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Re: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: 3D Systems Files Patent Infringement Suit Against Formlabs and Kickstarter

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  • Graham Stabler
    No I don t think it is support structures, I think all of this occurs in the depth in which the resin can be cured. Of course it is 90% jibberish so I may be
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 21, 2012

      No I don't think it is support structures, I think all of this occurs in the depth in which the resin can be cured. Of course it is 90% jibberish so I may be wrong.

      The drawings are amazing, pages and pages of boxes.

      Graham


      On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Fernando Muñiz <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
       

      Actually they mention patent US5597520 in their complaint (although also asserting that they have others)

      "A method and apparatus for making high resolution objects by stereolithography utilizing low resolution materials which are limited by their inability to form unsupported structures of desired thinness and/or their inability to form coatings of desired thinness. Data manipulation techniques, based on layer comparisons, are used to control exposure in order to delay solidification of the material on at least portions of at least some cross-sections until higher layers of material are deposited so as to allow down-facing features of the object to be located at a depth in the building material which is equal to or exceeds a minimum cure depth that can effectively be used for solidifying these features. Similar data manipulations are used to ensure minimum reliable coating thicknesses exist, above previously solidified material, before attempting solidification of a next layer."

      http://www.google.com/patents/US5597520

      Am I right to think this is a patent describing support structures?

    • Fernando Muñiz
      It really is almost comical to read, but I guess here is the gist of the patent s claims: 1. An improved method of stereolithographically forming a
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 21, 2012
        It really is almost comical to read, but I guess here is the gist of the patent's claims:

        1. An improved method of stereolithographically forming a three-dimensional object by forming cross-sectional layers of said object from a material capable of physical transformation upon exposure to synergistic stimulation comprising the steps of receiving data descriptive of said cross-sectional layers, forming said cross-sectional layers by selectively exposing said material to said synergistic stimulation according to said data descriptive of said cross-sectional layers to build up the three-dimensional object layer-by-layer, the improvement comprising the steps of:

        modifying data descriptive of at least a portion of at least one cross-sectional layer by copying said data from a first cross-section to a second cross-section; and
        using said modified data in forming said three-dimensional object.

        Which basically says "print 3D objects layer by layer using data from a crossection layers of the object"
        As *I Am Not A Lawyer* I don't know if this means that they are using a wide blanket patent covering every possible design.


        On 11/21/2012 01:44 PM, Graham Stabler wrote:
         

        No I don't think it is support structures, I think all of this occurs in the depth in which the resin can be cured. Of course it is 90% jibberish so I may be wrong.

        The drawings are amazing, pages and pages of boxes.

        Graham


        On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Fernando Muñiz <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
         

        Actually they mention patent US5597520 in their complaint (although also asserting that they have others)

        "A method and apparatus for making high resolution objects by stereolithography utilizing low resolution materials which are limited by their inability to form unsupported structures of desired thinness and/or their inability to form coatings of desired thinness. Data manipulation techniques, based on layer comparisons, are used to control exposure in order to delay solidification of the material on at least portions of at least some cross-sections until higher layers of material are deposited so as to allow down-facing features of the object to be located at a depth in the building material which is equal to or exceeds a minimum cure depth that can effectively be used for solidifying these features. Similar data manipulations are used to ensure minimum reliable coating thicknesses exist, above previously solidified material, before attempting solidification of a next layer."

        http://www.google.com/patents/US5597520

        Am I right to think this is a patent describing support structures?


      • afogassa
        BTW, is the Zcorp or MIT patent on the powder 3d printer expired?Did 3D whatever reaply for it?
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 21, 2012
          BTW, is the Zcorp or MIT patent on the powder 3d printer expired?Did 3D whatever reaply for it?

          --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "arthur2shedsj" <arthur2shedsj@...> wrote:
          >
          > http://www.3ders.org/articles/20121121-3d-systems-files-patent-infringement-lawsuit-against-formlabs-and-kickstarter.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=twitter
          >
          > Has anyone heard of any patent suits filed in any European courts yet over Form1 or any other new 3dp startups or crowdfunding sites?
          >
        • Graham Stabler
          I think it is more complicated than that, the point of the patent is to process the data so sometimes you are actually finishing the curing of the previous
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 21, 2012
            I think it is more complicated than that, the point of the patent is to process the data so sometimes you are actually finishing the curing of the previous layer while curing the current one. I can't really see how this patent was infringed but then I couldn't on the last patent they filed for and won.

