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Sri Lanka Revisited, Ch 6, no 6.

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear friends, When the first stage of insight-knowledge arises pañña realizes the difference between nåma and rúpa through the mind-door. Cittas that
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 10, 2008
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      Dear friends,

      When the first stage of insight-knowledge arises pañña realizes the
      difference between nåma and rúpa through the mind-door. Cittas that
      experience objects arise in a series or process of cittas. There are
      processes of cittas that experience an object through one of the
      sense-doors and processes of cittas that experience an object through
      the mind-door. For example, visible object is experienced by cittas
      arising in the eye-door process and after that visible object is
      experienced by cittas arising in a mind-door process. When seeing
      arises, it seems to last, at least for a while. It may seem that
      there is seeing without interruption. In reality visible object,
      after it has been experienced through the eye-door, is experienced
      through the mind-door. It seems that seeing is immediately followed
      by hearing but in reality there must have been many processes of
      citta in between. However, we do not notice this, cittas arise and
      fall away very quickly. Rúpas that are sense objects such as visible
      object or sound, can be experienced through their corresponding sense-
      door and through the mind-door, and nåma, such as seeing or hearing,
      can be experienced only through the mind-door. Thus, through the mind-
      door both nåma and rúpa can be experienced. When the difference
      between nåma and rúpa is realized by paññå, it is realized during a
      mind-door process. At those moments it is also known what a mind-door
      process is. At this moment we know it in theory, but at the moment of
      insight-knowledge it is directly known. At such moments there is no
      self, no world, and nåma and rúpa clearly appear one at a time
      through the mind-door.

      It is useful to know about the stages of insight-knowledge, otherwise
      we may erroneously believe that stages of insight have arisen
      already. Paññå is bound to be weak in the beginning. There may
      sometimes be awareness of a rúpa and sometimes of a nåma, but we
      should not take our weak knowledge for the first stage of insight-
      knowledge. There is likely to be an idea of self who is mindful. Is
      it already clearly known what the mind-door is? It is beneficial to
      know what one does not know yet.

      ******

      Nina.




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear friends, “How can we begin to develop paññå”, this was a question that people often asked. Acharn Sujin invariably answered: “Develop it now!”
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 26, 2012
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        Dear friends,

        �How can we begin to develop pa����, this was a question that people
        often asked. Acharn Sujin invariably answered: �Develop it now!�
        There is no other way because right understanding can only begin at
        the present moment and all the material to be studied is there
        already; thus, we have to develop it now. Do we believe that we have
        to do something else first, such as thinking of n�ma and r�pa, before
        there can be mindfulness? Thinking and considering are very useful,
        but we should not believe that we have to think first in order to
        induce the arising of sati. When we think of n�ma and r�pa, it is
        conditioned, we could not think of them if we had not studied the
        Dhamma. There is no self who thinks. At that very moment there can be
        mindfulness and understanding of thinking as only a reality, and that
        is the beginning of pa���. Some people may believe that thinking is
        not suitable as object of awareness. When thinking arises, that is
        the reality of the present moment, we should not wait. When people
        were worried about there being more often thinking than mindfulness,
        Acharn Sujin said: �What about this moment?� She remarked:

        �We should not forget to develop right understanding of seeing as
        only an experience, different from visible object which appears.
        Develop it now. How can pa��� be clear immediately, just at the
        moment of awareness? Develop understanding, don�t worry about it when
        it is not clear yet. When understanding arises more often it will be
        clearer.�

        Don�t we expect too much in the beginning? When realities do not
        appear clearly we become impatient already and we wonder how pa���
        can ever develop. We should not be afraid to develop understanding of
        a n�ma or r�pa which appears now, even if pa��� does not know it
        clearly. Isn�t there time and again an object impinging on one of the
        six doors?

        Through ignorance of realities we are enslaved by our many
        defilements. When pa��� is being developed now there will eventually
        be detachment and freedom from defilements. We read at the end of the
        �Discourse on the Six Sixes� which was quoted above about the
        detachment brought about by right understanding of realities:

        �Seeing this thus, monks, the instructed ariyan disciple turns away
        from eye, turns away from visible objects, turns away from eye-
        consciousness, turns away from eye-contact, turns away from feeling,
        turns away from craving. He turns away from ear, he turns away from
        sounds... He turns away from nose, he turns away from smells... He
        turns away from tongue, he turns away from tastes... He turns away
        from body, he turns away from touches... He turns away from mind, he
        turns away from mental objects, he turns away from mind-
        consciousness, he turns away from mind-contact, he turns away from
        feeling, he turns away from craving. Turning away he is
        dispassionate; by dispassion he is freed; in freedom is the knowledge
        that he is freed, and he comprehends: Destroyed is birth, brought to
        a close the Brahma-faring, done is what was to be done, there is no
        more of being such or so.�

        ---------

        Nina.






