Re: [dsg] Re: satipatthana as island of refuge
- Hi, Swee Boon -
In a message dated 9/1/07 12:03:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nidive@...
> Hi Howard,=====================
> >Howard: It is wholesome thinking. (And thinking is real enough.)
> There can't be anything that is 'wholesome' or 'unwholesome' with
> just thinking without the theme of thinking. There is only just
> thinking that goes no where.
> Swee Boon
My answer was in response to your question "what is skillful
resolves?" My point was that it is a type of thinking. Thinking is an actual mental
operation. It is no less real than hardness, for example. It is irrelevant what
the thinking is "about". I'm saying that the activity of thinking is not mere
/Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble
in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a
phantom, and a dream./ (From the Diamond Sutra)
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- Hi Jon, -
I am glad you are back.
Jon: Now that I'm back in the 'real world', I'd like to withdraw my
previous remark about the sutta dealing with the question of whether
the Tathaagata can be said to exist or not.
T: It is fine with me that we drop the existence question.
But how can you be so sure that you are back to the real world? The
ultimate world of the ariyans is separated with no real boundary from
the imaginary world of concepts (including "humans").
Jon: See for example SN 22:85 quoted by Sarah recently (post #76173),
where Sariputta summarises the understanding of Yamaka, who correctly
understood the 5 khandhas, as: "the Tathaagata is not apprehended by
you as real and actual in this very life".
In other words, and enlightened being does not take people as
being "real and actual".
T: While you were away Sarah's post and SN 22.85 were discussed along
with other posts by Nina, Scott, KenH, Han, James, Tep, etc. You are
right that the Buddha and the Arahants see the dhammas (khandhas,
dhatus, ..) with 'yathabhuta-dassana' with no self views(attanuditthi
Jon: The existence of the Tathaagatha as a historical fact is not in
question. Existence in the ultimate sense is the issue.
T: Historical fact in the imaginary world of concepts-- is that what
you mean ? However, everyone agrees that there are only ultimate
realities in the ultimate world of dhammas.
But the existence issue had been "dragged on" for too long while you
were not around. But there is no agreement yet. People are tough !