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Re: [dsg] doubts

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  • szmicio
    thanks Larry ... I think my sitting is OK. bye Lukas
    Message 1 of 44 , Apr 30, 2008
      thanks Larry

      > I think Nina or Sarah might be able to give you a better answer.
      >How is the meditation going?

      I think my sitting is OK.
      bye
      Lukas
    • sarahprocterabbott
      Hi James, Thank you for your comments. ... (The arahat s case is different - no more kusala, only kiriya cittas) ... .... S: Kiriya means inoperative . No
      Message 44 of 44 , Oct 11, 2013

        Hi James, 


        Thank you for your comments.

        >>S: 
        (The arahat's case is different - no more kusala, only kiriya cittas)

        >James: Okay, I am following you and agree, but I am hung up on the arahant's cittas not being wholesome, just "kiriya", whatever that means. 
        ....
        S: Kiriya means 'inoperative'. No more kusala which can lead to kamma patha for the arahat.
        ....
        >J:I know that an arahant doesn't generate further kamma 
        ....
        S: Exactly right.
        ....
        >J:..so I am wondering if "kusala" and "akusala" are simply kamma determinations in the Abhidhamma (rather than a judgement based on affected results).
        ....
        S: Yes, kusala and akusala (whomesome and unwholesome consciousness and mind-states) are part of the cycle of samsara. Kusala or akusala leads to kamma which then bring results. On behalf of those results (such as birth, seeing, hearing and so on), there is more kusala and akusala. These are the 3 'rounds' or vata, in Pali.
        ...
        >>S:Equanimity (tatramajjhattata) arises with all kusala cittas. It's a 'beautiful' factor. It's easy to confuse it with indifferent feeling, which may be what you're thinking of. Indifferent feeling (vedana) can arise with either kusala cittas or akusala cittas. The quality is different, dependent on whether it is kusala or akusala, but Indifferent feeling is not easily understood.
        ...
        >James: Yes, I follow you here. Except when you say indifferent feeling can be either kusala or akusala. What determines which it is going to be.
        ...
        S: It depends on the citta (consciousness) it arises with and the other associated mental factors. If these are kusala, the feeling is also kusala. If they are akusala, the feeling is akusala.

        For example, there may be a moment of staring at the wall with ignorance and (akusala) indifferent feeling. Or there might be a moment of reflecting wisely on dhammas now while we discuss with (kusala indifferent feeling.) No need to try and work out what kind of feeling it is now(and useless to do so), but it's just an indication of how we cannot tell or 'judge' the cittta by the feeling. The same applies to pleasant feeling - it usually arises with attachment and is therefore akusala also. However, it can arise with kusala cittas too, when there is metta, dana or wise reflection of Dhamma, for example.
        ...
        >S:Also at moments of seeing and hearing, for example, there is indifferent feeling. These kinds of cittas are neither kusala or akusala, but vipaka (result) cittas.
        ..
        >James: This seems a bit contradictory to what you said earlier.
        ...
        S: We've mentioned examples of kusala cittas, akusala cittas and kiriya cittas. Vipaka cittas are the results of kamma (referred to above when talking about the 3 rounds (vata). At moments of bodily experience, the accompanying feeling is always pleasant or unpleasant. However, at moments of seeing or hearing, the accompanying feeling is indifferent. 

        Feeling of one kind or another accompanies every citta.
        ...

        S:> This is getting rather technical.

        >James: That is okay; I appreciate the detail. But of course you know I am not like Phil or others who ask these things because they will readily accept the answers. I am interested but highly skeptical about the whole Abhidhamma teaching. Maybe it would be best if you don't waste your energy on me??
        ...
        S: I think you're asking very useful questions for us all to consider further. I appreciate the approach of questioning and further questioning. I think Phil has and does question a lot too. Anyone who really considers the Abhidhamma as relevant to life at this moment and the understanding of reality must question and consider carefully. So, thank you for your comments.

        Metta

        Sarah
        =====
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