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Re: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Junior's video

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  • Fernando
    I see. At this moment, it is becoming crucial that we have a wokring build platform available to experiment on this issue. You say yours will not be up and
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 1, 2011
      I see. At this moment, it is becoming crucial that we have a wokring
      build platform available to experiment on this issue. You say yours will
      not be up and running until july or will you be starting the build by
      then?
      It's great that you are using an already working modular design (CNC Z
      axis, software, Dymax...), that should save you some time and go right
      for the crux of that matter of the non-stick issue.


      On Wed, 2011-06-01 at 22:36 +0000, vrsculptor@... wrote:
      >
      > Frenando,
      > Junior's early design (blue dyed plastic) had the build tray tilt down
      > a little bit at the front before lifting. Envision also does this. I
      > don't know if he continued along this path. I never thought it was
      > essential.
      >
      > Roger
      >
      > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Fernando
      > <spacecaptain@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Do I recall well or did he previously have a video where he showed
      > the
      > > first few cycles in real speed and has now replaced the video with a
      > > full time-lapse version without any details?
      > >
      > > It seems that he is obfuscating his whole design more and more.
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • pzamov
      The original thread: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication/message/1460 Anyone has that original video downloaded? Please share.
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 1, 2011
        The original thread:

        http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication/message/1460

        Anyone has that original video downloaded?
        Please share.

        --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Couch" <cmichaelcouch@...> wrote:
        >
        > Looking back at Junior's video, I see no shaking or tilting going on here. It is just built from the top down on supports. Looks like he is just focusing through the fluid onto the glass fixture and then onto subsequent layers of part.
        >
        > Michael Couch
        >
      • Boman33
        I do not remember anyone saying that air will get into the resin when separating after a build cycle. I wrote that if two plates are separated under liquid a
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 2, 2011

          I do not remember anyone saying that air will get into the resin when separating after a build cycle.  I wrote that if two plates are separated under liquid a lot of force will be needed.  If the force is large enough and fast enough there will be a temporary vacuum between the plates until the resin has flown in to fill the gap.

          What might be confusing is that there is a design where an elastic layer is added to the glass plate.  That layer is initially moving up with the platform when lifted and later breaks free.  To avoid the vacuum problem air is allowed to enter in-between the glass and that layer.

          Bertho

          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

          From: CD Video  Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 23:48

          What I remember about the first video was the snap of the separation after each layer was done.  I think what he had done was raise the platform high enough to release from the bottom then lowered it down to level of the next layer. Also there was a tilt to the build tank. 

          Why not raise the part enough to break the bond but also give the tank  a  bit of rotation break the bond and rotate back, it only would require a few degrees of rotation and help will flow the material under the object.

           

          Everyone says that air would get into the  build but if everything is submerged no air will get in you may get a cavitation type bubble but the fluid show flow back in to the area as it would be a vacuum sucking the material back in and when you lower the piece do to the next layer it would push execs material out from under the build.  So the sequence would be

           Expose layer

          Raise platform (say 5 mm to break bond) rotate tank can be done with a solenoid at same time

          Lower platform 4.9 mm release solenoid

          Expose next layer

          Repeat cycle  

          Dan C

           

        • Michael Couch
          I really doubt that Junior edited the video to remove the breaking motion. More likely he just pushed a digital high speed button which selected ever Nth
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 2, 2011
            I really doubt that Junior edited the video to remove the breaking motion. More likely he just pushed a digital high speed button which selected ever Nth frame. In which case it is unlikely that he could have omitted all the tension breaking.

            However, there is a possibility that they would sync up time wise and create the same effect, so ignore this post, lol.

            Michael

            --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "Boman33" <boman33@...> wrote:
            >
            > I do not remember anyone saying that air will get into the resin when
            > separating after a build cycle. I wrote that if two plates are separated
            > under liquid a lot of force will be needed. If the force is large enough
            > and fast enough there will be a temporary vacuum between the plates until
            > the resin has flown in to fill the gap.
            >
            > What might be confusing is that there is a design where an elastic layer is
            > added to the glass plate. That layer is initially moving up with the
            > platform when lifted and later breaks free. To avoid the vacuum problem air
            > is allowed to enter in-between the glass and that layer.
            >
            > Bertho
            >
            > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            >
            > From: CD Video Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 23:48
            >
            > What I remember about the first video was the snap of the separation after
            > each layer was done. I think what he had done was raise the platform high
            > enough to release from the bottom then lowered it down to level of the next
            > layer. Also there was a tilt to the build tank.
            >
            > Why not raise the part enough to break the bond but also give the tank a
            > bit of rotation break the bond and rotate back, it only would require a few
            > degrees of rotation and help will flow the material under the object.
            >
            >
            >
            > Everyone says that air would get into the build but if everything is
            > submerged no air will get in you may get a cavitation type bubble but the
            > fluid show flow back in to the area as it would be a vacuum sucking the
            > material back in and when you lower the piece do to the next layer it would
            > push execs material out from under the build. So the sequence would be
            >
            > Expose layer
            >
            > Raise platform (say 5 mm to break bond) rotate tank can be done with a
            > solenoid at same time
            >
            > Lower platform 4.9 mm release solenoid
            >
            > Expose next layer
            >
            > Repeat cycle
            >
            > Dan C
            >
          • Jon Elson
            ... I did see the original video, and I believe Junior also stated that he had solved the breaking free problem to a HUGE extent. I think there was still a
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 2, 2011
              Michael Couch wrote:
              > I really doubt that Junior edited the video to remove the breaking motion. More likely he just pushed a digital high speed button which selected ever Nth frame. In which case it is unlikely that he could have omitted all the tension breaking.
              >
              I did see the original video, and I believe Junior also stated that he
              had solved the breaking free problem to a HUGE
              extent. I think there was still a faint click when the model was
              raised, but it was 100 times smaller than the huge
              bang that resulted from his first version of the gizmo.

