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Re: [DhammaStudyGroup] English discussions at DSSFB

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  • Bongkojpriya (Betty) Yugala
    Hello, Robert, Looking forward very much to meeting you when you come to the Center. Have thoroughly enjoyed reading your e-mails since they are usually so
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 26 9:15 AM
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      Hello, Robert,
      Looking forward very much to meeting you when you come to the Center. Have
      thoroughly enjoyed reading your e-mails since they are usually so full of
      panna and inspiration.

      Will meet you at the Center on Thursday, Aug. 31, but should you need any
      help in getting around, please give me a call at: 579-1050.

      With metta,
      Betty Yugala

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: amara chay <joychay@...>
      To: <dhammastudygroup@egroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 10:43 PM
      Subject: [DhammaStudyGroup] English discussions at DSSFB


      >
      > Dear DSSFB Group,
      >
      > Tan Achaan has arranged to have the discussion on Thursday August 31 from
      > 2-5 and another on Saturday at the same time in order that
      > Robert might join us. The session at Khunying Noparatana's house
      > has been postponed because she will be in Europe that first week of the
      > month and the all day session has been moved to the 9th. Robert if you
      > leave late on the 9th you could still perhaps join the
      > morning session, it starts at 9 am. and ends at 3 pm.
      >
      > As usual please check for changes here or with Ivan and Ell,
      >
      > Amara
      > ________________________________________________________________________
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    • Robert Kirkpatrick
      Dear Amara, Betty, Shin, Ivan, ell and other friends, Thanks for the message and please thank Acharn Sujin for arranging the sessions on Thursday and saturday.
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 26 2:51 PM
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        Dear Amara, Betty, Shin, Ivan, ell and other friends,
        Thanks for the message and please thank Acharn Sujin
        for arranging the sessions on Thursday and saturday.
        Wonderful. I will be with two of my children ( we will
        probably leave on the 9th of september) - they want me
        to take them to the beach for a couple of days so I
        might go down to pattaya/jomtien for one or two
        nights. For the rest of the time I intend to be in
        Bangkok and hope to meet with group members as often
        as possible. So if anyone is free let's arrange lunch
        and dinner dates (and if anyone sees khun chuteemun
        and others invite them along). Looking forward very
        much to seeing you all next thursday.
        Robert
        --- "Bongkojpriya (Betty) Yugala"
        <beyugala@...> wrote:
        > Hello, Robert,
        > Looking forward very much to meeting you when you
        > come to the Center. Have
        > thoroughly enjoyed reading your e-mails since they
        > are usually so full of
        > panna and inspiration.
        >
        > Will meet you at the Center on Thursday, Aug. 31,
        > but should you need any
        > help in getting around, please give me a call at:
        > 579-1050.
        >
        > With metta,
        > Betty Yugala
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: amara chay <joychay@...>
        > To: <dhammastudygroup@egroups.com>
        > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 10:43 PM
        > Subject: [DhammaStudyGroup] English discussions at
        > DSSFB
        >
        >
        > >
        > > Dear DSSFB Group,
        > >
        > > Tan Achaan has arranged to have the discussion on
        > Thursday August 31 from
        > > 2-5 and another on Saturday at the same time in
        > order that
        > > Robert might join us. The session at Khunying
        > Noparatana's house
        > > has been postponed because she will be in Europe
        > that first week of the
        > > month and the all day session has been moved to
        > the 9th. Robert if you
        > > leave late on the 9th you could still perhaps join
        > the
        > > morning session, it starts at 9 am. and ends at 3
        > pm.
        > >
        > > As usual please check for changes here or with
        > Ivan and Ell,
        > >
        > > Amara
        > >
        >
        ________________________________________________________________________
        > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
        > http://www.hotmail.com
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        > >
        > >
        > > To Post a message, send it to:
        > dhammastudygroup@...
        > >
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > dhammastudygroup-unsubscribe@...
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
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      • shinlin
        Dear Robert, I would like to inform you that Kwan has arranged the apartment for you and the kids. Therefore you can use the apartment when you arrived to BKK.
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 27 10:12 PM
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          Dear Robert,
          I would like to inform you that Kwan has arranged the apartment for you
          and the kids. Therefore you can use the apartment when you arrived to BKK.
          Just get the key from the desk counter. We will inform them. See you then.
          with regards,
          Shin
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Robert Kirkpatrick <robertkirkpatrick@...>
          To: <dhammastudygroup@egroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 4:51 AM
          Subject: Re: [DhammaStudyGroup] English discussions at DSSFB


