Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [dsg] Knowing Vedana

Expand Messages
  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Tep, ... N: The goal of samatha is the elimination of attachment, and the goal of vipassana is the eradication of ignorance. The quote of the Patis.given
    Message 1 of 54 , Sep 1, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Tep,
      Op 1-sep-2007, om 16:27 heeft Tep Sastri het volgende geschreven:

      > In the case of an agreeable object he is intent upon it as foul, or
      > he connects it with impermanence. That is how he abides perceiving
      > the repulsive in the unrepulsive."
      >
      > The first is samatha (kayagata-sati), and the second is vipassana.
      ------
      N: The goal of samatha is the elimination of attachment, and the goal
      of vipassana is the eradication of ignorance. The quote of the
      Patis.given above illustrates this.

      I saw the translation 'principles' in the Patisambhidamagga , but
      dhaatus, elements is meant.

      As to: Why seeing pain in happiness ? Instead of pain I would prefer
      dukkha untranslated. The falling away of dhammas is their dukkha-
      ness. When one has realized the noble truth of dukkha, one has
      directly understood that also happy feeling is dukkha.
      T: Or, by seeing a person as dhatus, not as a person, we
      can transcend upadana in the aggregates and avoid aversion. This is
      an excellent example of how a wise meditator sees the conventional
      truth and ultimate truth as co-existing with no conflict. S/he simply
      switches the perception from one domain to another whenever it is
      advantageous to transcend a wrong view.
      -------
      N: I could add: there is no one who switches, but it all happens when
      there are the right conditions for it. Listening, understanding what
      elements are, understanding that elements arise right now. Indeed, we
      are not intent on satipatthana all the time, we frequently think of
      persons. But we have also learnt and discussed on the fact that what
      we take for a person are impermanent elements.

      Quote from the Elephant's Footprint I wrote about in 'Asoka":
      < We read that S�riputta said to the monks:

      �Your reverences, if others abuse, revile, annoy, vex this monk, he
      comprehends: �This painful feeling that has arisen in me is born of
      ear-contact, it has a cause, not no cause. What is the cause? Ear-
      contact is the cause.� He sees that ear-contact is impermanent, he
      sees that feeling... perception... the habitual tendencies are
      impermanent, he sees that consciousness is impermanent. His mind
      rejoices, is pleased, composed and is set on the objects of the
      element....�

      The monk who is even-minded when he is vexed by others has developed
      satipa��h�na to the degree that he realizes �kammassakata ���a�. He
      does not think about other people who annoy him and about the
      unpleasant object he hears, he realizes directly vip�ka which is
      conditioned by kamma. At that moment there is no world, no other
      people, no self. >

      As you say, no conflict between the two kinds of worlds.
      Understanding of paramattha dhammas greatly helps us in our social
      life in the conventional world.
      Nina.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • han tun
      Dear Nina, Thank you very much for your kind explanation. (1) You said: “You first summarized: This wrong view will be lessened with the development of
      Message 54 of 54 , Sep 4, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Nina,

        Thank you very much for your kind explanation.

        (1) You said: “You first summarized: This wrong view
        will be lessened with the development of pa~n~naa. You
        felt at ease with this. And it is correct.” I am happy
        to know that I have summarized your previous post
        correctly.

        (2) You said: “As you said before: you are so used to
        the idea that you have to try and so when you hear the
        opposite it may be confusing to you.” It is true that
        I have all along been used to “trying”, but in this
        case, I did not say I will try. I just said the wrong
        view will be lessened with the development of
        pa~n~naa.

        (3) You said: “But then I spoke about the eradication
        of wrong view by the sotapanna. He/she did not try to
        be aware of it or try to eradicate it.” To be frank, I
        am not worried about what a sotapanna does. I am far,
        far, away from becoming a sotapanna. I just want to
        know a workable solution applicable to an ordinary
        puthujjana.

        (4) You said: “As you will agree, we cannot direct
        awareness to be aware of wrong view or of any reality.
        When wrong view arises and we understand more about
        it, it can be object of awareness.” I did not say
        anything about directing awareness to be aware of
        wrong view or of any reality. I just said that the
        wrong view will be lessened with the development of
        pa~n~naa. For that matter, not only wrong view, but
        other kilesas will also be lessened with the
        development of pa~n~naa.

        (5) You said: “Understanding of whatever reality
        appears can be developed. It helps to let come what
        comes and not think too much about the future.” I
        never think about future. I have said that I am not
        result-oriented. I have no expectations. I do what I
        think is correct to do. The result is beyond my
        control.

        N: I hope I have straightened out a few things?
        H: Yes, all things have been straightened out.
        I now know what to do. Thank you very much.

        Respectfully,
        Han

        --- Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
        > Dear Han,
        > I am sorry to have confused you.




        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
        http://sims.yahoo.com/
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.