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Re: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide

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  • lm murray
    The Nazis of WWII trouble me no more or less than those of a supposedly civilized Cdn govt today that is actively creating a huge underclass by allowing U.S.
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 15, 2009
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      The Nazis of WWII trouble me no more or less than those of a supposedly civilized Cdn govt today that is actively creating a huge underclass by allowing U.S. insurance companies to erode what is still an essentially excellent national health scheme. Each time we lose a plank in the national health program, U.S. insurance firms are there, angling various leaders, esp union leaders, to take out private insurance to shore up the gaps. Workers whose employers can afford it pass go; those on restricted incomes - typically people with disabilities - do not. Legions of people on disability pensions in B.C. are literally starving to death half of every month because of a decision by the provincial govt to create only high-end condo boxes - no affordable housing at all - very little rental stock here anymore, in fact.  

      --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@...> wrote:

      From: Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@...>
      Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
      To: disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 6:30 PM

      Hi Louise,

      THE MEN BEHIND HITLER - A German warning to the world
      by Bernhard Schreiber

      Link

      <http://www.toolan. com/hitler/ index.html>

      --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Keith,
      >  
      > I'm afraid I disagree. Bad housing is INDEED a reason to want to stop living when there is little or no hope for any improvement! The reality is that many people are forced by poverty to live terrible lives in some kind of hellish pain. In many cases, the possibility of any kind of release is just too remote. The pretense that all life is sacred is just that: a pretense. The fact that we allow so many to languish in unrelieved suffering while the boys fly off into space, for example, suggests pretty strongly that some life is more sacred than others. If resources are not directed at the radical causes of suffering, that suffering is unrelieved. In those circumstances, some of us will inevitably conclude that once we've tried everything we can think of to help ourselves and nothing changes, the only decision left is how to end it with the least amt of discomfort. I, for one, would like help from an expert if I get there.
      >  
      > I think it's ludicrous to draw parallels between acts of genocide perpetrated in wartime and the private decision by a competent adult to seek medical assistance to end what appears to be a hopeless situation. Forcing people to 'stay in the fray' against their will because we cannot access effective means to end our suffering denies us a fundamental right to choose. I don't understand how you can make the leap from a private decision by an individual to Nazi euthenasia of people with disabilities. .. Are you suggesting Nazis simply expanded what began as an initiative to assist suffering individuals who expressed the desire to die? From my reading, that's quite a stretch!
      >  
      > Louise



    • Keith Armstrong
      In this situation I am glad I live in the UK and the National Health Service. While there are many improvements needed in the NHS at least no one in the UK
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 18, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        In this situation I am glad I live in the UK and the National Health Service. While there are many improvements needed in the NHS at least no one in the UK has to worry about payment of general health care. Access to good health care should be a right that everyone should have.