          | Dear Amara, Betty, Shin, Ivan, ell and other friends,
          | Thanks for the message and please thank Acharn Sujin
          | for arranging the sessions on Thursday and saturday.
          | Wonderful. I will be with two of my children ( we will
          | probably leave on the 9th of september) - they want me
          | to take them to the beach for a couple of days so I
          | might go down to pattaya/jomtien for one or two
          | nights. For the rest of the time I intend to be in
          | Bangkok and hope to meet with group members as often
          | as possible. So if anyone is free let's arrange lunch
          | and dinner dates (and if anyone sees khun chuteemun
          | and others invite them along). Looking forward very
          | much to seeing you all next thursday.
          | Robert
          | --- "Bongkojpriya (Betty) Yugala"
          | <beyugala@...> wrote:
          | > Hello, Robert,
          | > Looking forward very much to meeting you when you
          | > come to the Center. Have
          | > thoroughly enjoyed reading your e-mails since they
          | > are usually so full of
          | > panna and inspiration.
          | >
          | > Will meet you at the Center on Thursday, Aug. 31,
          | > but should you need any
          | > help in getting around, please give me a call at:
          | > 579-1050.
          | >
          | > With metta,
          | > Betty Yugala
          | >
          | > ----- Original Message -----
          | > From: amara chay <joychay@...>
          | > To: <dhammastudygroup@egroups.com>
          | > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 10:43 PM
          | > Subject: [DhammaStudyGroup] English discussions at
          | > DSSFB
          | >
          | >
          | > >
          | > > Dear DSSFB Group,
          | > >
          | > > Tan Achaan has arranged to have the discussion on
          | > Thursday August 31 from
          | > > 2-5 and another on Saturday at the same time in
          | > order that
          | > > Robert might join us. The session at Khunying
          | > Noparatana's house
          | > > has been postponed because she will be in Europe
          | > that first week of the
          | > > month and the all day session has been moved to
          | > the 9th. Robert if you
          | > > leave late on the 9th you could still perhaps join
          | > the
          | > > morning session, it starts at 9 am. and ends at 3
          | > pm.
          | > >
          | > > As usual please check for changes here or with
          | > Ivan and Ell,
          | > >
          | > > Amara
          | > >
          | >
          | ________________________________________________________________________
          | > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
          | > http://www.hotmail.com
          | > >
          | > >
          | > >
          | > > To Post a message, send it to:
          | > dhammastudygroup@...
          | > >
          | > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          | > dhammastudygroup-unsubscribe@...
          | > >
          | > >
          | >
          | >
          | > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
          | > -------------------------~-~>
          | > Free @Backup service! Click here for your free
          | > trial of @Backup.
          | > @Backup is the most convenient way to securely
          | > protect and access
          | > your files online. Try it now and receive 300
          | > MyPoints.
          | >
          | http://click.egroups.com/1/6348/10/_/252904/_/967306401/
          | >
          | ---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
          | >
          | > To Post a message, send it to:
          | > dhammastudygroup@...
          | >
          | > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          | > dhammastudygroup-unsubscribe@...
          | >
          |
          |
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          | http://mail.yahoo.com/
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          |
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          |
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          dhammastudygroup-unsubscribe@...
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        • Sarah Procter Abbott
          Dear Robert & friends in Bkk, Hope you have some great discussions together. Pls give our regards to K.Sujin and other friends. Sarah
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 30 2:11 PM
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            Dear Robert & friends in Bkk,

            Hope you have some great discussions together. Pls give our regards to
            K.Sujin and other friends.

            Sarah



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          • Robert Kirkpatrick
            Dear group, Thanks to everyone for the Dhamma discussion yesterday. Acharn Sujin spoke about some details of the abhidhamma to do with hetu - the roots. It
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 31 7:38 PM
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              Dear group,
              Thanks to everyone for the Dhamma discussion yesterday. Acharn Sujin spoke about some details of the abhidhamma to do with hetu - the roots. It seems theorteical but knowing these details helps us to see them (they are happening now),and their functions and the conditions for them, and so break down the idea of a whole.

              Betty, it was nice to meet you. It is reallly good when some one comes along who can quickly undertsand the heart of the matter. Accepting the uncontrollabilty of all dhammas is the core of Buddhsim (and then seeing this more and more) but not so many can see this.

