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Rob Ep's Q. was: The Introduction of New Terms and Expressions.

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Rob Ep, continuation: N: ...Body-consciousness is vipaakacitta and it ... Are you saying that body consciousness is a particular type of citta? Does it
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 22, 2009
      Dear Rob Ep,
      continuation:
      N: ...Body-consciousness is vipaakacitta and it
      > is accompanied by bodily feeling that is also vipaaka.

      Are you saying that "body consciousness" is a particular type of
      citta? Does it include the whole category of various perceptions of
      the body, or is it specific type of body perception?
      -------
      N: It is one of the five sense-cognitions that are vipaakacitta,
      result of kamma, such as seeing, hearing etc. These five experience a
      sense object through one of the five sense-doors. Body-consciousnes
      (kaya-vi~n~naa.na) experiences hardness or softness (Element of
      Earth), heat or cold (Element of Fire) and motion or pressure
      (Element of Wind).
      Seeing is accompanied by indifferent feeling, but body-consciousness
      is accompanied by pleasant bodily feeling or painful bodily feeling,
      since the impact of the object is more violent than in the case of
      seeing.
      Body-consciousness arises in a process of cittas which have a certain
      fixed order. First there is the adverting-consciousness, then the
      vipaakacitta of body-consciousness to be followed by two more
      vipaakacittas. Then follows the determining-consciousness and after
      that the javanacittas which are either kusala cittas or akusala
      cittas (the reaction to the object experienced).
      We often have akusala cittas with like or dislike.
      ---------

      N:...The different cittas in a
      > process arise so closely one after the other that it is difficult to
      > distinguish between them.
      -------
      R: Is there a simple way to indicate the order in which a group of
      cittas
      with their cetasikas might follow in sequence? For instance, is there
      "body-awareness" followed by some cittas of "hardness, firmness, pain,
      movement," etc., interspersed with "pleasure, uncertainty, neutrality,
      tiredness, annoyance, heaviness,"etc. or some such order that adds up
      to the process?
      -------
      N: I gave the order of cittas above only in short. The akusala cittas
      can be accompanied by different kinds of akusala cetasikas. Then
      follows another process of cittas experiencing the same object
      through the mind-door. Here again there are javana cittas that are
      kusala or akusala.

      Painful bodily feeling that is vipaaka is rather a passive kind of
      feeling, but it is so closely followed by akusala citta with mental
      unhappy feeling that it is hard to know the difference.

      For processes you can look at my Abhidhamma in Daily life< http://
      www.zolag.co.uk/ > free downloads.

      Nina.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Robert Epstein
      ... Thank you, Nina, for both sets of quotes, in the two separate posts. I will also follow up to look at the processes via your book online, as time will
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 22, 2009
        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom
        <vangorko@...> wrote:

        > N: I gave the order of cittas above only in short. The akusala cittas
        > can be accompanied by different kinds of akusala cetasikas. Then
        > follows another process of cittas experiencing the same object
        > through the mind-door. Here again there are javana cittas that are
        > kusala or akusala.
        >
        > Painful bodily feeling that is vipaaka is rather a passive kind of
        > feeling, but it is so closely followed by akusala citta with mental
        > unhappy feeling that it is hard to know the difference.
        >
        > For processes you can look at my Abhidhamma in Daily life< http://
        > www.zolag.co.uk/ > free downloads.
        >
        > Nina.

        Thank you, Nina, for both sets of quotes, in the two separate posts.
        I will also follow up to look at the processes via your book online,
        as time will allow.

        Best,
        Robert E.

        =============================
      • Robert Epstein
        Hi Nina! [repeating with greeting.] ... Thank you, Nina, for both sets of quotes, in the two separate posts. I will also follow up to look at the processes
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 22, 2009
          Hi Nina! [repeating with greeting.]

          --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom
          <vangorko@...> wrote:

          > N: I gave the order of cittas above only in short. The akusala cittas
          > can be accompanied by different kinds of akusala cetasikas. Then
          > follows another process of cittas experiencing the same object
          > through the mind-door. Here again there are javana cittas that are
          > kusala or akusala.
          >
          > Painful bodily feeling that is vipaaka is rather a passive kind of
          > feeling, but it is so closely followed by akusala citta with mental
          > unhappy feeling that it is hard to know the difference.
          >
          > For processes you can look at my Abhidhamma in Daily life< http://
          > www.zolag.co.uk/ > free downloads.
          >
          > Nina.

          Thank you, Nina, for both sets of quotes, in the two separate posts.
          I will also follow up to look at the processes via your book online,
          as time will allow.

          Best,
          Robert E.

          =============================
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