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  • Ray Wozniak
    The hypcopcracy of this group is mirrored even in it s title. As I read this and reflect on my most recent venture into the Socialist mindset I find that I am
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 1, 2002
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      The hypcopcracy of this group is mirrored even in it's title. As I
      read this and reflect on my most recent venture into the Socialist
      mindset I find that I am not surprised. Considering the true ideal
      of AR has nothing to do with animals and everything to do with
      advancing a Socialist agenda then it makes sense that they really
      don't want ANY sort of opinion except those that completely support
      them. That's why true debate and discusion is to be avoided at all
      costs, so that it's propaganda message will not be interrupted.

      Enterprise

      AKA: The Blue Max
    • fairydoll_17
      Do you honestly think they have ulterior motives? It has everythoing to do with the animals...it s just that they went SOOOO overboard they don t make any
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 1, 2002
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        Do you honestly think they have ulterior motives? It has everythoing
        to do with the animals...it's just that they went SOOOO overboard
        they don't make any sense anymore. I remember a while back when a
        starving homeless man killed a pigeon to eat. The ARs swarmed all
        over this guy, I think he was charged because the police had to do
        something with all the commotion the ARs were causing. If a man is
        starving he should be able to eat a pigeon if that's his only option.

        Serena
        --- In discussanimalrights@y..., "Ray Wozniak" <wozw0rld@p...> wrote:
        > The hypcopcracy of this group is mirrored even in it's title. As I
        > read this and reflect on my most recent venture into the Socialist
        > mindset I find that I am not surprised. Considering the true ideal
        > of AR has nothing to do with animals and everything to do with
        > advancing a Socialist agenda then it makes sense that they really
        > don't want ANY sort of opinion except those that completely support
        > them. That's why true debate and discusion is to be avoided at all
        > costs, so that it's propaganda message will not be interrupted.
        >
        > Enterprise
        >
        > AKA: The Blue Max
      • Colleen Klaum
        Hmmmmm, it s called animal cruelty. They do have soup kitchens for the homeless, DUH!! *Colleen* (Catwoman) fairydoll_17 wrote:Do you
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 1, 2002
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          Hmmmmm, it's called animal cruelty. They do have soup kitchens for the homeless, DUH!!
          *Colleen* (Catwoman)

          fairydoll_17 <fairydoll_17@...> wrote:Do you honestly think they have ulterior motives? It has everythoing
          to do with the animals...it's just that they went SOOOO overboard
          they don't make any sense anymore. I remember a while back when a
          starving homeless man killed a pigeon to eat. The ARs swarmed all
          over this guy, I think he was charged because the police had to do
          something with all the commotion the ARs were causing. If a man is
          starving he should be able to eat a pigeon if that's his only option.

          Serena
          --- In discussanimalrights@y..., "Ray Wozniak" <wozw0rld@p...> wrote:
          > The hypcopcracy of this group is mirrored even in it's title. As I
          > read this and reflect on my most recent venture into the Socialist
          > mindset I find that I am not surprised. Considering the true ideal
          > of AR has nothing to do with animals and everything to do with
          > advancing a Socialist agenda then it makes sense that they really
          > don't want ANY sort of opinion except those that completely support
          > them. That's why true debate and discusion is to be avoided at all
          > costs, so that it's propaganda message will not be interrupted.
          >
          > Enterprise
          >
          > AKA: The Blue Max


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          "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts, and warmth to our souls."

          Colleen Klaum

          "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." Immanuel Kant











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        • Ray Wozniak
          ... everythoing ... Firstly I welcome your reply as you seem to be one of the few rational, intelligent voices that have emerged from this group. It is a
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 1, 2002
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            --- In discussanimalrights@y..., "fairydoll_17" <fairydoll_17@y...>
            wrote:
            > Do you honestly think they have ulterior motives? It has
            everythoing
            > to do with the animals...it's just that they went SOOOO overboard
            > they don't make any sense anymore.


            -----------------------Dear Serena,

            Firstly I welcome your reply as you
            seem to be one of the few rational, intelligent voices that have
            emerged from this group. It is a pleasure to talk to you.
            Second, I do indeed believe this, AR for the most part
            seems to involve only the most extreme and crazed individuals who
            all have one thing in common, a Socialist ultra left wing agenda.
            They use animals to gain sympothy from people who truely have their
            hearts in the right place, but are naive and ultimately taken in by
            this sham. They gain money and influence through this fraud (Last
            year Americans spent over $11 billion on their pets and pet supplies)
            and then use the money to finance other Socialist activities.
            People in this group have openly supported ALF, which is a violent,
            destructive gang one step below terrorists. You have seen for
            yourself the delight that Colleen exhibited when she learned that a
            hunter was shot. AR has nothing to do with animals, other than the
            lowlife cratures that exist off it's illgotten gain.

            Enterprise

            AKA: the Blue Max
            I remember a while back when a
            > starving homeless man killed a pigeon to eat. The ARs swarmed all
            > over this guy, I think he was charged because the police had to do
            > something with all the commotion the ARs were causing. If a man
            is
            > starving he should be able to eat a pigeon if that's his only
            option.
            >
            > Serena
            > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., "Ray Wozniak" <wozw0rld@p...>
            wrote:
            > > The hypcopcracy of this group is mirrored even in it's title.
            As I
            > > read this and reflect on my most recent venture into the
            Socialist
            > > mindset I find that I am not surprised. Considering the true
            ideal
            > > of AR has nothing to do with animals and everything to do with
            > > advancing a Socialist agenda then it makes sense that they
            really
            > > don't want ANY sort of opinion except those that completely
            support
            > > them. That's why true debate and discusion is to be avoided at
            all
            > > costs, so that it's propaganda message will not be interrupted.
            > >
            > > Enterprise
            > >
            > > AKA: The Blue Max
          • chcoa
            Wow that man should have been admited. Eating a sky rat? Now that s hungry. As far as alterior motives, I think there is some truth in what blue
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 1, 2002
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              Wow that man should have been admited. Eating a sky rat? Now that's
              hungry.