              It was really nice to hear Ivan - at the meeting and later when we had dinner-speaking about some of the more difficult details of Abhidhamma. HE usually says it is not importasnt to know these details but by conditions even he is learning them. It is all so anatta: Ivan doesn't particularly want to learn, but he does - others try so hard (but with lobha)and yet miss the whole point.

              I talked with shin and Kwan on the way home about making plans. Khun shin wondered if making plans showed lack of understanding. But we can make plans and at the same time have awareness of dhammas. Trying to stop making plans may be an indication that one thinks they can control dhammas- one wants to try to stay in the present moment , but without wisdom. However, if we understand Dhamma more we will have less attachmment to our plans as we know that the conditions for events to arise are so complex. I think in the beginning we tend to think that we have to become different from what we were before we studied Buddhism. That we have to make special conditions before undersatnding arises. LaTER we see that understanding is not dependent on living a special lifestyle and so we just live life entirely naturally - as our accumulations lead us. But at the same time we listen and consider and test Dhamma.

              I will make copies of the tapes and send to Sarah and jonothon. Today I go to the postoffice to send copies of realituies and concepts to addresses in Sri lanka - Bhikkhu Bodhi requested over 100 copies- and also Burma and England and Singapore.

              The new center is really nice. having the Buddhas relics there (presented by the supreme patriarch)gives it a special importance. And I much prefer this than the usual Buddha image. Budha images only came into use several hundred years after the Buddha's parinibbna.

              We have another meeting tommorow which I am realy looking forword to.

              Robert



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            • Robert Kirkpatrick
              Dear Sarah, we stopped in sydney on wednesday on the way up to Bangkok. If I had known you and Jon were there we would have stayed a night. Anyway thanks for
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 2, 2000
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                Dear Sarah,

                we stopped in sydney on wednesday on the way up to Bangkok. If I had known you and Jon were there we would have stayed a night. Anyway thanks for the comments. We had a superb talk today. Acharn expalined more about the functions of citta and there were so many other points and topics with many lively bits. Ivan is commenting and explaining Abhidhamma more and more  and shin gave us some interesting areas where everyone discussed more about the uncontrollabilty of every moment.

                Amara asked some questions which led to Acharn taking about the different kammas that condition patisandhi citta . She explained that in life other kammas also give results. Some good stuff- you must listen to the tapes.

                Robert

                  Sarah Procter Abbott <sarahhk@...> wrote:




                Dear Robert, Shin & friends,

                This is an interesting point. Many of us have the idea that in order to
                study dhamma, our lifestyle should be different, our accumulations should be
                different and that being aware at the present moment means less thinking &
                less planning.  As Robert says, this all shows the strong clinging to the
                idea of self and the idea of control. It also shows the attachment to having
                present dhammas changed to other dhammas instead of being aware and
                understanding these realities as conditioned at the present moment.

                The aim is therefore not to change, but to understand these conditioned
                realities.'Live life entirely naturally' while developing undestanding means
                life should be easier, not harder!

                Right now, we're in Sydney between the surf at Bondi and a yoga class,
                following our inclinations but not forgetting that realities are appearing
                and can be known. Jonothan's en route to a home visit in Adelaide and I'll
                be going straight back to work in Hong Kong. Lots of thinking and planning.
                Sometimes we get lost in the world of concepts but sometimes there is
                awareness of thinking as a nama different from the concepts the thinking
                thinks about.

                Thanks Robert for the update on yr visit. Keep posting! Enjoy the rest of
                the stay and we look f/w to hearing the discussions on tape.

                best wishes, Sarah


                >I talked with shin and Kwan on the way home about making plans. Khun shin
                wondered if making plans showed lack of understanding. But we can make plans
                and at the same time have awareness of dhammas. Trying to stop making plans
                may be an indication that one thinks they can control dhammas- one wants to
                try to stay in the present moment , but without wisdom. However, if we
                understand Dhamma more we will have less attachmment to our plans as we know
                that the conditions for events to arise are so complex. I think in the
                beginning we tend to think that we have to become different from what we
                were before we studied Buddhism. That we have to make special conditions
                before undersatnding arises. LaTER we see that understanding is not
                dependent on living a special lifestyle and so we just live life entirely
                naturally - as our accumulations lead us. But at the same time we listen and
                consider and test Dhamma.
                >
                >
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              • Sarah Procter Abbott
                Dear Robert, Shin & friends, This is an interesting point. Many of us have the idea that in order to study dhamma, our lifestyle should be different, our
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 2, 2000
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                  Dear Robert, Shin & friends,

                  This is an interesting point. Many of us have the idea that in order to
                  study dhamma, our lifestyle should be different, our accumulations should be
                  different and that being aware at the present moment means less thinking &
                  less planning. As Robert says, this all shows the strong clinging to the
                  idea of self and the idea of control. It also shows the attachment to having
                  present dhammas changed to other dhammas instead of being aware and
                  understanding these realities as conditioned at the present moment.

