Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Using the Reprap motherboard on a milling machine for 3D ABS Printing

Expand Messages
  • Boman33
    Hi Dan, Now we are in the same boat paddling in the right direction. The extruder that I started to design is using a stepper for easy & exact control without
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 9, 2010

      Hi Dan,

      Now we are in the same boat paddling in the right direction.

      The extruder that I started to design is using a stepper for easy & exact control without having to go the servo route.

       

      I would start using the RepRap heater assembly since you have it and a lot of effort has gone into the design of it.  You can always use an external temperature controller instead of the RepRap mother board. 

       

      I also started to design a heater assembly and I am assuming that you can later substitute your own.

      I am happy to hear about you progress!  Thanks for the update.

      Bertho

       

      From: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com [mailto:diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of danmauch
      Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:32
      To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Using the Reprap motherboard on a milling machine for 3D ABS Printing

       

       

      I have made a lot of progress. I decided that replicator17 just wasn't up running most XYZ machines dute to a lack of ramping and the limitations of it pulse engine. So I had an idea. Why not take the G code that Replicator produces by converting a stl file into slices, post process it and produces the G code and then Run it in Mach3. So I set up a Gecko G540 connected to a precision XYZ stage that uses 5 TPI ball screws on the XY axes and a 20TPI leadscrew on the Z axis. I configured Mach3 for metric and set the step and acceleration. I found by jogging that I could increase the acceleration to 500 mm sec/sec and saw that the machine was able to run the replicator generated G code with no problem. Ramping was almost not detectable.
      I then figured out, but haven't impemented it yet, that I could use a standard text editor such as notepad to change the M code generated by the post processor in Replicator to M3 for extruder motor forward, M4 for reverse, M5 for stop and Snnn for speed. That would require a stepper motor on the extruder to feed the filament.

      That leave the last problem that I know of to be solved. I am mentally debating whether or not to use the existing heating element or to build my own. I have an injection moulding machine that I built years ago and thought that I could use the heating cartride and thermostat from it. This would eliminate the need for the repap mother board all together. You would simply use replicator G 0017 to process stl files then export them to Mach3.

      Dan Mauch
      www.camtronics-cnc.com
      dmauch@...
      Low cost stepper and servo motors.
      Gecko Drives, cases kits assembled units

      --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "Boman33" <boman33@...> wrote:

      >
      > Well, I am in a similar boat.
      >
      > I have been intending to not use the motherboard since I want full control
      > over the process.
      >
      > If the software can generate G code (or be translated) for X - Y -Z it
      could
      > drive any mill, router, or laser plotter and it could be stepper or servo
      > driven with proper ramping during acceleration. The extrusion rate could
      be
      > controlled by a fake spindle speed. Unfortunately, I am presently way too
      > busy to actively work on this project.
      >
      > Bertho
      >
      > www.vinland.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > From: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of
      > mjcox1974
      > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 20:27
      > To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Using the Reprap
      motherboard
      > on a milling machine for 3D ABS Printing
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > This is really good information, thanks.
      >
      > I am currently gearing up to do exactly the same thing - I have a cnc xyz
      > platform that is stepper driven, and I intend to connect up the reprap
      > motherboad to drive the steppers.
      >
      > I'm also using a stepper on the extruder, so it would be possible to ramp
      > the filament feed rate in concert with the motion, but the actual rate of
      > extrusion probably lags behind the filament feed rate by some complex
      > relationship I'm sure.
      >
      > I always did intend to print parts for a separate mendel chassis to free
      up
      > the cnc platform as an early step.
      >

    • Jack@coats.org
      You might want to check the REPRAP software, but I think that in addition to temp control, it controls pressure on the material (even backing pressure off when
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 9, 2010
        You might want to check the REPRAP software, but I think that in
        addition to temp
        control, it controls pressure on the material (even backing pressure
        off when there
        are 'breaks' in the need to have material deposited.

        Just a thought, so if you take their software out of the mix, you will
        have a few different
        issues to cover as well.

        ... Jack
      • danmauch
        I have read just about everything on the reprap site and there is no indication, that I can find, that it has of sensing if there is too much pressure on the
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 11, 2010
          I have read just about everything on the reprap site and there is no indication, that I can find, that it has of sensing if there is too much pressure on the filament going into the extruder. And from a actual experience I sheared the nylon bolts that hold the heating elemt to the drive mechanism twice while changing filaments.
          I recall that there are some formulas for the deposition rate and I plan to use those for setting up mach3 feed rate as a spindle rpm.
          But I will be very mindful of your in case your right.
          Dan Mauch
          www.camtronics-cnc.com
          low cost case for Gecko products. Kits and assembled units.

