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Re: What if

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  • halebahay
    ... Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the more reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be effective.
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 3, 2009
      --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "johnrpm@..." <johnrpm@...> wrote:
      >
      > Here is a video of how to hack a lcd screen,
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lWqKHpGuc
      > and make a projector, what if the projector had UV
      > light, and using photosensitive resin a crude SLA
      > could be built.
      >

      Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the more reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be effective.
    • johnrpm@ymail.com
      ... DLP would be perfect, one vendor uses them in their machines, but I was hoping for something affordable, but if as you say UV would destroy the cells in
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
        --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "halebahay" <halebahay@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "johnrpm@" <johnrpm@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Here is a video of how to hack a lcd screen,
        > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lWqKHpGuc
        > > and make a projector, what if the projector had UV
        > > light, and using photosensitive resin a crude SLA
        > > could be built.
        > >
        >
        > Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the more reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be effective.
        >
        DLP would be perfect, one vendor uses them in their machines, but I was hoping for something affordable, but if as you say UV would destroy the cells in LCD panels then it would not work for long, shame.
      • Fernando Muñiz
        How about using something like an Etch A Sketch (http://www.howstuffworks.com/question317.htm), replacing the glass surfaces with UV translucent plastic, that
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
          How about using something like an Etch A Sketch (http://www.howstuffworks.com/question317.htm), replacing the glass surfaces with UV translucent plastic, that is. The Etch a sketch would have to be transparent to UV and the inside powder would have to be UV opaque. As it lays on the downside of the box, it doesn't need to be as sticky as aluminum powder.
          You would draw the layers one at a time on the Etch a Sketch, then switch on the UV lamps that would shine through the contraption to the UV sensible resin below.
          I had some formulations of self made UV resins that were cheap compared to the commercial stuff.
          What's the price of those resins today?

          On Thu, 2009-06-04 at 07:09 +0000, johnrpm@... wrote:


          --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "halebahay" <halebahay@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "johnrpm@" <johnrpm@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Here is a video of how to hack a lcd screen,
          > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lWqKHpGuc
          > > and make a projector, what if the projector had UV
          > > light, and using photosensitive resin a crude SLA
          > > could be built.
          > >
          >
          > Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the more reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be effective.
          >
          DLP would be perfect, one vendor uses them in their machines, but I was hoping for something affordable, but if as you say UV would destroy the cells in LCD panels then it would not work for long, shame.




        • johnrpm@ymail.com
          uv resins are very expensive but uv inks and paints are reasonable, such as the paint used for screen print masks, here goes another idea, but difficult to do,
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 6, 2009
            uv resins are very expensive but uv inks and paints are reasonable, such as the paint used for screen print masks, here goes another idea, but difficult to do, use the flourescent powder as used in the lamps for photoresist units, and (here's the difficult bit) replace the front glass of a crt with glass that will pass uv (forget the name)coat it with the uv emitting powder, pull down a vacuum and it should emit uv?????, I remember seeing a site where someone made his own electron gun, and built a crude osciloscope tube, bicromated geletin was used in the wooburytype printing process by the victorians, this also used uv to cure it, I tried to copy it using a photographic enlarger and mercury lamp to make lithophanes, it sort of worked.

            the etch a sketch is an interesting idea, but would it be a bit slow?.
            would you share the uv home made formulation?.
            I thinks an electron beam also cures uv resin, (which is another idea).





            --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Muñiz <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
            >
            > How about using something like an Etch A Sketch
            > (http://www.howstuffworks.com/question317.htm), replacing the glass
            > surfaces with UV translucent plastic, that is. The Etch a sketch would
            > have to be transparent to UV and the inside powder would have to be UV
            > opaque. As it lays on the downside of the box, it doesn't need to be as
            > sticky as aluminum powder.
            > You would draw the layers one at a time on the Etch a Sketch, then
            > switch on the UV lamps that would shine through the contraption to the
            > UV sensible resin below.
            > I had some formulations of self made UV resins that were cheap compared
            > to the commercial stuff.
            > What's the price of those resins today?
            >
            > On Thu, 2009-06-04 at 07:09 +0000, johnrpm@... wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "halebahay"
            > > <halebahay@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "johnrpm@"
            > > <johnrpm@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Here is a video of how to hack a lcd screen,
            > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lWqKHpGuc
            > > > > and make a projector, what if the projector had UV
            > > > > light, and using photosensitive resin a crude SLA
            > > > > could be built.
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the more
            > > reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be
            > > effective.
            > > >
            > > DLP would be perfect, one vendor uses them in their machines, but I
            > > was hoping for something affordable, but if as you say UV would
            > > destroy the cells in LCD panels then it would not work for long,
            > > shame.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Michael Fagan
            I don t know about glass, but you can get UV-transmissive acrylic. We use it all the time in building scientific instruments which have to have wide-spectrum
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 6, 2009
              I don't know about glass, but you can get UV-transmissive acrylic. We
              use it all the time in building scientific instruments which have to
              have wide-spectrum optics.

              On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 15:52, johnrpm@... <johnrpm@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > uv resins are very expensive but uv inks and paints are reasonable, such as
              > the paint used for screen print masks, here goes another idea, but difficult
              > to do, use the flourescent powder as used in the lamps for photoresist
              > units, and (here's the difficult bit) replace the front glass of a crt with
              > glass that will pass uv (forget the name)coat it with the uv emitting
              > powder, pull down a vacuum and it should emit uv?????, I remember seeing a
              > site where someone made his own electron gun, and built a crude osciloscope
              > tube, bicromated geletin was used in the wooburytype printing process by the
              > victorians, this also used uv to cure it, I tried to copy it using a
              > photographic enlarger and mercury lamp to make lithophanes, it sort of
              > worked.
              >
              > the etch a sketch is an interesting idea, but would it be a bit slow?.
              > would you share the uv home made formulation?.
              > I thinks an electron beam also cures uv resin, (which is another idea).
              >
              > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Muñiz
              > <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> How about using something like an Etch A Sketch
              >> (http://www.howstuffworks.com/question317.htm), replacing the glass
              >> surfaces with UV translucent plastic, that is. The Etch a sketch would
              >> have to be transparent to UV and the inside powder would have to be UV
              >> opaque. As it lays on the downside of the box, it doesn't need to be as
              >> sticky as aluminum powder.
              >> You would draw the layers one at a time on the Etch a Sketch, then
              >> switch on the UV lamps that would shine through the contraption to the
              >> UV sensible resin below.
              >> I had some formulations of self made UV resins that were cheap compared
              >> to the commercial stuff.
              >> What's the price of those resins today?
              >>
              >> On Thu, 2009-06-04 at 07:09 +0000, johnrpm@... wrote:
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "halebahay"
              >> > <halebahay@> wrote:
              >> > >
              >> > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "johnrpm@"
              >> > <johnrpm@> wrote:
              >> > > >
              >> > > > Here is a video of how to hack a lcd screen,
              >> > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lWqKHpGuc
              >> > > > and make a projector, what if the projector had UV
              >> > > > light, and using photosensitive resin a crude SLA
              >> > > > could be built.
              >> > > >
              >> > >
              >> > > Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the more
              >> > reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be
              >> > effective.
              >> > >
              >> > DLP would be perfect, one vendor uses them in their machines, but I
              >> > was hoping for something affordable, but if as you say UV would
              >> > destroy the cells in LCD panels then it would not work for long,
              >> > shame.
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >>
              >
              >
            • John Wasser
              Instead of creating a mask (using the Etch A Sketch device) and then passing UV through the mask you could use a UV light moved directly by the Etch A Sketch
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 6, 2009
                Instead of creating a mask (using the Etch A Sketch device) and then passing UV through the mask you could use a UV light moved directly by the Etch A Sketch mechanism. You could then draw layers directly.