                  The aim is therefore not to change, but to understand these conditioned
                  realities.'Live life entirely naturally' while developing undestanding means
                  life should be easier, not harder!

                  Right now, we're in Sydney between the surf at Bondi and a yoga class,
                  following our inclinations but not forgetting that realities are appearing
                  and can be known. Jonothan's en route to a home visit in Adelaide and I'll
                  be going straight back to work in Hong Kong. Lots of thinking and planning.
                  Sometimes we get lost in the world of concepts but sometimes there is
                  awareness of thinking as a nama different from the concepts the thinking
                  thinks about.

                  Thanks Robert for the update on yr visit. Keep posting! Enjoy the rest of
                  the stay and we look f/w to hearing the discussions on tape.

                  best wishes, Sarah


                  >I talked with shin and Kwan on the way home about making plans. Khun shin
                  wondered if making plans showed lack of understanding. But we can make plans
                  and at the same time have awareness of dhammas. Trying to stop making plans
                  may be an indication that one thinks they can control dhammas- one wants to
                  try to stay in the present moment , but without wisdom. However, if we
                  understand Dhamma more we will have less attachmment to our plans as we know
                  that the conditions for events to arise are so complex. I think in the
                  beginning we tend to think that we have to become different from what we
                  were before we studied Buddhism. That we have to make special conditions
                  before undersatnding arises. LaTER we see that understanding is not
                  dependent on living a special lifestyle and so we just live life entirely
                  naturally - as our accumulations lead us. But at the same time we listen and
                  consider and test Dhamma.
                  >
                  >
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                • amara chay
                  ... conditioned ... undestanding means ... class, ... appearing ... and I ll ... planning. ... is ... thinking ... Great points, Sarah, I would like to add
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 2, 2000
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                    > The aim is therefore not to change, but to understand these
                    conditioned
                    > realities.'Live life entirely naturally' while developing
                    undestanding means
                    > life should be easier, not harder!
                    >
                    > Right now, we're in Sydney between the surf at Bondi and a yoga
                    class,
                    > following our inclinations but not forgetting that realities are
                    appearing
                    > and can be known. Jonothan's en route to a home visit in Adelaide
                    and I'll
                    > be going straight back to work in Hong Kong. Lots of thinking and
                    planning.
                    > Sometimes we get lost in the world of concepts but sometimes there
                    is
                    > awareness of thinking as a nama different from the concepts the
                    thinking
                    > thinks about.


                    Great points, Sarah, I would like to add that one does not really
                    have a choice in the matter. We might think we can choose whether to
                    change or not, in fact it is our accumulations and vipaka that make
                    the choice, and in the end there is no self who makes the dicisions
                    anyway. I hope you enjoy the tapes Robert is sending you and to hear
                    from you often from Hong Kong.

                    By the way I have some bad news, the great lady who transcribes Khun
                    Sujin's Thai tapes for us has had a slight stroke (she's well over
                    eighty) and temporarily lost the use of her right hand, although when
                    we visited her last evening she was looking well and as cheery as
                    ever, remembering more abhidhamma than most of us (except for Khun
                    Sujin and maybe one other person in the room). She has also
                    recovered the use of her hand, although during her illness she was so
                    worried that she dreamt that she was able to write again and was
                    doing transcriptions for us especially, of a recent passage from the
                    Rayong trip!

                    Amara
                  • Sarah Procter Abbott
                    ... yes, it would have been good to see you & the kids here! I just finished my summer teaching and we came here in haste, pretty zonked out. Well recovered
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 3, 2000
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                      >Robert,

                      yes, it would have been good to see you & the kids here! I just finished my
                      summer teaching and we came here in haste, pretty zonked out. Well recovered
                      now! Sounds like the English discussions are going well in Bkk- reminds me
                      of the old days when I first went to Bkk and there were great regular
                      English discussions at Wat Bovan.

