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[dsg] Nature of anicca, dukkha and anatta (was, Re: effort.)

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  • Robert Epstein
    Hi Sarah. ... Well....It seems to me that the wise writers of these commentaries would not use so many similes with a consistent sort of action implied if it
    Message 1 of 670 , May 2, 2009
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      Hi Sarah.

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, sarah abbott <sarahprocterabbott@...> wrote:

      > S: These are just similes and metaphors given to indicate that vitakka assists the citta 'investigate' or 'enter the palace'. forget the similes if they don't help. Actually, I remember K.Sujin saying she doesn't find similes helpful, so you'd be in good company.....if they don't help the understanding of dhammas, let them go!

      Well....It seems to me that the wise writers of these commentaries would not use so many similes with a consistent sort of action implied if it was totally off the mark, and not at all relevant. I would really like to see a detailed description of how vitakka works; you know, the kind they have for the dhamma - seven cittas of this, seven of that - something that is precise enough to remove doubt about the process. Something like that must exist somewhere.....

      I mean, as you say, lifetimes of cittas are necessary to develop the panna to go from level A to level B, etc., so there is a process of investigating and growing wiser and clearer that is passed along. I don't see why vitakka can't do the same with its repeated beatings and turnings. I'd like to find out in any case. I have an instinctive idea of how this can work, but I can't convince anyone I'm right. :(

      Best,
      Robert E.

      = = = = = = =
    • sarah abbott
      Hi Alberto, #99196 ... .... A: As far as I know Dhs & Cy don t refers to pa~n~natti/nirutti/ adhivacana in terms of sacca, neither as sammuti nor, of course,
      Message 670 of 670 , Aug 2, 2009
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        Hi Alberto,

        #99196

        --- On Tue, 14/7/09, sprlrt <sprlrt@...> wrote:
        >> S: Alberto, what do you think of the following from U Silananda's Abhidhammattha Sangaha hand-outs:
        >
        > "Two kinds of truth recognized in Buddhism:
        > a) Conventional Truth, and
        > b) Ultimate Truth
        >
        > a) Conventional Truth (Sammuti Sacca):
        >
        > 1. Conventional Truth is that which conforms to the convention or usage of the world, e.g., a car.
        > 2. It is called Sammuti Sacca in Paa.li.
        > 3. It is also called Pa~n~natti = concept
        > 4. Two kinds of Pa~n~natti:
        > a) Naama-pa~n~natti = name-concept, which makes things known, i.e., names given to objects.
        > b) Attha-pa~n~natti = thing-concept, which is made known, i.e., the objects conveyed by the names or concepts.
        > 5. Pa~n~natti is timeless.
        ....

        A:> As far as I know Dhs & Cy don't refers to pa~n~natti/nirutti/ adhivacana in terms of sacca, neither as sammuti nor, of course, as paramattha.
        ....
        S: I would say that all sammuti sacca are pa~n~natti, such as "a car" as in the example given. However, we can't say that all pa~n~natti are sammuti sacca. If a baby calls the car a tree, for example, it's not sammuti sacca.
        ...
        S: Thanks for all the other quotes.

        How about enjoying your summer vacation on list with us whenever you can chip in:-)

        Metta

        Sarah
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