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Re: Zcorp powder experimentation (take II)

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  • matthiaswm
    I had some OK results with ultrafine alabaster plaster and my Water/Alcohol mix. The printout is good assuming that the plaster dries completely. I had to
    Message 1 of 24 , May 29 2:16 AM
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      I had some OK results with ultrafine alabaster plaster and my Water/Alcohol mix. The printout is good assuming that the plaster dries completely. I had to leave it in the (unheated) bed for three days!

      The powder spreading did not work so well: the plaster is so fine that it clumps slightly and tears when the roller crosses the supply chamber. As a result I get grooves in the build chamber.

      Did anyone find the "prefect" plaster yet?
    • raiorz
      ... You got the key answers: Alabaster plaster is perfect, but as you wrote, it is so fine . Try to get alabaster plaster with 20 to 80 micron. Call the
      Message 2 of 24 , May 29 4:55 AM
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        --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "matthiaswm" <matthiaswm@...> wrote:
        >
        > I had some OK results with ultrafine alabaster plaster and my Water/Alcohol mix. The printout is good assuming that the plaster dries completely. I had to leave it in the (unheated) bed for three days!
        >
        > The powder spreading did not work so well: the plaster is too fine that it clumps slightly and tears when the roller crosses the supply chamber. As a result I get grooves in the build chamber.
        >
        > Did anyone find the "prefect" plaster yet?

        You got the key answers: Alabaster plaster is perfect, but as you wrote, "it is so fine".
        Try to get alabaster plaster with 20 to 80 micron. Call the manofactor (not distributor)...
        BTW: the space between those larger grain make the plaster "roll" like sand in a sand-clock. This is a must for good spreading with a roller. A second point: It is better for binder (the binder can "flow" much better)

        Rai
      • threedeelabs
        There are a number of factors that contribute to a great zcorp powder: - Grain size distribution:  this is probably the most important factor in getting a
        Message 3 of 24 , May 29 12:42 PM
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          There are a number of factors that contribute to a great zcorp powder:

          - Grain size distribution:  this is probably the most important factor in getting a powder that produces smooth parts.  It's not as simple as finding a fine-grained plaster.  The goal is to get the right MIX of grain sizes.  You need both large and small particles, and zcorp has the "secret formula" for these size distributions.  In fact, it's the reason why zcorp tells you to always mix 50% of the powder that ends up in the overflow bin with new powder.  The overflow bin tends to collect all large particles, and you need to remix it with fresh powder to get the powder size distribution correct again.  In looking at their patents, I've found some interesting things:

          There's a technique they describe for determining if the powder you make has the right mix of particles.  They call the measurement the "Brendt value".  It's named after the inventor of the zcorp process.  It's basically a measurement of powder flow.  The technique is to make a cylinder, fill it with the powder you want to test, and roll it slowly (on your kitchen table for example).  The idea is to measure how many inches the cylinder rolls until the powder caves in on itself.  There's a formula for figuring out if your powder falls within the accepted Brendt value.

          The good news is you can adjust the flow parameter by adding mineral oil to your powder.  It sounds strange to add a liquid to your powder, but it actually works.  You need to mix it for a long time :)

          Another thing that the brendt value affects is "squash".  Squash is where your parts droop in the powder.  It's most evident when you print something circular.  If it comes out oblong, you have squash.

          From the patent:

          [0132]A method that may be used to quantify a particulate material's suitability for three dimensional printing includes placing 1 liter in bulk volume of a particulate material in a metal cylinder with an inside dimension of 6.1 inches, and inside height of 6.2 inches so that the height of the powder is between 2.5 to 3.0 inches when the cylinder is capped with a translucent cover and laid on its side (i.e., the height of the cylinder is horizontal). The drum is then slowly rolled with a rotational velocity of 2.5 rotations/min ±0.5 rotations/min until the powder reaches an angle where it avalanches upon itself. The distance that the drum rolled, s, is recorded and the angle, ö, can be determined from equation 8: 

          Where r would equal the outside radius of the drum.  The angle, ö, is the internal angle of friction that particulate material has under these particular test conditions at a room temperature between 65 to 75° F. Various particulate materials known to have good and bad spreading characteristics are compared using this test method, and desirable range of internal angles of friction were determined. Table 10 summarizes the particulate material compositions that were measured. 


          Read more: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080281019#ixzz0pKkMnrxa




          - Most zcorp powders consist of:

          Plaster
          PVA
          Maltodextrin
          Terra Alba (a small amount)

          The  Terra Alba is important for fast drying.  But adding too much will cause it to dry too fast and crack.


