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Re: [dsg] Re: Some Idle Thoughts on Nothing

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  • Herman Hofman
    Hi Scott, Thanks yet again for your efforts. ... I certainly do. If I might, could we possibly steer the discussion towards the Suttanta perspective? Which I
    Message 1 of 113 , Feb 1, 2007
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      Hi Scott,

      Thanks yet again for your efforts.


      On 02/02/07, Scott Duncan <scduncan@...> wrote:
      > Hi Herman,
      >
      > H: "Given the momentary nature of nama, and that nama is not the
      > object it experiences, on what basis can anything be said about the
      > im/permanence or otherwise of the object of nama?"
      >
      > SN22,52(10):
      >
      > "Bhikkhus, attend carefully to form. Recognize the impermanence of
      > form as it really is. When a bhikkhu attends carefully to form and
      > recognizes the impermanence of form as it really is, he experiences
      > revulsion for form...attend carefully to feeling...to perception...to
      > conditional formations...to consciousness..."
      >
      > I think on the above noted basis. I realise you are making a
      > technical point, I think, regarding the impermanence of 'naama' based
      > on the notion that citta cannot be 'aware of itself'. The Buddha
      > teaches above that it is possible to recognise the impermanence of all
      > conditioned phenomena.
      >
      > Do you wish to discuss the ways in which this occurs?
      >

      I certainly do. If I might, could we possibly steer the discussion
      towards the Suttanta perspective? Which I believe to be the gradual
      impermanence of form, not any momentary impermanence.

      Kind Regards



      Herman
    • TGrand458@aol.com
      Hi Howard In a message dated 2/21/2007 2:14:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, upasaka@aol.com writes: The Buddha describes the “death result” of an
      Message 113 of 113 , Feb 21, 2007
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        Hi Howard


        In a message dated 2/21/2007 2:14:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
        upasaka@... writes:

        The Buddha describes the “death result” of an enlightened (arahat) monk,
        > Ven.Dabba Mallaputta…
        > The body disintegrated, perception ceased,
        > All feelings became cool,
        > Mental activities were calmed,
        > And consciousness came to an end.

        -------------------------------------------
        Howard:
        Yes. Vedana cooled, sankhara calmed, sa~n~na in the sense of
        recognition defiled by reification ceased.
        -------------------------------------------

        TG: I don't know what to say to you when you ignore "consciousness came to
        an end." To me you're fudging the quote but you cant fudge the last line.
        Well, maybe you can. ;-) I guess you can just insert more provisos that
        don't exist in the quote. BTW, that's the same sort of thing we often complain
        about when others do it.

        Anyway, my reading is that all experience came to an end. If you want to
        think that "cool" or "calmed" mean something else in this context, then I'll
        let it be at that.




        > (The Buddha . . . The Udana &The Itivuttaka, pg. 116, 8.9)
        > TG
        >
        ====================
        With metta,
        Howard


        TG
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