidscape wax printer and the Envisiontec Prefactory. 

                  It appears that the B9 machine is getting their and I hope the Formlab liberates good results.

                  regards

                  Francis Leach


                  On 3 April 2013 23:56, jwanett <jonichk@...> wrote:
                   

                  Hi everyone!!!

                  At first sorry for my english, i'll try to explain myself as good as I can.

                  My printer is working really well, on the mechanical side...But I have a problem that I thing it's common in this kind of printers:

                  - Coarse aspect on the surface, looking like the topological maps.Not related to the z layers. It's more something related to the xy plane.

                  At the beggining I thought it was related to the resolution of the slices (I use png slices), but now having more high resolution slices, the problem is still there. Today I noticed this in a B9Creator model as well:

                  http://b9creator.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/rdkfe-IMG_2519.jpg
                  It's related to the algorithm routine that uses the slicer??? or it´s more a thing of the resolution of your projector???
                  There are a way for improve this kind of effect???

                  Now I'm printing with an SVG from slicer, let's see if it's less coarsy than the slices that I get from NettFabb Free.

                  Hope this makes sense!!

                  Cheers to evryone from Barcelona!!!




                  --
                  Regards

                  Francis Leach

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