              As far as alterior motives, I think there is some truth in what blue
              speaks/writes. I think most individuals have nothing but the animals
              in mind. But some of these larger supposedly non-profit organizations
              are really just trying to gain enough support to lobby Congress and
              spread their evil anti-american agendas.

              --- In discussanimalrights@y..., "fairydoll_17" <fairydoll_17@y...>
              wrote:
              > Do you honestly think they have ulterior motives? It has
              everythoing
              > to do with the animals...it's just that they went SOOOO overboard
              > they don't make any sense anymore. I remember a while back when a
              > starving homeless man killed a pigeon to eat. The ARs swarmed all
              > over this guy, I think he was charged because the police had to do
              > something with all the commotion the ARs were causing. If a man is
              > starving he should be able to eat a pigeon if that's his only
              option.
              >
              > Serena
            • chcoa
              Colleen, I m sure this starving man would call it survival not cruelty. And have you ever been to a soup kitchen? They sometimes serve meat there as well.
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 1, 2002
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                Colleen, I'm sure this starving man would call it survival not
                cruelty. And have you ever been to a soup kitchen? They sometimes
                serve meat there as well. Wouldn't that basically be the same thing
                just without him personaly killing? Finally, you really shouldn't
                judge this man since you don't what his situation was.

                --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Hmmmmm, it's called animal cruelty. They do have soup kitchens for
                the homeless, DUH!!
                > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                >
              • Colleen Klaum
                I m not judging anybody, you are. Don t cover up the issue here about the soup kitchen. I can just imagine how you talk about homeless people. I help them out.
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 1, 2002
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                  I'm not judging anybody, you are. Don't cover up the issue here about the soup kitchen. I can just imagine how you talk about homeless people. I help them out.
                  *Colleen* (Catwoman)

                  chcoa <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Colleen, I'm sure this starving man would call it survival not
                  cruelty. And have you ever been to a soup kitchen? They sometimes
                  serve meat there as well. Wouldn't that basically be the same thing
                  just without him personaly killing? Finally, you really shouldn't
                  judge this man since you don't what his situation was.

                  --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hmmmmm, it's called animal cruelty. They do have soup kitchens for
                  the homeless, DUH!!
                  > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                  >



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                  "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts, and warmth to our souls."

                  Colleen Klaum

                  "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." Immanuel Kant











                  ---------------------------------
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • fairydoll_17
                  Ok, well, DUH! Obviously there were no soup kitchens around at the time or the guy would have went there. Lets think....warm, tasty soup, bloody diseased
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 2, 2002
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                    Ok, well, DUH! Obviously there were no soup kitchens around at the
                    time or the guy would have went there. Lets think....warm, tasty
                    soup, bloody diseased pigeon......yummy soup, dirty
                    pigeon.....hmmmm. And just because some ARs call it animal cruelty
                    doesn't change the fact that the man was starving and decided to do
                    the perfectly natural thing called hunting.

                    Serena
                    --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hmmmmm, it's called animal cruelty. They do have soup kitchens for
                    the homeless, DUH!!
                    > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                    >
                    > fairydoll_17 <fairydoll_17@y...> wrote:Do you honestly think they
                    have ulterior motives? It has everythoing
                    > to do with the animals...it's just that they went SOOOO overboard
                    > they don't make any sense anymore. I remember a while back when a
                    > starving homeless man killed a pigeon to eat. The ARs swarmed all
                    > over this guy, I think he was charged because the police had to do
                    > something with all the commotion the ARs were causing. If a man is
                    > starving he should be able to eat a pigeon if that's his only
                    option.
                    >
                    > Serena
                    > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., "Ray Wozniak" <wozw0rld@p...>
                    wrote:
                    > > The hypcopcracy of this group is mirrored even in it's title. As
                    I
                    > > read this and reflect on my most recent venture into the
                    Socialist
                    > > mindset I find that I am not surprised. Considering the true
                    ideal
                    > > of AR has nothing to do with animals and everything to do with
                    > > advancing a Socialist agenda then it makes sense that they really
                    > > don't want ANY sort of opinion except those that completely
                    support
                    > > them. That's why true debate and discusion is to be avoided at
                    all
                    > > costs, so that it's propaganda message will not be interrupted.
                    > >
                    > > Enterprise
                    > >
                    > > AKA: The Blue Max
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts,
                    and warmth to our souls."
                    >
                    > Colleen Klaum
                    >
                    > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with
                    men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                    Immanuel Kant
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • fairydoll_17
                    Hi- I really don t belive this to be true, but I respect you thoughts because you probably know things I don t, and I don t form opinions before knowing as
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 2, 2002
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                      Hi-
                      I really don't belive this to be true, but I respect you thoughts
                      because you probably know things I don't, and I don't form opinions
                      before knowing as much as I can. I've broken down your message so I
                      can point out the spots where I need clarification or just want to
                      say something:

                      <<AR for the most part seems to involve only the most extreme and
                      crazed individuals who>>

                      You sound as if you're referring to AR as a being. But there are so
                      many organisations out there, started by so many different people,
                      many who disagree on many points. So, from what I know, there is no
                      one AR group dictating to everyone what to believe

                      <<They use animals to gain sympothy from people who truely have their
                      hearts in the right place, but are naive and ultimately taken in by
                      this sham.>>

                      I don't believe that ingrid newkirk has any ulterior motives, other
                      than wanting pets to be gone and live in a vegan world, but we all
                      know that anyways. You sound really paranoid. I imagine you hiding
                      in a dark room with tinfoil on your head and dark circles under your
                      eyes from lack of sleep.:D Which groups do you mean? PETA? ALF?

                      <<Last year Americans spent over $11 billion on their pets and pet
                      supplies>>

                      Americans love their pets, what can I say? 11 billion probablyisn't
                      that much when compared with other things- what about shoes,
                      clothing, cars, tvs. I love to spend $$ on my pets too.