                I wonder how deep a layer of UV-curing ink you can cure with a UV LED.

                --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Muñiz <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
                > How about using something like an Etch A Sketch
                > (http://www.howstuffworks.com/question317.htm), replacing the glass
                > surfaces with UV translucent plastic, that is. The Etch a sketch would
                > have to be transparent to UV and the inside powder would have to be UV
                > opaque. As it lays on the downside of the box, it doesn't need to be as
                > sticky as aluminum powder.
                > You would draw the layers one at a time on the Etch a Sketch, then
                > switch on the UV lamps that would shine through the contraption to the
                > UV sensible resin below.
                > I had some formulations of self made UV resins that were cheap compared
                > to the commercial stuff.
                > What's the price of those resins today?
              • fernando
                Well, i don t know how much slower an etch a sketch would be than a FDM. But it would definitely be slower than an inkjet type printer and surely slower than a
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 7, 2009
                  Well, i don't know how much slower an etch a sketch would be than a FDM.
                  But it would definitely be slower than an inkjet type printer and surely
                  slower than a hypothetical UV-LCD type.

                  A while ago I was contributing with the Reprap folks, but they seemed
                  more interested pursuing the FDMs than my UV resins. Here is the link
                  for the UV-resins I made. It's all free as in speech :)

                  http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?70,10142,11219#msg-11219

                  Maybe I should make a copy of that thread elsewhere, as I'm not visiting
                  the site so often anymore.

                  Also, the resins I developed were kinda viscous, I always thought that
                  some of the chemicals I used would also work fairly well with
                  Methylmetacrylate, which would make an ideal resin for inkjets (as it
                  has VERY low viscosity, something like acetone or ether)

                  About electron beam curing, wouldn't the whole contraption need to be in
                  a vacuum?



                  On Sat, 2009-06-06 at 22:52 +0000, johnrpm@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > uv resins are very expensive but uv inks and paints are reasonable,
                  > such as the paint used for screen print masks, here goes another idea,
                  > but difficult to do, use the flourescent powder as used in the lamps
                  > for photoresist units, and (here's the difficult bit) replace the
                  > front glass of a crt with glass that will pass uv (forget the
                  > name)coat it with the uv emitting powder, pull down a vacuum and it
                  > should emit uv?????, I remember seeing a site where someone made his
                  > own electron gun, and built a crude osciloscope tube, bicromated
                  > geletin was used in the wooburytype printing process by the
                  > victorians, this also used uv to cure it, I tried to copy it using a
                  > photographic enlarger and mercury lamp to make lithophanes, it sort of
                  > worked.
                  >
                  > the etch a sketch is an interesting idea, but would it be a bit slow?.
                  > would you share the uv home made formulation?.
                  > I thinks an electron beam also cures uv resin, (which is another
                  > idea).
                  >
                  > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Muñiz
                  > <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > How about using something like an Etch A Sketch
                  > > (http://www.howstuffworks.com/question317.htm), replacing the glass
                  > > surfaces with UV translucent plastic, that is. The Etch a sketch
                  > would
                  > > have to be transparent to UV and the inside powder would have to be
                  > UV
                  > > opaque. As it lays on the downside of the box, it doesn't need to be
                  > as
                  > > sticky as aluminum powder.
                  > > You would draw the layers one at a time on the Etch a Sketch, then
                  > > switch on the UV lamps that would shine through the contraption to
                  > the
                  > > UV sensible resin below.
                  > > I had some formulations of self made UV resins that were cheap
                  > compared
                  > > to the commercial stuff.
                  > > What's the price of those resins today?
                  > >
                  > > On Thu, 2009-06-04 at 07:09 +0000, johnrpm@... wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com,
                  > "halebahay"
                  > > > <halebahay@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com,
                  > "johnrpm@"
                  > > > <johnrpm@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Here is a video of how to hack a lcd screen,
                  > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lWqKHpGuc
                  > > > > > and make a projector, what if the projector had UV
                  > > > > > light, and using photosensitive resin a crude SLA
                  > > > > > could be built.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the more
                  > > > reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be
                  > > > effective.
                  > > > >
                  > > > DLP would be perfect, one vendor uses them in their machines, but
                  > I
                  > > > was hoping for something affordable, but if as you say UV would
                  > > > destroy the cells in LCD panels then it would not work for long,
                  > > > shame.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • fernando
                  A glass that is UV-transmissive would be quarz glass. Is t this what they use in UV-lamps?
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 7, 2009
                    A glass that is UV-transmissive would be quarz glass.
                    Is't this what they use in UV-lamps?