        Keith


        --- In disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com, lm murray <lmm789@...> wrote:
        >
        > The Nazis of WWII trouble me no more or less than those of a supposedly civilized Cdn govt today that is actively creating a huge underclass by allowing U.S. insurance companies to erode what is still an essentially excellent national health scheme. Each time we lose a plank in the national health program, U.S. insurance firms are there, angling various leaders, esp union leaders, to take out private insurance to shore up the gaps. Workers whose employers can afford it pass go; those on restricted incomes - typically people with disabilities - do not. Legions of people on disability pensions in B.C. are literally starving to death half of every month because of a decision by the provincial govt to create only high-end condo boxes - no affordable housing at all - very little rental stock here anymore, in fact.  
        >
        > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@...>
        > Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
        > To: disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 6:30 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi Louise,
        >
        > THE MEN BEHIND HITLER - A German warning to the world
        > by Bernhard Schreiber
        >
        > Link
        >
        > <http://www.toolan com/hitler/ index.html>
        >
        > --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Keith,
        > >  
        > > I'm afraid I disagree. Bad housing is INDEED a reason to want to stop living when there is little or no hope for any improvement! The reality is that many people are forced by poverty to live terrible lives in some kind of hellish pain. In many cases, the possibility of any kind of release is just too remote. The pretense that all life is sacred is just that: a pretense. The fact that we allow so many to languish in unrelieved suffering while the boys fly off into space, for example, suggests pretty strongly that some life is more sacred than others. If resources are not directed at the radical causes of suffering, that suffering is unrelieved. In those circumstances, some of us will inevitably conclude that once we've tried everything we can think of to help ourselves and nothing changes, the only decision left is how to end it with the least amt of discomfort. I, for one, would like help from an expert if I get there.
        > >  
        > > I think it's ludicrous to draw parallels between acts of genocide perpetrated in wartime and the private decision by a competent adult to seek medical assistance to end what appears to be a hopeless situation. Forcing people to 'stay in the fray' against their will because we cannot access effective means to end our suffering denies us a fundamental right to choose. I don't understand how you can make the leap from a private decision by an individual to Nazi euthenasia of people with disabilities. .. Are you suggesting Nazis simply expanded what began as an initiative to assist suffering individuals who expressed the desire to die? From my reading, that's quite a stretch!
        > >  
        > > Louise
        >
      • Mitchell, Marshall
        As you know we in the US are in the middle of a fight to get soemthing like you have had for 40 years. How is NHS for people with disabilities? Marshall
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 23, 2009
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          As you know we in the US are in the middle of a fight to get soemthing like you have had for 40 years. How is NHS for people with disabilities?
           
          Marshall


          From: disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Keith Armstrong
          Sent: Sat 7/18/2009 4:28 PM
          To: disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide

           

          In this situation I am glad I live in the UK and the National Health Service. While there are many improvements needed in the NHS at least no one in the UK has to worry about payment of general health care. Access to good health care should be a right that everyone should have.

          Keith

          --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@...> wrote:
          >
          > The Nazis of WWII trouble me no more or less than those of a supposedly civilized Cdn govt today that is actively creating a huge underclass by allowing U.S. insurance companies to erode what is still an essentially excellent national health scheme. Each time we lose a plank in the national health program, U.S. insurance firms are there, angling various leaders, esp union leaders, to take out private insurance to shore up the gaps. Workers whose employers can afford it pass go; those on restricted incomes - typically people with disabilities - do not. Legions of people on disability pensions in B.C. are literally starving to death half of every month because of a decision by the provincial govt to create only high-end condo boxes - no affordable housing at all - very little rental stock here anymore, in fact.  
          >
          > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...>
          > Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
          > To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
          > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 6:30 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi Louise,
          >
          > THE MEN BEHIND HITLER - A German warning to the world
          > by Bernhard Schreiber
          >
          > Link
          >
          > <http://www.toolan. com/hitler/ index.html>
          >
          > --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Keith,
          > >  
          > > I'm afraid I disagree. Bad housing is INDEED a reason to want to stop living when there is little or no hope for any improvement! The reality is that many people are forced by poverty to live terrible lives in some kind of hellish pain. In many cases, the possibility of any kind of release is just too remote. The pretense that all life is sacred is just that: a pretense. The fact that we allow so many to languish in unrelieved suffering while the boys fly off into space, for example, suggests pretty strongly that some life is more sacred than others. If resources are not directed at the radical causes of suffering, that suffering is unrelieved. In those circumstances, some of us will inevitably conclude that once we've tried everything we can think of to help ourselves and nothing changes, the only decision left is how to end it with the least amt of discomfort. I, for one, would like help from an expert if I get there.
          > >  
          > > I think it's ludicrous to draw parallels between acts of genocide perpetrated in wartime and the private decision by a competent adult to seek medical assistance to end what appears to be a hopeless situation. Forcing people to 'stay in the fray' against their will because we cannot access effective means to end our suffering denies us a fundamental right to choose. I don't understand how you can make the leap from a private decision by an individual to Nazi euthenasia of people with disabilities. .. Are you suggesting Nazis simply expanded what began as an initiative to assist suffering individuals who expressed the desire to die? From my reading, that's quite a stretch!
          > >  
          > > Louise
          >

        • lm murray
          This Ontario class action lawsuit still before the courts - http://www.bcdisabilities.com/bcdisforum/viewtopic.php?t=77 - pretty much typifies the
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 23, 2009
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            This Ontario class action lawsuit still before the courts - http://www.bcdisabilities.com/bcdisforum/viewtopic.php?t=77 - pretty much typifies the HORRORS! of the Cdn crypto-fascist scheme. B.C. is even worse than Ontario, by the way. We are NOT your role model!
             