                      <<People in this group have openly supported ALF>>

                      Do you mean PETA?.....oh, you mean this group don't you? Well that
                      doesn't surprise me, there may be ALF members on this list, you never
                      know. And, like I said, they are so absorbed in the belief that
                      animals are pure, innocent little darling balls of fluff that they'd
                      do anything do help them, and support anything that was done. I
                      prefer to respect animals, not demean them by thinking they're
                      innocent little things that couldn't do a thing to help themselves.
                      We're the ones living in heated houses and soft warm beds and
                      pillows, feel sorry for us! We're pitiful!

                      Serena
                    • Ray Wozniak
                      ... so many organisations out there, started by so many different people, many who disagree on many points. So, from what I know, there is no one AR group
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 2, 2002
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                        --- In discussanimalrights@y..., "fairydoll_17" <fairydoll_17@y...>
                        > <<AR for the most part seems to involve only the most extreme and
                        > crazed individuals who>>
                        >
                        > You sound as if you're referring to AR as a being. But there are
                        so many organisations out there, started by so many different
                        people, many who disagree on many points. So, from what I know,
                        there is no one AR group dictating to everyone what to believe.

                        -------------------I find that even in the most middle of the road
                        organisations there tend to be those fringe elements that get seem
                        to go right over the edge and get crazy. I'm sure that it is these
                        people that get the most press, and of course the most recognition,
                        so this is where I get alot of my information. Now while I try to
                        not paint my critisisms with too wide a brush, sometimes it seems
                        impossible to differeniate the "Good" animal organisations from
                        their evil counterparts. Also, PETA, ALF et all, never seem to feel
                        inclined toward seperating themselves from their more extreme
                        members or groups, and as this is the case wouldn't you tend to
                        believe that they support them? I also have many friends in the law
                        enforcement community who tell me alot of information that I
                        wouldn't ordinarily become privy to. As the FBI, DEA, NIS etc. all
                        have a hugh stake in Homeland security now in this post-911 era, I
                        have learned some really frieghtening things that have come out of
                        these supposed "harmless" people.
                        >
                        > <<They use animals to gain sympothy from people who truely have
                        their hearts in the right place, but are naive and ultimately taken
                        in by this sham.>>
                        >
                        > I don't believe that ingrid newkirk has any ulterior motives,
                        other than wanting pets to be gone and live in a vegan world, but
                        we all know that anyways. You sound really paranoid. I imagine
                        you hiding in a dark room with tinfoil on your head and dark circles
                        under your eyes from lack of sleep.:D Which groups do you mean?
                        PETA? ALF?

                        ----------------------- Outworldly she might not, I'm afraid that I
                        don't know enough about Miss Newkirk to extend an opinion.
                        Tinfoil? How Dare you! It's Aluminum Foil or
                        nothing! ;)
                        I was speaking primarily of ALF as they are more openly
                        violent and have acted out some pretty nasty little stunts. however
                        members of PETA have also been involved in violent or distructive
                        acts.

                        >
                        > <<Last year Americans spent over $11 billion on their pets and pet
                        > supplies>>
                        >
                        > Americans love their pets, what can I say? 11 billion probably
                        isn't that much when compared with other things- what about shoes,
                        > clothing, cars, tvs. I love to spend $$ on my pets too.

                        --------------------During the same period they spent only 4.2
                        billion on childrens expenses, that includes food, clothing, toys
                        and medical expences. I love pets too, even had a terrific Burmese
                        Python at one time, but I would be remiss if I paid more attention
                        to it than my son.
                        >
                        > <<People in this group have openly supported ALF>>
                        >
                        > Do you mean PETA?.....oh, you mean this group don't you? Well
                        that doesn't surprise me, there may be ALF members on this list,
                        you never know. And, like I said, they are so absorbed in the
                        belief that animals are pure, innocent little darling balls of
                        fluff that they'd do anything do help them, and support anything
                        that was done. I prefer to respect animals, not demean them by
                        thinking they're innocent little things that couldn't do a thing to
                        help themselves. We're the ones living in heated houses and soft
                        warm beds and pillows, feel sorry for us! We're pitiful!

                        ------------------------I like the way you think, it certainly makes
                        more sense than the completely biased and extreme nonsense that
                        comes from some of the members of this group. I see you are
                        learning that as well as you've already had a share of negitive
                        posts from Colleen. But I believe you have a much better way of
                        looking at the issue and presenting it than the others. It seems
                        like all they can say is: "Humans are all evil and stupid and only
                        deserve to die so that we can make more room for the scared
                        animals". Now that's a great way to get convince people of your
                        viewpoint.
                        Now I still don't think animals deserve any rights per se, but
                        at least I feel I can have an intelligent discusion with you in
                        order to see the other side of the issue. Again it is a pleasure to
                        be able to talk to you about it.

                        Enterprise

                        AKA: The Blue Max
                        >
                        > Serena
                      • fairydoll_17
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 3, 2002
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                          <<I also have many friends in the law enforcement community who tell
                          me alot of information that I wouldn't ordinarily become privy to.>>

                          So I guess you do know alot that I dont, so I will keep and open mind
                          to your comments..... and Chcoa, I believe, agreed with you so there
                          must be more to this

                          <<During the same period they spent only 4.2 billion on childrens
                          expenses, that includes food, clothing, toys and medical expences.>>

                          Maybe there are more people with pets than kids?

                          <<I love pets too, even had a terrific Burmese Python at one time,
                          but I would be remiss if I paid more attention to it than my son.>>

                          Agreed

                          <<But I believe you have a much better way of looking at the issue
                          and presenting it than the others. It seems like all they can say
                          is: "Humans are all evil and stupid and only deserve to die so that
                          we can make more room for the scared animals". Now that's a great
                          way to get convince people of your viewpoint.>>

                          Believe me, I was there. Luckily, not for long. I think too much to
                          be leaded blindly like that. I was an AR, not too drastic, not vegan,
                          not for long. Few months maybe.

