Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [dsg] Re: Buddha taught UNDERSTANDING. Here is what it means.

Expand Messages
  • Jonothan Abbott
    Hi Alex ... I m sorry you see it that way, Alex. From my perspective, I m simply questioning the textual basis claimed by you as support for your views about
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 2, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Alex

      > Everything. You build strawmens and attack them. The noble8fold path
      > can be nicely done through Anapanasati (for example)
      >
      > And the teachings are 'come and see', not 'come and argue for 2,500
      > years obtuse points of philosophy.
      >

      I'm sorry you see it that way, Alex. From my perspective, I'm simply
      questioning the textual basis claimed by you as support for your views
      about the development of the path (such as in the passage that
      follows). I would not consider this "arguing points of philosophy"
      (abstruse or otherwise)!

      > After all, Buddha has taught stress and its cessation. In deeper
      > meditation levels there is less stress present AND as a culmination
      > of N8P it can serve as a springboard for total liberation and
      > N10fpath.
      >

      OK, I won't ask you for sutta passages this time. I'll just say that it
      doesn't sound like anything I've come across in my reading of the
      teachings ;-))

      >> Jhana is mentioned in many, many suttas. But to understand its
      >> role
      >> in the development of insight, it's necessary to consider exactly
      >> *what* is said about it (not just count up the number of suttas!!).
      >>
      >
      > As I've showed, the 'understanding' deals with 'letting go' and
      > letting go can be expressed not just in path attainments, but jhana
      > attainments as well.
      >
      > I could go on, but I should remember and consider the turtle parable
      > and stop the exchange.

      OK, if you'd like to stop the exchange, I'm happy to let you have the
      last word.

      Jon
    • Alex
      Hi Jon, ... Same could be said to you. ... I don t know if you are serious or joking in the above. Anyhow, what you could do is this: Prove that Stream Enterer
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 2, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Jon,

        > Jonothan Abbott <jonabbott@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Alex
        >
        > > Everything. You build strawmens and attack them. The noble8fold
        >path can be nicely done through Anapanasati (for example)
        > >
        > > And the teachings are 'come and see', not 'come and argue for
        >2,500 years obtuse points of philosophy.
        > >
        >
        > I'm sorry you see it that way, Alex.

        Same could be said to you.

        > From my perspective, I'm simply questioning the textual basis
        >claimed by you as support for your views about the development of
        >the path (such as in the passage that follows). I would not
        >consider this "arguing points of philosophy"
        > (abstruse or otherwise)!

        I don't know if you are serious or joking in the above.

        Anyhow, what you could do is this:

        Prove that Stream Enterer do not require samadhi-indriya at all.
        Prove that Stream Enterer do not require samma-samadhi at all.
        Prove that samadhi-indriya never contains Jhana.
        Prove to me that Buddha did NOT recomend or praise
        wholesome 'mundane' Jhana.
        Prove to me that non-Jhana path today is better than Jhana path.


        > > After all, Buddha has taught stress and its cessation. In deeper
        > > meditation levels there is less stress present AND as a
        >culmination of N8P it can serve as a springboard for total
        >liberation and N10fpath.




        > OK, I won't ask you for sutta passages this time. I'll just say
        that it
        > doesn't sound like anything I've come across in my reading of the
        > teachings ;-))

        Of course not. I am talking suttas, not Khan Sujinism.




        Best wishes,
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.