            Louise

            --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@...> wrote:

            From: Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@...>
            Subject: RE: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
            To: disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 10:13 PM

             
            As you know we in the US are in the middle of a fight to get soemthing like you have had for 40 years. How is NHS for people with disabilities?
             
            Marshall


            From: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com on behalf of Keith Armstrong
            Sent: Sat 7/18/2009 4:28 PM
            To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
            Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide

             
            In this situation I am glad I live in the UK and the National Health Service. While there are many improvements needed in the NHS at least no one in the UK has to worry about payment of general health care. Access to good health care should be a right that everyone should have.

            Keith

            --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@...> wrote:
            >
            > The Nazis of WWII trouble me no more or less than those of a supposedly civilized Cdn govt today that is actively creating a huge underclass by allowing U.S. insurance companies to erode what is still an essentially excellent national health scheme. Each time we lose a plank in the national health program, U.S. insurance firms are there, angling various leaders, esp union leaders, to take out private insurance to shore up the gaps. Workers whose employers can afford it pass go; those on restricted incomes - typically people with disabilities - do not. Legions of people on disability pensions in B.C. are literally starving to death half of every month because of a decision by the provincial govt to create only high-end condo boxes - no affordable housing at all - very little rental stock here anymore, in fact.  
            >
            > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...>
            > Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
            > To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
            > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 6:30 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi Louise,
            >
            > THE MEN BEHIND HITLER - A German warning to the world
            > by Bernhard Schreiber
            >
            > Link
            >
            > <http://www.toolan. com/hitler/ index.html>
            >
            > --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Keith,
            > >  
            > > I'm afraid I disagree. Bad housing is INDEED a reason to want to stop living when there is little or no hope for any improvement! The reality is that many people are forced by poverty to live terrible lives in some kind of hellish pain. In many cases, the possibility of any kind of release is just too remote. The pretense that all life is sacred is just that: a pretense. The fact that we allow so many to languish in unrelieved suffering while the boys fly off into space, for example, suggests pretty strongly that some life is more sacred than others. If resources are not directed at the radical causes of suffering, that suffering is unrelieved. In those circumstances, some of us will inevitably conclude that once we've tried everything we can think of to help ourselves and nothing changes, the only decision left is how to end it with the least amt of discomfort. I, for one, would like help from an expert if I get there.
            > >  
            > > I think it's ludicrous to draw parallels between acts of genocide perpetrated in wartime and the private decision by a competent adult to seek medical assistance to end what appears to be a hopeless situation. Forcing people to 'stay in the fray' against their will because we cannot access effective means to end our suffering denies us a fundamental right to choose. I don't understand how you can make the leap from a private decision by an individual to Nazi euthenasia of people with disabilities. .. Are you suggesting Nazis simply expanded what began as an initiative to assist suffering individuals who expressed the desire to die? From my reading, that's quite a stretch!
            > >  
            > > Louise
            >


          • lm murray
            Hi Marshall,   I d also like to be clear about that impossible partnership called two-tiered health care - it sucks BIG-time! Means the wealthy do far
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 25, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Marshall,
               
              I'd also like to be clear about that impossible partnership called two-tiered health care - it sucks BIG-time! Means the wealthy do far better than the poor. Always! Ultimately, people with disabilities experience the biggest service gaps . LOTS more about Canada's system in about three easy pieces http://www.bcdisabilities.com/bcdisforum/viewtopic.php?p=419#419.
               