                          <<Now I still don't think animals deserve any rights per se, but
                          >at least I feel I can have an intelligent discusion with you in
                          >order to see the other side of the issue.>>

                          I don't know whether animals should have rights either. I'm
                          definately not going to say they shouldn't though. I just think that
                          humans should know enough not to treat them so violently, like when
                          people light dogs on fire and stuff. These humans obviously need
                          help, they obviously have some problems in their lives. Animal
                          people should focus on making things better for people. Stronger
                          laws don't do too much.

                          > >
                          > > Serena
                        • Ray Wozniak
                          ... that ... when ... the law make to someone who is so sick so as to abuse innocent creatures. The Poeple who do these awful things are usually so far gone
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 3, 2002
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                            --- In discussanimalrights@y..., "fairydoll_17" <fairydoll_17@y...>

                            > I don't know whether animals should have rights either. I'm
                            > definately not going to say they shouldn't though. I just think
                            that
                            > humans should know enough not to treat them so violently, like
                            when
                            > people light dogs on fire and stuff. These humans obviously need
                            > help, they obviously have some problems in their lives. Animal
                            > people should focus on making things better for people. Stronger
                            > laws don't do too much.


                            ---------------------------A very good point, what difference does
                            the law make to someone who is so sick so as to abuse innocent
                            creatures. The Poeple who do these awful things are usually so far
                            gone that they could care less anyway.

                            Enterprise
                          • chcoa
                            I didn t say anything negative about the homeless and yet you can just imagine how you (I) talk about homeless people . That sounds pretty judgemental to me.
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 5, 2002
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                              I didn't say anything negative about the homeless and yet you "can
                              just imagine how you (I) talk about homeless people". That sounds
                              pretty judgemental to me. This could go on and on. Let's skip the
                              who's judging who retoric and get right to the point. We don't know
                              what that homeless man's situation was at the time he killed the
                              pigeon. That's the point, perhaps he wasn't able to make it to a
                              soup kitchen, or there wasn't one near by, or he was too hopped up on
                              something to think straight, or he had been turned away at the
                              kitchen, or he was too weak to walk there, or ....... The or's are
                              infinte. Would you rather he died than kill the skyrat?


                              --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I'm not judging anybody, you are. Don't cover up the issue here
                              about the soup kitchen. I can just imagine how you talk about
                              homeless people. I help them out.
                              > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                              >
                              > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:Colleen, I'm sure this starving man
                              would call it survival not
                              > cruelty. And have you ever been to a soup kitchen? They sometimes
                              > serve meat there as well. Wouldn't that basically be the same
                              thing
                              > just without him personaly killing? Finally, you really shouldn't
                              > judge this man since you don't what his situation was.
                              >
                              > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                              wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hmmmmm, it's called animal cruelty. They do have soup kitchens
                              for
                              > the homeless, DUH!!
                              > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                              Service.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts,
                              and warmth to our souls."
                              >
                              > Colleen Klaum
                              >
                              > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with
                              men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                              Immanuel Kant
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ---------------------------------
                              > Do you Yahoo!?
                              > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Colleen Klaum
                              One thing I ask of you, stop calling them skyrats. Maybe this man should be institutionalized, after all, he wasn t thinking straight. Colleen-Catwoman chcoa
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 5, 2002
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                                One thing I ask of you, stop calling them skyrats. Maybe this man should be institutionalized, after all, he wasn't thinking straight.
                                Colleen-Catwoman

                                chcoa <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:I didn't say anything negative about the homeless and yet you "can
                                just imagine how you (I) talk about homeless people". That sounds
                                pretty judgemental to me. This could go on and on. Let's skip the
                                who's judging who retoric and get right to the point. We don't know
                                what that homeless man's situation was at the time he killed the
                                pigeon. That's the point, perhaps he wasn't able to make it to a
                                soup kitchen, or there wasn't one near by, or he was too hopped up on
                                something to think straight, or he had been turned away at the
                                kitchen, or he was too weak to walk there, or ....... The or's are
                                infinte. Would you rather he died than kill the skyrat?


                                --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I'm not judging anybody, you are. Don't cover up the issue here
                                about the soup kitchen. I can just imagine how you talk about
                                homeless people. I help them out.
                                > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                >
                                > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:Colleen, I'm sure this starving man
                                would call it survival not
                                > cruelty. And have you ever been to a soup kitchen? They sometimes
                                > serve meat there as well. Wouldn't that basically be the same
                                thing
                                > just without him personaly killing? Finally, you really shouldn't
                                > judge this man since you don't what his situation was.
                                >
                                > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hmmmmm, it's called animal cruelty. They do have soup kitchens
                                for
                                > the homeless, DUH!!
                                > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                Service.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts,
                                and warmth to our souls."
                                >
                                > Colleen Klaum
                                >
                                > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with
                                men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                Immanuel Kant
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                                "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts, and warmth to our souls."

                                Colleen Klaum

                                "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." Immanuel Kant











                                ---------------------------------
                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • chcoa
                                Oh my gosh, the only thing you took from our whole discussion on this topic is offence at me calling the bird a name and that he should be institutionalized???
                                Message 15 of 23 , Nov 5, 2002
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Oh my gosh, the only thing you took from our whole discussion on this
                                  topic is offence at me calling the bird a name and that he should be
                                  institutionalized??? WOW!!! I said MAYBE he wasn't thinking
                                  straight as ONE of many possibilities for his choosing to eat the
                                  dirtybird. I should have known you would choose that route of
                                  explanation for his behavior. The one that is most illogical. Also,
                                  would you like to see him institutionalized so more of your hard
                                  earned money can be taken from your pockets? As a tax payer, you pay
                                  for this person to be put in a bug farm and evalutated. All for
                                  feeding himself when he was hungry, yes that is crazy!

