Re: [dsg] Re: upadana khandhas
- Dear Steve, Nina & all,
S: I just wrote the following and would like to add more again:)
>S:To add a little more on this from Sammohavinodanii, (PTS, Class. OfAggregates, 132f):
As to the distinction: [that is] as to the distinction between
aggregates (khandha) and aggregates [as objects] of clinging
(upaadaanakkhandha). But what is the distinction between them?
Aggregates in the first place is said without distinction; but
aggregates [as objects] of clinging [is said] distinguishing those which
are subject to cankers and are to be clung to
(saasava-upaadaaniiya-bhaavena), according as it is said.... (quote from
>>Steve: Page 580 of the Dhammasa.nga.ni (U Kyaw Khine translation) has:....
> What are the dhammaa which are objects of aasavas (saasava.m): There
> are meritorious, demeritorious and neither-meritorious-nor-
> demeritorious dhammaa of the sensuous sphere, the fine material
> sphere and the Non-material sphere which are the aggregate of
> corporeality, feeling, perception and the aggregate of consciousness.
> These are the dhammaa which are objects of aasavas
> Katame dhammaa saasavaa? Kusalaakusalaabyaakataa dhammaa
> kaamaavacaraa, ruupaavacaraa, aruupaavacaraa; ruupakkhandho pe
> ime dhammaa saasavaa.
S: I was just quoting from the Atthasaalinii (PTS, Expositor) for another
thread and came across the following in Triplets in the Maatikiaa, which
I think is helpful too:
In the triplet of Grasped and favourable to grasping, grasped means-
seized-as-effect by a kamma, attended by craving and wrong view in the act
of sensing or thinking of an object. Upaadaaniyaa means favourable to
grasping because of the connection with grasping *by having become
objects*. The term is applied to objects of grasping.
Effects grasped and favourable to grasping (upaadinnupaadaaniyaa) is a
name given to material and mental states born of kamma attended by the
intoxicants (aasavas). In this way, but in the negative sense, the
meaning of the remaining two terms should be understood.
Upaadinnupaadaaniyattike aaramma.nakara.navasena ta.nhaadiihi upetena
kammunaa aaci.n.naa phalabhaavena gahitaa ti upaadinnaa.
*Aaramma.nabhaava.m upagantvaa* upaadaanasambhanena upaadaanaana.m hitaa
ti upaadaaniyaa. Upaadaanassa aaramma.napaccayabhuutaana.m eta.m
Upaadinnaa ca te upaadaaniyaa ca upaadinnupaadaaniyaa.
Saasavakammanibbattaana.m ruupaaruupadhammaanam eta.m adhivacana.m.
Iminaa nayena sesapadadvayena pa.tisedhasahito attho veditabbo.
>S: From the commentary note which B.Bodhi quotes on p.1059 of SN:Spk:...With taints (saasava) means: what becomes a condition for the
taints by way of object; so too that can be clung to (upaadaaniya) means
what becomes a condition for clinging [Spk-p.t: by being made its object].
Among the aggregates subject to clinging, stated by way of the practice of
insight, the form aggregate is sense sphere, the others pertain to the
three planes (i.e, excluding only the supramundane.)<
***p.s sorry to others for so much Pali I know Steve and Nina find it
helpful in this tricky context! I hope those who prefer to ignore it, did
- Hi Sarah,
Thanks for the replies. I don't really have much more to add to the
thread at the moment as I feel I would be just be repeating my
previous comments. Though I will quote B. Bodhi in response to the
question K. Sujin raised twice in the passages you quoted:
"How can the panca khandha which are not the object of clinging be
Because upadana khandha does not mean khandhas are "accompanied by
taints and by clinging" but "capable of being taken as objects of the
taints and of clinging"
Looking forward to listening to the recordings.