          - Binder
          I have discovered the perfect binder for zcorp printers.  I'm willing to share the exact recipe if people are interested.  The binder I use works much better than the alcohol binders used so far in this group.  
          The secret for a great binder is simple.  There's a limited number of ingredients that will flow through an HP printhead, so the zcorp system relies on the powder to do the "heavy lifting". The binder is mainly water.
          The issue is, the water has to have a very specific surface tension and viscosity or it will make the printhead fail.  With my binder, I can purge the printheads several times in a row and not have failures.  I've made parts using my binder and zcorp powder and the results are identical to their binder.

          From information obtained through patents, an HP10 or 11 cartridge needs:

          Surface tension: 45 dynes/cm
          Viscosity: 1.35 cps


          My binder has:
          Distilled Water
          Surfynol 465
          Glycerol
          Potassium Sulfate

          The Surfynol is obtained free as a sample. You can do it directly from the Air Products web site.  You don't need much, so a sample bottle lasts a while
          The potassium sulfate works with the terra alba in the powder to dry the powder faster.  People who work with plaster will tell you that Plaster + Terra Alba + Potassium sulfate is the magic combination.

          For color binders, just add some Inkjet Colorant (about 3%).  Cabot inks is a great source.

          I hope this helps.




          --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "raiorz" <raiorz@...> wrote:
          >
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          >
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          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "matthiaswm" <matthiaswm@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I had some OK results with ultrafine alabaster plaster and my Water/Alcohol mix. The printout is good assuming that the plaster dries completely. I had to leave it in the (unheated) bed for three days!
          > >
          > > The powder spreading did not work so well: the plaster is too fine that it clumps slightly and tears when the roller crosses the supply chamber. As a result I get grooves in the build chamber.
          > >
          > > Did anyone find the "prefect" plaster yet?
          >
          > You got the key answers: Alabaster plaster is perfect, but as you wrote, "it is so fine".
          > Try to get alabaster plaster with 20 to 80 micron. Call the manofactor (not distributor)...
          > BTW: the space between those larger grain make the plaster "roll" like sand in a sand-clock. This is a must for good spreading with a roller. A second point: It is better for binder (the binder can "flow" much better)
          >
          > Rai
          >
        • matthiaswm
          ... Wow! This is close to what I do, plus some nice additions. Do you have the ratios? I use the Canon cartridges, bubble jet instead of piezzo system as in
          Message 4 of 24 , May 30 12:04 PM
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            --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "threedeelabs" <threedlabs@...> wrote:
            >
            > Plaster
            > PVA...

            > Distilled Water
            > Surfynol 465...

            Wow! This is close to what I do, plus some nice additions. Do you have the ratios? I use the Canon cartridges, bubble jet instead of piezzo system as in HP. Do you think it would work as well?
          • alienrelics
            ... HP is bubblejet. Among desktop printers, Epson is the only one using piezo heads. Steve Greenfield
            Message 5 of 24 , May 31 6:31 AM
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              --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "matthiaswm" <matthiaswm@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "threedeelabs" <threedlabs@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Plaster
              > > PVA...
              >
              > > Distilled Water
              > > Surfynol 465...
              >
              > Wow! This is close to what I do, plus some nice additions. Do you have the ratios? I use the Canon cartridges, bubble jet instead of piezzo system as in HP. Do you think it would work as well?
              >

              HP is bubblejet. Among desktop printers, Epson is the only one using piezo heads.

              Steve Greenfield
            • Daniel
              Great post ! Would you please share percentages / ratios ?
              Message 6 of 24 , May 31 6:45 AM
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                Great post ! Would you please share percentages / ratios ?

                > My binder has:
                > Distilled Water
                > Surfynol 465
                > Glycerol
                > Potassium Sulfate
              • matthiaswm
                ... Oh, I did not know that. I am surprised then how different the complexity in running the cartridges is. The (old) Canon cartridges need many supply
                Message 7 of 24 , May 31 10:35 AM
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                  > HP is bubblejet. Among desktop printers, Epson is the only one using piezo heads.

                  Oh, I did not know that. I am surprised then how different the complexity in running the cartridges is. The (old) Canon cartridges need many supply voltages and offer temperature control and what-not, whereas the(old) HP cartridges are merely a matrix with a single 20V supply. I assume then that the HP and Canon cartridges have pretty much the same limitations in respect to ink/binder.

                  I have not looked at the Epson system - maybe I should start gathering information ;-)
                • threedeelabs
                  Sure, here s my binder: The potassium sulfate is optional. It s an accelerator for drying your plaster faster. I also add a small amount of preservative.
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jun 1, 2010
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                    Sure, here's my binder:

                    The potassium sulfate is optional. It's an accelerator for drying your plaster faster.

