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Re: [dsg] Re: satipatthana as island of refuge

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  • upasaka@aol.com
    Hi, Swee Boon - In a message dated 9/1/07 12:03:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nidive@yahoo.com ... ===================== My answer was in response to your
    Message 1 of 396 , Sep 1, 2007
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      Hi, Swee Boon -

      In a message dated 9/1/07 12:03:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nidive@...
      writes:

      > Hi Howard,
      >
      > >Howard: It is wholesome thinking. (And thinking is real enough.)
      >
      > There can't be anything that is 'wholesome' or 'unwholesome' with
      > just thinking without the theme of thinking. There is only just
      > thinking that goes no where.
      >
      > Swee Boon
      >
      =====================
      My answer was in response to your question "what is skillful
      resolves?" My point was that it is a type of thinking. Thinking is an actual mental
      operation. It is no less real than hardness, for example. It is irrelevant what
      the thinking is "about". I'm saying that the activity of thinking is not mere
      concept itself.

      With metta,
      Howard

      /Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble
      in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a
      phantom, and a dream./            (From the Diamond Sutra)



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    • Tep Sastri
      Hi Jon, - I am glad you are back. Jon: Now that I m back in the real world , I d like to withdraw my previous remark about the sutta dealing with the question
      Message 396 of 396 , Sep 20, 2007
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        Hi Jon, -

        I am glad you are back.

        Jon: Now that I'm back in the 'real world', I'd like to withdraw my
        previous remark about the sutta dealing with the question of whether
        the Tathaagata can be said to exist or not.

        T: It is fine with me that we drop the existence question.
        But how can you be so sure that you are back to the real world? The
        ultimate world of the ariyans is separated with no real boundary from
        the imaginary world of concepts (including "humans").
        ..........

        Jon: See for example SN 22:85 quoted by Sarah recently (post #76173),
        where Sariputta summarises the understanding of Yamaka, who correctly
        understood the 5 khandhas, as: "the Tathaagata is not apprehended by
        you as real and actual in this very life".

        In other words, and enlightened being does not take people as
        being "real and actual".

        T: While you were away Sarah's post and SN 22.85 were discussed along
        with other posts by Nina, Scott, KenH, Han, James, Tep, etc. You are
        right that the Buddha and the Arahants see the dhammas (khandhas,
        dhatus, ..) with 'yathabhuta-dassana' with no self views(attanuditthi
        and mana).
        ...........

        Jon: The existence of the Tathaagatha as a historical fact is not in
        question. Existence in the ultimate sense is the issue.

        T: Historical fact in the imaginary world of concepts-- is that what
        you mean ? However, everyone agrees that there are only ultimate
        realities in the ultimate world of dhammas.

        But the existence issue had been "dragged on" for too long while you
        were not around. But there is no agreement yet. People are tough !


        Tep
        ===
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