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Re: [differentskies] AUDIO FROM DIFFERENT SKIES 2008

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  • Greg Hurley
    It would be very easy to go back in and take out the audience - which may effect stereo spread and phase considerations (as well as EQ, which I really didn t
    Message 1 of 13 , May 31, 2009
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      It would be very easy to go back in and take out the audience - which may effect stereo spread and phase considerations (as well as EQ, which I really didn't use much of anyways).

      re: my piece 'Embedded Soul' - the jury is still out until I listen closely a few more times.

      Greg

      *****



      ________________________________
      From: D. K. Herpich <tepmuseq@...>
      To: differentskies@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:56:25 PM
      Subject: Re: [differentskies] AUDIO FROM DIFFERENT SKIES 2008






      --- Greg H. wrote:
      > I look forward to everyone's comments and
      > recommendations. I know I have mine :)

      First off, I want to thank Greg for the hours of hard work he's done on this, and for the enthusiasm he's brought to bear on the project.

      Since downloading the files for review, I've been pondering the mix of the show (board feed + audience feed) for a few days, and chatting off-list with a few people about what I see as the pros and cons of the combination.

      Both Mike and Greg have pointed out in the StillStream chat that there's been little comment, so I suppose I need to say my two cents' worth.

      In the end, I'm sorry to say that I'm just not a big fan of the combined concert mix, for several reasons:

      1) high audience noise levels throughout; for applause, the audience feed is great, but during the music I find it very distracting due to the high amount of feet shuffling, pages being fumbled, etc.

      2) some very extreme phase issues (most noticeable to me during Metlay's voiceovers)

      3) distorted peaks on the right channel at many points

      4) a fairly extreme stereo spread that sometimes seems to me to leave a bit of a hole in the center

      5) an EQ from the resulting combination which sounds, to my admittedly untrained ears, as being boomy and short on mid-range or "presence" in places

      6) lots of incidental pops and clicks (which may not be attributable specifically to the audience feed, of course)

      For all these reasons, my personal opinion is that we'd be better off sticking to the board mix alone during the pieces. But I happily sit back down and open the floor to further discussion on the matter.

      Now, getting down to my choice as the leader of a piece...

      I've compared the rehearsal version of the track I led, "Clock Blocker," to the concert mix. The rehearsal is good, but not as good, and has some audio problems due to CPU problems I was having at the time.

      So I want to go with the concert version. But I would like to use a version that has only the board mix, without the audience feed.

      =====
      David Herpich
      tepmuseq@yahoo. com
      Emerald Adrift - electronic music to annoy your robots
      http://www.myspace. com/emeraldadrif t
      "The Blue Flower" - free album download
      http://earthmantra. com/theblueflowe r
      Zen Caffeine - ambient radio with an edge
      http://www.stillstream.com/schedule.php
      =====




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jonathan Mills
      OK, FWIW, I ve listened to all the show twice (and will listen againon the flight to NYC today). I did not realize that Greg had mixed thetracks from FOH &
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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        OK, FWIW, I've listened to all the show twice (and will listen againon the flight to NYC today). I did not realize that Greg had mixed thetracks from FOH & audience feed. Jeez, what an incredible job!


        To me (a noob at even the idea of putting tracks together for alive show and only a theoretical notion of phase cancellation, etc.),the show sounded, well, *live* (duh) but thin (?) compared to someother live shows I've got. So maybe that is what David is saying inpoints (4) and (5).


        As for The Fire Balloons, at the moment, and I need to review thismore, I prefer the second take. It is tighter, and captures the flavorof the piece. FWIW.


        Thanks to Greg for putting this together. No matter what, I'mkeeping all of it. I gotta tell you guys, it brought tears to my eyeswhen Mike told the audience I'd beaten tongue cancer. I sure hopeso, and want to let you all how much hope that little bit of stage talkgave me. I just. won't. know. until maybe even as late as 2011 ifthe surgery and treatment worked. I try not to think about it, butall of us who have encountered the Big C know that we live in akind of shadow during early remission. It lasts years, and I am oneof the lucky ones since its is only 2-3 years instead of 5+.