          --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "Jack@..." <jack@...> wrote:
          >
          > You might want to check the REPRAP software, but I think that in
          > addition to temp
          > control, it controls pressure on the material (even backing pressure
          > off when there
          > are 'breaks' in the need to have material deposited.
          >
          > Just a thought, so if you take their software out of the mix, you will
          > have a few different
          > issues to cover as well.
          >
          > ... Jack
          >
        • danmauch
          I have been working on modifications to the Plastruder MK4 dxf files that I d/led from www.thingiverse.com to use a stepper motor instead of the dc motor. I
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 11, 2010
            I have been working on modifications to the Plastruder MK4 dxf files that I d/led from www.thingiverse.com to use a stepper motor instead of the dc motor. I have the drawings mods nearly done and using my laser cutter should be cutting some parts today.

            Dan Mauch
            www.camtronics-cnc.com
            stepper and servo motors, kits and assembled units.

            --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "Boman33" <boman33@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Dan,
            >
            > Now we are in the same boat paddling in the right direction.
            >
            > The extruder that I started to design is using a stepper for easy & exact
            > control without having to go the servo route.
            >
            >
            >
          • Boman33
            Dan, Pressure can be controlled without measuring it by predicting viscosity at known temperature and feed rate. I have not seen anything about actually
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 11, 2010

              Dan,

              Pressure can be “controlled” without measuring it by predicting viscosity at known temperature and feed rate.  I have not seen anything about actually measuring the pressure.  On a DC motor the current could be monitored.  As also mentioned the pressure can be set to negative by slightly backing up the filament.

               

              I plan to control the pressure on the filament feeder wheels so they will slip if the pressure gets too high.

              Bertho

               

              From: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com [mailto:diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of danmauch
              Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 11:10
              To: diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication] Re: Using the Reprap motherboard on a milling machine for 3D ABS Printing

               

               

              I have read just about everything on the reprap site and there is no indication, that I can find, that it has of sensing if there is too much pressure on the filament going into the extruder. And from a actual experience I sheared the nylon bolts that hold the heating elemt to the drive mechanism twice while changing filaments.
              I recall that there are some formulas for the deposition rate and I plan to use those for setting up mach3 feed rate as a spindle rpm.
              But I will be very mindful of your in case your right.
              Dan Mauch
              www.camtronics-cnc.com
              low cost case for Gecko products. Kits and assembled units.

              --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "Jack@..." <jack@...> wrote:

              >
              > You might want to check the REPRAP software, but I think that in
              > addition to temp
              > control, it controls pressure on the material (even backing pressure
              > off when there
              > are 'breaks' in the need to have material deposited.
              >
              > Just a thought, so if you take their software out of the mix, you will
              > have a few different
              > issues to cover as well.
              >
              > ... Jack

            • buzz
              I m guessing you don t know.... but maybe you should have done a tad more research before re-inventing the wheel? ( or in this case a stepper driven extruder
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 11, 2010
                I'm guessing you don't know.... but maybe you should have done a tad more research before re-inventing the wheel?  ( or in this case a stepper driven extruder ).   Maybe you do know.... but in either case, it may be valuable to someone here:

                direct-driven stepper extruder by reprap:
                http://reprap.org/wiki/Mendel_extruder

                higher-power geared stepper extruder by reprap:
                http://reprap.org/wiki/Geared_Nema17_Extruder_Driver

                both of these are quite well tested and popular in the reprap community.    Personally, I have one of the second extruder/s ( the geared one).     

                In practice, measuring the pressure inside these extruder/s would be very difficult to achieve, and for little benefit.    The best methodology ( which everyone currently uses) is to tightly couple a thermistor or thermocouple to the "hot zone", and never run the stepper driver unless the temperature is high-enough to prevent extreme pressure situation/s.   (HINT:  don't try to drive 3mm solid plastic through a 0.4mm hole at room temperature).

                Buzz.
                ( Core reprap team member. )

                On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:14 AM, danmauch <dmauch@...> wrote:
                 

                I have been working on modifications to the Plastruder MK4 dxf files that I d/led from www.thingiverse.com to use a stepper motor instead of the dc motor. I have the drawings mods nearly done and using my laser cutter should be cutting some parts today.

                stepper and servo motors, kits and assembled units.


