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rotary mechanism for separating print

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  • skm1099
    Consider this idea for separating a print from the top plate: Have the build plate be a series of (say 1/16 thick) plates on edge, and 2 pins going through
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 24, 2012
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      Consider this idea for separating a print from the top plate:

      Have the build plate be a series of (say 1/16" thick) plates on edge, and 2 pins going through all of them. the pins would have eccentric places, like a cam shaft in a car, that when activated, would move *every*other*plate* in the platform in a small circular motion, allowing the sets of plates to rotate so that every other plate breaks free of the print. every other plate would be stationary, and the alternate ones moved in a rotary motion to release the part.

      It would look a little like the way an escalator's step mesh at the ends of the escalator, but with full 360 deg rotary actuation instead of "sliding" into each other like escalator steps do at the top.

      I don't think a mechanism like that is patented by current patents, but someone who knows more would have to be the judge of that.

      A similar mechanism is used in a 1940's toaster, that I have here, and a rotary motion is used to lift up a vertically standing piece of bread,and move it forward in an arc, on some thin metal rails, then set it down till the next rotation, then does that again. takes about a minute to do a slice, with a variable speed motor to get the toast lighter or darker (more time, or less time in toaster).

      You can google that type of toaster to see an idea of the motion generated, and how it is different than sliding or tipping that I see talked about here as being under patents.

      There are a couple of other methods of camming the two sets of plates apart, but by doing the circular camming at both ends, it might avoid the patented methods of tipping and sliding, etc.--if I understand what you guys are saying.

      Another method of camming, instead of pins, would be to use a 4 bar linkage at each end to generate the circular motion.

      I'm a toolmaker, not a patent attorney.

      It could be activated by a lever, by hand, or surely somebody could make a version to be activated by a stepper/gear motor--imagine a swinging basket to catch your part, a stepper motor driven release device, and then being able to print more than one print after one another without having to be there each time to manually separate each print!

      If I need to explain this better, I can hand sketch this idea and post a picture of the sketch, but I have never posted a picture, so if somebody wants it, maybe they can show me how.
    • Benjamin Mahony
      Imagine using all that for the vat bottom, just with a thin layer of Sylgaurd over top to make it leak proof and all made out of transparent material.... Ben
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 24, 2012
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        Imagine using all that for the vat bottom, just with a thin layer of Sylgaurd over top to make it leak proof and all made out of transparent material....

        Ben



        On 25/10/2012 9:57 AM, skm1099 wrote:
         

        Consider this idea for separating a print from the top plate:

        Have the build plate be a series of (say 1/16" thick) plates on edge, and 2 pins going through all of them. the pins would have eccentric places, like a cam shaft in a car, that when activated, would move *every*other*plate* in the platform in a small circular motion, allowing the sets of plates to rotate so that every other plate breaks free of the print. every other plate would be stationary, and the alternate ones moved in a rotary motion to release the part.

        It would look a little like the way an escalator's step mesh at the ends of the escalator, but with full 360 deg rotary actuation instead of "sliding" into each other like escalator steps do at the top.

        I don't think a mechanism like that is patented by current patents, but someone who knows more would have to be the judge of that.

        A similar mechanism is used in a 1940's toaster, that I have here, and a rotary motion is used to lift up a vertically standing piece of bread,and move it forward in an arc, on some thin metal rails, then set it down till the next rotation, then does that again. takes about a minute to do a slice, with a variable speed motor to get the toast lighter or darker (more time, or less time in toaster).

        You can google that type of toaster to see an idea of the motion generated, and how it is different than sliding or tipping that I see talked about here as being under patents.

        There are a couple of other methods of camming the two sets of plates apart, but by doing the circular camming at both ends, it might avoid the patented methods of tipping and sliding, etc.--if I understand what you guys are saying.

        Another method of camming, instead of pins, would be to use a 4 bar linkage at each end to generate the circular motion.

        I'm a toolmaker, not a patent attorney.

        It could be activated by a lever, by hand, or surely somebody could make a version to be activated by a stepper/gear motor--imagine a swinging basket to catch your part, a stepper motor driven release device, and then being able to print more than one print after one another without having to be there each time to manually separate each print!

        If I need to explain this better, I can hand sketch this idea and post a picture of the sketch, but I have never posted a picture, so if somebody wants it, maybe they can show me how.