        It really helps to hear things like that. Again. And again. Selfishly,it made DS'08 very special to me, and you guys (that means Jeannie,too) made the week like one of those "Make a Wish" deals. Shit. I'mstartin' to cry again. Anyway, thanks.


        OK. Gotta finish packin' to go to NYC.


        Bless you all,


        Slate


        --- On Mon, 6/1/09, Greg Hurley <siriusbliss@...> wrote:

        From: Greg Hurley <siriusbliss@...>
        Subject: Re: [differentskies] AUDIO FROM DIFFERENT SKIES 2008
        To: differentskies@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 4:08 AM
























        It would be very easy to go back in and take out the audience - which may effect stereo spread and phase considerations (as well as EQ, which I really didn't use much of anyways).



        re: my piece 'Embedded Soul' - the jury is still out until I listen closely a few more times.



        Greg



        *****



        ____________ _________ _________ __

        From: D. K. Herpich <tepmuseq@yahoo. com>

        To: differentskies@ yahoogroups. com

        Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:56:25 PM

        Subject: Re: [differentskies] AUDIO FROM DIFFERENT SKIES 2008



        --- Greg H. wrote:

        > I look forward to everyone's comments and

        > recommendations. I know I have mine :)



        First off, I want to thank Greg for the hours of hard work he's done on this, and for the enthusiasm he's brought to bear on the project.



        Since downloading the files for review, I've been pondering the mix of the show (board feed + audience feed) for a few days, and chatting off-list with a few people about what I see as the pros and cons of the combination.



        Both Mike and Greg have pointed out in the StillStream chat that there's been little comment, so I suppose I need to say my two cents' worth.



        In the end, I'm sorry to say that I'm just not a big fan of the combined concert mix, for several reasons:



        1) high audience noise levels throughout; for applause, the audience feed is great, but during the music I find it very distracting due to the high amount of feet shuffling, pages being fumbled, etc.



        2) some very extreme phase issues (most noticeable to me during Metlay's voiceovers)



        3) distorted peaks on the right channel at many points



        4) a fairly extreme stereo spread that sometimes seems to me to leave a bit of a hole in the center



        5) an EQ from the resulting combination which sounds, to my admittedly untrained ears, as being boomy and short on mid-range or "presence" in places



        6) lots of incidental pops and clicks (which may not be attributable specifically to the audience feed, of course)



        For all these reasons, my personal opinion is that we'd be better off sticking to the board mix alone during the pieces. But I happily sit back down and open the floor to further discussion on the matter.



        Now, getting down to my choice as the leader of a piece...



        I've compared the rehearsal version of the track I led, "Clock Blocker," to the concert mix. The rehearsal is good, but not as good, and has some audio problems due to CPU problems I was having at the time.



        So I want to go with the concert version. But I would like to use a version that has only the board mix, without the audience feed.



        =====

        David Herpich

        tepmuseq@yahoo. com

        Emerald Adrift - electronic music to annoy your robots

        http://www.myspace. com/emeraldadrif t

        "The Blue Flower" - free album download

        http://earthmantra. com/theblueflowe r

        Zen Caffeine - ambient radio with an edge

        http://www.stillstr eam.com/schedule .php

        =====



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • D. K. Herpich
        ... My father s cancer has been in remission for 12 years this summer. In his case, his tumor was initially dicovered after he d been unable to shake what he
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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          --- Jonathan Mills wrote:
          > I just. won't. know. until maybe even as late as 2011
          > if the surgery and treatment worked. I try not to think
          > about it, but all of us who have encountered the Big C
          > know that we live in a kind of shadow during early
          > remission. It lasts years, and I am one of the lucky
          > ones since its is only 2-3 years instead of 5+.


          My father's cancer has been in remission for 12 years this summer.