                      Sounds like some really varied discussion topics too, but in the end
                      wherever the topic starts it ends up with realities which can be known now.
                      it's so helpful to approach from different directions in order to understand
                      more about the anattaness of these realities.

                      Hope the kids are having a good time too!

                      We'll be seeing you in Cambodia for sure and we'll be in Bkk for a couple of
                      days before and after...
                      Sarah
                      >
                      > Dear Sarah,
                      >
                      >we stopped in sydney on wednesday on the way up to Bangkok. If I had known
                      >you and Jon were there we would have stayed a night. Anyway thanks for the
                      >comments. We had a superb talk today. Acharn expalined more about the
                      >functions of citta and there were so many other points and topics with many
                      >lively bits. Ivan is commenting and explaining Abhidhamma more and more
                      >and shin gave us some interesting areas where everyone discussed more about
                      >the uncontrollabilty of every moment.
                      >
                      >Amara asked some questions which led to Acharn taking about the different
                      >kammas that condition patisandhi citta . She explained that in life other
                      >kammas also give results. Some good stuff- you must listen to the tapes.
                      >
                      >Robert
                      >
                      >
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                    • shinlin
                      Dear Friends, You would not believe this. BUT during the last two dhamma talks, I have realized how much of wanting to control has been accumulated in me and
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 5, 2000
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                        Dear Friends,
                            You would not believe this. BUT during the last two dhamma talks, I have realized how much of "wanting to control" has been accumulated in me and yet it was so hard to realized it on our own. Without dhamma friends and dhamma talks, probably I would have completely be on the wrong path with  a wrong views that I am trying to get rid of self. " A self trying to get rid of SELF ". Studying dhamma with a right understanding can not be done only. Thanks a Aeon to Archan Sujin, K. Amara, K. Ivan, M. Betty, K. Robert, K.Lan, K. Elle, and the people who came to the English Dhamma Talks. Thankyou for your help and guidance.
                        with metta,
                        Shin
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 7:11 PM
                        Subject: Re: [DhammaStudyGroup] English discussions at DSSFB


                        Dear Sarah,

                        we stopped in sydney on wednesday on the way up to Bangkok. If I had known you and Jon were there we would have stayed a night. Anyway thanks for the comments. We had a superb talk today. Acharn expalined more about the functions of citta and there were so many other points and topics with many lively bits. Ivan is commenting and explaining Abhidhamma more and more  and shin gave us some interesting areas where everyone discussed more about the uncontrollabilty of every moment.

                        Amara asked some questions which led to Acharn taking about the different kammas that condition patisandhi citta . She explained that in life other kammas also give results. Some good stuff- you must listen to the tapes.

                        Robert

                          Sarah Procter Abbott <sarahhk@...> wrote:




                        Dear Robert, Shin & friends,

                        This is an interesting point. Many of us have the idea that in order to
                        study dhamma, our lifestyle should be different, our accumulations should be
                        different and that being aware at the present moment means less thinking &
                        less planning.  As Robert says, this all shows the strong clinging to the
                        idea of self and the idea of control. It also shows the attachment to having
                        present dhammas changed to other dhammas instead of being aware and
                        understanding these realities as conditioned at the present moment.

                        The aim is therefore not to change, but to understand these conditioned
                        realities.'Live life entirely naturally' while developing undestanding means
                        life should be easier, not harder!

                        Right now, we're in Sydney between the surf at Bondi and a yoga class,
                        following our inclinations but not forgetting that realities are appearing
                        and can be known. Jonothan's en route to a home visit in Adelaide and I'll
                        be going straight back to work in Hong Kong. Lots of thinking and planning.
                        Sometimes we get lost in the world of concepts but sometimes there is
                        awareness of thinking as a nama different from the concepts the thinking
                        thinks about.

                        Thanks Robert for the update on yr visit. Keep posting! Enjoy the rest of
                        the stay and we look f/w to hearing the discussions on tape.

