Re: [dsg] Re: effort. Buddha quotes.
- Dear Alex and friends,
Tomorrow I go away for a few days, returning Tuesday.
Op 2-jul-2009, om 23:17 heeft Alex het volgende geschreven:
> The need to hear instruction from knowledgeble meditation masters-------
> (not scholars!) AND the suttas. It is also important to have at
> least a bit of discernment ability for oneself, so that one could
> discern helpful from not.
N: Yes, you have to find out for yourself whether what you hear and
read is helpful to have at least a beginning detachment from the idea
There is citta all the time, but there is a different citta at each
moment. Seeing is a citta different from hearing, cittas experience
different objects. Seeing experiences visible object, hearing
experiences sound. At one moment we may be generous, and the next
moment we may be angry, and it seems that we are as it were different
personalities. In reality there are different cittas arising because
of different conditions. Nobody can be generous or kind on command.
Thus we can understand already in theory that cittas do not belong to
a self. It is understanding that can develop and we can begin at this
moment, in daily life.
> N> As to label, this is a difficult word, not so clear to me.
> >Labelling seems to be naming, and that is thinking.
> A: It is NOT thinking or getting lost in thought. It is a tool to
> be attentive toward the arisen namarupa. At most 10% attention is
> toward the label and 90%+ toward that namarupa phenomena.
N: I am inclined to avoid the expression namarupa, since they are,
each one of them, different realities. Nama experiences something and
rupa does not experience anything. When we take them together as a
whole, there cannot be detachment from the idea of self IMO.
Labeling: I think that each nama and rupa has a different
characteristic, and these can be directly experienced when they
appear one at a time, without naming or labelling them. In that way
we can learn that they are only elements, nama elements and rupa
I think that while there is attention to the label, it is thinking,
and while we are thinking about nama or rupa they have fallen away
already. They arise and fall away so rapidly.
Instead of labelling I would like to emphasize understanding of the
characteristics that appear. Only what appears at the present moment,
one dhamma at a time, can be investigated and understood.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- Hi Alex,
--- On Sun, 19/7/09, Alex <truth_aerator@...> wrote:
>> S: You often say that you accept and understand dhammas as anatta, so what exactly do you understand this "effort (that)MUST BE DONE in an active (and dare I say, conventional) sense" to be? How do you understand it to come about exactly? If you start using vague terms like 'meditation' in your answer, please spell out exactly what you are referring to in terms of dhammas that are anatta.
A:>Please explain your view on anatta. Do you view our situation ability to control to be like a rock falling down the mountain? In that case it would be pointless to talk about volition, effort, doing or even Kamma, since what intentional action (kamma), and effort can a rock do (to stop or accelerate the falling)?
Note: considering, wise attention, reading, satipatthana IS DOING.
S: Sorry, Alex....I might be slow here, but I don't see how your comments are answering my questions:-). You answer mine first, then I'll take a look at yours (preferably reposted) afterwards.
Thanks in advance,