                                  --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > One thing I ask of you, stop calling them skyrats. Maybe this man
                                  should be institutionalized, after all, he wasn't thinking straight.
                                  > Colleen-Catwoman
                                  >
                                  > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:I didn't say anything negative about
                                  the homeless and yet you "can
                                  > just imagine how you (I) talk about homeless people". That sounds
                                  > pretty judgemental to me. This could go on and on. Let's skip the
                                  > who's judging who retoric and get right to the point. We don't
                                  know
                                  > what that homeless man's situation was at the time he killed the
                                  > pigeon. That's the point, perhaps he wasn't able to make it to a
                                  > soup kitchen, or there wasn't one near by, or he was too hopped up
                                  on
                                  > something to think straight, or he had been turned away at the
                                  > kitchen, or he was too weak to walk there, or ....... The or's are
                                  > infinte. Would you rather he died than kill the skyrat?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I'm not judging anybody, you are. Don't cover up the issue here
                                  > about the soup kitchen. I can just imagine how you talk about
                                  > homeless people. I help them out.
                                  > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                  > >
                                  > > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:Colleen, I'm sure this starving man
                                  > would call it survival not
                                  > > cruelty. And have you ever been to a soup kitchen? They
                                  sometimes
                                  > > serve meat there as well. Wouldn't that basically be the same
                                  > thing
                                  > > just without him personaly killing? Finally, you really
                                  shouldn't
                                  > > judge this man since you don't what his situation was.
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hmmmmm, it's called animal cruelty. They do have soup kitchens
                                  > for
                                  > > the homeless, DUH!!
                                  > > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                  > Service.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our
                                  hearts,
                                  > and warmth to our souls."
                                  > >
                                  > > Colleen Klaum
                                  > >
                                  > > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings
                                  with
                                  > men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                  > Immanuel Kant
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ---------------------------------
                                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                  Service.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts,
                                  and warmth to our souls."
                                  >
                                  > Colleen Klaum
                                  >
                                  > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with
                                  men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                  Immanuel Kant
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Colleen Klaum
                                  You need to use better words in your posts. Colleen-Catwoman chcoa wrote:Oh my gosh, the only thing you took from our whole
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Nov 5, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    You need to use better words in your posts.
                                    Colleen-Catwoman

                                    chcoa <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Oh my gosh, the only thing you took from our whole discussion on this
                                    topic is offence at me calling the bird a name and that he should be
                                    institutionalized??? WOW!!! I said MAYBE he wasn't thinking
                                    straight as ONE of many possibilities for his choosing to eat the
                                    dirtybird. I should have known you would choose that route of
                                    explanation for his behavior. The one that is most illogical. Also,
                                    would you like to see him institutionalized so more of your hard
                                    earned money can be taken from your pockets? As a tax payer, you pay
                                    for this person to be put in a bug farm and evalutated. All for
                                    feeding himself when he was hungry, yes that is crazy!

                                    --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > One thing I ask of you, stop calling them skyrats. Maybe this man
                                    should be institutionalized, after all, he wasn't thinking straight.
                                    > Colleen-Catwoman
                                    >
                                    > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:I didn't say anything negative about
                                    the homeless and yet you "can
                                    > just imagine how you (I) talk about homeless people". That sounds
                                    > pretty judgemental to me. This could go on and on. Let's skip the
                                    > who's judging who retoric and get right to the point. We don't
                                    know
                                    > what that homeless man's situation was at the time he killed the
                                    > pigeon. That's the point, perhaps he wasn't able to make it to a
                                    > soup kitchen, or there wasn't one near by, or he was too hopped up
                                    on
                                    > something to think straight, or he had been turned away at the
                                    > kitchen, or he was too weak to walk there, or ....... The or's are
                                    > infinte. Would you rather he died than kill the skyrat?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I'm not judging anybody, you are. Don't cover up the issue here
                                    > about the soup kitchen. I can just imagine how you talk about
                                    > homeless people. I help them out.
                                    > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                    > >
                                    > > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:Colleen, I'm sure this starving man
                                    > would call it survival not
                                    > > cruelty. And have you ever been to a soup kitchen? They
                                    sometimes
                                    > > serve meat there as well. Wouldn't that basically be the same
                                    > thing
                                    > > just without him personaly killing? Finally, you really
                                    shouldn't
                                    > > judge this man since you don't what his situation was.
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hmmmmm, it's called animal cruelty. They do have soup kitchens
                                    > for
                                    > > the homeless, DUH!!
                                    > > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                    > Service.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our
                                    hearts,
                                    > and warmth to our souls."
                                    > >
                                    > > Colleen Klaum
                                    > >
                                    > > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings
                                    with
                                    > men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                    > Immanuel Kant
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ---------------------------------
                                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                    > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                    Service.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts,
                                    and warmth to our souls."
                                    >
                                    > Colleen Klaum
                                    >
                                    > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with
                                    men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                    Immanuel Kant
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ---------------------------------
                                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                                    > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                                    "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts, and warmth to our souls."

                                    Colleen Klaum

                                    "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." Immanuel Kant











                                    ---------------------------------
                                    Do you Yahoo!?
                                    HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • fairydoll_17
                                    Colleen- You have been avoiding question after question after question. You haven t brought up a single argument to back up your beliefs yet. And I was
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Nov 5, 2002
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Colleen-

                                      You have been avoiding question after question after question. You
                                      haven't brought up a single argument to back up your beliefs yet.
                                      And I was looking forward to hearing your answer to the latest
                                      question- Would you rather starve to death than eat a pigeon? Or eat
                                      city dirt and grass covered in gum, spit, cigarette butts and god
                                      knows what else?