                        best wishes, Sarah


                        >I talked with shin and Kwan on the way home about making plans. Khun shin
                        wondered if making plans showed lack of understanding. But we can make plans
                        and at the same time have awareness of dhammas. Trying to stop making plans
                        may be an indication that one thinks they can control dhammas- one wants to
                        try to stay in the present moment , but without wisdom. However, if we
                        understand Dhamma more we will have less attachmment to our plans as we know
                        that the conditions for events to arise are so complex. I think in the
                        beginning we tend to think that we have to become different from what we
                        were before we studied Buddhism. That we have to make special conditions
                        before undersatnding arises. LaTER we see that understanding is not
                        dependent on living a special lifestyle and so we just live life entirely
                        naturally - as our accumulations lead us. But at the same time we listen and
                        consider and test Dhamma.
                        >
                        >
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                      • Robert Kirkpatrick
                        Dear Shin,It is surely not just you who has this misunderstanding. I would say it is chronic to the majority of Buddhsits. And even those who now understand
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 5, 2000
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                          Dear Shin,
                          It is surely not just you who has this misunderstanding. I would say it is chronic to the majority of Buddhsits. And even those who now understand used to have such ideas.
                          It is basically a barrier that we have to cross before correct understanding can really grow. It takes time, much contemplation and enormous patience and then gradually panna (wisdom) sees that there is no self. No one who can do anything. Then all dhammas, whether pleasant or unpleasant, akusala or kusala are seen as merely objects for understanding. Uncontrolabilty is accepted and life becomes easier because there is clearer distinction between concept and reality and acceptance of kamma/vipaka.This level is not advanced though ; it is clear understanding at the level of thinking. But if it is real understanding of anatta then it is a firm basis for direct understanding ( which takes much longer and even more patience)
                          Robert


                          Dear Friends,

                              You would not believe this. BUT during the last two dhamma talks, I have realized how much of "wanting to control" has been accumulated in me and yet it was so hard to realized it on our own. Without dhamma friends and dhamma talks, probably I would have completely be on the wrong path with  a wrong views that I am trying to get rid of self. " A self trying to get rid of SELF ". Studying dhamma with a right understanding can not be done only. Thanks a Aeon to Archan Sujin, K. Amara, K. Ivan, M. Betty, K. Robert, K.Lan, K. Elle, and the people who came to the English Dhamma Talks. Thankyou for your help and guidance.

                          with metta,

                          Shin


                          -----,



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                        • Bongkojpriya (Betty) Yugala
                          Dear Robert and Shin, First, Shin: How happy I was (kusala vipaka) to hear that you have gained increased understanding of the nature of self: that is panna
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 5, 2000
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                            Dear Robert and Shin,
                            First, Shin: How happy I was (kusala vipaka) to hear that you have gained increased understanding of the nature of self: that is panna rising. And that is what is so important and exciting about our discussions: they provide paccaya for panna to arise. See you on Saturday, at KY Nopparat's.
                             
                            Robert,
                            It was such a pleasure to meet you and even more, to learn from you. I realize more and more how valuable our discussions are. Each time that we become aware of the workings of the illusion of self, that sets the conditions for panna to arise.
                             
                            Have a safe trip back home and look forward to reading your ideas and observations at the site.
                             
                            With metta,
                            Betty
                             
                            PS: Who is the person who died and when is the funeral?
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 2:58 PM
                            Subject: Re: [DhammaStudyGroup] English discussions at DSSFB




                             






                            Dear Shin,

                            It is surely not just you who has this misunderstanding. I would say it is chronic to the majority of Buddhsits. And even those who now understand used to have such ideas.
                            It is basically a barrier that we have to cross before correct understanding can really grow. It takes time, much contemplation and enormous patience and then gradually panna (wisdom) sees that there is no self. No one who can do anything. Then all dhammas, whether pleasant or unpleasant, akusala or kusala are seen as merely objects for understanding. Uncontrolabilty is accepted and life becomes easier because there is clearer distinction between concept and reality and acceptance of kamma/vipaka.This level is not advanced though ; it is clear understanding at the level of thinking. But if it is real understanding of anatta then it is a firm basis for direct understanding ( which takes much longer and even more patience)
                            Robert


                            Dear Friends,

                                You would not believe this. BUT during the last two dhamma talks, I have realized how much of "wanting to control" has been accumulated in me and yet it was so hard to realized it on our own. Without dhamma friends and dhamma talks, probably I would have completely be on the wrong path with  a wrong views that I am trying to get rid of self. " A self trying to get rid of SELF ". Studying dhamma with a right understanding can not be done only. Thanks a Aeon to Archan Sujin, K. Amara, K. Ivan, M. Betty, K. Robert, K.Lan, K. Elle, and the people who came to the English Dhamma Talks. Thankyou for your help and guidance.

                            with metta,

                            Shin


                            -----,



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