      • Graham Stabler
        I think you have misunderstood the issue being discussed. The detachment of the part from the build plate at the end of a print is not an issue, you just slide
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 24, 2012
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          I think you have misunderstood the issue being discussed. The detachment of the part from the build plate at the end of a print is not an issue, you just slide something underneath.

          The issue is each layer sticking to the transparent vat bottom after exposure. Partially due to adhesion, partly due to surface tension. This issue applies only to from the bottom (FTB) type machines and a few less common FTT machines that place a window on the fluid surface.

          Graham



          On Wednesday, October 24, 2012, skm1099 wrote:
           

          Consider this idea for separating a print from the top plate:

          Have the build plate be a series of (say 1/16" thick) plates on edge, and 2 pins going through all of them. the pins would have eccentric places, like a cam shaft in a car, that when activated, would move *every*other*plate* in the platform in a small circular motion, allowing the sets of plates to rotate so that every other plate breaks free of the print. every other plate would be stationary, and the alternate ones moved in a rotary motion to release the part.

          It would look a little like the way an escalator's step mesh at the ends of the escalator, but with full 360 deg rotary actuation instead of "sliding" into each other like escalator steps do at the top.

          I don't think a mechanism like that is patented by current patents, but someone who knows more would have to be the judge of that.

          A similar mechanism is used in a 1940's toaster, that I have here, and a rotary motion is used to lift up a vertically standing piece of bread,and move it forward in an arc, on some thin metal rails, then set it down till the next rotation, then does that again. takes about a minute to do a slice, with a variable speed motor to get the toast lighter or darker (more time, or less time in toaster).

          You can google that type of toaster to see an idea of the motion generated, and how it is different than sliding or tipping that I see talked about here as being under patents.

          There are a couple of other methods of camming the two sets of plates apart, but by doing the circular camming at both ends, it might avoid the patented methods of tipping and sliding, etc.--if I understand what you guys are saying.

          Another method of camming, instead of pins, would be to use a 4 bar linkage at each end to generate the circular motion.

          I'm a toolmaker, not a patent attorney.

          It could be activated by a lever, by hand, or surely somebody could make a version to be activated by a stepper/gear motor--imagine a swinging basket to catch your part, a stepper motor driven release device, and then being able to print more than one print after one another without having to be there each time to manually separate each print!

          If I need to explain this better, I can hand sketch this idea and post a picture of the sketch, but I have never posted a picture, so if somebody wants it, maybe they can show me how.

        • Benjamin Mahony
          but not every other plate but more in a Mexican wave motion. So that a peeling action is produced. P.S. Is the term Mexican wave offensive or unknown to
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 24, 2012
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            but not every other plate but more in a Mexican wave motion.  So that a peeling action is produced.

            P.S. Is the term Mexican wave offensive or unknown to people from other countries (I'm an Australian) I mean no offence.

            Ben Mahony

            On 25/10/2012 9:57 AM, skm1099 wrote:
             

            Consider this idea for separating a print from the top plate:

            Have the build plate be a series of (say 1/16" thick) plates on edge, and 2 pins going through all of them. the pins would have eccentric places, like a cam shaft in a car, that when activated, would move *every*other*plate* in the platform in a small circular motion, allowing the sets of plates to rotate so that every other plate breaks free of the print. every other plate would be stationary, and the alternate ones moved in a rotary motion to release the part.

            It would look a little like the way an escalator's step mesh at the ends of the escalator, but with full 360 deg rotary actuation instead of "sliding" into each other like escalator steps do at the top.

            I don't think a mechanism like that is patented by current patents, but someone who knows more would have to be the judge of that.

            A similar mechanism is used in a 1940's toaster, that I have here, and a rotary motion is used to lift up a vertically standing piece of bread,and move it forward in an arc, on some thin metal rails, then set it down till the next rotation, then does that again. takes about a minute to do a slice, with a variable speed motor to get the toast lighter or darker (more time, or less time in toaster).

            You can google that type of toaster to see an idea of the motion generated, and how it is different than sliding or tipping that I see talked about here as being under patents.

            There are a couple of other methods of camming the two sets of plates apart, but by doing the circular camming at both ends, it might avoid the patented methods of tipping and sliding, etc.--if I understand what you guys are saying.