              Louise  

              --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@...> wrote:

              From: Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@...>
              Subject: RE: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
              To: disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 10:13 PM

               
              As you know we in the US are in the middle of a fight to get soemthing like you have had for 40 years. How is NHS for people with disabilities?
               
              Marshall


              From: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com on behalf of Keith Armstrong
              Sent: Sat 7/18/2009 4:28 PM
              To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide

               
              In this situation I am glad I live in the UK and the National Health Service. While there are many improvements needed in the NHS at least no one in the UK has to worry about payment of general health care. Access to good health care should be a right that everyone should have.

              Keith

              --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@...> wrote:
              >
              > The Nazis of WWII trouble me no more or less than those of a supposedly civilized Cdn govt today that is actively creating a huge underclass by allowing U.S. insurance companies to erode what is still an essentially excellent national health scheme. Each time we lose a plank in the national health program, U.S. insurance firms are there, angling various leaders, esp union leaders, to take out private insurance to shore up the gaps. Workers whose employers can afford it pass go; those on restricted incomes - typically people with disabilities - do not. Legions of people on disability pensions in B.C. are literally starving to death half of every month because of a decision by the provincial govt to create only high-end condo boxes - no affordable housing at all - very little rental stock here anymore, in fact.  
              >
              > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...>
              > Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
              > To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
              > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 6:30 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Louise,
              >
              > THE MEN BEHIND HITLER - A German warning to the world
              > by Bernhard Schreiber
              >
              > Link
              >
              > <http://www.toolan. com/hitler/ index.html>
              >
              > --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Keith,
              > >  
              > > I'm afraid I disagree. Bad housing is INDEED a reason to want to stop living when there is little or no hope for any improvement! The reality is that many people are forced by poverty to live terrible lives in some kind of hellish pain. In many cases, the possibility of any kind of release is just too remote. The pretense that all life is sacred is just that: a pretense. The fact that we allow so many to languish in unrelieved suffering while the boys fly off into space, for example, suggests pretty strongly that some life is more sacred than others. If resources are not directed at the radical causes of suffering, that suffering is unrelieved. In those circumstances, some of us will inevitably conclude that once we've tried everything we can think of to help ourselves and nothing changes, the only decision left is how to end it with the least amt of discomfort. I, for one, would like help from an expert if I get there.
              > >  
              > > I think it's ludicrous to draw parallels between acts of genocide perpetrated in wartime and the private decision by a competent adult to seek medical assistance to end what appears to be a hopeless situation. Forcing people to 'stay in the fray' against their will because we cannot access effective means to end our suffering denies us a fundamental right to choose. I don't understand how you can make the leap from a private decision by an individual to Nazi euthenasia of people with disabilities. .. Are you suggesting Nazis simply expanded what began as an initiative to assist suffering individuals who expressed the desire to die? From my reading, that's quite a stretch!
              > >  
              > > Louise
              >


            • Mitchell, Marshall
              That s discouraging.Our system sucks. No one with a disability can get pivate insurance and you have to be totally in poverty to get any thing like Medicaid or
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 27, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                That's discouraging.Our system sucks. No one with a disability can get pivate insurance and you have to be totally in poverty to get any thing like Medicaid or Medicare. Is durable equiment like wheelchairs covered there? How about personal assistants?
                 
                Marshall


                From: disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com on behalf of lm murray
                Sent: Sat 7/25/2009 2:33 PM
                To: disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide

                 

                Hi Marshall,
                 
                I'd also like to be clear about that impossible partnership called two-tiered health care - it sucks BIG-time! Means the wealthy do far better than the poor. Always! Ultimately, people with disabilities experience the biggest service gaps . LOTS more about Canada's system in about three easy pieces http://www.bcdisabi lities.com/ bcdisforum/ viewtopic. php?p=419# 419.
                 
                Louise  

                --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@wsu. edu> wrote:

                From: Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@wsu. edu>
                Subject: RE: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
                To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
                Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 10:13 PM

                 
                As you know we in the US are in the middle of a fight to get soemthing like you have had for 40 years. How is NHS for people with disabilities?
                 
