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Re: The place of "meditation" ... Viharati (corrected)

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  • Tep Sastri
    Hi, Matheesha - Thank you for leaving me with something to ponder. ... deeper the one-pointedness, it seems to tolerate only certain types of agitations of
    Message 1 of 151 , Mar 1 3:16 PM
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      Hi, Matheesha -

      Thank you for leaving me with something to ponder.

      >M:
      >1. Concentrating develops samadhi. The deeper the samadhi, the
      deeper the one-pointedness, it seems to 'tolerate' only certain
      types of agitations of the mind. vitakka and vichara are tolerated in the
      first jhana, but in the second they are ejected and only piti
      suka is tolerated.
      >2. There is mention in the suttas of someone thinking 'this vitakka
      vicara is an agitation, what if I abide without it (or words to that
      effect). This another way of doing it, but one must have trained well in
      adhi-citta to do such things.
      >3. It it is possible to have all the factors of a jhaana outside of jhana.
      But if the 5 hindrences are still arising, then it is not a jhana.
      >4. It might be better to think of jhana as a state where many factors are
      absent (hence deep calm), rather than a state where something is
      present.

      Tep: I like 1., 2. and 3. Can you explain your reasoning for 4. ? Thanks.


      Warm regards,


      Tep

      ==========
      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "matheesha"
      <dhammachat@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi my friend Tep,
      >
      (snipped).
      >
      > I think it is important to note that just because there is flour,
      > eggs, sugar etc this does not automatically make it a cake. IT must
      > all be processed and baked together for a good period of time. It it
      > is possible to have all the factors of a jhaana outside of jhana. But
      > if the 5 hindrences are still arising, then it is not a jhana. If
      > there is no adequate samadhi it is not a jhana. It might be better to
      > think of jhana as a state where many factors are absent (hence deep
      > calm), rather than a state where something is present.
      >
      > metta
      >
      > Matheesha
      >
    • Herman Hofman
      Hey Jon and Eric, ... Always nice to see the physical sciences putting in an appearance. I would say that the lighting of the match is initiated by the
      Message 151 of 151 , Jun 4, 2006
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        Hey Jon and Eric,


        > Hey, are you trying me on, Eric? ;-)) Because I think you're the one
        > who has it backwards!! Whenever there is fire, there is heat. But we
        > cannot say whenever there is heat there is fire.
        >
        > (Is it true to say that heat is a necessary condition for fire? I'm not
        > sure about that; when a fire is started by striking a match against the
        > appropriate substance, the fire is produced by a chemical reaction
        > rather than by the generation of heat.)


        Always nice to see the physical sciences putting in an appearance. I would
        say that the lighting of the match is initiated by the friction of striking
        the match against the side of the matchbox, and that friction translates
        into heat, which precipitates the chemical reaction.

        Kind Regards


        Herman


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