                    On Sat, 2009-06-06 at 15:58 -0700, Michael Fagan wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > I don't know about glass, but you can get UV-transmissive acrylic. We
                    > use it all the time in building scientific instruments which have to
                    > have wide-spectrum optics.
                    >
                    > On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 15:52, johnrpm@... <johnrpm@...>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > uv resins are very expensive but uv inks and paints are reasonable,
                    > such as
                    > > the paint used for screen print masks, here goes another idea, but
                    > difficult
                    > > to do, use the flourescent powder as used in the lamps for
                    > photoresist
                    > > units, and (here's the difficult bit) replace the front glass of a
                    > crt with
                    > > glass that will pass uv (forget the name)coat it with the uv
                    > emitting
                    > > powder, pull down a vacuum and it should emit uv?????, I remember
                    > seeing a
                    > > site where someone made his own electron gun, and built a crude
                    > osciloscope
                    > > tube, bicromated geletin was used in the wooburytype printing
                    > process by the
                    > > victorians, this also used uv to cure it, I tried to copy it using a
                    > > photographic enlarger and mercury lamp to make lithophanes, it sort
                    > of
                    > > worked.
                    > >
                    > > the etch a sketch is an interesting idea, but would it be a bit
                    > slow?.
                    > > would you share the uv home made formulation?.
                    > > I thinks an electron beam also cures uv resin, (which is another
                    > idea).
                    > >
                    > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Fernando
                    > Muñiz
                    > > <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> How about using something like an Etch A Sketch
                    > >> (http://www.howstuffworks.com/question317.htm), replacing the glass
                    > >> surfaces with UV translucent plastic, that is. The Etch a sketch
                    > would
                    > >> have to be transparent to UV and the inside powder would have to be
                    > UV
                    > >> opaque. As it lays on the downside of the box, it doesn't need to
                    > be as
                    > >> sticky as aluminum powder.
                    > >> You would draw the layers one at a time on the Etch a Sketch, then
                    > >> switch on the UV lamps that would shine through the contraption to
                    > the
                    > >> UV sensible resin below.
                    > >> I had some formulations of self made UV resins that were cheap
                    > compared
                    > >> to the commercial stuff.
                    > >> What's the price of those resins today?
                    > >>
                    > >> On Thu, 2009-06-04 at 07:09 +0000, johnrpm@... wrote:
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com,
                    > "halebahay"
                    > >> > <halebahay@> wrote:
                    > >> > >
                    > >> > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com,
                    > "johnrpm@"
                    > >> > <johnrpm@> wrote:
                    > >> > > >
                    > >> > > > Here is a video of how to hack a lcd screen,
                    > >> > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lWqKHpGuc
                    > >> > > > and make a projector, what if the projector had UV
                    > >> > > > light, and using photosensitive resin a crude SLA
                    > >> > > > could be built.
                    > >> > > >
                    > >> > >
                    > >> > > Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the
                    > more
                    > >> > reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be
                    > >> > effective.
                    > >> > >
                    > >> > DLP would be perfect, one vendor uses them in their machines, but
                    > I
                    > >> > was hoping for something affordable, but if as you say UV would
                    > >> > destroy the cells in LCD panels then it would not work for long,
                    > >> > shame.
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • fernando
                    It s a matter of wattage per surface, so you would have to focus the beam of a strong enough source on as tight a spot you can. Usually you do that with
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 7, 2009
                      It's a matter of wattage per surface, so you would have to focus the
                      beam of a strong enough source on as tight a spot you can.
                      Usually you do that with expensive UV lasers, but I have seen that
                      there's UV-leds that have been developped recently with a high enough
                      output so that it was being used for curing.

                      Of course, spectra and maximum emission peaks are critical in these
                      applications!
                      http://www.s-et.com/?gclid=CNy44sTU95oCFQ-A3godT0vfdw


                      On Sun, 2009-06-07 at 01:59 +0000, John Wasser wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Instead of creating a mask (using the Etch A Sketch device) and then
                      > passing UV through the mask you could use a UV light moved directly by
                      > the Etch A Sketch mechanism. You could then draw layers directly.
                      >
                      > I wonder how deep a layer of UV-curing ink you can cure with a UV LED.
                      >
                      > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Muñiz
                      > <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
                      > > How about using something like an Etch A Sketch
                      > > (http://www.howstuffworks.com/question317.htm), replacing the glass
                      > > surfaces with UV translucent plastic, that is. The Etch a sketch
                      > would
                      > > have to be transparent to UV and the inside powder would have to be
                      > UV
                      > > opaque. As it lays on the downside of the box, it doesn't need to be
                      > as
                      > > sticky as aluminum powder.
                      > > You would draw the layers one at a time on the Etch a Sketch, then
                      > > switch on the UV lamps that would shine through the contraption to
                      > the
                      > > UV sensible resin below.
                      > > I had some formulations of self made UV resins that were cheap
                      > compared
                      > > to the commercial stuff.
                      > > What's the price of those resins today?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Boman33
                      Good info Fernando! Is the information complete now? There was some problem with missing chemical info. See: Oh so neat... Somebody with writing credentials,
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 7, 2009

                        Good info Fernando!

                        Is the information complete now?  There was some problem with missing chemical info.  See:

                         

                        Oh so neat...
                        Somebody with writing credentials, acquired or hacked, has deleted the info on the chemicals post (Nº3).
                        I guess it's about time I get the info from this thread somewhere else, as I have the feeling this topic is not welcome here.

                         

                        Reply:   ... this wasn't a hacker but a software-bug - any special character in the post causes a truncation so the text after is been deleted sad smiley   In the german forum all german umlauts ressulted in 95% truncated/senseless posts angry smiley    Nobody seems to be able to repair this confused smiley
                        -----------------------

                         

                         

                        From: Fernando    Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 03:22

                        A while ago I was contributing with the Reprap folks, but they seemed
                        more interested pursuing the FDMs than my UV resins. Here is the link
                        for the UV-resins I made. It's all free as in speech :)

                        http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?70,10142,11219#msg-11219

                        Maybe I should make a copy of that thread elsewhere, as I'm not visiting
                        the site so often anymore.

                        Also, the resins I developed were kinda viscous, I always thought that
                        some of the chemicals I used would also work fairly well with
                        Methylmetacrylate, which would make an ideal resin for inkjets (as it
                        has VERY low viscosity, something like acetone or ether)

                      • fernando
                        You, the missing info has been added. It was just a list of chemical order numbers and prices that were missing. Anyway, I have made a backup of the important
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 7, 2009
                          You, the missing info has been added. It was just a list of chemical
                          order numbers and prices that were missing.

                          Anyway, I have made a backup of the important parts of that thread so
                          that I can always post it back somewhere if need be.

                          Ask me if you have any questions!
                          Sadly I moved from my old apartment to my girl-friends place and here I
                          don't have the space to setup a lab anymore, but I still can recommend
                          stuff to people willing to try out ideas.

                          On Sun, 2009-06-07 at 04:01 -0400, Boman33 wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Good info Fernando!
                          >
                          > Is the information complete now? There was some problem with missing
                          > chemical info. See:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Oh so neat...
                          > Somebody with writing credentials, acquired or hacked, has deleted the
                          > info on the chemicals post (Nº3).
                          > I guess it's about time I get the info from this thread somewhere
                          > else, as I have the feeling this topic is not welcome here.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Reply: ... this wasn't a hacker but a software-bug - any special
                          > character in the post causes a truncation so the text after is been
                          > deleted sad smiley In the german forum all german umlauts ressulted
                          > in 95% truncated/senseless posts angry smiley Nobody seems to be
                          > able to repair this confused smiley
                          > -----------------------
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > From: Fernando Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 03:22
                          >
                          > A while ago I was contributing with the Reprap folks, but they seemed
                          > more interested pursuing the FDMs than my UV resins. Here is the link
                          > for the UV-resins I made. It's all free as in speech :)
                          >
                          > http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?70,10142,11219#msg-11219
                          >
                          > Maybe I should make a copy of that thread elsewhere, as I'm not
                          > visiting
                          > the site so often anymore.
                          >
                          > Also, the resins I developed were kinda viscous, I always thought that
                          > some of the chemicals I used would also work fairly well with
                          > Methylmetacrylate, which would make an ideal resin for inkjets (as it
                          > has VERY low viscosity, something like acetone or ether)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Boman33
                          Since I think it a good reference and it would be useful to have it complied into one post and it would be great if you could post it here. I took the freedom
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 7, 2009

                            Since I think it a good reference and it would be useful to have it complied into one post and it would be great if you could post it here.