                --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "Boman33" <boman33@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Dan,
                >
                > Now we are in the same boat paddling in the right direction.
                >
                > The extruder that I started to design is using a stepper for easy & exact
                > control without having to go the servo route.
                >
                >
                >


              • danmauch
                I was aware of the other designs but I passed over them because they looked like you would need a 3D printer to make the parts. And since my 3d printer isn t
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 14, 2010
                  I was aware of the other designs but I passed over them because they looked like you would need a 3D printer to make the parts. And since my 3d printer isn't going to use the medel/cupcake XYZ axis but was using a plastruder MK4 with mach3 required me to modify the plastruder design so I could use a stepper motor with the G540. The change I made other than the motor mount were to machine a knurled idler which should limit any slipping. Thanks for the links as it did remind me thatthe second design which you made was indeed superior to others.
                  Dan
                  www.camtronics-cnc.com
                  stepper and servo motors.
                  Gecko products, kits and assembled unit.

                  --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, buzz <davidbuzz@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm guessing you don't know.... but maybe you should have done a tad more
                  > research before re-inventing the wheel? ( or in this case a stepper driven
                  > extruder ). Maybe you do know.... but in either case, it may be valuable
                  > to someone here:
                  >
                  > direct-driven stepper extruder by reprap:
                  > http://reprap.org/wiki/Mendel_extruder
                  >
                  > higher-power geared stepper extruder by reprap:
                  > http://reprap.org/wiki/Geared_Nema17_Extruder_Driver
                  >
                  > both of these are quite well tested and popular in the reprap community.
                  > Personally, I have one of the second extruder/s ( the geared one).
                  >
                  > In practice, measuring the pressure inside these extruder/s would be very
                  > difficult to achieve, and for little benefit. The best methodology (
                  > which everyone currently uses) is to tightly couple a thermistor or
                  > thermocouple to the "hot zone", and never run the stepper driver unless the
                  > temperature is high-enough to prevent extreme pressure situation/s.
                  > (HINT: don't try to drive 3mm solid plastic through a 0.4mm hole at room
                  > temperature).
                  >
                  > Buzz.
                  > ( Core reprap team member. )
                  >
                • M Ganter
                  I second that idea of either looking at the RepRap Adian extruder OR the Wade s extruder from Thingiverse. We ve been associated with over 6 Mendel s running
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 14, 2010
                    I second that idea of either looking at the RepRap Adian extruder OR
                    the Wade's extruder from Thingiverse.

                    We've been associated with over 6 Mendel's running Wade's extruder.
                    Wade's is a stepper
                    motor drive and is VERY strong. It is rock solid and uses a helical
                    worm gear pinion (which you make yourself - instructions are
                    available). Good luck.

                    On 7/14/2010 7:58 AM, danmauch wrote:
                    >
                    > I was aware of the other designs but I passed over them because they
                    > looked like you would need a 3D printer to make the parts. And since
                    > my 3d printer isn't going to use the medel/cupcake XYZ axis but was
                    > using a plastruder MK4 with mach3 required me to modify the plastruder
                    > design so I could use a stepper motor with the G540. The change I made
                    > other than the motor mount were to machine a knurled idler which
                    > should limit any slipping. Thanks for the links as it did remind me
                    > thatthe second design which you made was indeed superior to others.
                    > Dan
                    > www.camtronics-cnc.com
                    > stepper and servo motors.
                    > Gecko products, kits and assembled unit.
                    >
                    > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication%40yahoogroups.com>, buzz
                    > <davidbuzz@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I'm guessing you don't know.... but maybe you should have done a tad
                    > more
                    > > research before re-inventing the wheel? ( or in this case a stepper
                    > driven
                    > > extruder ). Maybe you do know.... but in either case, it may be valuable
                    > > to someone here:
                    > >
                    > > direct-driven stepper extruder by reprap:
                    > > http://reprap.org/wiki/Mendel_extruder
                    > >
                    > > higher-power geared stepper extruder by reprap:
                    > > http://reprap.org/wiki/Geared_Nema17_Extruder_Driver
                    > >
                    > > both of these are quite well tested and popular in the reprap community.
                    > > Personally, I have one of the second extruder/s ( the geared one).
                    > >
                    > > In practice, measuring the pressure inside these extruder/s would be
                    > very
                    > > difficult to achieve, and for little benefit. The best methodology (
                    > > which everyone currently uses) is to tightly couple a thermistor or
                    > > thermocouple to the "hot zone", and never run the stepper driver
                    > unless the
                    > > temperature is high-enough to prevent extreme pressure situation/s.
                    > > (HINT: don't try to drive 3mm solid plastic through a 0.4mm hole at room
                    > > temperature).
                    > >
                    > > Buzz.
                    > > ( Core reprap team member. )
                    > >
                    >
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.