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Re: [dsg] Re: effort. Buddha quotes.

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Alex and friends, Tomorrow I go away for a few days, returning Tuesday. ... N: Yes, you have to find out for yourself whether what you hear and read is
    Message 1 of 39 , Jul 3 1:41 AM
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      Dear Alex and friends,
      Tomorrow I go away for a few days, returning Tuesday.
      Op 2-jul-2009, om 23:17 heeft Alex het volgende geschreven:

      > The need to hear instruction from knowledgeble meditation masters
      > (not scholars!) AND the suttas. It is also important to have at
      > least a bit of discernment ability for oneself, so that one could
      > discern helpful from not.
      -------
      N: Yes, you have to find out for yourself whether what you hear and
      read is helpful to have at least a beginning detachment from the idea
      of self.
      There is citta all the time, but there is a different citta at each
      moment. Seeing is a citta different from hearing, cittas experience
      different objects. Seeing experiences visible object, hearing
      experiences sound. At one moment we may be generous, and the next
      moment we may be angry, and it seems that we are as it were different
      personalities. In reality there are different cittas arising because
      of different conditions. Nobody can be generous or kind on command.
      Thus we can understand already in theory that cittas do not belong to
      a self. It is understanding that can develop and we can begin at this
      moment, in daily life.
      ----------
      >
      > N> As to label, this is a difficult word, not so clear to me.
      > >Labelling seems to be naming, and that is thinking.
      >
      > A: It is NOT thinking or getting lost in thought. It is a tool to
      > be attentive toward the arisen namarupa. At most 10% attention is
      > toward the label and 90%+ toward that namarupa phenomena.
      -------
      N: I am inclined to avoid the expression namarupa, since they are,
      each one of them, different realities. Nama experiences something and
      rupa does not experience anything. When we take them together as a
      whole, there cannot be detachment from the idea of self IMO.
      Labeling: I think that each nama and rupa has a different
      characteristic, and these can be directly experienced when they
      appear one at a time, without naming or labelling them. In that way
      we can learn that they are only elements, nama elements and rupa
      elements.
      I think that while there is attention to the label, it is thinking,
      and while we are thinking about nama or rupa they have fallen away
      already. They arise and fall away so rapidly.
      Instead of labelling I would like to emphasize understanding of the
      characteristics that appear. Only what appears at the present moment,
      one dhamma at a time, can be investigated and understood.
      ------
      Nina.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • sarah abbott
      Hi Alex, ... ..... A: Please explain your view on anatta. Do you view our situation ability to control to be like a rock falling down the mountain? In that
      Message 39 of 39 , Jul 22 11:10 PM
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        Hi Alex,

        --- On Sun, 19/7/09, Alex <truth_aerator@...> wrote:

        >> S: You often say that you accept and understand dhammas as anatta, so what exactly do you understand this "effort (that)MUST BE DONE in an active (and dare I say, conventional) sense" to be? How do you understand it to come about exactly? If you start using vague terms like 'meditation' in your answer, please spell out exactly what you are referring to in terms of dhammas that are anatta.
        .....
        A:>Please explain your view on anatta. Do you view our situation ability to control to be like a rock falling down the mountain? In that case it would be pointless to talk about volition, effort, doing or even Kamma, since what intentional action (kamma), and effort can a rock do (to stop or accelerate the falling)?

        Note: considering, wise attention, reading, satipatthana IS DOING.
        ....
        S: Sorry, Alex....I might be slow here, but I don't see how your comments are answering my questions:-). You answer mine first, then I'll take a look at yours (preferably reposted) afterwards.

        Thanks in advance,

        Metta

        Sarah
        ======
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