                Marshall


                From: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com on behalf of Keith Armstrong
                Sent: Sat 7/18/2009 4:28 PM
                To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
                Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide

                 
                In this situation I am glad I live in the UK and the National Health Service. While there are many improvements needed in the NHS at least no one in the UK has to worry about payment of general health care. Access to good health care should be a right that everyone should have.

                Keith

                --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@...> wrote:
                >
                > The Nazis of WWII trouble me no more or less than those of a supposedly civilized Cdn govt today that is actively creating a huge underclass by allowing U.S. insurance companies to erode what is still an essentially excellent national health scheme. Each time we lose a plank in the national health program, U.S. insurance firms are there, angling various leaders, esp union leaders, to take out private insurance to shore up the gaps. Workers whose employers can afford it pass go; those on restricted incomes - typically people with disabilities - do not. Legions of people on disability pensions in B.C. are literally starving to death half of every month because of a decision by the provincial govt to create only high-end condo boxes - no affordable housing at all - very little rental stock here anymore, in fact.  
                >
                > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...>
                > Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
                > To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
                > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 6:30 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi Louise,
                >
                > THE MEN BEHIND HITLER - A German warning to the world
                > by Bernhard Schreiber
                >
                > Link
                >
                > <http://www.toolan. com/hitler/ index.html>
                >
                > --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Keith,
                > >  
                > > I'm afraid I disagree. Bad housing is INDEED a reason to want to stop living when there is little or no hope for any improvement! The reality is that many people are forced by poverty to live terrible lives in some kind of hellish pain. In many cases, the possibility of any kind of release is just too remote. The pretense that all life is sacred is just that: a pretense. The fact that we allow so many to languish in unrelieved suffering while the boys fly off into space, for example, suggests pretty strongly that some life is more sacred than others. If resources are not directed at the radical causes of suffering, that suffering is unrelieved. In those circumstances, some of us will inevitably conclude that once we've tried everything we can think of to help ourselves and nothing changes, the only decision left is how to end it with the least amt of discomfort. I, for one, would like help from an expert if I get there.
                > >  
                > > I think it's ludicrous to draw parallels between acts of genocide perpetrated in wartime and the private decision by a competent adult to seek medical assistance to end what appears to be a hopeless situation. Forcing people to 'stay in the fray' against their will because we cannot access effective means to end our suffering denies us a fundamental right to choose. I don't understand how you can make the leap from a private decision by an individual to Nazi euthenasia of people with disabilities. .. Are you suggesting Nazis simply expanded what began as an initiative to assist suffering individuals who expressed the desire to die? From my reading, that's quite a stretch!
                > >  
                > > Louise
                >


              • Keith Armstrong
                We all need a health care system which is free at the point of delivery with doctors and other qualified health workers prioritising on the health of the
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 1, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  We all need a health care system which is free at the point of delivery with doctors and other qualified health workers prioritising on the health of the patient and treatments with evidence based medicine.

                  This is opposite to the model of business where competition is necessary.

                  People should not denied decent health care simply because of their income. The South African Congress of Trade Unions has a slogan 'An injury to one is an injury to all'.

                  I am alive today because of the NHS. While it is certainly not perfect it is better to leave medical decisions to the doctors who are directly treating you rather than to employees of insurance companies.