                            I took the freedom to change the thread name to match the current subject.

                            Bertho

                             

                            From: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com [mailto:diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fernando
                            Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 04:20
                            To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: What if

                             




                            You, the missing info has been added. It was just a list of chemical
                            order numbers and prices that were missing.

                            Anyway, I have made a backup of the important parts of that thread so
                            that I can always post it back somewhere if need be.

                            Ask me if you have any questions!
                            Sadly I moved from my old apartment to my girl-friends place and here I
                            don't have the space to setup a lab anymore, but I still can recommend
                            stuff to people willing to try out ideas.

                            On Sun, 2009-06-07 at 04:01 -0400, Boman33 wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Good info Fernando!
                            >
                            > Is the information complete now? There was some problem with missing
                            > chemical info. See:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Oh so neat...
                            > Somebody with writing credentials, acquired or hacked, has deleted the
                            > info on the chemicals post (Nº3).
                            > I guess it's about time I get the info from this thread somewhere
                            > else, as I have the feeling this topic is not welcome here.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Reply: ... this wasn't a hacker but a software-bug - any special
                            > character in the post causes a truncation so the text after is been
                            > deleted sad smiley In the german forum all german umlauts ressulted
                            > in 95% truncated/senseless posts angry smiley Nobody seems to be
                            > able to repair this confused smiley
                            > -----------------------

                          • fernando
                            OK, so here it goes. This is from a thread I started on the RepRap forum last year. I am sending it to thi slist as I think it s more relevant here. ... What
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 7, 2009
                              OK, so here it goes.
                              This is from a thread I started on the RepRap forum last year.
                              I am sending it to thi slist as I think it's more relevant here.
                              ---------------------------------------------------------

                              What do you need to make UV-curing resins?
                              Posted by: spota (IP Logged) (RepRap Guru)
                              Date: March 08, 2008 05:42AM

                              What do you need for using UV-curing resins?

                              In this thread I will list a number of materials you will need to make
                              use of UV-curing reins. I have decided to post this information here in
                              the forum for now, as it seems the place where it's guaranteed not to be
                              deleted and I can always link to in the future when asked these
                              questions, as well as being able to receive comments from people
                              engaging with me in experimenting this very promising technique.

                              We can divide the list of materials in resins, chemicals and UV lamps.

                              1) The resins I am using are off the shelve products. They can be
                              Polyester, Epoxy or Acrylic/Alkydic resins. The catalyzers I will
                              discuss below should work with all these resins.

                              2) The chemicals that will compose the catalyzer will make the resins
                              harden under UV-light. Some of these chemicals will be photoinitiators
                              to start the curing process, others will be activators and accelerators
                              to make the curing reaction faster, others still will be stabilizers to
                              make the pot-life of the mixed resin longer.

                              3) UV-lamps are the light sources you will need to make the resin mixes
                              harden.




                              messageRe: What do you need for using UV-curing resins?
                              Posted by: spota (IP Logged) (RepRap Guru)
                              Date: March 08, 2008 05:43AM

                              1) Resins
                              * Polyester resins
                              These are cheap, very commonly available resins. They are, when not
                              mixed with fillers, clear and have the consistency of syrup, the
                              viscosity depending on the Styrene monomer solvent content it has. The
                              resin sold in shops usually comes with a dual component catalyzer,
                              generally Benzoylperoxide or MEKPeroxide. This catalyzer is of no use
                              for our UV-catalyzed mix. The resin usually also comes pre-accelerated.
                              This means it contains metal salts that accelerate the decomposition of
                              catalyzers. These cause the pot-life of the mixed resins to be lower.

                              * Epoxy resins
                              Epoxy resins are usually more expensive resins than Polyester. They also
                              show better hardness properties as well as adhesion and less shrinkage.
                              The filler-free form has a similar viscosity to Polyester and is sold in
                              shops, as Polyester, with a dual component catalyzer, generally
                              Benzoylperoxide or MEK-Peroxide. This catalyzer is of no use for our
                              UV-catalyzed mix.

                              * Acrylic/Alkydic resins
                              These are very varied in their composition and can also be initialized
                              by peroxide dual component catalyzers. Not every Acrylic resin is a
                              valid UV-curable resin. The higher reactivity ones are preferred, but
                              prices can be pretty steep for these resins.
                              Alkydic resins are used in common varnishes. The price is significantly
                              lower but the reactivity is lower too.
                              Both Acrylic and Alkydic resins need to be tested further for
                              standardization purposes.




                              messageRe: What do you need for using UV-curing resins?
                              Posted by: spota (IP Logged) (RepRap Guru)
                              Date: March 08, 2008 05:45AM

                              2) Catalyzer Chemicals

                              These are the names of the chemicals used:
                              Benzophenone, CAS: 119-61-9 (+/- 44€ kg)
                              Benzil, CAS: 134-81-6 (35€ 500g)





                              messageRe: What do you need for using UV-curing resins?
                              Posted by: spota (IP Logged) (RepRap Guru)
                              Date: March 08, 2008 05:46AM

                              3) UV lamps

                              Here I will discuss the source of UV lights that can be used for curing
                              the resins at hand.
                              The wavelength necessary for activating the photoinitiators is dependent
                              on the chemical nature of each photoinitiator.
                              In our case, Benzophenone, Benzil and Benzoinisobutylether are all
                              especially sensible to 2 wavelengths: 256nm and 365nm.

                              256nm UV-light is in the UV range generally described as UV-C (also
                              called germicidal, or EPROM erasing).
                              365nm UV-light is in the UV range called UV-B (also called black light
                              or actinic).
                              Whatever lamps you use, it is important that they emit a high percentage
                              of their wattage in those bands.

                              Sadly, the lamps able to emit in both peaks simultaneously are rather
                              expensive. They are called Medium-pressure mercury lamps and are in the
                              range of 200W upwards and require a special power source and cooling
                              assembly. They are also very effective and induce fast curing, but are
                              crippled with a very high price!

                              There are also LEDs that have been developed lately that emit in these
                              wavelengths but I haven't tested them. They should work properly if the
                              beam is collimated enough so as to deliver powers in Watt/cm^2 high
                              enough to deliver fast curing.

