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Re: [dsg] Re: Meditation (was shoulder biceps surgery0

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  • sarah abbott
    Dear Scott & all, Also, another late reply to some good quotes and comments in a discussion ... ..... S: All sounds good to me. The 2 or 3 phala cittas
    Message 1 of 68 , Feb 1, 2007
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      Dear Scott & all,

      Also, another late reply to some good quotes and comments in a discussion
      with Swee Boon:

      --- Scott Duncan <scduncan@...> wrote:
      > Again, as I understand it, lokuttara cittas have nibbaana as object
      > (hence are not 'lokiyaa'). Regarding magga and phala cittas I think
      > these are javana cittas which occur in one process of javana. I'm not
      > sure, and stand for correction, but I think that only these cittas
      > condition eradication whereas mundane, say with jhaana, only suppress
      > defilements.
      .....
      S: All sounds good to me.

      The 2 or 3 phala cittas (fruition consciousness) are lokuttara
      vipaka-cittas which immediately follow the magga citta in the same
      process, unlike other vipaka cittas. Also, unlike other vipaka cittas, as
      you say, they perform the function of javana. It is just the magga cittas
      which eradicate defilements.
      ....
      <....> More good quotes on lokiya and lokuttara trimmed reluctantly...
      ...
      > And, commenting on Dhammasa"nga.ni 277, "Thoughts engaged on the
      > Higher Ideal (lokuttara.m citta.m - with relevance to jhaana):
      >
      > "...'He cultivates [bhaaveti*] the Jhaana' means he evolves, produces,
      > develops the ecstatic Jhaana of one momentary flash of consciousness.
      ....
      S: And here we come back to bhaavanaa and bhaaveti as just referred to as
      in 'vipassana bhavana' (translated as insight meditation). Bhaaveti is the
      verb, as in 'he develops/meditates....'As your further note adds:
      'Regarding 'bhaaveti': "Develops means to beget, produce, increase. This
      is the meaning of bhaavanaa here." '(Atthasalini, p.217)

      So again, what is meant by 'he cultivates (bhaaveti) the Jhaana' in this
      context of lokuttara (transcendental)above?
      ...
      > Because it goes forth from the world, from the round of rebirths, this
      > Jhaana is called 'going out.' Or, a person goes forth by means of it,
      > hence it is called 'going out.' The person who is endowed with that,
      > comprehending (the Fact of) Ill goes forth, abandoning the cause (of
      > Ill) goes forth, realising the (fact of ) cessation goes forth,
      > evolving the Path goes forth..."
      ....
      S: In other words, as you quote, the 'cultivates the jhaana' here refers
      to the lokuttara cittas which 'go forth' from samsara, from the lokiya
      (mundane) world.

      Thanks again for all these helpful passages.

      Metta,

      Sarah
      =======
    • sarah abbott
      Dear Scott & all, Also, another late reply to some good quotes and comments in a discussion ... ..... S: All sounds good to me. The 2 or 3 phala cittas
      Message 68 of 68 , Feb 1, 2007
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        Dear Scott & all,

        Also, another late reply to some good quotes and comments in a discussion
        with Swee Boon:

        --- Scott Duncan <scduncan@...> wrote:
        > Again, as I understand it, lokuttara cittas have nibbaana as object
        > (hence are not 'lokiyaa'). Regarding magga and phala cittas I think
        > these are javana cittas which occur in one process of javana. I'm not
        > sure, and stand for correction, but I think that only these cittas
        > condition eradication whereas mundane, say with jhaana, only suppress
        > defilements.
        .....
        S: All sounds good to me.

        The 2 or 3 phala cittas (fruition consciousness) are lokuttara
        vipaka-cittas which immediately follow the magga citta in the same
        process, unlike other vipaka cittas. Also, unlike other vipaka cittas, as
        you say, they perform the function of javana. It is just the magga cittas
        which eradicate defilements.
        ....
        <....> More good quotes on lokiya and lokuttara trimmed reluctantly...
        ...
        > And, commenting on Dhammasa"nga.ni 277, "Thoughts engaged on the
        > Higher Ideal (lokuttara.m citta.m - with relevance to jhaana):
        >
        > "...'He cultivates [bhaaveti*] the Jhaana' means he evolves, produces,
        > develops the ecstatic Jhaana of one momentary flash of consciousness.
        ....
        S: And here we come back to bhaavanaa and bhaaveti as just referred to as
        in 'vipassana bhavana' (translated as insight meditation). Bhaaveti is the
        verb, as in 'he develops/meditates....'As your further note adds:
        'Regarding 'bhaaveti': "Develops means to beget, produce, increase. This
        is the meaning of bhaavanaa here." '(Atthasalini, p.217)

        So again, what is meant by 'he cultivates (bhaaveti) the Jhaana' in this
        context of lokuttara (transcendental)above?
        ...
        > Because it goes forth from the world, from the round of rebirths, this
        > Jhaana is called 'going out.' Or, a person goes forth by means of it,
        > hence it is called 'going out.' The person who is endowed with that,
        > comprehending (the Fact of) Ill goes forth, abandoning the cause (of
        > Ill) goes forth, realising the (fact of ) cessation goes forth,
        > evolving the Path goes forth..."
        ....
        S: In other words, as you quote, the 'cultivates the jhaana' here refers
        to the lokuttara cittas which 'go forth' from samsara, from the lokiya
        (mundane) world.

        Thanks again for all these helpful passages.

        Metta,

        Sarah
        =======
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