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Re: Lee and Kirby on Radio 1987

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  • silveragerob
    Great so far. Shoved it on my kindle and work OK on it. Think I will adobe reader it tonight. Can t wait to see it in print though! R.S. Crawford
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 1, 2012
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      Great so far. Shoved it on my kindle and work OK on it. Think I will adobe reader it tonight. Can't wait to see it in print though!

      R.S. Crawford

      --- In ditkomania@yahoogroups.com, Robert Beerbohm <beerbohmrl@...> wrote:
      >
      > have not got it yet to know,
      > not that i know i got it yet, any way
      >
      > On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Finfangfoom <Finfangfoom@...>wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > Bob, you know you are mentioned in it!****
      > >
      > > ** **
      > >
      > > Be seeing you!****
      > >
      > > Barry, F.F.F.****
      > >
      > > ** **
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      >
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    • Finfangfoom
      ME TOO! Thanks Be seeing you! Barry, F.F.F.
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 1, 2012
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        ME TOO! Thanks

         

        Be seeing you!

        Barry, F.F.F.

         

      • Bruce Buchanan
        One difference may have been that Ditko was more likely to insist on proper credit, while Kirby was more likely to stew in silence, perhaps complain privately,
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 2, 2012
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          One difference may have been that Ditko was more likely to insist on proper credit, while Kirby was more likely to stew in silence, perhaps complain privately, but not raise the issue to Stan. Not saying either way is right or wrong, just that the two artists were wired differently when it came to dealing with conflict.

          From: Rob Imes <robimes@...>
          To: "ditkomania@yahoogroups.com" <ditkomania@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 11:52 AM
          Subject: Re: [ditkomania] Lee and Kirby on Radio 1987

           
          It's interesting to note that Ditko was eventually given credit (in the actual credit boxes in the published comics) for plotting the stories he drew for Lee, while Kirby was not. 

          In this interview, it's noted that Kirby wrote dialogue besides the panels, to explain what was being said.  Lee says that he ignored that dialogue and wrote his own. 

          What was the difference between one artist (Ditko) being credited with plot, and the other (Kirby) not?
            The work that they turned in to Lee would appear to have both been at a similar stage of development, and both containing material that was unfamiliar to him.  (Lee has admitted that Kirby adding the Surfer in FF #48 was something that Kirby did on his own.  Also, even if Lee had told Kirby a more detailed plot, he might have forgotten it by the time he received the penciled pages.  I recall one Marvel artist began recording his conversations with Lee because when he later called Lee to ask him about a detail in the plot that he had described, Lee had no recollection of what he had told the artist.)

          The difference may be due to the fact that Lee & Ditko were no longer speaking to each other.  Ditko has said that it was Lee who stopped speaking to him.  Perhaps this was Lee's way of saying that if Ditko insisted on plotting credit, he would get no plotting help from Lee through any conversation before drawing the story. 

          Lee's thinking must be that telling the artist "have Doctor Doom kidnap Sue" constitutes "a plot."  If anyone else had made that story suggestion, it would have received (at best) a mere "idea by ___" notation in the credits.  However, Lee was editor of the company, and wrote the credit boxes, always making sure that his name appeared first in them.

          Rob Imes

          From: Allen Smith <smithallen301@...>
          To: "ditkomania@yahoogroups.com" <ditkomania@yahoogroups.com>; "kirbys_universe@yahoogroups.com" <kirbys_universe@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 9:14 AM
          Subject: Re: [ditkomania] Lee and Kirby on Radio 1987

           
          Well, interesting exchange between Kirby and Lee there at the end of the interview.  A bit sad, really.  I agree with Lee that Kirby likely never looked at the dialogue or the finished product after he was done with it.  Now, it's uncontested that Stan wrote the dialogue, and the dialogue was important, but writing dialogue after the story has been written in terms of plot and action has its advantages.  It takes a lot of burden off the writer of dialogue, as he/she is reacting to what story the artist has plotted and drawn and depicted in the panels.  The dialoguer has that advantage.  A comic done Marvel style has two writers, the artist who's plotted and drawn the story, and the writer of dialogue.  So, Stan's credit likely should have read, in many Marvel stories, "Stan Lee: editor and co-writer, Jack Kirby (or whoever the artist might have been), co-writer and artist."  And that's not taking into account the idea that Kirby left notes that in some cases suggested what the dialogue should reflect.  I'd think the same thing applied to the stories that Ditko co-wrote.
           
               Allen Smith

          From: barryprl <Finfangfoom@...>
          To: ditkomania@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 1:30 AM
          Subject: [ditkomania] Lee and Kirby on Radio 1987

           
          I did a huge amount of research for my book. I collected hundreds of articles, interviews and transcription. This one, from Earth Watch on WBAI radio on Jack Kirby's birthday in 1987 is very interesting because towards the end, Stan Lee calls and he and Jack have a disagreement about credits.

          We have posted the transcript of the entire interview, along with audio of Jack and Stan discussing who wrote the dialog at:

          http://comicbookcollectorsclub.com/jack-kirby-and-stan-lee-radio-interview-earth-watch-wbai-1987/







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