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Re: [dsg] clinging to concepts

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  • upasaka@aol.com
    Hi, TG (and Larry) - In a message dated 2/1/06 11:42:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... ======================= I do understand your point, TG, and I see
    Message 1 of 90 , Feb 1, 2006
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      Hi, TG (and Larry) -

      In a message dated 2/1/06 11:42:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      TGrand458@... writes:

      > Hi Howard and Larry
      >
      > I would say that a parched man in the desert craves the end of thirst and
      > the end of fear of death as 1st and 2nd priorities respectively. This type
      > of
      > craving is more on the side of aversion. What he craves is the end of the
      > discomfort. Discomfort does exist. Any fantasy of a desert oasis is
      > merely an
      > attempt to escape the suffering. The root of the craving is a real state.
      >
      >
      > That would be my take.
      >
      > TG
      >
      =======================
      I do understand your point, TG, and I see validity in it. On the other
      hand, I don't believe our desert friend is merely thinking about that oasis
      and picturing getting there and drinking the water. He *wants* to get there, he
      *wants* to see the cool water, he *wants* to put his hands into it, to cup
      them, and to gulp down that water, soothing his parched throat and ending his
      thirst. It's not just that last that he craves. It is a whole scenario.
      And even if it were just the quenching of the thirst that he wanted,
      that quenching is not in existence, but only the idea of it is, and thus it is
      *still* not an existing paramattha dhamma that is the object of craving or
      attachment, but the thought of such. In fact, all craving and attachment is a
      craving for something nonexistent and an attachment to an idea!
      Language confuses things at times. If I say I want something, that
      says something about my current thought and emotive processes. It often doesn't
      say that there *is* such a thing and that I want it. If I want to go on a trip
      to Italy, what is the object that I want? There is no such thing as a "trip to
      Italy" as a paramattha dhamma, and certainly none that currently exists here
      and now. When I want to go on a trip to Italy, I am engaging in a process of
      thought and emotion. That's the whole story.

      With metta,
      Howard

      /Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble
      in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a
      phantom, and a dream./            (From the Diamond Sutra)


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Charles
      Hi Jon, ... unending ... Thanks, I do have learn many things because I have to read many things too to be able to respond to your statements :D, also by
      Message 90 of 90 , Feb 18, 2006
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        Hi Jon,

        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Jonothan Abbott <jonabbott@.
        ..> wrote:
        > No problem, Charles. I too was beginning to feel a sense of '
        unending'
        > about our discussion ;-))

        Thanks, I do have learn many things because I have to read many
        things too to be able to respond to your statements :D, also by
        reading your opinions which give different perspective to me. But I
        think having a discussion too long might make me drown in my own view
        :P. Need to refresh... :D

        > However, since a number of points you raise are important ones, I
        may
        > come back on them if I have time (life has become a lot busier
        since we
        > returned to Bangkok). But if I do, please do not feel you need to
        respond.

        Doesn't we always talk about the same thing, but with slightly
        different words maybe :D.
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