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Re: [dsg] Re: Kamma and Accumulations (wasRe: Mental states......

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  • upasaka@aol.com
    Hi, Connie (and Alex) - In a message dated 6/1/2008 9:00:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nichicon@hotmail.com writes: Howard: (snip) There s no requirement
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
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      Hi, Connie (and Alex) -

      In a message dated 6/1/2008 9:00:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      nichicon@... writes:

      Howard:
      (snip) There's no requirement anyone has the right to impose as to belief.
      ---------------------------------------------------

      c: Huh?


      ==============================
      Yeah, poorly expressed! LOL! What I should have written is "No one has
      the right to require of anyone the adoption of a particular belief." (Now read
      that and accept it as TRUTH, dammit!! LOLOL!)

      With metta,
      Howard




      /Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble
      in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a
      phantom, and a dream/

      (From the Diamond Sutra)




      **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
      Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
      (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


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    • colette
      Good Morning Connie, ... and ... humans, ... colette: You certainly have something here! You suggest that something is internal and becomes external. You
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
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        Good Morning Connie,


        > colette: I have always understood the potentials for the meanings
        and
        > implications of the word UNPROMPTED to clearly indicate Spontaneous
        > and spontaneity where there is no clear CAUSATION. People
        > spontaneously combust, burst into flames, and are consumed by the
        > flames, which is documented fact that there is no clear causation of
        > the fire and the death or birth.
        >
        > With spontaneous as a potential, THEN, we are left with the
        > conclusion that ignorance is part of the game and that we, as
        humans,
        > are not as smart as we think, as we delusion, we are. <....>
        > -----------------------------------
        >
        > >
        > > connie: for one, I think it has bearing on the strength of the
        > kamma created at that time, if that's how one says it. [obligatory
        > hallelujah!]

        colette: You certainly have something here!

        You suggest that something is internal and becomes external.

        You suggest that there is velocity, maybe force, built into
        the "intention".

        I theorize that a bullet leaves the barrel of a gun at a given speed
        and is projected outward from the interior of a gun to the exterior
        world. I theorize that a train travels on a track, a predetermined
        coarse or flight path. Bullets and trains travel in predetermined
        coarses or paths. We have the Bullet Train in Japan and the TGV in
        France, "Bullet Trains", and they travel on predetermined paths.

        A few summers ago I spent a month with some people downstate in
        ILlinois and I was overwhelmed by the lack of buildings obscuring my
        view -- it seriously brought back memories of my childhood growing up
        in suburbia and those fateful days when I was hitchiking across the
        U.S.A. two and a half times. In the course of my meditations I would
        concentrate on contrails being created by passing aircraft and people
        would question me as to what I was staring so intently at. My
        consistant reply, until they became conditioned by the same response,
        was that each single contrail has a begining and at that dot, that
        single dot, we know that it represents hundreds of individuals. Thus
        we can witness and understand that there is illusion within this
        reality we are confronted with every second. SIDE NOTE: in the
        WEstern American psychological programming of robots, the objective
        would be or is to blame some person or some thing as a causation for
        this illusionary quality that only we, as buddhists, cognize.

        <....>
        Now we're at the single thought having been projected outward into
        the real world from the unreal world of a person's mind. What is the
        constitution of the force which creates the velocity at which the
        thought travels outward in the real world?

        FREE WILL? Shades of the Ordo Templi Orientus, no?

        toodles,
        colette
      • colette
        Good Morning Group, As I pondered the post which I submitted in response to Connie s genius I came across the concept I ve used in/through the Kagyu of Dakinis
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
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          Good Morning Group,

          As I pondered the post which I submitted in response to Connie's
          genius I came across the concept I've used in/through the Kagyu of
          Dakinis "churning the nectar of the gods", which caused me to ponder:

          How much nectar can a single Dakini churn in any given time frame?

          In the fleeting seconds I pondered this I realized the equality of
          grain alcohols, Spiritus in Poland, Aqua Vitae in many European
          communities, White Lighting in the Irish immigrant areas of the South
          U.S.A. <...>

          The question of the amount of amrita a single dakini can churn raised
          the question of the equality between Grain Alcohol and Amrita. In my
          youth I studied Grain Alcohol and, through the experience of drinking
          the concoction, formulated my own personal theories on it. Grain
          Alcohol and Amrita are equal through the effects they manifest in the
          body i.e. intoxication or bliss.

          Lets take Harvard University and their actions toward the scientist
          Professor Timothy Leary, who, through the experimentation with LSD,
          found equalities between the effects of LSD, a hallucinegenic, and
          the RESULTANT CONSCIOUSNESS desired through the actions of THE
          TIBETAN BOOK OF THE DEAD.

          MEDITATION is key here and is the bliss that I am experiencing as I
          write this. In order for a single thought, as I spoke to Connie
          about, to have the force and velocity to effect change in the
          exterior world the bliss of that single thought must be tremendous.
          How can that thought maintain the velocity or force once it enters
          the real world of Einstein's or Newton's Physics?

          <...>
          Is it wrong for Harvard university to discharge Timothy Leary for
          experimenting with the effects of LSD and the equality between those
          effects and the objectivity of the Tibetan Book of the Dead, AND
          THEN, after removing the scientist, then, turn around and continue
          this professors exact same research?