                                      Serena

                                      --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > You need to use better words in your posts.
                                      > Colleen-Catwoman
                                      >
                                      > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:Oh my gosh, the only thing you took
                                      from our whole discussion on this
                                      > topic is offence at me calling the bird a name and that he should
                                      be
                                      > institutionalized??? WOW!!! I said MAYBE he wasn't thinking
                                      > straight as ONE of many possibilities for his choosing to eat the
                                      > dirtybird. I should have known you would choose that route of
                                      > explanation for his behavior. The one that is most illogical.
                                      Also,
                                      > would you like to see him institutionalized so more of your hard
                                      > earned money can be taken from your pockets? As a tax payer, you
                                      pay
                                      > for this person to be put in a bug farm and evalutated. All for
                                      > feeding himself when he was hungry, yes that is crazy!
                                      >
                                      > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > One thing I ask of you, stop calling them skyrats. Maybe this man
                                      > should be institutionalized, after all, he wasn't thinking straight.
                                      > > Colleen-Catwoman
                                      > >
                                      > > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:I didn't say anything negative about
                                      > the homeless and yet you "can
                                      > > just imagine how you (I) talk about homeless people". That
                                      sounds
                                      > > pretty judgemental to me. This could go on and on. Let's skip
                                      the
                                      > > who's judging who retoric and get right to the point. We don't
                                      > know
                                      > > what that homeless man's situation was at the time he killed the
                                      > > pigeon. That's the point, perhaps he wasn't able to make it to a
                                      > > soup kitchen, or there wasn't one near by, or he was too hopped
                                      up
                                      > on
                                      > > something to think straight, or he had been turned away at the
                                      > > kitchen, or he was too weak to walk there, or ....... The or's
                                      are
                                      > > infinte. Would you rather he died than kill the skyrat?
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I'm not judging anybody, you are. Don't cover up the issue here
                                      > > about the soup kitchen. I can just imagine how you talk about
                                      > > homeless people. I help them out.
                                      > > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:Colleen, I'm sure this starving
                                      man
                                      > > would call it survival not
                                      > > > cruelty. And have you ever been to a soup kitchen? They
                                      > sometimes
                                      > > > serve meat there as well. Wouldn't that basically be the same
                                      > > thing
                                      > > > just without him personaly killing? Finally, you really
                                      > shouldn't
                                      > > > judge this man since you don't what his situation was.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Hmmmmm, it's called animal cruelty. They do have soup
                                      kitchens
                                      > > for
                                      > > > the homeless, DUH!!
                                      > > > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > > > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                      > > Service.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our
                                      > hearts,
                                      > > and warmth to our souls."
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Colleen Klaum
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings
                                      > with
                                      > > men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of
                                      animals."
                                      > > Immanuel Kant
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ---------------------------------
                                      > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                      > > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                      > Service.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our
                                      hearts,
                                      > and warmth to our souls."
                                      > >
                                      > > Colleen Klaum
                                      > >
                                      > > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings
                                      with
                                      > men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                      > Immanuel Kant
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ---------------------------------
                                      > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                      > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                      Service.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts,
                                      and warmth to our souls."
                                      >
                                      > Colleen Klaum
                                      >
                                      > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with
                                      men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                      Immanuel Kant
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ---------------------------------
                                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                                      > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Colleen Klaum
                                      The starve to death question wasn t aimed at me, but I will answer it. I would rather starve to death. Colleen-Catwoman fairydoll_17
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Nov 5, 2002
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        The starve to death question wasn't aimed at me, but I will answer it. I would rather starve to death.
                                        Colleen-Catwoman

                                        fairydoll_17 <fairydoll_17@...> wrote:Colleen-

                                        You have been avoiding question after question after question. You
                                        haven't brought up a single argument to back up your beliefs yet.
                                        And I was looking forward to hearing your answer to the latest
                                        question- Would you rather starve to death than eat a pigeon? Or eat
                                        city dirt and grass covered in gum, spit, cigarette butts and god
                                        knows what else?

                                        Serena

                                        --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > You need to use better words in your posts.
                                        > Colleen-Catwoman
                                        >
                                        > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:Oh my gosh, the only thing you took
                                        from our whole discussion on this
                                        > topic is offence at me calling the bird a name and that he should
                                        be
                                        > institutionalized??? WOW!!! I said MAYBE he wasn't thinking
                                        > straight as ONE of many possibilities for his choosing to eat the
                                        > dirtybird. I should have known you would choose that route of
                                        > explanation for his behavior. The one that is most illogical.
                                        Also,
                                        > would you like to see him institutionalized so more of your hard
                                        > earned money can be taken from your pockets? As a tax payer, you
                                        pay
                                        > for this person to be put in a bug farm and evalutated. All for
                                        > feeding himself when he was hungry, yes that is crazy!
                                        >
                                        > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > One thing I ask of you, stop calling them skyrats. Maybe this man
                                        > should be institutionalized, after all, he wasn't thinking straight.
                                        > > Colleen-Catwoman
                                        > >
                                        > > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:I didn't say anything negative about
                                        > the homeless and yet you "can
                                        > > just imagine how you (I) talk about homeless people". That
                                        sounds
                                        > > pretty judgemental to me. This could go on and on. Let's skip
                                        the
                                        > > who's judging who retoric and get right to the point. We don't
                                        > know
                                        > > what that homeless man's situation was at the time he killed the
                                        > > pigeon. That's the point, perhaps he wasn't able to make it to a
                                        > > soup kitchen, or there wasn't one near by, or he was too hopped
                                        up
                                        > on
                                        > > something to think straight, or he had been turned away at the
                                        > > kitchen, or he was too weak to walk there, or ....... The or's
                                        are
                                        > > infinte. Would you rather he died than kill the skyrat?
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I'm not judging anybody, you are. Don't cover up the issue here
                                        > > about the soup kitchen. I can just imagine how you talk about
                                        > > homeless people. I help them out.
                                        > > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                        > > >
                                        > > > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:Colleen, I'm sure this starving
                                        man
                                        > > would call it survival not
                                        > > > cruelty. And have you ever been to a soup kitchen? They
                                        > sometimes
                                        > > > serve meat there as well. Wouldn't that basically be the same
                                        > > thing
                                        > > > just without him personaly killing? Finally, you really
                                        > shouldn't
                                        > > > judge this man since you don't what his situation was.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Hmmmmm, it's called animal cruelty. They do have soup
                                        kitchens
                                        > > for
                                        > > > the homeless, DUH!!
                                        > > > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > > > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                        > > Service.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our
                                        > hearts,
                                        > > and warmth to our souls."
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Colleen Klaum
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings
                                        > with
                                        > > men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of
                                        animals."
                                        > > Immanuel Kant
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ---------------------------------
                                        > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                        > > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                        > > >
                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                        > Service.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our
                                        hearts,
                                        > and warmth to our souls."
                                        > >
                                        > > Colleen Klaum
                                        > >
                                        > > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings
                                        with
                                        > men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                        > Immanuel Kant
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ---------------------------------
                                        > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                        > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                        > >
                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                        Service.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts,
                                        and warmth to our souls."
                                        >
                                        > Colleen Klaum
                                        >
                                        > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with
                                        men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                        Immanuel Kant
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ---------------------------------
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                                        "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts, and warmth to our souls."

