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Re: [diatom_forum] What can we do?

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  • Richard Carter
    Leszek, I would be happy to participate in a group project of this sort.  That s because, being happily retired, I have plenty of time.  However, I know that
    Message 1 of 12 , May 5, 2012
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      Leszek,

      I would be happy to participate in a group project of this sort.  That's because, being happily retired, I have plenty of time.  However, I know that many others in the group do not have as much time as I do, and I would hate to "bite off more than we could chew".  Perhaps others will chime in with their opinions?

      Regards,

      Dick


      From: leszekwolnik <leszek@...>
      To: diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2012 1:41 PM
      Subject: [diatom_forum] What can we do?

       
      Hi

      Recent posts, by Dick, Dave, Klaus et al coupled with Dick's frustration with current publishing have made me wonder if we shouldn't, as a collective group, try writing and publishing one or two small books (ebooks) of our own? I know this, in itself, doesn't solve any of the issues under discussion but could be worth considering.

      I think that professional and amateur diatomists alike would find small site specific books with species lists complete with images and notes extremely useful.

      Tackling Toomebridge and the allied sites wouldn't be onerous if it was shared between us and could prove to be great fun.

      I'd be delighted to take on the design, artwork and ebook formatting, and, with the excellent photographic skills of several members coupled with our taxonomists, well, how could we fail when we're so sincere!

      If Toomebridge worked then we could try cracking Cherryfield in the same manner and I think that a larger, accessible book tackling 'An introduction to Diatoms' using a broad sweep would be seized on by many students.

      Is there any appetite for trying something like this between us?

      Also, if anyone needs sight of any article in Diatom Research, they can let me know which one and I can provide a copy for us to discuss.

      Kind regards

      Leszek

    • David Richman
      Leszek, This is certainly a possibility. Back in 1977 one David Hill and I, while graduate students at the University of Florida and both deeply involved in
      Message 2 of 12 , May 5, 2012
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        Leszek,

        This is certainly a possibility.  Back in 1977 one David Hill and I, while graduate students at the University of Florida and both deeply involved in the study of jumping spiders (Salticidae), formed The Peckham Society, named after George and Elizabeth Peckham.  Since then David left a postdoc position at Cornell and went to work for one of the major phone companies, from which he retired a few years ago.  He moved to South Carolina and re-instituted the Peckham Society, reviving our old newsletter as a oneline free access journal, welcoming papers from professional and amateur alike.  We now can easily do color.  To see what David did see:


        This is now a repository for both current and historical publications on jumping spiders (about 5500 species world-wide.

        David Richman


        On May 5, 2012, at 8:26 PM, Richard Carter wrote:

         

        Leszek,

        I would be happy to participate in a group project of this sort.  That's because, being happily retired, I have plenty of time.  However, I know that many others in the group do not have as much time as I do, and I would hate to "bite off more than we could chew".  Perhaps others will chime in with their opinions?

        Regards,

        Dick


        From: leszekwolnik <leszek@...>
        To: diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2012 1:41 PM
        Subject: [diatom_forum] What can we do?

         
        Hi

        Recent posts, by Dick, Dave, Klaus et al coupled with Dick's frustration with current publishing have made me wonder if we shouldn't, as a collective group, try writing and publishing one or two small books (ebooks) of our own? I know this, in itself, doesn't solve any of the issues under discussion but could be worth considering.

        I think that professional and amateur diatomists alike would find small site specific books with species lists complete with images and notes extremely useful.

        Tackling Toomebridge and the allied sites wouldn't be onerous if it was shared between us and could prove to be great fun.

        I'd be delighted to take on the design, artwork and ebook formatting, and, with the excellent photographic skills of several members coupled with our taxonomists, well, how could we fail when we're so sincere!

        If Toomebridge worked then we could try cracking Cherryfield in the same manner and I think that a larger, accessible book tackling 'An introduction to Diatoms' using a broad sweep would be seized on by many students.

        Is there any appetite for trying something like this between us?

        Also, if anyone needs sight of any article in Diatom Research, they can let me know which one and I can provide a copy for us to discuss.