                  Keith

                  --- In disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com, lm murray <lmm789@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Marshall,
                  >  
                  > I'd also like to be clear about that impossible partnership called two-tiered health care - it sucks BIG-time! Means the wealthy do far better than the poor. Always! Ultimately, people with disabilities experience the biggest service gaps . LOTS more about Canada's system in about three easy pieces http://www.bcdisabilities.com/bcdisforum/viewtopic.php?p=419#419.
                  >  
                  > Louise  
                  >
                  > --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@...>
                  > Subject: RE: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
                  > To: disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 10:13 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > As you know we in the US are in the middle of a fight to get soemthing like you have had for 40 years. How is NHS for people with disabilities?
                  >  
                  > Marshall
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com on behalf of Keith Armstrong
                  > Sent: Sat 7/18/2009 4:28 PM
                  > To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > In this situation I am glad I live in the UK and the National Health Service. While there are many improvements needed in the NHS at least no one in the UK has to worry about payment of general health care. Access to good health care should be a right that everyone should have.
                  >
                  > Keith
                  >
                  > --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > The Nazis of WWII trouble me no more or less than those of a supposedly civilized Cdn govt today that is actively creating a huge underclass by allowing U.S. insurance companies to erode what is still an essentially excellent national health scheme. Each time we lose a plank in the national health program, U.S. insurance firms are there, angling various leaders, esp union leaders, to take out private insurance to shore up the gaps. Workers whose employers can afford it pass go; those on restricted incomes - typically people with disabilities - do not. Legions of people on disability pensions in B.C. are literally starving to death half of every month because of a decision by the provincial govt to create only high-end condo boxes - no affordable housing at all - very little rental stock here anymore, in fact.  
                  > >
                  > > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > From: Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...>
                  > > Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
                  > > To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
                  > > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 6:30 PM
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi Louise,
                  > >
                  > > THE MEN BEHIND HITLER - A German warning to the world
                  > > by Bernhard Schreiber
                  > >
                  > > Link
                  > >
                  > > <http://www.toolan com/hitler/ index.html>
                  > >
                  > > --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi Keith,
                  > > >  
                  > > > I'm afraid I disagree. Bad housing is INDEED a reason to want to stop living when there is little or no hope for any improvement! The reality is that many people are forced by poverty to live terrible lives in some kind of hellish pain. In many cases, the possibility of any kind of release is just too remote. The pretense that all life is sacred is just that: a pretense. The fact that we allow so many to languish in unrelieved suffering while the boys fly off into space, for example, suggests pretty strongly that some life is more sacred than others. If resources are not directed at the radical causes of suffering, that suffering is unrelieved. In those circumstances, some of us will inevitably conclude that once we've tried everything we can think of to help ourselves and nothing changes, the only decision left is how to end it with the least amt of discomfort. I, for one, would like help from an expert if I get there.
                  > > >  
                  > > > I think it's ludicrous to draw parallels between acts of genocide perpetrated in wartime and the private decision by a competent adult to seek medical assistance to end what appears to be a hopeless situation. Forcing people to 'stay in the fray' against their will because we cannot access effective means to end our suffering denies us a fundamental right to choose. I don't understand how you can make the leap from a private decision by an individual to Nazi euthenasia of people with disabilities. .. Are you suggesting Nazis simply expanded what began as an initiative to assist suffering individuals who expressed the desire to die? From my reading, that's quite a stretch!
                  > > >  
                  > > > Louise
                  > >
                  >
                • lm murray
                  Amen to that! ... From: Keith Armstrong Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide To:
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 3, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Amen to that!

                    --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@...> wrote:

                    From: Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@...>
                    Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
                    To: disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 3:19 AM

                     
                    We all need a health care system which is free at the point of delivery with doctors and other qualified health workers prioritising on the health of the patient and treatments with evidence based medicine.

                    This is opposite to the model of business where competition is necessary.

                    People should not denied decent health care simply because of their income. The South African Congress of Trade Unions has a slogan 'An injury to one is an injury to all'.

                    I am alive today because of the NHS. While it is certainly not perfect it is better to leave medical decisions to the doctors who are directly treating you rather than to employees of insurance companies.

