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Re: [dsg] Rupas, Introduction, 3.

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  • upasaka@aol.com
    Hi, Nina - In a message dated 2/25/07 2:22:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... ==================== Hmm, that is interesting to me: This sounds like there are
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 25 12:10 PM
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      Hi, Nina -

      In a message dated 2/25/07 2:22:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      vangorko@... writes:

      > Rebirth-consciousness is the mental result of kamma, but at that
      > moment kamma also produces rúpas and kamma keeps on producing rúpas
      > throughout life; when it stops producing rúpas our life-span has
      > to end.
      ====================
      Hmm, that is interesting to me: This sounds like there are private
      "stocks" of rupas, associated with individual mindstreams, starting with rebirth
      consciousness until the end of that lifespan. But I thought that you good
      folks believe in external rupas, independent of conciousness, with the same rupa
      being observable by more than one "person"? This seems to suggest differently.
      Could you explain this, Nina?

      With metta,
      Howard

      /Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble
      in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a
      phantom, and a dream./            (From the Diamond Sutra)



      **************************************
      AOL now offers free email to everyone.
      Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Hi Howard, We cannot call this private stocks of rupas. From the first moment of life kamma produces bodysense, arising in a group of ten rupas. This rupa
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 27 2:59 AM
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        Hi Howard,
        We cannot call this private stocks of rupas. From the first moment of
        life kamma produces bodysense, arising in a group of ten rupas. This
        rupa arises and falls away, it is not a stock. So long as there are
        condiitons kamma produces this. The rupa that falls away is replaced
        by a new rupa.
        There are also rupas that are not of the body, but these are only
        produced by temperature. When someone has died, a corpse is left, and
        then temperature produces the rupas we call a corpse. The conditions
        of kamma, citta and nutrition do not operate anymore.
        For your other remark see my other post.
        Nina.

        Op 25-feb-2007, om 21:10 heeft upasaka@... het volgende geschreven:

        > Rebirth-consciousness is the mental result of kamma, but at that
        > > moment kamma also produces rúpas and kamma keeps on producing rúpas
        > > throughout life; when it stops producing rúpas our life-span has
        > > to end.
        > ====================
        > Hmm, that is interesting to me: This sounds like there are private
        > "stocks" of rupas, associated with individual mindstreams, starting
        > with rebirth
        > consciousness until the end of that lifespan. But I thought that
        > you good
        > folks believe in external rupas, independent of conciousness, with
        > the same rupa
        > being observable by more than one "person"? This seems to suggest
        > differently.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • upasaka@aol.com
        Hi, Nina - In a message dated 2/27/07 6:02:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... Howard: I know there is no stock. That is why I put private stock in quotes. I
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 27 5:34 AM
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          Hi, Nina -

          In a message dated 2/27/07 6:02:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,
          vangorko@... writes:

          > Hi Howard,
          > We cannot call this private stocks of rupas. From the first moment of
          > life kamma produces bodysense, arising in a group of ten rupas. This
          > rupa arises and falls away, it is not a stock. So long as there are
          > condiitons kamma produces this. The rupa that falls away is replaced
          > by a new rupa.

          ------------------------------------
          Howard:
          I know there is no stock. That is why I put "private stock" in quotes.
          I don't believe in "accumulations" either, not literally - just
          conditionality.
          ------------------------------------

          > There are also rupas that are not of the body, but these are only
          > produced by temperature. When someone has died, a corpse is left, and
          > then temperature produces the rupas we call a corpse. The conditions
          > of kamma, citta and nutrition do not operate anymore.
          > For your other remark see my other post.
          > Nina.
          >
          >
          ========================
          With metta,
          Howard

          /Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble
          in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a
          phantom, and a dream./            (From the Diamond Sutra)



          **************************************
          AOL now offers free email to everyone.
          Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nina van Gorkom
          Hi Howard, this is a short post. We can say: accumulations are a condition. You have skills in Mathematics, you learnt such skills. We all have accumulated
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 28 11:08 AM
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            Hi Howard,
            this is a short post.
            We can say: accumulations are a condition. You have skills in
            Mathematics, you learnt such skills. We all have accumulated
            different skills and talents. If they are not accumulated and carried
            on from moment to moment, where are they, how could they appear?
            Someone may have been taught by his parents to be generous, and so he
            accumulated generosity. This conditions the arising again of generosity.
            Nina.
            Op 27-feb-2007, om 14:34 heeft upasaka@... het volgende geschreven:

            > I know there is no stock. That is why I put "private stock" in quotes.
            > I don't believe in "accumulations" either, not literally - just
            > conditionality.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Herman Hofman
            Hi Nina, ... People s accumulations are stored in people s brains. My wife works in a brain injury program, and comes home daily with accounts of how
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 28 1:14 PM
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              Hi Nina,

              On 01/03/07, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
              > Hi Howard,
              > this is a short post.
              > We can say: accumulations are a condition. You have skills in
              > Mathematics, you learnt such skills. We all have accumulated
              > different skills and talents. If they are not accumulated and carried
              > on from moment to moment, where are they, how could they appear?

              People's accumulations are "stored" in people's brains. My wife works
              in a brain injury program, and comes home daily with accounts of how
              people's accumulations are altered and destroyed by various types of
              brain injury or disease.

              People's brains rely on oxygenated blood for healthy functioning. If a
              person has a stroke, or is unable to breathe air for some time, they
              can turn from a loving, caring partner, parent to a vegetable. This
              happens to hateful and uncaring people as well.


              Kind Regards



              Herman
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