        Kind regards

        Leszek



      • charles suslavage
        Hi Dick, Thank you for the Information and I will ID all four as var. hibernica. I am adding an additional image of Cymatopleura elliptica this possibly a
        Message 3 of 12 , May 6, 2012
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          Hi Dick,

          Thank you for the Information and I will ID all four as var. hibernica. I am adding an additional image of Cymatopleura elliptica this possibly a questionable variety constricta or just an interesting mutant.

          Charles




          From: Richard Carter <rcarter68502@...>
          To: "diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com" <diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sat, May 5, 2012 1:00:28 PM
          Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Toome Bridge fun - Cymatopleura

           

          Charles.

          Very nice photos!  Your ID's are spot on, save for "C. elliptica var. apiculata W. Smith".  In 1853 Smith described C. apiculata; this was later made a variety of C. solea by Ralfs, not a variety of elliptica.  The CAS catalogue shows no combination of elliptica with apiculata, as either variety or form.  The British Atlas does indeed illustrate C. elliptica fo. apiculata W. Smith, as you say.  I have no idea where they got this name.  The Index Nominum Algarum also shows that Smith's taxon was made a var. of solea, although they trace the combination to Grunow 1862, rather than Ralfs in Pritchard 1861.  I'd go along with ID'ing all four specimens as var. hibernica.

          I regret that the nominate variety of elliptica did not appear on version 3.0 of my Toome Bridge flora; this was a deliberate omission at that time, as I had found it only on two slides which I suspected of some contamination.  Version 5.0, which I began in January and continue to work on, does contain this name, as I'm now convinced that the two "suspect" slides are OK.  Your fine photos are excellent confirmation!!  I am in hopes that version 5.0 will be ready for posting before too long -- I must still review all of the Pinnularia and Stauroneis.  The latter genus has grown considerably since version 3.0!

          Warmest regards,

          Dick


          From: charles <suslavage@...>
          To: diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2012 11:44 AM
          Subject: [diatom_forum] Toome Bridge fun - Cymatopleura

           
          Hi All,

          I have uploaded two images of Cymatopleura elliptica. The image with the two horizontal examples are simply Cymatopleura elliptica (Brebisson) W. Smith (this not listed in Dicks floral list for Toome Bridge). The second image of four vertical examples are var. of C. elliptica. Number 1 could be identified as Cymatopleura elliptica fo apiculata W. Smith but I do not know if this is a valid name. numbers three and four I would ID as C. elliptica var. hibernica (W. Smith) Van Heurck. Image two seems to split the difference between numbers one and three. I am using "An Atlas of British Diatoms" for reference in this instance. If I were using the photos from "Subwasserflora" as a reference then I would ID all four in image two as C. elliptica var. hibernica. Not having written discriptions prevents me from going any further with the ID process.

          Charles



        • charles suslavage
          Hi Leszek, I would be very happy to join a group effort at producing an ebook and Toomebridge would be an excellent choice. The trick though is to keep the
          Message 4 of 12 , May 6, 2012
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            Hi Leszek,

            I would be very happy to join a group effort at producing an ebook and Toomebridge would be an excellent choice. The trick though is to keep the effort manageable with a clear goal and specific guide lines.

            Charles




            From: leszekwolnik <leszek@...>
            To: diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, May 5, 2012 1:41:23 PM
            Subject: [diatom_forum] What can we do?

             

            Hi

            Recent posts, by Dick, Dave, Klaus et al coupled with Dick's frustration with current publishing have made me wonder if we shouldn't, as a collective group, try writing and publishing one or two small books (ebooks) of our own? I know this, in itself, doesn't solve any of the issues under discussion but could be worth considering.

            I think that professional and amateur diatomists alike would find small site specific books with species lists complete with images and notes extremely useful.

            Tackling Toomebridge and the allied sites wouldn't be onerous if it was shared between us and could prove to be great fun.

            I'd be delighted to take on the design, artwork and ebook formatting, and, with the excellent photographic skills of several members coupled with our taxonomists, well, how could we fail when we're so sincere!

            If Toomebridge worked then we could try cracking Cherryfield in the same manner and I think that a larger, accessible book tackling 'An introduction to Diatoms' using a broad sweep would be seized on by many students.

            Is there any appetite for trying something like this between us?

            Also, if anyone needs sight of any article in Diatom Research, they can let me know which one and I can provide a copy for us to discuss.