          In his case, his tumor was initially dicovered after he'd been unable to shake what he thought was the flu, for about two or three weeks. In that sense, you could say that getting "the flu" saved his life, thanks to a careful doctor (the third or fourth he went to for help).

          I can certainly recall that in the first few years, each time he felt a little under the weather for a day or two, he was worried that it was the disease coming back. Of course, even minor bugs can be very serious when you're in the early stages of recovery.

          But as the years go by, your strength and vigor slowly regroup, and that shadow of fear starts to recede as things get back on track.

          As an observer of the ups and down of the last 12 years, my best advice for you is to do your best to keep focused on your personal goals. The more you find something to occupy and motivate yourself with the things you love to do, the more I believe your body will fight to stay healthy.

          Best wishes to you on your upcoming travels, and here's to the plan of sharing a celebratory dinner with you in 2016 or thereabouts, to mark your first 10 of many years of victory over the shadow. It'll also make a good excuse for us to organize another electronic music festival. ;-)



          =====
          David Herpich
          tepmuseq@...
          Emerald Adrift - electronic music to annoy your robots
          http://www.myspace.com/emeraldadrift
          "The Blue Flower" - free album download
          http://earthmantra.com/theblueflower
          Zen Caffeine - ambient radio with an edge
          http://www.stillstream.com/schedule.php
          =====
        • Ivan
          ... Heat, dirt, dust, scorpions, tarantulas, and a plethora of synth-heads. If you can survive a week of that you can survive anything. Ivan
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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            --- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Mills <shamaniaq@...> wrote:
            >
            > It really helps to hear things like that. Again. And again. Selfishly,it made DS'08 very special to me, and you guys (that means Jeannie,too) made the week like one of those "Make a Wish" deals. Shit. I'mstartin' to cry again. Anyway, thanks.
            >

            Heat, dirt, dust, scorpions, tarantulas, and a plethora of synth-heads. If you can survive a week of that you can survive anything.

            Ivan
          • wjm_medic
            Ivan s description reminds me of a certain Englishman post-doc, very proper in appearance and diction, but slightly eccentric in demeanor. This was in the
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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              Ivan's description reminds me of a certain Englishman post-doc, very proper in appearance and diction, but slightly eccentric in demeanor. This was in the physics department at the university where I did my undergrad.

              He worked for the Cosmic Ray Astro-Physics group (a/k/a the CRAP group), and they periodically went to the Australian outback for month-long research outings using high altitude balloons to poke through the thinner ozone layer there.

              One evening when he was packing for the trip, I noticed his golf bag in the back of his car. I remarked that golf would be a good way to pass the time. He explained the the clubs were also useful for keeping the camp clear of scorpions and other such unpleasant critters. He distained using woods for these tasks ("too messy"), but specifically said the he liked using a pitching wedge for scorpions, because it gave them "the right amount of loft".

              The mental image I have of Alan lining up his shot remains fresh to this day.


              --- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, "Ivan" <ivancu@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Mills <shamaniaq@> wrote:
              > >
              > > It really helps to hear things like that. Again. And again. Selfishly,it made DS'08 very special to me, and you guys (that means Jeannie,too) made the week like one of those "Make a Wish" deals. Shit. I'mstartin' to cry again. Anyway, thanks.
              > >
              >
              > Heat, dirt, dust, scorpions, tarantulas, and a plethora of synth-heads. If you can survive a week of that you can survive anything.
              >
              > Ivan
              >
            • Ivan
              ... I should throw a wedge in the van. Oddly enough, while I am a horrible golfer, I m pretty good at getting the ball out of the sand traps. I m definitely
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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                --- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, "wjm_medic" <wjm2@...> wrote:
                >
                > He explained the the clubs were also useful for keeping the camp clear of scorpions and other such unpleasant critters. He distained using woods for these tasks ("too messy"), but specifically said the he liked using a pitching wedge for scorpions, because it gave them "the right amount of loft".
                >

                I should throw a wedge in the van. Oddly enough, while I am a horrible golfer, I'm pretty good at getting the ball out of the sand traps.

