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Re: The Secluded Place. Discussions with Khun Sujin in Bangkok, 197...

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  • jonoabb
    Hi Lukas ... Well there is a connection, I would say, but it s not a very direct one. I think we ve all had the experience of unwholesome deeds or thoughts
    Message 1 of 46 , Apr 2, 2009
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      Hi Lukas

      > > Yes, akusala citta can be a condition for kusala citta (an example would be giving a donation in part because of wanting to be seen as a generous person, i.e., conceit).
      >
      > L: There are also similar examples in Tipitaka, but I dont think so that is a correct and exact example of kusala citta being conditioned by akusala. It's just a simile, and it's OK. But only pa~n~na can know how it all happens. I think that is a matter of direct understanding of realities.
      > -----------------------------

      Well there is a connection, I would say, but it's not a very direct one. I think we've all had the experience of unwholesome deeds or thoughts being followed very closely by wholesome thoughts, because of some association made.

      Thanks for coming in and sharing your views.

      Jon
    • upasaka@aol.com
      Hi, Sarah - In a message dated 4/12/2009 8:46:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sarahprocterabbott@yahoo.co.uk writes: Hi Howard, ... only bring kusala vipaka
      Message 46 of 46 , Apr 12, 2009
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        Hi, Sarah -

        In a message dated 4/12/2009 8:46:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        sarahprocterabbott@... writes:

        Hi Howard,

        --- On Sun, 12/4/09, upasaka@... <upasaka@...> wrote:
        >>S:However, in terms of dhammas, in terms of Abhidhamma, kusala kamma can
        only bring kusala vipaka and vice versa.
        ------------ --------- --------- --------- -------
        H:> What you say next contradicts this.
        ------------ --------- --------- --------- -------
        S: I don't think so. We have to distinguish between akusala kamma (patha)
        which brings results in the form of akusala vipaka only and what I refer to
        next (and which you were referring to), i.e. akusala cittas which
        condition kusala cittas (NOT vipaka) by way of natural decisive support condition,
        not kamma condition:
        ----------------------------------------------------
        I didn't mean to imply the "kamma --> vipaka" relation, but merely
        conditionality. Sorry for the confusion.
        --------------------------------------------------



        S:>>What you may be referring to is how unwholesome states can be a
        condition (exceptionally) for wholesome states by way of natural decisive support
        condition.
        ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------
        H:> So???? Is this not supportive of what I said? If not, why not? My
        point was that among conditions for wholesome states can be unwholesome
        states.
        I still believe that, and I consider what you wrote above as showing that
        it is a belief supported by the Abhidhamma.
        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -
        S:>> A good example of this is avijja (as in D.O.) as condition for
        wholesome
        states to arise. No avijja, no birth, > no kusala of any kind.
        ...
        S: OK, all agreed....:-))
        ---------------------------------------------
        :-)
        ----------------------------------------------



        Metta,

        Sarah
        =============================
        With metta,
        Howard


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