            Kind regards

            Leszek

            --- In diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com, Richard Carter <rcarter68502@...> wrote:
            >
            > Charles.
            >
            > Very nice photos!  Your ID's are spot on, save for "C. ellipticavar. apiculataW. Smith".  In 1853 Smith described C. apiculata; this was later made a variety of C. soleaby Ralfs, not a variety of elliptica.  The CAS catalogue shows no combination of ellipticawith apiculata, as either variety or form.  The British Atlas does indeed illustrate C. ellipticafo. apiculataW. Smith, as you say.  I have no idea where they got this name.  The Index Nominum Algarum also shows that Smith's taxon was made a var. of solea, although they trace the combination to Grunow 1862, rather than Ralfs in Pritchard 1861.  I'd go along with ID'ing all four specimens as var. hibernica.
            >
            > I regret that the nominate variety of ellipticadid not appear on version 3.0 of my Toome Bridge flora; this was a deliberate omission at that time, as I had found it only on two slides which I suspected of some contamination.  Version 5.0, which I began in January and continue to work on, does contain this name, as I'm now convinced that the two "suspect" slides are OK.  Your fine photos are excellent confirmation!!  I am in hopes that version 5.0 will be ready for posting before too long -- I must still review all of the Pinnulariaand Stauroneis.  The latter genus has grown considerably since version 3.0!
            >
            >
            > Warmest regards,
            >
            > Dick
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: charles <suslavage@...>
            > To: diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2012 11:44 AM
            > Subject: [diatom_forum] Toome Bridge fun - Cymatopleura
            >
            >
            >  
            > Hi All,
            >
            > I have uploaded two images of Cymatopleura elliptica. The image with the two horizontal examples are simply Cymatopleura elliptica (Brebisson) W. Smith (this not listed in Dicks floral list for Toome Bridge). The second image of four vertical examples are var. of C. elliptica. Number 1 could be identified as Cymatopleura elliptica fo apiculata W. Smith but I do not know if this is a valid name. numbers three and four I would ID as C. elliptica var. hibernica (W. Smith) Van Heurck. Image two seems to split the difference between numbers one and three. I am using "An Atlas of British Diatoms" for reference in this instance. If I were using the photos from "Subwasserflora" as a reference then I would ID all four in image two as C. elliptica var. hibernica. Not having written discriptions prevents me from going any further with the ID process.
            >
            > Charles
            >

          • Richard Carter
            Charles, I think your new Cymatopleuraphoto falls into your latter category -- an interesting mutant or teratological form.  The constricta varieties/forms
            Message 5 of 12 , May 7, 2012
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              Charles,

              I think your new Cymatopleura photo falls into your latter category -- an interesting mutant or teratological form.  The "constricta" varieties/forms are common throughout the Surirellaceae, but so far as I know such forms are always symmetrical with reference to the transapical axis.

              Glad to see you are interested in Leszek's idea for a Toome Bridge E-book.  I think you should be the official photographer!

              Warmest regards,

              Dick


              From: charles suslavage <suslavage@...>
              To: diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 2:13 PM
              Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Toome Bridge fun - Cymatopleura

               
              Hi Dick,
              Thank you for the Information and I will ID all four as var. hibernica. I am adding an additional image of Cymatopleura elliptica this possibly a questionable variety constricta or just an interesting mutant.
              Charles

            • charles suslavage
              Hello Dick, I found your comment about the varieties/forms, mutants, of Surirellaceae being symmetrical about the transapical axis interesting. I have found
              Message 6 of 12 , May 11, 2012
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                Hello Dick,

                I found your comment about the varieties/forms, mutants, of Surirellaceae being symmetrical about the transapical axis interesting. I have found several interesting mutants that are only constricted on one side.

                I thank you for suggesting that I take on the post of official photographer but I think that would not be in the spirit of the project. As a group effort the only post that needs to be designated is that of editor. It has been pointed out that many members of our group produce excellent photos and that we can assume members have Toomebridge slides in their collections. What needs to be established is precise guide lines for individual images so that they can be logically combined. We could and I think we should designate one person as photo coordinator for images who would work closely with the editor.

                I do like the E-book idea. A high level outline would seem appropriate.

                Charles




                From: Richard Carter <rcarter68502@...>
                To: "diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com" <diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Mon, May 7, 2012 11:37:50 AM
                Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Toome Bridge fun - Cymatopleura

                 

                Charles,

                I think your new Cymatopleura photo falls into your latter category -- an interesting mutant or teratological form.  The "constricta" varieties/forms are common throughout the Surirellaceae, but so far as I know such forms are always symmetrical with reference to the transapical axis.

