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Re: [dsg] Nature of anicca, dukkha and anatta (was, Re: effort.)

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  • sarah abbott
    Hi Rob Ep, part 1 ... .... S: :-) Likewise.... .. ... .... S: :-) Desperately seeking would be pretty akusala, but the function of vitakka as thrashing its
    Message 1 of 670 , Apr 30, 2009
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      Hi Rob Ep,

      part 1

      --- On Tue, 28/4/09, Robert Epstein <epsteinrob@...> wrote:
      >Thanks for including me in this post, even though it is obviously beyond my limited understanding. :-)
      ....
      S: :-) Likewise....
      ..

      >I am still waiting desperately for someone to explain how this "threshing" and "beating" takes place, leaving aside how tough all this abuse must be on the poor dhamma. :( They thresh it, beat it, turn it over and thresh it and beat it again. This seems akusala to me.
      ....
      S: :-) Desperately seeking would be pretty akusala, but the function of vitakka as 'thrashing' its object is very, very common and need not be akusala! Yes, no wonder dhammas are said to be 'oppressed' - arising, being thrashed and more and then falling away instantly:-).

      Think of a citta (a moment of consciousness) experiencing its object, but only with the assistance of other factors to contact, focus on, lay hold of/thrash, feel, attend to and so on. Apart from a few specific cittas, mainly the sense experiencing cittas such as seeing and hearing which don't need the assistance of vitakka to direct (or lead) the citta onto its object, all other cittas do need this assistance. In the Atthasalini, the simile is given of someone wanting to enter the king's palace, but needing the assistance of a someone close to the king to do this.

      I need to get a drink after just returning from the beach, so will post this and get back to the rest in a minute.

      Metta,

      Sarah
      ========
    • sarah abbott
      Hi Alberto, #99196 ... .... A: As far as I know Dhs & Cy don t refers to pa~n~natti/nirutti/ adhivacana in terms of sacca, neither as sammuti nor, of course,
      Message 670 of 670 , Aug 2, 2009
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        Hi Alberto,

        #99196

        --- On Tue, 14/7/09, sprlrt <sprlrt@...> wrote:
        >> S: Alberto, what do you think of the following from U Silananda's Abhidhammattha Sangaha hand-outs:
        >
        > "Two kinds of truth recognized in Buddhism:
        > a) Conventional Truth, and
        > b) Ultimate Truth
        >
        > a) Conventional Truth (Sammuti Sacca):
        >
        > 1. Conventional Truth is that which conforms to the convention or usage of the world, e.g., a car.
        > 2. It is called Sammuti Sacca in Paa.li.
        > 3. It is also called Pa~n~natti = concept
        > 4. Two kinds of Pa~n~natti:
        > a) Naama-pa~n~natti = name-concept, which makes things known, i.e., names given to objects.
        > b) Attha-pa~n~natti = thing-concept, which is made known, i.e., the objects conveyed by the names or concepts.
        > 5. Pa~n~natti is timeless.
        ....

        A:> As far as I know Dhs & Cy don't refers to pa~n~natti/nirutti/ adhivacana in terms of sacca, neither as sammuti nor, of course, as paramattha.
        ....
        S: I would say that all sammuti sacca are pa~n~natti, such as "a car" as in the example given. However, we can't say that all pa~n~natti are sammuti sacca. If a baby calls the car a tree, for example, it's not sammuti sacca.
        ...
        S: Thanks for all the other quotes.

        How about enjoying your summer vacation on list with us whenever you can chip in:-)

        Metta

        Sarah
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