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Re: [dsg] Re: The Emptiness Awareness-Release

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  • sarah abbott
    Hi Swee Boon & all, ... ... S: Yes and I think the passage that you pointed to in MN18 starting with eye, form, consciousness and then it being possible to
    Message 1 of 33 , Oct 31, 2006
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      Hi Swee Boon & all,

      --- nidive <nidive@...> wrote:

      > I thought the expression "delineate a delineation of X" can also be
      > used to express the co-arising/co-dependence of citta and cetasikas.
      ...
      S: Yes and I think the passage that you pointed to in MN18 starting with
      eye, form, consciousness and then it being possible to 'delineate' or
      point to the contact, also (according to a commentary note BB adds)"is
      intended to show the entire round of existence (va.t.ta) by way of the
      twelves sense bases (ayatanas)....
      ....
      >
      > Something that can be "delineated" is something which is "dependently
      > come into being".
      ...
      S: I'm not sure it doesn't just mean to express or make clear rather than
      having a particular meaning of its own? For example, I believe you also
      referred to the same phrase in DN15, Mahanidana Sutta:

      (Walshe transl):
      "In what ways, Ananda, do people explain the nature of the self?...etc"
      ....

      > Therefore, if for example X is contact, then "a delineation of
      > contact" means that contact is something that is "dependently come
      > into being".
      .....
      S: Or it just means a pointing to or explanation of contact which wouldn't
      be possible if there were no contact....
      ....
      >
      > Then what does the "delineate" that comes before "a delineation of X"
      > mean? I think it means "cognize". Citta is what that cognizes and it
      > is also something that is "dependently come into being"
      ....
      S: Maybe it just means 'points to' or 'describes' (with wisdom) the
      characteristic of X.....
      ...
      >
      > Therefore, the expression "it is possible that one will delineate a
      > delineation of X" is a succinct way of describing the co-arising/co-
      > dependence nature of samsara.
      >
      > And the expression "it is impossible that one will delineate a
      > delineation of X" is a succinct way of describing the non co-arising/
      > non co-dependence nature of nibbana.
      ....
      S: Well, yes, I almost agree:-). If it weren't for the
      co-arising/co-dependence of factors, it would be impossible to point to or
      delineate them. But, because they are realities/ because they arise in
      such a way, it is possible to express such detail about them...

      Apologies for the delay in responding to some of your posts addressed to
      me, Swee Boon. I always have to consider and look at the texts in question
      first and tend to put this off....

      Thanks again for your helpful posts and discussion on this topic.

      Metta,

      Sarah
      =======
    • sarah abbott
      Hi Swee Boon & all, ... ... S: Yes and I think the passage that you pointed to in MN18 starting with eye, form, consciousness and then it being possible to
      Message 33 of 33 , Oct 31, 2006
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        Hi Swee Boon & all,

        --- nidive <nidive@...> wrote:

        > I thought the expression "delineate a delineation of X" can also be
        > used to express the co-arising/co-dependence of citta and cetasikas.
        ...
        S: Yes and I think the passage that you pointed to in MN18 starting with
        eye, form, consciousness and then it being possible to 'delineate' or
        point to the contact, also (according to a commentary note BB adds)"is
        intended to show the entire round of existence (va.t.ta) by way of the
        twelves sense bases (ayatanas)....
        ....
        >
        > Something that can be "delineated" is something which is "dependently
        > come into being".
        ...
        S: I'm not sure it doesn't just mean to express or make clear rather than
        having a particular meaning of its own? For example, I believe you also
        referred to the same phrase in DN15, Mahanidana Sutta:

        (Walshe transl):
        "In what ways, Ananda, do people explain the nature of the self?...etc"
        ....

        > Therefore, if for example X is contact, then "a delineation of
        > contact" means that contact is something that is "dependently come
        > into being".
        .....
        S: Or it just means a pointing to or explanation of contact which wouldn't
        be possible if there were no contact....
        ....
        >
        > Then what does the "delineate" that comes before "a delineation of X"
        > mean? I think it means "cognize". Citta is what that cognizes and it
        > is also something that is "dependently come into being"
        ....
        S: Maybe it just means 'points to' or 'describes' (with wisdom) the
        characteristic of X.....
        ...
        >
        > Therefore, the expression "it is possible that one will delineate a
        > delineation of X" is a succinct way of describing the co-arising/co-
        > dependence nature of samsara.
        >
        > And the expression "it is impossible that one will delineate a
        > delineation of X" is a succinct way of describing the non co-arising/
        > non co-dependence nature of nibbana.
        ....
        S: Well, yes, I almost agree:-). If it weren't for the
        co-arising/co-dependence of factors, it would be impossible to point to or
        delineate them. But, because they are realities/ because they arise in
        such a way, it is possible to express such detail about them...

        Apologies for the delay in responding to some of your posts addressed to
        me, Swee Boon. I always have to consider and look at the texts in question
        first and tend to put this off....

        Thanks again for your helpful posts and discussion on this topic.

        Metta,

        Sarah
        =======
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