            Graham



            On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Fernando Muñiz <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
             

            It really is almost comical to read, but I guess here is the gist of the patent's claims:

            1. An improved method of stereolithographically forming a three-dimensional object by forming cross-sectional layers of said object from a material capable of physical transformation upon exposure to synergistic stimulation comprising the steps of receiving data descriptive of said cross-sectional layers, forming said cross-sectional layers by selectively exposing said material to said synergistic stimulation according to said data descriptive of said cross-sectional layers to build up the three-dimensional object layer-by-layer, the improvement comprising the steps of:

            modifying data descriptive of at least a portion of at least one cross-sectional layer by copying said data from a first cross-section to a second cross-section; and
            using said modified data in forming said three-dimensional object.

            Which basically says "print 3D objects layer by layer using data from a crossection layers of the object"
            As *I Am Not A Lawyer* I don't know if this means that they are using a wide blanket patent covering every possible design.

          • Francis Leach
            Guys I record that recently one of our group kindly directed us to a paper that described the merits of multi short duration exposure of the resin using
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 21, 2012
              Guys

              I record that recently one of our group kindly directed us to a paper that described the merits of multi short duration exposure of the resin using different masks at the same lamina position in order to smooth out the step transition in the discrete pixel generated transitions, but I think the paper was relatively recent so not part of any 3DS patent.

              It appears to me that they have tried to tie up a patent based on their computational expertise they have is selectively arranging slices and the avoidance of voids and separated isolated volumes. Good luck to them

              Francis



              On 21 November 2012 12:54, Fernando Muñiz <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
               

              It really is almost comical to read, but I guess here is the gist of the patent's claims:

              1. An improved method of stereolithographically forming a three-dimensional object by forming cross-sectional layers of said object from a material capable of physical transformation upon exposure to synergistic stimulation comprising the steps of receiving data descriptive of said cross-sectional layers, forming said cross-sectional layers by selectively exposing said material to said synergistic stimulation according to said data descriptive of said cross-sectional layers to build up the three-dimensional object layer-by-layer, the improvement comprising the steps of:

              modifying data descriptive of at least a portion of at least one cross-sectional layer by copying said data from a first cross-section to a second cross-section; and
              using said modified data in forming said three-dimensional object.

              Which basically says "print 3D objects layer by layer using data from a crossection layers of the object"
              As *I Am Not A Lawyer* I don't know if this means that they are using a wide blanket patent covering every possible design.


              On 11/21/2012 01:44 PM, Graham Stabler wrote:
               

              No I don't think it is support structures, I think all of this occurs in the depth in which the resin can be cured. Of course it is 90% jibberish so I may be wrong.

              The drawings are amazing, pages and pages of boxes.

              Graham


              On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Fernando Muñiz <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
               

              Actually they mention patent US5597520 in their complaint (although also asserting that they have others)

              "A method and apparatus for making high resolution objects by stereolithography utilizing low resolution materials which are limited by their inability to form unsupported structures of desired thinness and/or their inability to form coatings of desired thinness. Data manipulation techniques, based on layer comparisons, are used to control exposure in order to delay solidification of the material on at least portions of at least some cross-sections until higher layers of material are deposited so as to allow down-facing features of the object to be located at a depth in the building material which is equal to or exceeds a minimum cure depth that can effectively be used for solidifying these features. Similar data manipulations are used to ensure minimum reliable coating thicknesses exist, above previously solidified material, before attempting solidification of a next layer."

              http://www.google.com/patents/US5597520

              Am I right to think this is a patent describing support structures?





              --
              Regards

              Francis Leach


            • arthur2shedsj
              ... Suitably vague and I wonder what Formlabs was thinking and really planning all along. They have ties to MIT and Harvard and must have gotten some legal
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 21, 2012
                --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Graham Stabler <grezmos@...> wrote:
                >
                > I had a quick look at the patent, seems suitably vague. 3DS have obviously
                > done some great things in the field but it seems to me they are trying to
                > create a monopoly.
                >
                > I suspect that the other strategy of creating a better machine was not one
                > they would want to proceed as people might start buying something small and
                > not bother with the really big expensive beasts.
                >
                > Graham

                "Suitably vague" and I wonder what Formlabs was thinking and really planning all along. They have ties to MIT and Harvard and must have gotten some legal feedback from their patent lawyers as they went through their multiple protos (was it 7 or 8?) before deciding on going with the Form1.