                              There may be powerful lasers in the ranges indicated but these are not
                              commonly available and are probably very expensive also.

                              The solution I found to be best is to use 2 fluorescent lamps from well
                              known fabricators, as Philips, GE or Sylvania. The 365nm fluorescent
                              comes at around 5-10

                              I'll attach the circuit diagram for the lamps I'm using. It's really
                              easy stuff: 5 cables to screw in and voila!

                              As for the ballast to use for the lamp models above, here are the specs:
                              (I use the same ballast and base for both germicidal and black light
                              lamps)

                              Ballast:
                              230V/50Hz
                              36W, 430mA, lambda 0.45, 4,5 microF

                              Base and starter:
                              Just get the regular base with the regular starter, same stuff as your
                              ordinary fluo. Don't need to build one yourself!
                              Philips S10
                              220/240V
                              4-65W Single




                              messageRe: What do you need for using UV-curing resins?
                              Posted by: spota (IP Logged) (RepRap Guru)
                              Date: March 08, 2008 06:10AM

                              4) Recipes

                              Here I will list a number of possible recipes for UV-curable resins.
                              The list below is just a start and I'm sure a wild variety of different
                              ones will emerge and evolve in time. I have created a small spreadsheet
                              to calculate the prices of these mixes. I will show the price as well.
                              Pot-life of all these resins can greatly be improved if they are kept
                              away in dark places and in opaque containers.

                              * Best results yet! Excellent curing speed, great hardness and
                              toughness:
                              For 100g of final resin mix (RM)
                              3g of Benzil
                              1g of Benzoilisobutylether (BIsoBE)
                              1g of MDEA
                              0.5g of EDTA or 0.1g of Hydrochinone
                              complete to 100g with Polyester resin.
                              Cost of chemicals: 0.74



                              On Sun, 2009-06-07 at 04:29 -0400, Boman33 wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Since I think it a good reference and it would be useful to have it
                              > complied into one post and it would be great if you could post it
                              > here.
                              >
                              > I took the freedom to change the thread name to match the current
                              > subject.
                              >
                              > Bertho
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > From:diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
                              > [mailto:diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                              > fernando
                              > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 04:20
                              > To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: RE: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: What if
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > You, the missing info has been added. It was just a list of chemical
                              > order numbers and prices that were missing.
                              >
                              > Anyway, I have made a backup of the important parts of that thread so
                              > that I can always post it back somewhere if need be.
                              >
                              > Ask me if you have any questions!
                              > Sadly I moved from my old apartment to my girl-friends place and here
                              > I
                              > don't have the space to setup a lab anymore, but I still can recommend
                              > stuff to people willing to try out ideas.
                              >
                              > On Sun, 2009-06-07 at 04:01 -0400, Boman33 wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Good info Fernando!
                              > >
                              > > Is the information complete now? There was some problem with missing
                              > > chemical info. See:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Oh so neat...
                              > > Somebody with writing credentials, acquired or hacked, has deleted
                              > the
                              > > info on the chemicals post (Nº3).
                              > > I guess it's about time I get the info from this thread somewhere
                              > > else, as I have the feeling this topic is not welcome here.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Reply: ... this wasn't a hacker but a software-bug - any special
                              > > character in the post causes a truncation so the text after is been
                              > > deleted sad smiley In the german forum all german umlauts ressulted
                              > > in 95% truncated/senseless posts angry smiley Nobody seems to be
                              > > able to repair this confused smiley
                              > > -----------------------
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • johnrpm@ymail.com
                              The origonal SLA back in the eighties was a uv lamp with a fibre optic mounted on a plotter, very much like the etch a sketch, so it would work, I have just
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 7, 2009
                                The origonal SLA back in the eighties was a uv lamp with a fibre optic
                                mounted on a plotter, very much like the etch a sketch, so it would work, I have just dismantled some dvd writers, some realy usefull optics that could be used for the etch a sketch, (the lasers can burn paper at the right focal length).

                                Some time ago I visited rolls royce engines, they had an electon beam welder, it was in a box about 3 metres cube and the welds were on material 200mm thick, the whole box was pumped down to a vacuum, so yes it would need to be in a vacuum but that should not be to difficult, I have 2 vacuum pumps from the skip, an old edwards pump that will last forever and needed no attention, and a nearly new high speed pump that was used to pump down large laser tubes but needed a full clean out.

                                What if we had a glass cube full of UV resin and 2 electron guns at 90 degrees to each other, where the two beams intersect the energy is enough to initiate the resin, but below the required energy level elsewhere, a bit like the way those glass blocks are laser etched, do you think this could work??????????

                                Yes, quartz glass, thats what I was thinking of, thanks








                                --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, fernando <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Well, i don't know how much slower an etch a sketch would be than a FDM.
                                > But it would definitely be slower than an inkjet type printer and surely
                                > slower than a hypothetical UV-LCD type.
                                >
                                > A while ago I was contributing with the Reprap folks, but they seemed
                                > more interested pursuing the FDMs than my UV resins. Here is the link
                                > for the UV-resins I made. It's all free as in speech :)
                                >
                                > http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?70,10142,11219#msg-11219
                                >
                                > Maybe I should make a copy of that thread elsewhere, as I'm not visiting
                                > the site so often anymore.
                                >
                                > Also, the resins I developed were kinda viscous, I always thought that
                                > some of the chemicals I used would also work fairly well with
                                > Methylmetacrylate, which would make an ideal resin for inkjets (as it
                                > has VERY low viscosity, something like acetone or ether)
                                >
                                > About electron beam curing, wouldn't the whole contraption need to be in
                                > a vacuum?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > On Sat, 2009-06-06 at 22:52 +0000, johnrpm@... wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > uv resins are very expensive but uv inks and paints are reasonable,
                                > > such as the paint used for screen print masks, here goes another idea,
                                > > but difficult to do, use the flourescent powder as used in the lamps
                                > > for photoresist units, and (here's the difficult bit) replace the
                                > > front glass of a crt with glass that will pass uv (forget the
                                > > name)coat it with the uv emitting powder, pull down a vacuum and it
                                > > should emit uv?????, I remember seeing a site where someone made his
                                > > own electron gun, and built a crude osciloscope tube, bicromated
                                > > geletin was used in the wooburytype printing process by the
                                > > victorians, this also used uv to cure it, I tried to copy it using a
                                > > photographic enlarger and mercury lamp to make lithophanes, it sort of
                                > > worked.
                                > >
                                > > the etch a sketch is an interesting idea, but would it be a bit slow?.
                                > > would you share the uv home made formulation?.
                                > > I thinks an electron beam also cures uv resin, (which is another
                                > > idea).
                                > >
                                > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Muñiz
                                > > <spacecaptain@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > How about using something like an Etch A Sketch
                                > > > (http://www.howstuffworks.com/question317.htm), replacing the glass
                                > > > surfaces with UV translucent plastic, that is. The Etch a sketch
                                > > would
                                > > > have to be transparent to UV and the inside powder would have to be
                                > > UV
                                > > > opaque. As it lays on the downside of the box, it doesn't need to be
                                > > as
                                > > > sticky as aluminum powder.
                                > > > You would draw the layers one at a time on the Etch a Sketch, then
                                > > > switch on the UV lamps that would shine through the contraption to
                                > > the
                                > > > UV sensible resin below.
                                > > > I had some formulations of self made UV resins that were cheap
                                > > compared
                                > > > to the commercial stuff.
                                > > > What's the price of those resins today?
                                > > >
                                > > > On Thu, 2009-06-04 at 07:09 +0000, johnrpm@ wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com,
                                > > "halebahay"
                                > > > > <halebahay@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com,
                                > > "johnrpm@"
                                > > > > <johnrpm@> wrote:
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Here is a video of how to hack a lcd screen,
                                > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lWqKHpGuc
                                > > > > > > and make a projector, what if the projector had UV
                                > > > > > > light, and using photosensitive resin a crude SLA
                                > > > > > > could be built.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the more
                                > > > > reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be
                                > > > > effective.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > DLP would be perfect, one vendor uses them in their machines, but
                                > > I
                                > > > > was hoping for something affordable, but if as you say UV would
                                > > > > destroy the cells in LCD panels then it would not work for long,
                                > > > > shame.
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • gsi11135
                                To All: Post links in context AND in the links section with appropriate description. Thank you. Joseph Owner/Moderator
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jun 12, 2009
                                  To All:

