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PCB as heated build bed

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  • Kevin Impson
    Hi Everyone, I have been looking and buying components for a 3D printer. I have searched through Wiki s, forum s, blog s and more to no avail so I come to you
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 5, 2012
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      Hi Everyone,

      I have been looking and buying components for a 3D printer.

      I have searched through Wiki's, forum's, blog's and more to no avail so I come to you all.

      I want to etch a heater onto a 12x8 inch PCB for use as build beds for my 3D printer.

      The 3D printer's production space is 20x12x12 inches.

      I'm using ABS only. I am also heating the build space in the printer so as to reduce the bow string effect.

      Would anybody have an idea as to how to tackle this small problem?

      Any idea is welcome, please.

      Thank you in advance.

      Best Regards,

      Kevin I.
    • Francis Leach
      Kevin Consider using a Peltier effect heater. Find them on ebay : TEC1-12710 TEC Thermoelectric Cooler Peltier 154W 10A 40mm : item 310413350611 use a copper
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 5, 2012
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        Kevin

        Consider using a Peltier effect heater. Find them on ebay : TEC1-12710 TEC Thermoelectric Cooler Peltier 154W 10A 40mm : item 310413350611
        use a copper brass or aluminium build platform. The device can be used to heat or cool the item, just reverse polarity.  
        I do not know you optimum temperature but consider using 220V Aquarium Fish Tank Digital LCD Temperature Controller Thermostat -50-110℃ : item 230844623307

        You will need a 12V dc power supply but a old computer power supply over 300W may offer you a suitable solution 

        I love cheap solutions


        Francis


        On 5 December 2012 08:56, Kevin Impson <internetgiest@...> wrote:
         

        Hi Everyone,

        I have been looking and buying components for a 3D printer.

        I have searched through Wiki's, forum's, blog's and more to no avail so I come to you all.

        I want to etch a heater onto a 12x8 inch PCB for use as build beds for my 3D printer.

        The 3D printer's production space is 20x12x12 inches.

        I'm using ABS only. I am also heating the build space in the printer so as to reduce the bow string effect.

        Would anybody have an idea as to how to tackle this small problem?

        Any idea is welcome, please.

        Thank you in advance.

        Best Regards,

        Kevin I.




        --
        Regards

        Francis Leach


      • Jon Elson
        ... Gee, that s the complex way to go! You can also get self-adhesive heating elements from a number of sources. i got some surplus a number of years ago.
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 5, 2012
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          Francis Leach wrote:
          >
          >
          > Kevin
          >
          > Consider using a Peltier effect heater. Find them on ebay : TEC1-12710
          > TEC Thermoelectric Cooler Peltier 154W 10A 40mm : item 310413350611
          Gee, that's the complex way to go! You can also get self-adhesive
          heating elements
          from a number of sources. i got some surplus a number of years ago.
          Just peel
          off the cover paper and stick it onto aluminum sheet, and connect to a
          heat controller.

          Jon
        • Francis Leach
          Hi Jon I agree that your scheme is much simpler but my offering is temperature controlled with settable digital readout. Cost around £19 delivered to your
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 5, 2012
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            Hi Jon

            I agree that your scheme is much simpler but my offering is temperature controlled with settable digital readout. Cost around £19 delivered to your door.

            How about some sourcing details and a specification? 


            On 5 December 2012 18:37, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:
             

            Francis Leach wrote:
            >
            >
            > Kevin
            >
            > Consider using a Peltier effect heater. Find them on ebay : TEC1-12710
            > TEC Thermoelectric Cooler Peltier 154W 10A 40mm : item 310413350611
            Gee, that's the complex way to go! You can also get self-adhesive
            heating elements
            from a number of sources. i got some surplus a number of years ago.
            Just peel
            off the cover paper and stick it onto aluminum sheet, and connect to a
            heat controller.