                    Keith

                    --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Marshall,
                    >  
                    > I'd also like to be clear about that impossible partnership called two-tiered health care - it sucks BIG-time! Means the wealthy do far better than the poor. Always! Ultimately, people with disabilities  experience the biggest service gaps . LOTS more about Canada's system in about three easy pieces http://www.bcdisabi lities.com/ bcdisforum/ viewtopic. php?p=419# 419.
                    >  
                    > Louise  
                    >
                    > --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@... > wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@... >
                    > Subject: RE: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
                    > To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
                    > Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 10:13 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > As you know we in the US are in the middle of a fight to get soemthing like you have had for 40 years. How is NHS for people with disabilities?
                    >  
                    > Marshall
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com on behalf of Keith Armstrong
                    > Sent: Sat 7/18/2009 4:28 PM
                    > To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
                    > Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > In this situation I am glad I live in the UK and the National Health Service. While there are many improvements needed in the NHS at least no one in the UK has to worry about payment of general health care. Access to good health care should be a right that everyone should have.
                    >
                    > Keith
                    >
                    > --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > The Nazis of WWII trouble me no more or less than those of a supposedly civilized Cdn govt today that is actively creating a huge underclass by allowing U.S. insurance companies to erode what is still an essentially excellent national health scheme. Each time we lose a plank in the national health program, U.S. insurance firms are there, angling various leaders, esp union leaders, to take out private insurance to shore up the gaps. Workers whose employers can afford it pass go; those on restricted incomes - typically people with disabilities - do not. Legions of people on disability pensions in B.C. are literally starving to death half of every month because of a decision by the provincial govt to create only high-end condo boxes - no affordable housing at all - very little rental stock here anymore, in fact.  
                    > >
                    > > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > From: Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...>
                    > > Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
                    > > To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
                    > > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 6:30 PM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hi Louise,
                    > >
                    > > THE MEN BEHIND HITLER - A German warning to the world
                    > > by Bernhard Schreiber
                    > >
                    > > Link
                    > >
                    > > <http://www.toolan. com/hitler/ index.html>
                    > >
                    > > --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Keith,
                    > > >  
                    > > > I'm afraid I disagree. Bad housing is INDEED a reason to want to stop living when there is little or no hope for any improvement! The reality is that many people are forced by poverty to live terrible lives in some kind of hellish pain. In many cases, the possibility of any kind of release is just too remote. The pretense that all life is sacred is just that: a pretense. The fact that we allow so many to languish in unrelieved suffering while the boys fly off into space, for example, suggests pretty strongly that some life is more sacred than others. If resources are not directed at the radical causes of suffering, that suffering is unrelieved. In those circumstances, some of us will inevitably conclude that once we've tried everything we can think of to help ourselves and nothing changes, the only decision left is how to end it with the least amt of discomfort. I, for one, would like help from an expert if I get there.
                    > > >  
                    > > > I think it's ludicrous to draw parallels between acts of genocide perpetrated in wartime and the private decision by a competent adult to seek medical assistance to end what appears to be a hopeless situation. Forcing people to 'stay in the fray' against their will because we cannot access effective means to end our suffering denies us a fundamental right to choose. I don't understand how you can make the leap from a private decision by an individual to Nazi euthenasia of people with disabilities. .. Are you suggesting Nazis simply expanded what began as an initiative to assist suffering individuals who expressed the desire to die? From my reading, that's quite a stretch!
                    > > >  
                    > > > Louise
                    > >
                    >


                  • lm murray
                    ... Ugh! Yes and no. It s quite complicated. There are basically two streams in Canada - one federal and one feudal, I mean, provincial. Ten little fiefdoms,
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 3, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      ... Ugh! Yes and no. It's quite complicated. There are basically two streams in Canada - one federal and one feudal, I mean, provincial. Ten little fiefdoms, I mean, provinces have authority to create their own rules. Here's an annotated question and answer that will help explain how it works - or doesn't - http://www.bcdisabilities.com/bcdisforum/viewtopic.php?p=420#420.
                       
                      At the end of the day, assistive technologies and personal care services are meted out in the most paltry of ways. A STRONG! case must be made in EVERY case. Personal care is extremely tough to get here in B.C. if the claimant doesn't live alone. Family members (means women usually) are expected to provide these services voluntarily. In a very few cases there may some remuneration tho I've never heard of anyone who got it. It's a nightmare. There is no dignity. Worse, it adds unconscionable stress to relationships that are already in crisis, and I speak from personal experience here.
                       