                                  Post links in context AND in the links section with appropriate description.

                                  Thank you.

                                  Joseph
                                  Owner/Moderator



                                  --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, fernando <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > It's a matter of wattage per surface, so you would have to focus the
                                  > beam of a strong enough source on as tight a spot you can.
                                  > Usually you do that with expensive UV lasers, but I have seen that
                                  > there's UV-leds that have been developped recently with a high enough
                                  > output so that it was being used for curing.
                                  >
                                  > Of course, spectra and maximum emission peaks are critical in these
                                  > applications!
                                  > http://www.s-et.com/?gclid=CNy44sTU95oCFQ-A3godT0vfdw
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Sun, 2009-06-07 at 01:59 +0000, John Wasser wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Instead of creating a mask (using the Etch A Sketch device) and then
                                  > > passing UV through the mask you could use a UV light moved directly by
                                  > > the Etch A Sketch mechanism. You could then draw layers directly.
                                  > >
                                  > > I wonder how deep a layer of UV-curing ink you can cure with a UV LED.
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Muñiz
                                  > > <spacecaptain@> wrote:
                                  > > > How about using something like an Etch A Sketch
                                  > > > (http://www.howstuffworks.com/question317.htm), replacing the glass
                                  > > > surfaces with UV translucent plastic, that is. The Etch a sketch
                                  > > would
                                  > > > have to be transparent to UV and the inside powder would have to be
                                  > > UV
                                  > > > opaque. As it lays on the downside of the box, it doesn't need to be
                                  > > as
                                  > > > sticky as aluminum powder.
                                  > > > You would draw the layers one at a time on the Etch a Sketch, then
                                  > > > switch on the UV lamps that would shine through the contraption to
                                  > > the
                                  > > > UV sensible resin below.
                                  > > > I had some formulations of self made UV resins that were cheap
                                  > > compared
                                  > > > to the commercial stuff.
                                  > > > What's the price of those resins today?
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • gsi11135
                                  Fernando, Great info! If you could put this in a file and upload it to the files section with appropriate description would be great! Joseph Owner/Moderator
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jun 12, 2009
                                    Fernando,

                                    Great info!

                                    If you could put this in a file and upload it to the files section with appropriate description would be great!