                Glad to see you are interested in Leszek's idea for a Toome Bridge E-book.  I think you should be the official photographer!

                Warmest regards,

                Dick


                From: charles suslavage <suslavage@...>
                To: diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 2:13 PM
                Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Toome Bridge fun - Cymatopleura

                 
                Hi Dick,
                Thank you for the Information and I will ID all four as var. hibernica. I am adding an additional image of Cymatopleura elliptica this possibly a questionable variety constricta or just an interesting mutant.
                Charles

              • Richard Carter
                Charles, Thank you for your reply.  You are right, I m sure, in saying that we have a number of good photographers in the group!  I wish we could get more of
                Message 7 of 12 , May 11, 2012
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                  Charles,

                  Thank you for your reply.  You are right, I'm sure, in saying that we have a number of good photographers in the group!  I wish we could get more of them interested in Toome Bridge, but perhaps others will jump on the bandwagon........?

                  My comment about symmetrical forms/varieties in the Surirellaceae needs some amplification, I think.  I did not mean to imply that "constricta" forms arise from casual, repeated mutation.  What I meant was that these forms are somehow "regularly available" to most Surirella and Cymatopleura species, and that the genetic mechanism responsible always produces a symmetrical valve outline.  (This is similar to the "incisa" forms that are found in Fragilaria, for example -- although they are generally not symmetrical.)  Casual mutation/teratology, on the other hand, can easily produce bizarre asymmetries -- not the same phenomenon as the "constricta" forms, as I understand it.  I'm going to have another look at the publication on surirellacean phylogeny, to see if they discussed this at all.

                  As for an editor for the Toome Bridge E-book: I think Leszek has already indicated his willingness to take that on.  So I guess we will need his suggestions as to a format for images.  I personally have no axe to grind here, except to reiterate my disdain for scale bars, and liking for extended captions, ha ha!

                  Warmest regards,

                  Dick


                  From: charles suslavage <suslavage@...>
                  To: diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 7:42 AM
                  Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Toome Bridge fun - Cymatopleura

                   
                  Hello Dick,
                  I found your comment about the varieties/forms, mutants, of Surirellaceae being symmetrical about the transapical axis interesting. I have found several interesting mutants that are only constricted on one side.
                  I thank you for suggesting that I take on the post of official photographer but I think that would not be in the spirit of the project. As a group effort the only post that needs to be designated is that of editor. It has been pointed out that many members of our group produce excellent photos and that we can assume members have Toomebridge slides in their collections. What needs to be established is precise guide lines for individual images so that they can be logically combined. We could and I think we should designate one person as photo coordinator for images who would work closely with the editor.
                  I do like the E-book idea. A high level outline would seem appropriate.
                  Charles



                  From: Richard Carter <rcarter68502@...>
                  To: "diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com" <diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Mon, May 7, 2012 11:37:50 AM
                  Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Toome Bridge fun - Cymatopleura

                   
                  Charles,

                  I think your new Cymatopleura photo falls into your latter category -- an interesting mutant or teratological form.  The "constricta" varieties/forms are common throughout the Surirellaceae, but so far as I know such forms are always symmetrical with reference to the transapical axis.

                  Glad to see you are interested in Leszek's idea for a Toome Bridge E-book.  I think you should be the official photographer!

                  Warmest regards,

                  Dick

                • charles suslavage
                  Hi Dick, The extended caption bars are OK and I do like your presentation but how dose Laszek visualize overall presentation? I do like scale bars for a number
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 11, 2012
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                    Hi Dick,

                    The extended caption bars are OK and I do like your presentation but how dose Laszek visualize overall presentation? I do like scale bars for a number of reasons. It allows anyone to check the validity of presented numbers. Scale bars allow for measurements not presented. You can present several images at different magnifications on a single page if each has an accompanying scale bar. Like you I am flexible and only require guidance.

                    I think I am done with Cymatopleura and am now starting on Epithemia a little more challenging.