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      • philip
        Dear Nibs ... Ph: All the material to be studied is there already. Moments of seeing and visible object, moments of hearing and sound, and lobha and other
        Message 4 of 8 , Oct 27, 2012
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          Dear Nibs
          >
          > "How can we begin to develop paññå", this was a question that people
          > often asked. Acharn Sujin invariably answered: "Develop it now!"
          > There is no other way because right understanding can only begin at
          > the present moment and all the material to be studied is there
          > already; thus, we have to develop it now.

          Ph: "All the material to be studied is there already."
          Moments of seeing and visible object, moments of hearing and sound, and lobha and other defilements arising in response. There can be studying of them now, in a natual, unforced way. Is this pariyatti? Or is pariyatti the things we cannot study through their arising but only know of through books, such as bhavanga cittas, for example?

          Anyways, why speak of pariyatti? I think we can be too attracted to terminology
          and categories. What is appearing now can be studied, "all the material necessary..." ...do we really need to call it pariyatti or patipati, do we need to name it and categorize it? The way Abhidhamma does so is beautiful, but...

          Phil








          > a
        • philip
          Dear Nina ... There is no Nibs! Phil
          Message 5 of 8 , Oct 27, 2012
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            Dear Nina
            >
            > Dear Nibs
            > >

            There is no Nibs!

            Phil
          • Nina van Gorkom
            Dear Yawares, ... N:It is a wheel publication and it would be best to ask them directly. For me, of course, anumodana. Gabi sent me a copy with her condoleance
            Message 6 of 8 , Oct 27, 2012
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              Dear Yawares,
              Op 27-okt-2012, om 16:33 heeft Yawares Sastri het volgende geschreven:

              > I'm interested in the book "The Problem Of Fear In Time Of Grief",
              > do you have this book online as dhammadhana? If yes, may I copy and
              > post it at SD/JTN/DW daily?
              >
              -------
              N:It is a wheel publication and it would be best to ask them
              directly. For me, of course, anumodana. Gabi sent me a copy with her
              condoleance letter to me as a reminder. For me, it is a time of
              grief. I can do with any reminder.
              Nina.
            • Nina van Gorkom
              Dear Phil, ... N: Remember the long discussions with Scott. Pariyatti always concerns the present moment. It is not theory or what we find . Only
              Message 7 of 8 , Oct 27, 2012
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                Dear Phil,
                Op 27-okt-2012, om 16:57 heeft philip het volgende geschreven:
                >
                > Ph: "All the material to be studied is there already."
                > Moments of seeing and visible object, moments of hearing and sound,
                > and lobha and other defilements arising in response. There can be
                > studying of them now, in a natual, unforced way. Is this pariyatti?
                >
                ------
                N: Remember the long discussions with Scott. Pariyatti always
                concerns the present moment. It is not theory or what we find <in the
                book>. Only thus it can gradually lead to pa.tipatti, reaching for a
                particular reality as Kh Sujin explained.
                ------
                > Ph: Anyways, why speak of pariyatti? I think we can be too
                > attracted to terminology
                > and categories. What is appearing now can be studied, "all the
                > material necessary..." ...do we really need to call it pariyatti or
                > patipati, do we need to name it and categorize it? The way
                > Abhidhamma does so is beautiful, but...
                >
                ----
                N: No need to call it anything.
                ------
                Nina.
                >



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              • Yawares Sastri
                Dear Nina, Thank you very much for your anumodana, I take it as yes you ll let me post your dhamma-articles @ SD/JTN/Dhamma Wheel. And I ll do so, starting
                Message 8 of 8 , Oct 28, 2012
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                  Dear Nina,

                  Thank you very much for your anumodana, I take it as 'yes' you'll let me post your dhamma-articles @ SD/JTN/Dhamma Wheel. And I'll do so, starting soon.

                  Truly appreciate,
                  yawares

                  > Dear Yawares,

                  For me, of course, anumodana.
                  > Nina.
                  >
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