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Re: [dsg] Atta views: suffering and/or happiness

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  • Herman Hofman
    Hi Larry, ... You wrote: I is a concept in search of an experience. Is that what you said? My reply meant to clarify that it is not an I that in is in search
    Message 1 of 91 , May 1, 2007
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      Hi Larry,

      On 01/05/07, LBIDD@... <LBIDD@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > H: " "I" in this case being consciousness (vinnana), in search of an
      > object (namarupa)"
      >
      > L: If "I" is consciousness how can consciousness be anatta?
      >

      You wrote:"I" is a concept in search of an experience. Is that what you said?

      My reply meant to clarify that it is not an I that in is in search of
      an experience, it it is consciousness in search of an experience.

      The dependent origination in DN 15 starts with a mutual dependency
      between consciousness and name-and-form, they both depend on each
      other. There is no consciousness without name-and-form, and vice
      versa. Consciousness "itself" is nothing.


      Herman
    • sarah abbott
      Hi Herman, ... me. ... ... S: It s a good comment. It s just a manner of expression. It means, as I tried to suggest, that rather than wishing for this or that
      Message 91 of 91 , Jun 20, 2007
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        Hi Herman,

        Back to your post #72143:
        --- Herman Hofman <hhofmeister@...> wrote:

        > > S: I may be speaking out of turn, but isn't it a problem only because
        > we
        > > have the idea that 'we' have to practice instead of just learning to
        > > understand the various dhammas 'as they are' when they appear? In the
        > > Cariyapitaka, the bodhisatta says 'Whatever comes, let it come.' I
        > like
        > > this expression. If it's attachment, 'let it come'. If it's anger,
        > 'let it
        > > come'! The point is that there is no choice in the matter. Dhammas
        > are
        > > conditioned and anatta. However satipatthana can develop and know
        > > 'whatever comes' for what it is.
        ....
        >H: Thank you for your comments on the biscuit eating. It made sense to
        me.
        >
        > One issue with the above, though :-)
        >
        > I agree that dhammas are conditioned and anatta. That is why a
        > statement like "Whatever comes, let it come" is a very strange one to
        > make. Because it actually implies that there is a something or a
        > someone other than conditions that is capable of "letting" ?!?
        ...
        S: It's a good comment. It's just a manner of expression. It means, as I
        tried to suggest, that rather than wishing for this or that state or
        dhamma and being averse to some other dhamma coming, there can be a
        development of contentment and detachment towards whatever arises. As I
        said, there's no choice in the matter anyway, so what's the use in just
        developing more attachment and more disappointment when it's not the
        preferred state? As you suggest, in an ultimate sense, no thing or person
        capable of any 'letting'. Sometimes we read about sati 'following' dhammas
        which appear. It also has the sense of not being able to control, but
        being aware of what has been condition to arise already.
        ...
        >As you
        > say, there is no choice in the matter as to what comes next. Whether
        > it is resistance or attachment, there isn't anyone resisting or
        > attached.
        ....
        S: Exactly! Wow, really on the same page on this one, Herman:-)

        Metta,

        Sarah
        ========
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