            Jon




            --
            Regards

            Francis Leach


          • Graham Stabler
            Don t forget that you also need a big heat sink to efficiently harvest heat from the surroundings as it is just a pump. A 250w cartridge heater is 2 quid on
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 5, 2012
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              Don't forget that you also need a big heat sink to efficiently harvest heat from the surroundings as it is just a pump.

              A 250w cartridge heater is 2 quid on eBay and a good alternative to the slightly costly silicone pads.

              These could be used with the same controller but it might be wise to go with a totally low voltage system unless you know what you are doing.

              To return to the original poster, a number of people have just used some nichrome wire and taped it to the underside of the bed with kapton tape, I've even seen a few people use power resistors screwed underneath.

              Graham



              On Wednesday, December 5, 2012, Francis Leach wrote:
               

              Hi Jon


              I agree that your scheme is much simpler but my offering is temperature controlled with settable digital readout. Cost around £19 delivered to your door.

              How about some sourcing details and a specification? 


              On 5 December 2012 18:37, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:
               

              Francis Leach wrote:
              >
              >
              > Kevin
              >
              > Consider using a Peltier effect heater. Find them on ebay : TEC1-12710
              > TEC Thermoelectric Cooler Peltier 154W 10A 40mm : item 310413350611
              Gee, that's the complex way to go! You can also get self-adhesive
              heating elements
              from a number of sources. i got some surplus a number of years ago.
              Just peel
              off the cover paper and stick it onto aluminum sheet, and connect to a
              heat controller.

              Jon




              --
              Regards

              Francis Leach


            • Francis Leach
              Hi Graham The Peltier device is not a pump, it is a Low voltage solid state heater or a cooler simply by changing the polarity. The Copper, Brass or aluminium
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 5, 2012
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                Hi Graham

                The Peltier device is not a pump, it is a Low voltage solid state heater or a cooler simply by changing the polarity. The Copper, Brass or aluminium build platform is the attached heat sink.
                The 12VDC supply is switched on or off by open circuiting the yellow and grey leads on the computer power supply via the relay on the temperature controller. All at low voltage except for the mains powered temperature controller that is designed for purpose.
                Simples !



                On 5 December 2012 21:05, Graham Stabler <grezmos@...> wrote:
                 

                Don't forget that you also need a big heat sink to efficiently harvest heat from the surroundings as it is just a pump.


                A 250w cartridge heater is 2 quid on eBay and a good alternative to the slightly costly silicone pads.

                These could be used with the same controller but it might be wise to go with a totally low voltage system unless you know what you are doing.

                To return to the original poster, a number of people have just used some nichrome wire and taped it to the underside of the bed with kapton tape, I've even seen a few people use power resistors screwed underneath.

                Graham



                On Wednesday, December 5, 2012, Francis Leach wrote:
                 

                Hi Jon


                I agree that your scheme is much simpler but my offering is temperature controlled with settable digital readout. Cost around £19 delivered to your door.

                How about some sourcing details and a specification? 


                On 5 December 2012 18:37, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:
                 

                Francis Leach wrote:
                >
                >
                > Kevin
                >
                > Consider using a Peltier effect heater. Find them on ebay : TEC1-12710
                > TEC Thermoelectric Cooler Peltier 154W 10A 40mm : item 310413350611
                Gee, that's the complex way to go! You can also get self-adhesive
                heating elements
                from a number of sources. i got some surplus a number of years ago.
                Just peel
                off the cover paper and stick it onto aluminum sheet, and connect to a
                heat controller.

                Jon




                --
                Regards

                Francis Leach





                --
                Regards

                Francis Leach


              • Nuri
                Take a look at this web site for 3D printer related temperature controllers. ... so I come to you all.
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 5, 2012
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                  Take a look at this web site  for 3D printer related temperature controllers.



