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Re: [dsg] Perfections Corner (32) - one question

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  • Elaine
    Hi Connie, Thank you for providing us the excerpt from the book. ... The paragraph below mentions a we that seem to do something . Book: We need courage so
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 1, 2007
      Hi Connie,

      Thank you for providing us the excerpt from the book.
      -----
      The paragraph below mentions a "we" that seem to "do something".

      Book: "We need courage so that we are diligent and turn away immediately from akusala. If we are too slow in turning away from akusala, it will later on become more difficult or even too late to do so, as must have happened life after life."

      Elaine: How can there be a "we" to do anything if everything is conditioned? Courage does not arise because of a "we", it arises with the right conditions. So why is the book saying "we need courage so that we are diligent and turn away immediately from akusala"? How can the "we" force this turning slow or fast? Isn't it an irony that the book writer can use the word "we" but when any other person uses the word "we", it is immediately shot down and told there is "no self" and "no we" to do anything and that everything is conditioned.

      I agree with the writer, "we need courage so that we are diligent...".

      Sincerely,
      Elaine

      P/S: hmmm, I'm thinking the teacher is right, the students reading the book got it wrong.

      ------------------------

      L G SAGE <conniebpj@...> wrote:


      Dear All,

      This is the continuation of Chapter 7: The Perfection of Truthfulness, taken from the book "The Perfections Leading to Enlightenment" by Sujin Boriharnwanaket and translated by Nina van Gorkom.
      Questions, comments, or different opinions are welcome.
      ------------------------------

      The perfection of truthfulness should be developed together with pa~n~naa so that the noble Truths can be realized. We need courage so that we are diligent and turn away immediately from akusala. If we are too slow in turning away from akusala, it will later on become more difficult or even too late to do so, as must have happened life after life.
      We read in the Commentary to the "Itivuttaka", "As it was said", The Ones, Ch 1, §1, Lobha Sutta, which was quoted above:

      "Loyalty to the Buddha is loyalty with firm confidence. For a person with such confidence, be he monk, deity, maara or Brahma, it is impossible to steal. Someone who is steadfast in his loyalty would not give up his confidence in the Buddha or his teachings, even when in danger of life. Therefore, the Buddha said that a person with wisdom and gratefulness is a noble friend who is steadfast in loyalty."

      Loyalty to people other than the Buddha may be of different degrees and it may be limited: it may last long or it may last for only a moment. However, the loyalty of Buddhists towards the Buddha is forever, until the end of life. From the time of childhood until one has become an adult, one can from morning until night hear the chanting of texts recollecting the excellent qualities of the Triple Gem. This makes us realize the excellence of the Buddha's truthfulness in the development of the perfections so that he could penetrate the noble Truths and become a support beyond measure to living beings, to devas and mankind.

      ===to be continued,
      connie

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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    • L G SAGE
      Hi Elaine, What is it you re asking of me? No legitimate doctor would give you any of my body parts. I can offer and you re more than welcome to any of my
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 1, 2007
        Hi Elaine,

        What is it you're asking of me? No legitimate doctor would give you any of my body parts. I can offer and you're more than welcome to any of my answers/thoughts, but your immune system would still have to grapple with & stop rejecting them before they'd ever really become yours. Still, when a graft doesn't take, it's really nothing personal, is it?

        peace,
        connie

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Elaine
        Hi Connie, Opps! I actually wanted to pose the questions to other DSG members. It wasn t intended like a personal attack to you. I m sorry if that e-m has
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 1, 2007
          Hi Connie,

          Opps! I actually wanted to pose the questions to other DSG members. It wasn't intended like a personal attack to you. I'm sorry if that e-m has offended you in any way. (((HUGS))). I'll post the question in another thread.

          Please continue with the Perfections Corner posts. Looking forward to reading them. :-))

          Sincerely,
          Elaine

          ------------------

          L G SAGE <conniebpj@...> wrote:
          Hi Elaine,

          What is it you're asking of me? No legitimate doctor would give you any of my body parts. I can offer and you're more than welcome to any of my answers/thoughts, but your immune system would still have to grapple with & stop rejecting them before they'd ever really become yours. Still, when a graft doesn't take, it's really nothing personal, is it?

          peace,
          connie

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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        • L G SAGE
          Thanks, Elaine, No apology needed. I didn t take your post as an attack on anyone. I just thought you sounded a bit sarcastic, which seems to me to be a
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 1, 2007
            Thanks, Elaine,
            No apology needed. I didn't take your post as an attack on anyone. I just thought you sounded a bit sarcastic, which seems to me to be a pretty common way of expressing frustration or lack of patience or wishing things were somehow different, etc. -- kind of a little temper tantrum, isn't it! Yikes.
            My apologies if I misread you. In any case, I guess we're all just doing the best we can... all according to conditions, of course... and have to let it go at that, eh?
            best wishes,
            connie



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          • Nina van Gorkom
            Dear Connie, Phil, Elaine, ... N: the word we need not cause problems. We keep in mind the Anatta lakkhanasutta. There are kusala citta and cetasikas
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 2, 2007
              Dear Connie, Phil, Elaine,
              Op 1-nov-2007, om 13:23 heeft L G SAGE het volgende geschreven:

              > The perfection of truthfulness should be developed together with
              > pa~n~naa so that the noble Truths can be realized. We need courage
              > so that we are diligent and turn away immediately from akusala. If
              > we are too slow in turning away from akusala, it will later on
              > become more difficult or even too late to do so, as must have
              > happened life after life.
              -------
              N: the word 'we' need not cause problems. We keep in mind the Anatta
              lakkhanasutta. There are kusala citta and cetasikas performing their
              functions. We need the whole of the teachings, including Abhidhamma,
              for the correct understanding of the teachings. Shame and fear of
              blame, hiri and ottappa, see the danger of akusala. If there are no
              hiri and otappa there cannot be any turning away.
              We need truthfulness, so that we do not mislead ourselves, taking for
              kusala what is lobha. Sati is non-forgetful of kusala and pa~n~naa
              knows the true characteristic of kusala and of akusala, it knows them
              as non-self.
              Nina.



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