                                    Joseph
                                    Owner/Moderator


                                    --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, fernando <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > OK, so here it goes.
                                    > This is from a thread I started on the RepRap forum last year.
                                    > I am sending it to thi slist as I think it's more relevant here.
                                    > ---------------------------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > What do you need to make UV-curing resins?
                                    > Posted by: spota (IP Logged) (RepRap Guru)
                                    > Date: March 08, 2008 05:42AM
                                    >
                                    > What do you need for using UV-curing resins?
                                    >
                                    > In this thread I will list a number of materials you will need to make
                                    > use of UV-curing reins. I have decided to post this information here in
                                    > the forum for now, as it seems the place where it's guaranteed not to be
                                    > deleted and I can always link to in the future when asked these
                                    > questions, as well as being able to receive comments from people
                                    > engaging with me in experimenting this very promising technique.
                                    >
                                    > We can divide the list of materials in resins, chemicals and UV lamps.
                                    >
                                    > 1) The resins I am using are off the shelve products. They can be
                                    > Polyester, Epoxy or Acrylic/Alkydic resins. The catalyzers I will
                                    > discuss below should work with all these resins.
                                    >
                                    > 2) The chemicals that will compose the catalyzer will make the resins
                                    > harden under UV-light. Some of these chemicals will be photoinitiators
                                    > to start the curing process, others will be activators and accelerators
                                    > to make the curing reaction faster, others still will be stabilizers to
                                    > make the pot-life of the mixed resin longer.
                                    >
                                    > 3) UV-lamps are the light sources you will need to make the resin mixes
                                    > harden.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > messageRe: What do you need for using UV-curing resins?
                                    > Posted by: spota (IP Logged) (RepRap Guru)
                                    > Date: March 08, 2008 05:43AM
                                    >
                                    > 1) Resins
                                    > * Polyester resins
                                    > These are cheap, very commonly available resins. They are, when not
                                    > mixed with fillers, clear and have the consistency of syrup, the
                                    > viscosity depending on the Styrene monomer solvent content it has. The
                                    > resin sold in shops usually comes with a dual component catalyzer,
                                    > generally Benzoylperoxide or MEKPeroxide. This catalyzer is of no use
                                    > for our UV-catalyzed mix. The resin usually also comes pre-accelerated.
                                    > This means it contains metal salts that accelerate the decomposition of
                                    > catalyzers. These cause the pot-life of the mixed resins to be lower.
                                    >
                                    > * Epoxy resins
                                    > Epoxy resins are usually more expensive resins than Polyester. They also
                                    > show better hardness properties as well as adhesion and less shrinkage.
                                    > The filler-free form has a similar viscosity to Polyester and is sold in
                                    > shops, as Polyester, with a dual component catalyzer, generally
                                    > Benzoylperoxide or MEK-Peroxide. This catalyzer is of no use for our
                                    > UV-catalyzed mix.
                                    >
                                    > * Acrylic/Alkydic resins
                                    > These are very varied in their composition and can also be initialized
                                    > by peroxide dual component catalyzers. Not every Acrylic resin is a
                                    > valid UV-curable resin. The higher reactivity ones are preferred, but
                                    > prices can be pretty steep for these resins.
                                    > Alkydic resins are used in common varnishes. The price is significantly
                                    > lower but the reactivity is lower too.
                                    > Both Acrylic and Alkydic resins need to be tested further for
                                    > standardization purposes.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > messageRe: What do you need for using UV-curing resins?
                                    > Posted by: spota (IP Logged) (RepRap Guru)
                                    > Date: March 08, 2008 05:45AM
                                    >
                                    > 2) Catalyzer Chemicals
                                    >
                                    > These are the names of the chemicals used:
                                    > Benzophenone, CAS: 119-61-9 (+/- 44€ kg)
                                    > Benzil, CAS: 134-81-6 (35€ 500g)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > messageRe: What do you need for using UV-curing resins?
                                    > Posted by: spota (IP Logged) (RepRap Guru)
                                    > Date: March 08, 2008 05:46AM
                                    >
                                    > 3) UV lamps
                                    >
                                    > Here I will discuss the source of UV lights that can be used for curing
                                    > the resins at hand.
                                    > The wavelength necessary for activating the photoinitiators is dependent
                                    > on the chemical nature of each photoinitiator.
                                    > In our case, Benzophenone, Benzil and Benzoinisobutylether are all
                                    > especially sensible to 2 wavelengths: 256nm and 365nm.
                                    >
                                    > 256nm UV-light is in the UV range generally described as UV-C (also
                                    > called germicidal, or EPROM erasing).
                                    > 365nm UV-light is in the UV range called UV-B (also called black light
                                    > or actinic).
                                    > Whatever lamps you use, it is important that they emit a high percentage
                                    > of their wattage in those bands.
                                    >
                                    > Sadly, the lamps able to emit in both peaks simultaneously are rather
                                    > expensive. They are called Medium-pressure mercury lamps and are in the
                                    > range of 200W upwards and require a special power source and cooling
                                    > assembly. They are also very effective and induce fast curing, but are
                                    > crippled with a very high price!
                                    >
                                    > There are also LEDs that have been developed lately that emit in these
                                    > wavelengths but I haven't tested them. They should work properly if the
                                    > beam is collimated enough so as to deliver powers in Watt/cm^2 high
                                    > enough to deliver fast curing.
                                    >
                                    > There may be powerful lasers in the ranges indicated but these are not
                                    > commonly available and are probably very expensive also.
                                    >
                                    > The solution I found to be best is to use 2 fluorescent lamps from well
                                    > known fabricators, as Philips, GE or Sylvania. The 365nm fluorescent
                                    > comes at around 5-10
                                    >
                                    > I'll attach the circuit diagram for the lamps I'm using. It's really
                                    > easy stuff: 5 cables to screw in and voila!
                                    >
                                    > As for the ballast to use for the lamp models above, here are the specs:
                                    > (I use the same ballast and base for both germicidal and black light
                                    > lamps)
                                    >
                                    > Ballast:
                                    > 230V/50Hz
                                    > 36W, 430mA, lambda 0.45, 4,5 microF
                                    >
                                    > Base and starter:
                                    > Just get the regular base with the regular starter, same stuff as your
                                    > ordinary fluo. Don't need to build one yourself!
                                    > Philips S10
                                    > 220/240V
                                    > 4-65W Single
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > messageRe: What do you need for using UV-curing resins?
                                    > Posted by: spota (IP Logged) (RepRap Guru)
                                    > Date: March 08, 2008 06:10AM
                                    >
                                    > 4) Recipes
                                    >
                                    > Here I will list a number of possible recipes for UV-curable resins.
                                    > The list below is just a start and I'm sure a wild variety of different
                                    > ones will emerge and evolve in time. I have created a small spreadsheet
                                    > to calculate the prices of these mixes. I will show the price as well.
                                    > Pot-life of all these resins can greatly be improved if they are kept
                                    > away in dark places and in opaque containers.
                                    >
                                    > * Best results yet! Excellent curing speed, great hardness and
                                    > toughness:
                                    > For 100g of final resin mix (RM)
                                    > 3g of Benzil
                                    > 1g of Benzoilisobutylether (BIsoBE)
                                    > 1g of MDEA
                                    > 0.5g of EDTA or 0.1g of Hydrochinone
                                    > complete to 100g with Polyester resin.
                                    > Cost of chemicals: 0.74
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Sun, 2009-06-07 at 04:29 -0400, Boman33 wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Since I think it a good reference and it would be useful to have it
                                    > > complied into one post and it would be great if you could post it
                                    > > here.
                                    > >
                                    > > I took the freedom to change the thread name to match the current
                                    > > subject.
                                    > >
                                    > > Bertho
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > From:diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > [mailto:diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                    > > fernando
                                    > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 04:20
                                    > > To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: RE: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: What if
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > You, the missing info has been added. It was just a list of chemical
                                    > > order numbers and prices that were missing.
                                    > >
                                    > > Anyway, I have made a backup of the important parts of that thread so
                                    > > that I can always post it back somewhere if need be.
                                    > >
                                    > > Ask me if you have any questions!
                                    > > Sadly I moved from my old apartment to my girl-friends place and here
                                    > > I
                                    > > don't have the space to setup a lab anymore, but I still can recommend
                                    > > stuff to people willing to try out ideas.
                                    > >
                                    > > On Sun, 2009-06-07 at 04:01 -0400, Boman33 wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Good info Fernando!
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Is the information complete now? There was some problem with missing
                                    > > > chemical info. See:
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Oh so neat...
                                    > > > Somebody with writing credentials, acquired or hacked, has deleted
                                    > > the
                                    > > > info on the chemicals post (Nº3).
                                    > > > I guess it's about time I get the info from this thread somewhere
                                    > > > else, as I have the feeling this topic is not welcome here.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Reply: ... this wasn't a hacker but a software-bug - any special
                                    > > > character in the post causes a truncation so the text after is been
                                    > > > deleted sad smiley In the german forum all german umlauts ressulted
                                    > > > in 95% truncated/senseless posts angry smiley Nobody seems to be
                                    > > > able to repair this confused smiley
                                    > > > -----------------------
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • johnrpm@ymail.com
                                    ... Bought a very cheap digital photoframe to hack and see if this works, the resolution is not high, it can take sd cards but also usb sticks and can be set
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 16, 2009
                                      --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "halebahay" <halebahay@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "johnrpm@" <johnrpm@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Here is a video of how to hack a lcd screen,
                                      > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lWqKHpGuc
                                      > > and make a projector, what if the projector had UV
                                      > > light, and using photosensitive resin a crude SLA
                                      > > could be built.
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the more reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be effective.
                                      >