                  --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Impson <internetgiest@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Everyone,
                  >
                  > I have been looking and buying components for a 3D printer.
                  >
                  > I have searched through Wiki's, forum's, blog's and more to no avail so I come to you all.
                  >
                  > I want to etch a heater onto a 12x8 inch PCB for use as build beds for my 3D printer.
                  >
                  > The 3D printer's production space is 20x12x12 inches.
                  >
                  > I'm using ABS only. I am also heating the build space in the printer so as to reduce the bow string effect.
                  >
                  > Would anybody have an idea as to how to tackle this small problem?
                  >
                  > Any idea is welcome, please.
                  >
                  > Thank you in advance.
                  >
                  >
                  > Best Regards,
                  >
                  > Kevin I.
                  >
                • Benjamin Mahony
                  Sorry to disagree, but a peltier device is a heat pump, just with no moving parts. It does not magicaly cool, it moves (pumps) the heat away from the cool
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 5, 2012
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                    Sorry to disagree, but a peltier device is a heat pump, just with no moving parts.  It does not magicaly cool, it moves (pumps) the heat away from the cool side, they are very inefficient, so make better heaters...

                    But so does a electrical short..

                    Ben M


                    On 6/12/2012 9:20 AM, Francis Leach wrote:
                     

                    Hi Graham


                    The Peltier device is not a pump, it is a Low voltage solid state heater or a cooler simply by changing the polarity. The Copper, Brass or aluminium build platform is the attached heat sink.
                    The 12VDC supply is switched on or off by open circuiting the yellow and grey leads on the computer power supply via the relay on the temperature controller. All at low voltage except for the mains powered temperature controller that is designed for purpose.
                    Simples !



                    On 5 December 2012 21:05, Graham Stabler <grezmos@...> wrote:
                     

                    Don't forget that you also need a big heat sink to efficiently harvest heat from the surroundings as it is just a pump.


                    A 250w cartridge heater is 2 quid on eBay and a good alternative to the slightly costly silicone pads.

                    These could be used with the same controller but it might be wise to go with a totally low voltage system unless you know what you are doing.

                    To return to the original poster, a number of people have just used some nichrome wire and taped it to the underside of the bed with kapton tape, I've even seen a few people use power resistors screwed underneath.

                    Graham



                    On Wednesday, December 5, 2012, Francis Leach wrote:
                     

                    Hi Jon


                    I agree that your scheme is much simpler but my offering is temperature controlled with settable digital readout. Cost around £19 delivered to your door.

                    How about some sourcing details and a specification? 


                    On 5 December 2012 18:37, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:
                     
                    Francis Leach wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Kevin
                    >
                    > Consider using a Peltier effect heater. Find them on ebay : TEC1-12710
                    > TEC Thermoelectric Cooler Peltier 154W 10A 40mm : item 310413350611
                    Gee, that's the complex way to go! You can also get self-adhesive
                    heating elements
                    from a number of sources. i got some surplus a number of years ago.
                    Just peel
                    off the cover paper and stick it onto aluminum sheet, and connect to a
                    heat controller.

                    Jon



                    --
                    Regards

                    Francis Leach





                    --
                    Regards

                    Francis Leach



                  • Graham
                    As Ben has stated they are heat pumps and use semiconductor junctions to move heat from one side to the other, moving heat away from something is hard hence
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 5, 2012
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                      As Ben has stated they are heat pumps and use semiconductor junctions to move heat from one side to the other, moving heat away from something is hard hence their use as coolers, though they can heat there does not seem much point given the ease in which heat can be created with a ... Heater.

                      Graham



                      On 5 Dec 2012, at 22:20, Francis Leach <francisleach@...> wrote:

                       

                      Hi Graham


                      The Peltier device is not a pump, it is a Low voltage solid state heater or a cooler simply by changing the polarity. The Copper, Brass or aluminium build platform is the attached heat sink.
                      The 12VDC supply is switched on or off by open circuiting the yellow and grey leads on the computer power supply via the relay on the temperature controller. All at low voltage except for the mains powered temperature controller that is designed for purpose.
                      Simples !