                    I also add a small amount of preservative. It's optional, but will make the binder last much longer. I use Proxel GXL. Note: this is a dangerous preservative in concentrated form, so be careful if you decide to use it!

                    I've been sing this binder for a year, and my printheads last as long as when using zcorp binder. I use this with HP printheads, but Canon should be similar.

                    You may need to fine tune the ratios depending on where you get your chemicals. There are two tools that are useful in fine tuning:

                    Surface Tensionometer
                    http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=5978090

                    Viscosity meter:
                    http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=0870100




                    Binder:

                    Percentage (amount needed for 1 gallon)

                    Distilled Water: 93.45% volume (3537 ml)
                    Surfynol 465: 0.5% volume (18.92 ml)
                    Glycerol: 6% volume (227.12 ml)
                    Potassium Sulfate: 0.2% weight (7.5 mg)
                    Proxel GXL: 0.05% volume (1.89 ml)


                    My sources:

                    Glycerol:
                    http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8816552&pfx=WU

                    Surfynol 465:
                    http://www.airproducts.com/chemsamples/ProductSelect.asp?strSearch=surfynol%20465&strQueryRun=1

                    Potassium Sulfate:
                    http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8822253

                    Proxel GXL:
                    http://www.archchemicals.com/Fed/BIO/Docs/Splash/Proxel-GXL.pdf





                    --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel" <dandumit@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Great post ! Would you please share percentages / ratios ?
                    >
                    > > My binder has:
                    > > Distilled Water
                    > > Surfynol 465
                    > > Glycerol
                    > > Potassium Sulfate
                    >
                  • threedeelabs
                    an interesting thing I found when I first made this binder was that it smelled just like zcorp binder. The surfynol seems to be what they use in many of their
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jun 1, 2010
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                      an interesting thing I found when I first made this binder was that it smelled just like zcorp binder. The surfynol seems to be what they use in many of their binders. It has an unmistakable smell...


                      --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel" <dandumit@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Great post ! Would you please share percentages / ratios ?
                      >
                      > > My binder has:
                      > > Distilled Water
                      > > Surfynol 465
                      > > Glycerol
                      > > Potassium Sulfate
                      >
                    • HottGal0
                      is it working for hp11 printhead (i mean z450 printer), i tried many recipes but always same errore message (hp11 overtemp). do i have to purge the hp11 or
                      Message 10 of 24 , Oct 23, 2011
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                        is it working for hp11 printhead (i mean z450 printer), i tried many recipes but always same errore message (hp11 overtemp).
                        do i have to purge the hp11 or not?
                        is there any alternative for surfynol?
                        is it working with salt powder?
                        Thanks

                        --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "threedeelabs" <threedlabs@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Sure, here's my binder:
                        >
                        > The potassium sulfate is optional. It's an accelerator for drying your plaster faster.
                        >
                        > I also add a small amount of preservative. It's optional, but will make the binder last much longer. I use Proxel GXL. Note: this is a dangerous preservative in concentrated form, so be careful if you decide to use it!
                        >
                        > I've been sing this binder for a year, and my printheads last as long as when using zcorp binder. I use this with HP printheads, but Canon should be similar.
                        >
                        > You may need to fine tune the ratios depending on where you get your chemicals. There are two tools that are useful in fine tuning:
                        >
                        > Surface Tensionometer
                        > http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=5978090
                        >
                        > Viscosity meter:
                        > http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=0870100
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Binder:
                        >
                        > Percentage (amount needed for 1 gallon)
                        >
                        > Distilled Water: 93.45% volume (3537 ml)
                        > Surfynol 465: 0.5% volume (18.92 ml)
                        > Glycerol: 6% volume (227.12 ml)
                        > Potassium Sulfate: 0.2% weight (7.5 mg)
                        > Proxel GXL: 0.05% volume (1.89 ml)
                        >
                        >
                        > My sources:
                        >
                        > Glycerol:
                        > http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8816552&pfx=WU
                        >
                        > Surfynol 465:
                        > http://www.airproducts.com/chemsamples/ProductSelect.asp?strSearch=surfynol%20465&strQueryRun=1
                        >
                        > Potassium Sulfate:
                        > http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8822253
                        >
                        > Proxel GXL:
                        > http://www.archchemicals.com/Fed/BIO/Docs/Splash/Proxel-GXL.pdf
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel" <dandumit@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Great post ! Would you please share percentages / ratios ?
                        > >
                        > > > My binder has:
                        > > > Distilled Water
                        > > > Surfynol 465
                        > > > Glycerol
                        > > > Potassium Sulfate
                        > >
                        >
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