                      Louise 

                      --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@...> wrote:

                      From: Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@...>
                      Subject: RE: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
                      To: disabilitystudies@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 8:17 PM

                       
                      That's discouraging. Our system sucks. No one with a disability can get pivate insurance and you have to be totally in poverty to get any thing like Medicaid or Medicare. Is durable equiment like wheelchairs covered there? How about personal assistants?
                       
                      Marshall


                      From: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com on behalf of lm murray
                      Sent: Sat 7/25/2009 2:33 PM
                      To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: RE: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide

                       
                      Hi Marshall,
                       
                      I'd also like to be clear about that impossible partnership called two-tiered health care - it sucks BIG-time! Means the wealthy do far better than the poor. Always! Ultimately, people with disabilities experience the biggest service gaps . LOTS more about Canada's system in about three easy pieces http://www.bcdisabi lities.com/ bcdisforum/ viewtopic. php?p=419# 419.
                       
                      Louise  

                      --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@wsu. edu> wrote:

                      From: Mitchell, Marshall <mitchem@wsu. edu>
                      Subject: RE: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
                      To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
                      Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 10:13 PM

                       
                      As you know we in the US are in the middle of a fight to get soemthing like you have had for 40 years. How is NHS for people with disabilities?
                       
                      Marshall


                      From: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com on behalf of Keith Armstrong
                      Sent: Sat 7/18/2009 4:28 PM
                      To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide

                       
                      In this situation I am glad I live in the UK and the National Health Service. While there are many improvements needed in the NHS at least no one in the UK has to worry about payment of general health care. Access to good health care should be a right that everyone should have.

                      Keith

                      --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The Nazis of WWII trouble me no more or less than those of a supposedly civilized Cdn govt today that is actively creating a huge underclass by allowing U.S. insurance companies to erode what is still an essentially excellent national health scheme. Each time we lose a plank in the national health program, U.S. insurance firms are there, angling various leaders, esp union leaders, to take out private insurance to shore up the gaps. Workers whose employers can afford it pass go; those on restricted incomes - typically people with disabilities - do not. Legions of people on disability pensions in B.C. are literally starving to death half of every month because of a decision by the provincial govt to create only high-end condo boxes - no affordable housing at all - very little rental stock here anymore, in fact.  
                      >
                      > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > From: Keith Armstrong <keith.armstrong12@ ...>
                      > Subject: [disabilitystudies] Re: FWD Lords reject amended law on assisted suicide
                      > To: disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com
                      > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 6:30 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Louise,
                      >
                      > THE MEN BEHIND HITLER - A German warning to the world
                      > by Bernhard Schreiber
                      >
                      > Link
                      >
                      > <http://www.toolan. com/hitler/ index.html>
                      >
                      > --- In disabilitystudies@ yahoogroups. com, lm murray <lmm789@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Keith,
                      > >  
                      > > I'm afraid I disagree. Bad housing is INDEED a reason to want to stop living when there is little or no hope for any improvement! The reality is that many people are forced by poverty to live terrible lives in some kind of hellish pain. In many cases, the possibility of any kind of release is just too remote. The pretense that all life is sacred is just that: a pretense. The fact that we allow so many to languish in unrelieved suffering while the boys fly off into space, for example, suggests pretty strongly that some life is more sacred than others. If resources are not directed at the radical causes of suffering, that suffering is unrelieved. In those circumstances, some of us will inevitably conclude that once we've tried everything we can think of to help ourselves and nothing changes, the only decision left is how to end it with the least amt of discomfort. I, for one, would like help from an expert if I get there.
                      > >  
                      > > I think it's ludicrous to draw parallels between acts of genocide perpetrated in wartime and the private decision by a competent adult to seek medical assistance to end what appears to be a hopeless situation. Forcing people to 'stay in the fray' against their will because we cannot access effective means to end our suffering denies us a fundamental right to choose. I don't understand how you can make the leap from a private decision by an individual to Nazi euthenasia of people with disabilities. .. Are you suggesting Nazis simply expanded what began as an initiative to assist suffering individuals who expressed the desire to die? From my reading, that's quite a stretch!
                      > >  
                      > > Louise
                      >



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