              Jon
            • pzamov
              Look at the video carefully ( use VLC player and download the flv - go frame by frame )- upper left corner of the vat and lower right corner of the vat. Upper
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 2, 2011
                Look at the video carefully ( use VLC player and download the flv - go frame by frame )- upper left corner of the vat and lower right corner of the vat.

                Upper left - see the trace of the FILM - plastic - like kitchen cling wrap???

                Lower right - see the double meniscus formed on the wall of the vat and on the film corner?



                --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:
                >
                > Michael Couch wrote:
                > > I really doubt that Junior edited the video to remove the breaking motion. More likely he just pushed a digital high speed button which selected ever Nth frame. In which case it is unlikely that he could have omitted all the tension breaking.
                > >
                > I did see the original video, and I believe Junior also stated that he
                > had solved the breaking free problem to a HUGE
                > extent. I think there was still a faint click when the model was
                > raised, but it was 100 times smaller than the huge
                > bang that resulted from his first version of the gizmo.
                >
                > Jon
                >
              • pzamov
                Proof of tilt and film or nylon or polycarbonate ??? Who knows since JR is not forthcoming about it, but we can see it. http://tinypic.com/r/2qio4r4/7 The
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 2, 2011
                  Proof of tilt and film or nylon or polycarbonate ???
                  Who knows since JR is not forthcoming about it, but we can see it.
                  http://tinypic.com/r/2qio4r4/7
                  The tilting might not be necessary if the film or foil works and he can replace a nylon bag every time he prints, and costs next to nothing.

                  Another capture from the video( there is a Word attachment from someone else here with the same pic) - I just noticed the double meniscus http://tinypic.com/r/2lk362x/7




                  --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Couch" <cmichaelcouch@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I really doubt that Junior edited the video to remove the breaking motion. More likely he just pushed a digital high speed button which selected ever Nth frame. In which case it is unlikely that he could have omitted all the tension breaking.
                  >
                  > However, there is a possibility that they would sync up time wise and create the same effect, so ignore this post, lol.
                  >
                  > Michael
                  >
                  > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "Boman33" <boman33@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I do not remember anyone saying that air will get into the resin when
                  > > separating after a build cycle. I wrote that if two plates are separated
                  > > under liquid a lot of force will be needed. If the force is large enough
                  > > and fast enough there will be a temporary vacuum between the plates until
                  > > the resin has flown in to fill the gap.
                  > >
                  > > What might be confusing is that there is a design where an elastic layer is
                  > > added to the glass plate. That layer is initially moving up with the
                  > > platform when lifted and later breaks free. To avoid the vacuum problem air
                  > > is allowed to enter in-between the glass and that layer.
                  > >
                  > > Bertho
                  > >
                  > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                  > >
                  > > From: CD Video Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 23:48
                  > >
                  > > What I remember about the first video was the snap of the separation after
                  > > each layer was done. I think what he had done was raise the platform high
                  > > enough to release from the bottom then lowered it down to level of the next
                  > > layer. Also there was a tilt to the build tank.
                  > >
                  > > Why not raise the part enough to break the bond but also give the tank a
                  > > bit of rotation break the bond and rotate back, it only would require a few
                  > > degrees of rotation and help will flow the material under the object.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Everyone says that air would get into the build but if everything is
                  > > submerged no air will get in you may get a cavitation type bubble but the
                  > > fluid show flow back in to the area as it would be a vacuum sucking the
                  > > material back in and when you lower the piece do to the next layer it would
                  > > push execs material out from under the build. So the sequence would be
                  > >
                  > > Expose layer
                  > >
                  > > Raise platform (say 5 mm to break bond) rotate tank can be done with a
                  > > solenoid at same time
                  > >
                  > > Lower platform 4.9 mm release solenoid
                  > >
                  > > Expose next layer
                  > >
                  > > Repeat cycle
                  > >
                  > > Dan C
                  > >
                  >
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