            Another method of camming, instead of pins, would be to use a 4 bar linkage at each end to generate the circular motion.

            I'm a toolmaker, not a patent attorney.

            It could be activated by a lever, by hand, or surely somebody could make a version to be activated by a stepper/gear motor--imagine a swinging basket to catch your part, a stepper motor driven release device, and then being able to print more than one print after one another without having to be there each time to manually separate each print!

            If I need to explain this better, I can hand sketch this idea and post a picture of the sketch, but I have never posted a picture, so if somebody wants it, maybe they can show me how.


          • Graham Stabler
            The main issue is keeping it transparent. See archive for my ideas for index matched fluid filled channels. And no, I don t think the term Mexican wave is
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 24, 2012
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              The main issue is keeping it transparent. See archive for my ideas for index matched fluid filled channels.

              And no, I don't think the term Mexican wave is offensive and it is known at least in UK

              Graham


              On Thursday, October 25, 2012, Benjamin Mahony wrote:
               

              but not every other plate but more in a Mexican wave motion.  So that a peeling action is produced.

              P.S. Is the term Mexican wave offensive or unknown to people from other countries (I'm an Australian) I mean no offence.

              Ben Mahony

              On 25/10/2012 9:57 AM, skm1099 wrote:
               

              Consider this idea for separating a print from the top plate:

              Have the build plate be a series of (say 1/16" thick) plates on edge, and 2 pins going through all of them. the pins would have eccentric places, like a cam shaft in a car, that when activated, would move *every*other*plate* in the platform in a small circular motion, allowing the sets of plates to rotate so that every other plate breaks free of the print. every other plate would be stationary, and the alternate ones moved in a rotary motion to release the part.

              It would look a little like the way an escalator's step mesh at the ends of the escalator, but with full 360 deg rotary actuation instead of "sliding" into each other like escalator steps do at the top.

              I don't think a mechanism like that is patented by current patents, but someone who knows more would have to be the judge of that.

              A similar mechanism is used in a 1940's toaster, that I have here, and a rotary motion is used to lift up a vertically standing piece of bread,and move it forward in an arc, on some thin metal rails, then set it down till the next rotation, then does that again. takes about a minute to do a slice, with a variable speed motor to get the toast lighter or darker (more time, or less time in toaster).

              You can google that type of toaster to see an idea of the motion generated, and how it is different than sliding or tipping that I see talked about here as being under patents.

              There are a couple of other methods of camming the two sets of plates apart, but by doing the circular camming at both ends, it might avoid the patented methods of tipping and sliding, etc.--if I understand what you guys are saying.

              Another method of camming, instead of pins, would be to use a 4 bar linkage at each end to generate the circular motion.

              I'm a toolmaker, not a patent attorney.

              It could be activated by a lever, by hand, or surely somebody could make a version to be activated by a stepper/gear motor--imagine a swinging basket to catch your part, a stepper motor driven release device, and then being able to print more than one print after one another without having to be there each time to manually separate each print!

              If I need to explain this better, I can hand sketch this idea and post a picture of the sketch, but I have never posted a picture, so if somebody wants it, maybe they can show me how.


            • Paolo Velcich
              the device you re talking about is named Toast-O-Lator and it became a sort of a cult. Still I didn t catch your idea completely, but the principle is well
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 24, 2012
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                the device you're talking about is named Toast-O-Lator and it became a sort of a cult.

                Still I didn't catch your idea completely, but the principle is well understood and interesting.

                 

                You can find something about the Toat-O-Lator here:

                http://www.jitterbuzz.com/indtol.html

                http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4557.0

                 

                 

                From: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com [mailto:diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skm1099
                Sent: giovedì 25 ottobre 2012 02:58
                To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] rotary mechanism for separating print

                 

                 

                Consider this idea for separating a print from the top plate:

                Have the build plate be a series of (say 1/16" thick) plates on edge, and 2 pins going through all of them. the pins would have eccentric places, like a cam shaft in a car, that when activated, would move *every*other*plate* in the platform in a small circular motion, allowing the sets of plates to rotate so that every other plate breaks free of the print. every other plate would be stationary, and the alternate ones moved in a rotary motion to release the part.