                      On 5 December 2012 21:05, Graham Stabler <grezmos@...> wrote:
                       

                      Don't forget that you also need a big heat sink to efficiently harvest heat from the surroundings as it is just a pump.


                      A 250w cartridge heater is 2 quid on eBay and a good alternative to the slightly costly silicone pads.

                      These could be used with the same controller but it might be wise to go with a totally low voltage system unless you know what you are doing.

                      To return to the original poster, a number of people have just used some nichrome wire and taped it to the underside of the bed with kapton tape, I've even seen a few people use power resistors screwed underneath.

                      Graham



                      On Wednesday, December 5, 2012, Francis Leach wrote:
                       

                      Hi Jon


                      I agree that your scheme is much simpler but my offering is temperature controlled with settable digital readout. Cost around £19 delivered to your door.

                      How about some sourcing details and a specification? 


                      On 5 December 2012 18:37, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:
                       

                      Francis Leach wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Kevin
                      >
                      > Consider using a Peltier effect heater. Find them on ebay : TEC1-12710
                      > TEC Thermoelectric Cooler Peltier 154W 10A 40mm : item 310413350611
                      Gee, that's the complex way to go! You can also get self-adhesive
                      heating elements
                      from a number of sources. i got some surplus a number of years ago.
                      Just peel
                      off the cover paper and stick it onto aluminum sheet, and connect to a
                      heat controller.

                      Jon




                      --
                      Regards

                      Francis Leach





                      --
                      Regards

                      Francis Leach


                    • Jon Elson
                      ...
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 5, 2012
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                        Francis Leach wrote:
                        >
                        > I agree that your scheme is much simpler but my offering is
                        > temperature controlled with settable digital readout. Cost around £19
                        > delivered to your door.
                        >
                        > How about some sourcing details and a specification? a
                        <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Adhesive-Foil-Heating-Elements-10W-36-x-1-5-10-Watts-120V-Reptile-New-/300829209046?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460ad171d6>
                        You'd still need the temperature controller with this, but those can
                        also be picked
                        up on eBay.

                        Jon
                      • Francis Leach
                        Jon. Thanks for the references. The simplest solutions are sometimes the best. In the UK we use 240Vac , it s a killer if you do not know what you are doing.
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 6, 2012
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                          Jon.

                          Thanks for  the references. The simplest solutions are sometimes the best.

                          In the UK we use 240Vac , it's a killer if you do not know what you are doing.

                          By the way the "enable"  power on a computer power supply is the green and grey cables , not the yellow and grey as stated in my earlier  post. sorry.
                          They are a very useful power supply.


                          On 6 December 2012 03:03, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:
                          Francis Leach wrote:
                          >
                          > I agree that your scheme is much simpler but my offering is
                          > temperature controlled with settable digital readout. Cost around £19
                          > delivered to your door.
                          >
                          > How about some sourcing details and a specification? a
                          <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Adhesive-Foil-Heating-Elements-10W-36-x-1-5-10-Watts-120V-Reptile-New-/300829209046?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460ad171d6>
                          You'd still need the temperature controller with this, but those can
                          also be picked
                          up on eBay.

                          Jon


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                          --
                          Regards

                          Francis Leach


                        • bstott2002
                          See the RepRap guys - Heated Bed http://reprap.org/wiki/Heated_Bed Heated Bed Index
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 6, 2012
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                            See the RepRap  guys -

                            Heated Bed

                            http://reprap.org/wiki/Heated_Bed 

                            Heated Bed Index
                            http://reprap.org/wiki/Category:Heated_Bed 

                            Development ideas/resources
                            http://reprap.org/wiki/Development 