                I'm definitely getting a UV flashlight though; I had a lot of fun with Mike's doing evening critter spotting.

                Maybe we can have a late night scorpion golf competition. It would be fun to see those little glowing bodies flying through the air. BYOA (Bring your own Absinthe).

                Ivan
              • Mike Metlay
                Belatedly... ... And my mom s has been in remission for 23 years this spring. I took a final exam in my second year of grad school for a course I had to pass
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 6, 2009
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                  Belatedly...

                  D. K. Herpich wrote:
                  > --- Jonathan Mills wrote:
                  >
                  >> I just. won't. know. until maybe even as late as 2011
                  >> if the surgery and treatment worked. I try not to think
                  >> about it, but all of us who have encountered the Big C
                  >> know that we live in a kind of shadow during early
                  >> remission. It lasts years, and I am one of the lucky
                  >> ones since its is only 2-3 years instead of 5+.
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > My father's cancer has been in remission for 12 years this summer.
                  >
                  >
                  And my mom's has been in remission for 23 years this spring. I took a
                  final exam in my second year of grad school for a course I had to pass
                  in order to stay in the program with a prof who refused to let me
                  reschedule, while my mom was down the street in the hospital going under
                  the knife. I was a wreck... far worse than she was, and she's been
                  careful but cheerful ever since, and is now 89 and chipper. A positive
                  outlook and careful monitoring add up to a greatly increased chance of
                  happiness in the end.

                  mike

                  --
                  "I often read/hear something along the lines of "This sounds like Berlin
                  School but with a twist" but I never hear "This sounds like ambient but
                  with a twist". Why? Because in ambient, you're allowed to HAVE twists--
                  if you're not already doing nothing BUT twists." (g. folkvord, mostly)
                  <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
                  i'm metlay@... * www.mindspiral.com * www.differentskies.com
                • Mike Metlay
                  ... Don t get your hopes up too high unless it s unseasonably warm, guys... by late October I ll be very surprised if we see more than one scorpion the whole
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jun 6, 2009
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                    Ivan wrote:
                    > --- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, "wjm_medic" <wjm2@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> He explained the the clubs were also useful for keeping the camp clear of scorpions and other such unpleasant critters. He distained using woods for these tasks ("too messy"), but specifically said the he liked using a pitching wedge for scorpions, because it gave them "the right amount of loft".
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    > I should throw a wedge in the van. Oddly enough, while I am a horrible golfer, I'm pretty good at getting the ball out of the sand traps.
                    >
                    > I'm definitely getting a UV flashlight though; I had a lot of fun with Mike's doing evening critter spotting.
                    >
                    > Maybe we can have a late night scorpion golf competition. It would be fun to see those little glowing bodies flying through the air. BYOA (Bring your own Absinthe).
                    >
                    >
                    Don't get your hopes up too high unless it's unseasonably warm, guys...
                    by late October I'll be very surprised if we see more than one scorpion
                    the whole week. It's too damn cold for them. But better safe than
                    sorry... I'll pack mine if you can't find one, Ivan.

                    mike

                    --
                    "I often read/hear something along the lines of "This sounds like Berlin
                    School but with a twist" but I never hear "This sounds like ambient but
                    with a twist". Why? Because in ambient, you're allowed to HAVE twists--
                    if you're not already doing nothing BUT twists." (g. folkvord, mostly)
                    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
                    i'm metlay@... * www.mindspiral.com * www.differentskies.com
                  • Ivan
                    ... What brand is the one you ve got? I got a cheapy from China but it doesn t work that well. I think it isn t as short of wavelength light as the one you
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jun 8, 2009
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                      --- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Mike Metlay <metlay@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Don't get your hopes up too high unless it's unseasonably warm, guys...
                      > by late October I'll be very surprised if we see more than one scorpion
                      > the whole week. It's too damn cold for them. But better safe than
                      > sorry... I'll pack mine if you can't find one, Ivan.
                      >

                      What brand is the one you've got? I got a cheapy from China but it doesn't work that well. I think it isn't as short of wavelength light as the one you had at DS08.