                Formlabs obviously felt comfortable enough to move ahead and sell the Form1 in the US. At the same time 3d Systems wants control of as much of the industry as they can as well as the profits. They certainly don't do this by innovation or by putting much effort into R&D. They only appear to be doing this by acquiring other companies or through lawsuits.
              • phife54@ymail.com
                So the patent they infringed on was for the one referenced by Fernando? I initially thought it was going to be for the tilt release. I m planning on using tilt
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 21, 2012
                  So the patent they infringed on was for the one referenced by Fernando? I initially thought it was going to be for the tilt release. I'm planning on using tilt release on my machine. I'm looking forward to hear how this will all play out, I was hoping to go along a similar route as Formlabs with kickstarter and a well engineered product. This will defiantly affect that now.

                  --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Francis Leach <francisleach@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Guys
                  >
                  > I record that recently one of our group kindly directed us to a paper that
                  > described the merits of multi short duration exposure of the resin using
                  > different masks at the same lamina position in order to smooth out the step
                  > transition in the discrete pixel generated transitions, but I think the
                  > paper was relatively recent so not part of any 3DS patent.
                  >
                  > It appears to me that they have tried to tie up a patent based on their
                  > computational expertise they have is selectively arranging slices and the
                  > avoidance of voids and separated isolated volumes. Good luck to them
                  >
                  > Francis
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On 21 November 2012 12:54, Fernando Muñiz <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > It really is almost comical to read, but I guess here is the gist of the
                  > > patent's claims:
                  > >
                  > > 1. An improved method of stereolithographically forming a
                  > > three-dimensional object by forming cross-sectional layers of said object
                  > > from a material capable of physical transformation upon exposure to
                  > > synergistic stimulation comprising the steps of receiving data descriptive
                  > > of said cross-sectional layers, forming said cross-sectional layers by
                  > > selectively exposing said material to said synergistic stimulation
                  > > according to said data descriptive of said cross-sectional layers to build
                  > > up the three-dimensional object layer-by-layer, the improvement comprising
                  > > the steps of:
                  > > modifying data descriptive of at least a portion of at least one
                  > > cross-sectional layer by copying said data from a first cross-section to a
                  > > second cross-section; and using said modified data in forming said
                  > > three-dimensional object.
                  > >
                  > > Which basically says "print 3D objects layer by layer using data from a
                  > > crossection layers of the object"
                  > > As *I Am Not A Lawyer* I don't know if this means that they are using a
                  > > wide blanket patent covering every possible design.
                  > >
                  > > On 11/21/2012 01:44 PM, Graham Stabler wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > No I don't think it is support structures, I think all of this occurs in
                  > > the depth in which the resin can be cured. Of course it is 90% jibberish so
                  > > I may be wrong.
                  > >
                  > > The drawings are amazing, pages and pages of boxes.
                  > >
                  > > Graham
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Fernando Muñiz <spacecaptain@...>wrote:
                  > >
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Actually they mention patent US5597520 in their complaint (although
                  > >> also asserting that they have others)
                  > >>
                  > >> "A method and apparatus for making high resolution objects by
                  > >> stereolithography utilizing low resolution materials which are limited by
                  > >> their inability to form unsupported structures of desired thinness and/or
                  > >> their inability to form coatings of desired thinness. Data manipulation
                  > >> techniques, based on layer comparisons, are used to control exposure in
                  > >> order to delay solidification of the material on at least portions of at
                  > >> least some cross-sections until higher layers of material are deposited so
                  > >> as to allow down-facing features of the object to be located at a depth in
                  > >> the building material which is equal to or exceeds a minimum cure depth
                  > >> that can effectively be used for solidifying these features. Similar data
                  > >> manipulations are used to ensure minimum reliable coating thicknesses
                  > >> exist, above previously solidified material, before attempting
                  > >> solidification of a next layer."
                  > >>
                  > >> http://www.google.com/patents/US5597520
                  > >>
                  > >> Am I right to think this is a patent describing support structures?
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Regards
                  >
                  > Francis Leach
                  >
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