                    Charles



                    From: Richard Carter <rcarter68502@...>
                    To: "diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com" <diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Fri, May 11, 2012 11:39:29 AM
                    Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Toome Bridge fun - Cymatopleura

                     

                    Charles,

                    Thank you for your reply.  You are right, I'm sure, in saying that we have a number of good photographers in the group!  I wish we could get more of them interested in Toome Bridge, but perhaps others will jump on the bandwagon........?

                    My comment about symmetrical forms/varieties in the Surirellaceae needs some amplification, I think.  I did not mean to imply that "constricta" forms arise from casual, repeated mutation.  What I meant was that these forms are somehow "regularly available" to most Surirella and Cymatopleura species, and that the genetic mechanism responsible always produces a symmetrical valve outline.  (This is similar to the "incisa" forms that are found in Fragilaria, for example -- although they are generally not symmetrical.)  Casual mutation/teratology, on the other hand, can easily produce bizarre asymmetries -- not the same phenomenon as the "constricta" forms, as I understand it.  I'm going to have another look at the publication on surirellacean phylogeny, to see if they discussed this at all.

                    As for an editor for the Toome Bridge E-book: I think Leszek has already indicated his willingness to take that on.  So I guess we will need his suggestions as to a format for images.  I personally have no axe to grind here, except to reiterate my disdain for scale bars, and liking for extended captions, ha ha!

                    Warmest regards,

                    Dick


                    From: charles suslavage <suslavage@...>
                    To: diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 7:42 AM
                    Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Toome Bridge fun - Cymatopleura

                     
                    Hello Dick,
                    I found your comment about the varieties/forms, mutants, of Surirellaceae being symmetrical about the transapical axis interesting. I have found several interesting mutants that are only constricted on one side.
                    I thank you for suggesting that I take on the post of official photographer but I think that would not be in the spirit of the project. As a group effort the only post that needs to be designated is that of editor. It has been pointed out that many members of our group produce excellent photos and that we can assume members have Toomebridge slides in their collections. What needs to be established is precise guide lines for individual images so that they can be logically combined. We could and I think we should designate one person as photo coordinator for images who would work closely with the editor.
                    I do like the E-book idea. A high level outline would seem appropriate.
                    Charles



                    From: Richard Carter <rcarter68502@...>
                    To: "diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com" <diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Mon, May 7, 2012 11:37:50 AM
                    Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Toome Bridge fun - Cymatopleura

                     
                    Charles,

                    I think your new Cymatopleura photo falls into your latter category -- an interesting mutant or teratological form.  The "constricta" varieties/forms are common throughout the Surirellaceae, but so far as I know such forms are always symmetrical with reference to the transapical axis.

                    Glad to see you are interested in Leszek's idea for a Toome Bridge E-book.  I think you should be the official photographer!

                    Warmest regards,

                    Dick

                  • Richard Carter
                    Charles, You will have fun with Epithemia, for sure!  It s a great genus to work with: not too speciose, and the differences among the described taxa are
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 11, 2012
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                      Charles,

                      You will have fun with Epithemia, for sure!  It's a great genus to work with: not too speciose, and the differences among the described taxa are fairly straight-forward, I think.  Unlike such genera as Navicula s. s., Gomphonema, and Stauroneis, where the distinctions among described taxa can be extremely subtle for those not totally familiar with them.  (I am making good progress with Stauroneis, but Navicula and Gomphonema are still way beyond my limited ability, and are likely to remain so.)  I am currently finishing up the cleaning of a sample from here in Arizona that has a lot of Epithemia in it, and I'll send you a strew when it's done.  No idea how many taxa there are from a mere preliminary scan -- one or more, ha ha!

                      Thanks for your input on images, too.  Hopefully, we will soon have some consensus (perhaps benevolently imposed by our editor?), and can get to work making the photos we will need.

                      All the best,

                      Dick


                      From: charles suslavage <suslavage@...>
                      To: diatom_forum@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 12:03 PM
                      Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Toome Bridge fun - Cymatopleura

                       
                      Hi Dick,
                      The extended caption bars are OK and I do like your presentation but how dose Laszek visualize overall presentation? I do like scale bars for a number of reasons. It allows anyone to check the validity of presented numbers. Scale bars allow for measurements not presented. You can present several images at different magnifications on a single page if each has an accompanying scale bar. Like you I am flexible and only require guidance.
                      I think I am done with Cymatopleura and am now starting on Epithemia a little more challenging.
                      Charles

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