                                        Colleen Klaum

                                        "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." Immanuel Kant











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                                      • remi7db
                                        Serena, Although the question of starving to deathe vs. eating an animal wasn t addressed to me, I will answer by saying I hope I will never have to find out.
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Nov 6, 2002
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                                          Serena,
                                          Although the question of starving to deathe vs. eating an animal
                                          wasn't addressed to me, I will answer by saying I hope I will never
                                          have to find out. I don't eat meat, but if I were to starve to
                                          death...I don't know. I think I'd consider stealing food before
                                          killing anything though...
                                          Remi
                                        • fairydoll_17
                                          So you value the life of a pigeon over your own? Shouldn t you come first? If you wouldn t eat it because the thought disgusts you that s different, but not
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Nov 6, 2002
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                                            So you value the life of a pigeon over your own? Shouldn't you come
                                            first? If you wouldn't eat it because the thought disgusts you
                                            that's different, but not if it's because you think it's cruel. But
                                            anyway, it's your belief system not mine, I just wanted to know your
                                            answer.

                                            Serena
                                            --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > The starve to death question wasn't aimed at me, but I will answer
                                            it. I would rather starve to death.
                                            > Colleen-Catwoman
                                            >
                                            > fairydoll_17 <fairydoll_17@y...> wrote:Colleen-
                                            >
                                            > You have been avoiding question after question after question. You
                                            > haven't brought up a single argument to back up your beliefs yet.
                                            > And I was looking forward to hearing your answer to the latest
                                            > question- Would you rather starve to death than eat a pigeon? Or
                                            eat
                                            > city dirt and grass covered in gum, spit, cigarette butts and god
                                            > knows what else?
                                            >
                                            > Serena
                                            >
                                            > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > You need to use better words in your posts.
                                            > > Colleen-Catwoman
                                            > >
                                            > > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:Oh my gosh, the only thing you took
                                            > from our whole discussion on this
                                            > > topic is offence at me calling the bird a name and that he should
                                            > be
                                            > > institutionalized??? WOW!!! I said MAYBE he wasn't thinking
                                            > > straight as ONE of many possibilities for his choosing to eat the
                                            > > dirtybird. I should have known you would choose that route of
                                            > > explanation for his behavior. The one that is most illogical.
                                            > Also,
                                            > > would you like to see him institutionalized so more of your hard
                                            > > earned money can be taken from your pockets? As a tax payer, you
                                            > pay
                                            > > for this person to be put in a bug farm and evalutated. All for
                                            > > feeding himself when he was hungry, yes that is crazy!
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > One thing I ask of you, stop calling them skyrats. Maybe this
                                            man
                                            > > should be institutionalized, after all, he wasn't thinking
                                            straight.
                                            > > > Colleen-Catwoman
                                            > > >
                                            > > > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:I didn't say anything negative
                                            about
                                            > > the homeless and yet you "can
                                            > > > just imagine how you (I) talk about homeless people". That
                                            > sounds
                                            > > > pretty judgemental to me. This could go on and on. Let's skip
                                            > the
                                            > > > who's judging who retoric and get right to the point. We don't
                                            > > know
                                            > > > what that homeless man's situation was at the time he killed
                                            the
                                            > > > pigeon. That's the point, perhaps he wasn't able to make it to
                                            a
                                            > > > soup kitchen, or there wasn't one near by, or he was too hopped
                                            > up
                                            > > on
                                            > > > something to think straight, or he had been turned away at the
                                            > > > kitchen, or he was too weak to walk there, or ....... The or's
                                            > are
                                            > > > infinte. Would you rather he died than kill the skyrat?
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                            > > wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > I'm not judging anybody, you are. Don't cover up the issue
                                            here
                                            > > > about the soup kitchen. I can just imagine how you talk about
                                            > > > homeless people. I help them out.
                                            > > > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:Colleen, I'm sure this starving
                                            > man
                                            > > > would call it survival not
                                            > > > > cruelty. And have you ever been to a soup kitchen? They
                                            > > sometimes
                                            > > > > serve meat there as well. Wouldn't that basically be the
                                            same
                                            > > > thing
                                            > > > > just without him personaly killing? Finally, you really
                                            > > shouldn't
                                            > > > > judge this man since you don't what his situation was.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum
                                            <wildfawn1@y...>
                                            > > > wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Hmmmmm, it's called animal cruelty. They do have soup
                                            > kitchens
                                            > > > for
                                            > > > > the homeless, DUH!!
                                            > > > > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > > > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                            > > > Service.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our
                                            > > hearts,
                                            > > > and warmth to our souls."
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Colleen Klaum
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings
                                            > > with
                                            > > > men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of
                                            > animals."
                                            > > > Immanuel Kant
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > ---------------------------------
                                            > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                            > > > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                            > > Service.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our
                                            > hearts,
                                            > > and warmth to our souls."
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Colleen Klaum
                                            > > >
                                            > > > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings
                                            > with
                                            > > men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of
                                            animals."
                                            > > Immanuel Kant
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > ---------------------------------
                                            > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                            > > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                            > > >
                                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                            > Service.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our
                                            hearts,
                                            > and warmth to our souls."
                                            > >
                                            > > Colleen Klaum
                                            > >
                                            > > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings
                                            with
                                            > men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                            > Immanuel Kant
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ---------------------------------
                                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                            > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                            > >
                                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                            Service.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts,
                                            and warmth to our souls."
                                            >
                                            > Colleen Klaum
                                            >
                                            > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with
                                            men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                            Immanuel Kant
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ---------------------------------
                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                                            > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • fairydoll_17
                                            I m sure the homeless guy would have stole first too. I wouldn t want to kill and eat a pigeon with my bare hands, or eat it prekilled for that matter. I
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Nov 6, 2002
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                                              I'm sure the homeless guy would have stole first too. I wouldn't
                                              want to kill and eat a pigeon with my bare hands, or eat it prekilled
                                              for that matter. I hardly ever eat meat, just fish occasionally.
                                              That's because I hate the factory farms, not because I think it's
                                              wrong to kill an animal for food.