                                      Bought a very cheap digital photoframe to hack and see if this works,
                                      the resolution is not high, it can take sd cards but also usb sticks and can be set to display images in time slots or by manual mode, next I need to get a mercury lamp and see how long it lasts subjected to UV.
                                    • Fernando Muñiz
                                      Maybe you should try with something less energetic than an Mercury lamp (also less expensive) For this resin: http://www.suscomp.com/resins.htm you may use
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jun 16, 2009
                                        Maybe you should try with something less energetic than an Mercury lamp (also less expensive)

                                        For this resin: http://www.suscomp.com/resins.htm you may use less energetic UVA (http://members.misty.com/don/uvbulb.html)

                                        You can find UV-A lamps and their spectra here:
                                        http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/aphalo/photobio/lamps.html
                                        http://prolight.info/philips.html

                                        Of course, you never know what UV range your photoframe LCD will react to...


                                        On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 07:48 +0000, johnrpm@... wrote:


                                        --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "halebahay" <halebahay@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "johnrpm@" <johnrpm@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Here is a video of how to hack a lcd screen,
                                        > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lWqKHpGuc
                                        > > and make a projector, what if the projector had UV
                                        > > light, and using photosensitive resin a crude SLA
                                        > > could be built.
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the more reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be effective.
                                        >

                                        Bought a very cheap digital photoframe to hack and see if this works,
                                        the resolution is not high, it can take sd cards but also usb sticks and can be set to display images in time slots or by manual mode, next I need to get a mercury lamp and see how long it lasts subjected to UV.




                                      • johnrpm@ymail.com
                                        Thanks for the links Fernando, After writing the post I realized that I could use some uv tubes from a unit I have for making circuit boards, at present I use
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jun 16, 2009
                                          Thanks for the links Fernando,
                                          After writing the post I realized that I could use some uv tubes
                                          from a unit I have for making circuit boards, at present I use a laser printer and iron method to make circuit boards, but the photoframe and uv method,(if it has the resolution) may work for this also, it may be that the lcd panel will not pass the uv light, depends on what material its made from?, or it may not last for more than a few minutes?, but thats part of the fun of hacking things, will let you know how things go.






                                          --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Muñiz <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Maybe you should try with something less energetic than an Mercury lamp
                                          > (also less expensive)
                                          >
                                          > For this resin: http://www.suscomp.com/resins.htm you may use less
                                          > energetic UVA (http://members.misty.com/don/uvbulb.html)
                                          >
                                          > You can find UV-A lamps and their spectra here:
                                          > http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/aphalo/photobio/lamps.html
                                          > http://prolight.info/philips.html
                                          >
                                          > Of course, you never know what UV range your photoframe LCD will react
                                          > to...
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 07:48 +0000, johnrpm@... wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "halebahay"
                                          > > <halebahay@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "johnrpm@"
                                          > > <johnrpm@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Here is a video of how to hack a lcd screen,
                                          > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lWqKHpGuc
                                          > > > > and make a projector, what if the projector had UV
                                          > > > > light, and using photosensitive resin a crude SLA
                                          > > > > could be built.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the more
                                          > > reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be
                                          > > effective.
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Bought a very cheap digital photoframe to hack and see if this works,
                                          > > the resolution is not high, it can take sd cards but also usb sticks
                                          > > and can be set to display images in time slots or by manual mode, next
                                          > > I need to get a mercury lamp and see how long it lasts subjected to
                                          > > UV.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Fernando Muñiz
                                          If the lcd panel is made of regular glass it will filter out all UV ranges. Transparent plastics usually let UV through in different amounts, unless they have
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jun 16, 2009
                                            If the lcd panel is made of regular glass it will filter out all UV ranges.
                                            Transparent plastics usually let UV through in different amounts, unless they have been added UV filters (likely)
                                            And the big IF here is if the LCD crystals will take the battering from UV radiation for long.

                                            Let's say that for experiment sake, this is really interesting, but It's good that the photoframe was cheap... :)

                                            On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 10:05 +0000, johnrpm@... wrote:


                                            Thanks for the links Fernando,
                                            After writing the post I realized that I could use some uv tubes
                                            from a unit I have for making circuit boards, at present I use a laser printer and iron method to make circuit boards, but the photoframe and uv method,(if it has the resolution) may work for this also, it may be that the lcd panel will not pass the uv light, depends on what material its made from?, or it may not last for more than a few minutes?, but thats part of the fun of hacking things, will let you know how things go.

                                            --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Muñiz <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Maybe you should try with something less energetic than an Mercury lamp
                                            > (also less expensive)
                                            >
                                            > For this resin: http://www.suscomp.com/resins.htm you may use less
                                            > energetic UVA (http://members.misty.com/don/uvbulb.html)
                                            >
                                            > You can find UV-A lamps and their spectra here:
                                            > http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/aphalo/photobio/lamps.html
                                            > http://prolight.info/philips.html
                                            >
                                            > Of course, you never know what UV range your photoframe LCD will react
                                            > to...
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 07:48 +0000, johnrpm@... wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "halebahay"
                                            > > <halebahay@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "johnrpm@"
                                            > > <johnrpm@> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Here is a video of how to hack a lcd screen,
                                            > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lWqKHpGuc
                                            > > > > and make a projector, what if the projector had UV
                                            > > > > light, and using photosensitive resin a crude SLA
                                            > > > > could be built.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Somwhere I read that The UV will destroy the LCD cells, the more
                                            > > reliable is the DLP technology, it must be at 5000 lumines to be
                                            > > effective.
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Bought a very cheap digital photoframe to hack and see if this works,
                                            > > the resolution is not high, it can take sd cards but also usb sticks
                                            > > and can be set to display images in time slots or by manual mode, next
                                            > > I need to get a mercury lamp and see how long it lasts subjected to
                                            > > UV.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >




                                          • Boman33
                                            Thanks Fernando, Very good links that I have saved for the future. Bertho From: Fernando Muñiz Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 05:21 Maybe you should try with
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jun 16, 2009

                                              Thanks Fernando,

                                              Very good links that I have saved for the future.

                                              Bertho

                                               

                                               

                                              From: Fernando Muñiz    Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 05:21
                                              Maybe you should try with something less energetic than an Mercury lamp (also less expensive)

                                              For this resin: http://www.suscomp.com/resins.htm you may use less energetic UVA

                                               

                                              (http://members.misty.com/don/uvbulb.html)

                                              You can find UV-A lamps and their spectra here:
                                              http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/aphalo/photobio/lamps.html
                                              http://prolight.info/philips.html

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