          What sutta was that:

          "4. Be it in the village, or in the forest, whosoever steals what
          belongs to others, what is not given to him -- know him as an
          outcast."

          Now since there is very little tangible proof that I exist or have
          ever existed (it's a quality found in obtaining employment in the
          Intelligence Industry, where everything is "classified" and does not
          exist as long as the government keeps it hidden from the public or in
          lets say a Vatican Library, and they won't let you have documentation
          that does not exist, will they?)

          <...>
          Now it's time to reflect while I taste the nectar of the Aqua Vitae
          or is that Grain Alcohol.

          toodles,
          colette





          --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "colette" <ksheri3@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Good Morning Connie,
          <...>
        • colette
          Is an accumulation an aggregate or a store house ?
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
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            Is an "accumulation" an "aggregate" or a "store house"?




            --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "colette" <ksheri3@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Good Morning Group,
            >
            > As I pondered the post which I submitted in response to Connie's
            > genius I came across the concept I've used in/through the Kagyu of
            > Dakinis "churning the nectar of the gods", which caused me to
            ponder:
            >
            > How much nectar can a single Dakini churn in any given time frame?
            ><.....>
          • colette
            Is an accumulation an aggregate ? Is an accumulation a store house ? Is an accumulation a conglomerate ? Is an accumulation a conclusion ? How can
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
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              Is an "accumulation" an "aggregate"? Is an "accumulation" a "store
              house"? Is an "accumulation" a "conglomerate"? Is an "accumulation"
              a "conclusion"?

              How can Karma or Kamma fit into the above potentialities? For
              instance if the word "accumulation" means a "store house" and it
              refers to thoughts or thinking, then can't we rightfully admit the
              Alaya-Vinjana to the set of Consciousnesses?

              colette


              --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "colette" <ksheri3@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Good Morning Group,
              >
              > As I pondered the post which I submitted in response to Connie's
              > genius I came across the concept I've used in/through the Kagyu of
              > Dakinis "churning the nectar of the gods", which caused me to
              ponder:
              >
              > How much nectar can a single Dakini churn in any given time frame?
              <....>
            • connie
              colette: Good Morning Connie, connie: hey, girl. As a queen of Buddhist Legends once said:
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
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                colette: Good Morning Connie,

                connie: hey, girl.
                As a queen of Buddhist Legends once said: << The deeds of merit we have done must partake of the nature of sins if we have a sovereign over us. >>


                > colette: I have always understood the potentials for the meanings and implications of the word UNPROMPTED to clearly indicate Spontaneous and spontaneity where there is no clear CAUSATION. People spontaneously combust, burst into flames, and are consumed by the flames, which is documented fact that there is no clear causation of the fire and the death or birth.
                >

                connie:
                the all is aflame. birth is the leading cause of death.
                causation is spawntaneous.

                nothing esoteric about jhaana... not to say those examples you mentioned document that. i mean, there's accomplished and there's Accomplished. (charlie tuna: Ask any shaman you happen to see... )



                colette:
                > With spontaneous as a potential, THEN, we are left with the conclusion that ignorance is part of the game and that we, as humans, are not as smart as we think, as we delusion, we are. <....>
                >

                connie: well, duh! That's a prescription for V-8.




                > > connie: for one, I think it has bearing on the strength of the kamma created at that time, if that's how one says it. [obligatory hallelujah!]

                colette: You certainly have something here!

                connie:
                Not mine and I can't do it justice but i haven't found the quote again yet.


                colette: You suggest that something is internal and becomes external.

                connie:
                reckon i'd more likely suggest prompting could be either internal or external but yeah, intention would be internal before any external manifestations of it came about.


                colette: You suggest that there is velocity, maybe force, built into the "intention".

                connie:
                sure, "kammic force", but "velocity" brings up the matter of time's wrinkles and those are ironed out.



                colette: [...] we can witness and understand that there is illusion within this reality we are confronted with every second.

                connie: Just the maayaa nature of the beast, as the mahabhuta rupas have been described. For calming them, the illusion of interest is maa.na.


                colette: <....>
                Now we're at the single thought having been projected outward into the real world from the unreal world of a person's mind. What is the constitution of the force which creates the velocity at which the thought travels outward in the real world?

                FREE WILL? Shades of the Ordo Templi Orientus, no?

                connie:
                I don't know the Templi, but isn't Free Will a whale?
                how is the world of the mind any more unreal than the external world?
                the overwhelming constitution of the force is based on the three poison roots. which brings us back to what to the Queen said (above).

                peace,
                connie



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • upasaka@aol.com
                Hi, Connie - In a message dated 6/3/2008 12:23:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nichicon@hotmail.com writes: connie: the all is aflame. birth is the leading
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 3, 2008
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                  Hi, Connie -

                  In a message dated 6/3/2008 12:23:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                  nichicon@... writes:

                  connie:
                  the all is aflame. birth is the leading cause of death.
                  causation is spawntaneous.



                  ================================
                  LOLOL! I love it, Connie. Clever. :-)

                  With metta,
                  Howard


                  /Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble
                  in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a
                  phantom, and a dream/

                  (From the Diamond Sutra)




                  **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                  Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                  (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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