                                              Serena

                                              --- In discussanimalrights@y..., remi7db <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                              > Serena,
                                              > Although the question of starving to deathe vs. eating an animal
                                              > wasn't addressed to me, I will answer by saying I hope I will never
                                              > have to find out. I don't eat meat, but if I were to starve to
                                              > death...I don't know. I think I'd consider stealing food before
                                              > killing anything though...
                                              > Remi
                                            • chcoa
                                              I refuse to be politically correct. I have to calls um likes I sees um. ... from our whole discussion on this ... be ... Also, ... pay ... sounds ... the ...
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Nov 7, 2002
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                                                I refuse to be politically correct. I have to calls um likes I sees
                                                um.

                                                --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > You need to use better words in your posts.
                                                > Colleen-Catwoman
                                                >
                                                > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:Oh my gosh, the only thing you took
                                                from our whole discussion on this
                                                > topic is offence at me calling the bird a name and that he should
                                                be
                                                > institutionalized??? WOW!!! I said MAYBE he wasn't thinking
                                                > straight as ONE of many possibilities for his choosing to eat the
                                                > dirtybird. I should have known you would choose that route of
                                                > explanation for his behavior. The one that is most illogical.
                                                Also,
                                                > would you like to see him institutionalized so more of your hard
                                                > earned money can be taken from your pockets? As a tax payer, you
                                                pay
                                                > for this person to be put in a bug farm and evalutated. All for
                                                > feeding himself when he was hungry, yes that is crazy!
                                                >
                                                > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                                wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > One thing I ask of you, stop calling them skyrats. Maybe this man
                                                > should be institutionalized, after all, he wasn't thinking straight.
                                                > > Colleen-Catwoman
                                                > >
                                                > > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:I didn't say anything negative about
                                                > the homeless and yet you "can
                                                > > just imagine how you (I) talk about homeless people". That
                                                sounds
                                                > > pretty judgemental to me. This could go on and on. Let's skip
                                                the
                                                > > who's judging who retoric and get right to the point. We don't
                                                > know
                                                > > what that homeless man's situation was at the time he killed the
                                                > > pigeon. That's the point, perhaps he wasn't able to make it to a
                                                > > soup kitchen, or there wasn't one near by, or he was too hopped
                                                up
                                                > on
                                                > > something to think straight, or he had been turned away at the
                                                > > kitchen, or he was too weak to walk there, or ....... The or's
                                                are
                                                > > infinte. Would you rather he died than kill the skyrat?
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                                > wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I'm not judging anybody, you are. Don't cover up the issue here
                                                > > about the soup kitchen. I can just imagine how you talk about
                                                > > homeless people. I help them out.
                                                > > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                                > > >
                                                > > > chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:Colleen, I'm sure this starving
                                                man
                                                > > would call it survival not
                                                > > > cruelty. And have you ever been to a soup kitchen? They
                                                > sometimes
                                                > > > serve meat there as well. Wouldn't that basically be the same
                                                > > thing
                                                > > > just without him personaly killing? Finally, you really
                                                > shouldn't
                                                > > > judge this man since you don't what his situation was.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In discussanimalrights@y..., Colleen Klaum <wildfawn1@y...>
                                                > > wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Hmmmmm, it's called animal cruelty. They do have soup
                                                kitchens
                                                > > for
                                                > > > the homeless, DUH!!
                                                > > > > *Colleen* (Catwoman)
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                > > > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                > > Service.
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our
                                                > hearts,
                                                > > and warmth to our souls."
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Colleen Klaum
                                                > > >
                                                > > > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings
                                                > with
                                                > > men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of
                                                animals."
                                                > > Immanuel Kant
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > ---------------------------------
                                                > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                > > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                                > > >
                                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                > > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                > Service.
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our
                                                hearts,
                                                > and warmth to our souls."
                                                > >
                                                > > Colleen Klaum
                                                > >
                                                > > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings
                                                with
                                                > men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                                > Immanuel Kant
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > ---------------------------------
                                                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                                > >
                                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                > discussanimalrights-unsubscribe@y...
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                Service.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > "Live in peace with the animals. Animals bring love to our hearts,
                                                and warmth to our souls."
                                                >
                                                > Colleen Klaum
                                                >
                                                > "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with
                                                men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
                                                Immanuel Kant
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Ray Wozniak
                                                ... sees ... down to Earth attitude is lost on most in this forum. Enterprise
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Nov 8, 2002
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                                                  --- In discussanimalrights@y..., chcoa <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                                  > I refuse to be politically correct. I have to calls um likes I
                                                  sees
                                                  > um.
                                                  >

                                                  -------------------Good For You Chcoa! I'm just afraid that such a
                                                  down to Earth attitude is lost on most in this forum.

                                                  Enterprise
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