                      Ivan
                    • Mike Metlay
                      ... I got the one I have as a gift from a company displaying at Summer NAMM in Austin a couple of years ago; they make, among other things, glow in the dark
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jun 8, 2009
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                        Ivan wrote:
                        > --- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Mike Metlay <metlay@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >>
                        >> Don't get your hopes up too high unless it's unseasonably warm, guys...
                        >> by late October I'll be very surprised if we see more than one scorpion
                        >> the whole week. It's too damn cold for them. But better safe than
                        >> sorry... I'll pack mine if you can't find one, Ivan.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        > What brand is the one you've got? I got a cheapy from China but it doesn't work that well. I think it isn't as short of wavelength light as the one you had at DS08.
                        >
                        > Ivan
                        >

                        I got the one I have as a gift from a company displaying at Summer NAMM
                        in Austin a couple of years ago; they make, among other things, glow in
                        the dark drumsticks and other illuminated musical toys, and sell/use the
                        megaUV torches to demo their products. I need to hunt through my
                        towering pile of business cards to see if I can remember the company, or
                        search my NAMM directory if I still have it lying around. A google
                        search might bear fruit...

                        mike

                        --
                        "I often read/hear something along the lines of "This sounds like Berlin
                        School but with a twist" but I never hear "This sounds like ambient but
                        with a twist". Why? Because in ambient, you're allowed to HAVE twists--
                        if you're not already doing nothing BUT twists." (g. folkvord, mostly)
                        <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
                        i'm metlay@... * www.mindspiral.com * www.differentskies.com
                      • Jeff Kunzelman
                        Listened to all of this driving cross country. The level seemed a little low but hard to tell in a car stereo. One note is that 16 Conquering The Void_Take1
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jun 19, 2009
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                          Listened to all of this driving cross country. The level seemed a
                          little low but hard to tell in a car stereo. One note is that

                          16 Conquering The Void_Take1 9:02

                          is the keeper version of biologic communication

                          Seems like a pretty interesting mix of segments from the jams the
                          merits of which will be debated for sure. Fart Bubble came to mind for
                          probable titles, but I think over all there's more good then bad. I
                          always enjoy listening to the jams more then the show pieces. But some
                          of the show pieces were great driving music. Barbarians at the Gate is
                          great for driving thru the desert as well as Merciless Sky. East Pole
                          was disturbing cause I could not tell what was rattling in the the
                          vehicle or what was on the recording. At one point i was convinced I
                          was having transmission problems. Probably not advisable to listen to
                          with a van full of gear, a OCD driver and a 12 hour drive to different
                          skies 2009.





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jeff Kunzelman
                          Fart Bubble is presented here in the spirit of the sandwich moments, not my impression of the recording as a whole. ;-) ... [Non-text portions of this message
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jun 19, 2009
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                            Fart Bubble is presented here in the spirit of the sandwich moments,
                            not my impression of the recording as a whole. ;-)



                            On Jun 19, 2009, at 8:35 AM, Jeff Kunzelman wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Listened to all of this driving cross country. The level seemed a
                            > little low but hard to tell in a car stereo. One note is that
                            >
                            > 16 Conquering The Void_Take1 9:02
                            >
                            > is the keeper version of biologic communication
                            >
                            > Seems like a pretty interesting mix of segments from the jams the
                            > merits of which will be debated for sure. Fart Bubble came to mind for
                            > probable titles, but I think over all there's more good then bad. I
                            > always enjoy listening to the jams more then the show pieces. But some
                            > of the show pieces were great driving music. Barbarians at the Gate is
                            > great for driving thru the desert as well as Merciless Sky. East Pole
                            > was disturbing cause I could not tell what was rattling in the the
                            > vehicle or what was on the recording. At one point i was convinced I
                            > was having transmission problems. Probably not advisable to listen to
                            > with a van full of gear, a OCD driver and a 12 hour drive to different
                            > skies 2009.
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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