                            --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Graham Stabler <grezmos@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Don't forget that you also need a big heat sink to efficiently harvest heat
                            > from the surroundings as it is just a pump.
                            >
                            > A 250w cartridge heater is 2 quid on eBay and a good alternative to the
                            > slightly costly silicone pads.
                            >
                            > These could be used with the same controller but it might be wise to go
                            > with a totally low voltage system unless you know what you are doing.
                            >
                            > To return to the original poster, a number of people have just used some
                            > nichrome wire and taped it to the underside of the bed with kapton tape,
                            > I've even seen a few people use power resistors screwed underneath.
                            >
                            > Graham
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > On Wednesday, December 5, 2012, Francis Leach wrote:
                            >
                            > > **
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hi Jon
                            > >
                            > > I agree that your scheme is much simpler but my offering is temperature
                            > > controlled with settable digital readout. Cost around £19 delivered to your
                            > > door.
                            > >
                            > > How about some sourcing details and a specification?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On 5 December 2012 18:37, Jon Elson elson@... wrote:
                            > >
                            > >> **
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> Francis Leach wrote:
                            > >> >
                            > >> >
                            > >> > Kevin
                            > >> >
                            > >> > Consider using a Peltier effect heater. Find them on ebay : TEC1-12710
                            > >> > TEC Thermoelectric Cooler Peltier 154W 10A 40mm : item 310413350611
                            > >> Gee, that's the complex way to go! You can also get self-adhesive
                            > >> heating elements
                            > >> from a number of sources. i got some surplus a number of years ago.
                            > >> Just peel
                            > >> off the cover paper and stick it onto aluminum sheet, and connect to a
                            > >> heat controller.
                            > >>
                            > >> Jon
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --
                            > > Regards
                            > >
                            > > Francis Leach
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • R J Hamlett
                            ... No, Graham is completely right. The Peltier device is a thermoelectic heat pump. Used as a heater, you need a heatsink to harvest heat as he says. It is
                            Message 13 of 14 , Dec 6, 2012
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                              On 06/12/2012 16:11, diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                              > Hi Graham
                              >
                              > The Peltier device is not a pump, it is a Low voltage solid state heater or
                              > a cooler simply by changing the polarity. The Copper, Brass or aluminium
                              > build platform is the attached heat sink.
                              > The 12VDC supply is switched on or off by open circuiting the yellow and
                              > grey leads on the computer power supply via the relay on the temperature
                              > controller. All at low voltage except for the mains powered temperature
                              > controller that is designed for purpose.
                              > Simples !
                              >
                              No, Graham is completely right.
                              The Peltier device is a thermoelectic heat pump. Used as a heater, you
                              need a heatsink to harvest heat as he says. It is not as bad used as a
                              heater, as when used as a cooler. For the latter, you need a heatsink to
                              dissipate both the heat being pumped, and the heat generated by the unit
                              itself. Going the other way as a heater, quite a bit of the heat comes
                              from the inefficiency of the device itself.

                              Best Wishes
                              >
                              > On 5 December 2012 21:05, Graham Stabler<grezmos@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >> **
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Don't forget that you also need a big heat sink to efficiently harvest
                              >> heat from the surroundings as it is just a pump.
                              >>
                              >> A 250w cartridge heater is 2 quid on eBay and a good alternative to the
                              >> slightly costly silicone pads.
                              >>
                              >> These could be used with the same controller but it might be wise to go
                              >> with a totally low voltage system unless you know what you are doing.
                              >>
                              >> To return to the original poster, a number of people have just used some
                              >> nichrome wire and taped it to the underside of the bed with kapton tape,
                              >> I've even seen a few people use power resistors screwed underneath.
                              >>
                              >> Graham
                            • Michael Joyce
                              If you enjoy math, you will appreciate George s newly opened Museum in New York! http://youtu.be/jK7xPo1YXzY MikeJ
                              Message 14 of 14 , Dec 14, 2012
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                                If you enjoy math, you will appreciate George's newly opened Museum in
                                New York!
                                http://youtu.be/jK7xPo1YXzY

                                MikeJ
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