                It would look a little like the way an escalator's step mesh at the ends of the escalator, but with full 360 deg rotary actuation instead of "sliding" into each other like escalator steps do at the top.

                I don't think a mechanism like that is patented by current patents, but someone who knows more would have to be the judge of that.

                A similar mechanism is used in a 1940's toaster, that I have here, and a rotary motion is used to lift up a vertically standing piece of bread,and move it forward in an arc, on some thin metal rails, then set it down till the next rotation, then does that again. takes about a minute to do a slice, with a variable speed motor to get the toast lighter or darker (more time, or less time in toaster).

                You can google that type of toaster to see an idea of the motion generated, and how it is different than sliding or tipping that I see talked about here as being under patents.

                There are a couple of other methods of camming the two sets of plates apart, but by doing the circular camming at both ends, it might avoid the patented methods of tipping and sliding, etc.--if I understand what you guys are saying.

                Another method of camming, instead of pins, would be to use a 4 bar linkage at each end to generate the circular motion.

                I'm a toolmaker, not a patent attorney.

                It could be activated by a lever, by hand, or surely somebody could make a version to be activated by a stepper/gear motor--imagine a swinging basket to catch your part, a stepper motor driven release device, and then being able to print more than one print after one another without having to be there each time to manually separate each print!

                If I need to explain this better, I can hand sketch this idea and post a picture of the sketch, but I have never posted a picture, so if somebody wants it, maybe they can show me how.

              • thebarryfish
                Make the bottom of the tank a semi-rigid membrane supported only on edges. Lifting the build part would naturally bow the tank bottom upward and peel the
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 25, 2012
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                  Make the bottom of the tank a semi-rigid membrane supported only on edges. Lifting the build part would naturally bow the tank bottom upward and peel the part features from the edge(s).

                  Additional help could come from a hemisphere that whipped into place and pushed the tank bottom into a non-flat shape

                  Also making the tank a cylinder might help.

                  Best regards
                  Barry
                  old website at barryfish.com

                  If anyone is building a printer with a large 12"+ build area, please contact me.
                • Graham Stabler
                  Someone in the group has done just that, he used a PDMS membrane (images in the files section, looks like it is made from wood if I remember correctly. Sagging
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 25, 2012
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                    Someone in the group has done just that, he used a PDMS membrane (images in the files section, looks like it is made from wood if I remember correctly. Sagging may be an issue for larger parts. 

                    The hemisphere would have to suck on the membrane else you would be pushing the membrane into the part.

                    Graham



                    On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:48 PM, thebarryfish <bward@...> wrote:
                     

                    Make the bottom of the tank a semi-rigid membrane supported only on edges. Lifting the build part would naturally bow the tank bottom upward and peel the part features from the edge(s).

                    Additional help could come from a hemisphere that whipped into place and pushed the tank bottom into a non-flat shape

                    Also making the tank a cylinder might help.

                    Best regards
                    Barry
                    old website at barryfish.com

                    If anyone is building a printer with a large 12"+ build area, please contact me.


                  • Ben Mahony
                    I m making one with a 400mm x 600mm x 650mm build area but only 400um resolution, if it works well, I ll update it 200um res, by upgrading projector. I ve made
                    Message 9 of 9 , Oct 25, 2012
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                      I'm making one with a 400mm x 600mm x 650mm build area but only 400um resolution, if it works well, I'll update it 200um res, by upgrading projector.
                      I've made the cabinet,Z axis, and have finished designing multi projector mount.  My mate has made slicing software from scratch so we are nearly ready to test it all together.  We are projecting onto the open top surface of the vat, so no sticking issues, plenty of patent infringements apparently but currently it is not for profit, though I most likely will sell what it prints so that might be an issue.

                      Benjamin Mahony

                      This email was sent from a phone.

                      On Oct 25, 2012 10:48 PM, "thebarryfish" <bward@...> wrote:
                       

                      Make the bottom of the tank a semi-rigid membrane supported only on edges. Lifting the build part would naturally bow the tank bottom upward and peel the part features from the edge(s).

                      Additional help could come from a hemisphere that whipped into place and pushed the tank bottom into a non-flat shape

                      Also making the tank a cylinder might help.

                      Best regards
                      Barry
                      old website at barryfish.com

                      If anyone is building a printer with a large 12"+ build area, please contact me.

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